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grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| reply to marigolds
Re: [MO] Springfield
ptweasel: Was there a specific time frame this happened? My problem seems to manifest dominantly after 8pm.
I'm grasping for straws, looking for patterns, trying to get some type of information that can be used to combat this.
Thanks in advance! | |
Techy1
join:2004-01-23
Springfield, MO
| I am a tech in the Springfield system. I just came across your postings here, and was interested in your problem. Remember, I am speaking about a problem sight unseen so there may be other problems I don't know about. I can say though that some of the replies I have read are incorrect. One of them says something about internet traffic being so much greater after a certain time and this is causing a slow down. Theoretically, this is possible but highly unlikely. That is to say, that type of slow down is miniscule if the cable modem is functioning properly. If your having packet loss and abnormally slow speeds, there are a few things in my experience that can do this. I know these things will sound far out to you, but I assure you these things happen and will cause just the problem you describe. In order, #1. Voltage feed back somewhere on your electrical system. If you have a "Hot Chassis" on any appliance in your house it can feed back to ground on your cable. It can be anything, even your computer or monitor or printer or even the freezer in your basement. In a few cases I have found the power neutral to the house has become loose or corroded. Usually though it's something simple like an ungrounded electric outlet or reverse polarity. If you have that nifty little ground lug cut off of your power strip behind the computer, this is usually the culprit. Aside from being hard on sensitive equipment like Cable modems and computers, the electricity flowing back to ground through the cable changes the impedence of the cable and it eventually chokes out the signal for the upstream on your modem. This is why your transmit level is maxed out and the modem can't comunicate any longer. This also happens slowly, when you or a service tech disconnects the cable from the modem or outside the voltage goes to zero because it is no longer grounded. When it is connected back up, the voltage slowly changes the impedance again until it gets to a certain point that the modem can't over come it and the problem returns. This makes sense in another way with regards to the time it happens, like in the evenings when you and everybody else is home. Appliances and such that are not on during the day, i.e. Little Johnnies T.V. in his room may not be causing any problems until they are switched on. I have solved this kind of problem many, many, times by simply checking for voltage feed back, and from what I've read of your postings this sounds just like the culprit. #2. A program on your system is causing it. Antivirus,Peer to Peer programs like kaazza or bearshare or napster, firewalls, or even a program you don't have anymore and still has settings hidden in your registry. I can't tell you how many times just shutting down these programs has solved the problem. Happens all the time and people are usually stunned when you just click a couple of buttons and the speed returns. I will admit though this doesn't sound like your problem because it is not happening all the time. If you are using a peer to peer though, make sure you have the option to "act as a supernode" disabled. This can cause problems because you are acting as a node point for perhaps thousands of different users and hence dramatic slow down. #3. This is the final thing and highly, I repeat highly unlikely but has happend a couple of times to me so can't dissmis it. Every once in a while you can get a bad IP address issued to you from our system. If all else, and I mean every other thing checks out or has been tried I will atempt to get a new IP address registered to the account, though this has only been a succesfull fix a couple of times in the entire time cable modems have been availiable in our area. Ok, that about covers it, hope this helps you. All things being equal, I would just about bet #1 is your problem, but I've been wrong before and without knowing your specific situation it's difficult to know for sure. Good Luck. | |
marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by Techy1  :
I can say though that some of the replies I have read are incorrect. One of them says something about internet traffic being so much greater after a certain time and this is causing a slow down. Theoretically, this is possible but highly unlikely. That is to say, that type of slow down is miniscule if the cable modem is functioning properly.
I was only refering to the peculiar timing of his issues (only after 8 pm). Such timing issues may look bizarre at first, but can end up being noticable at those hours because of peak local node traffic at those hours. The peak internet traffic itself does not actually cause the problems (unless you were in one of the cities that had 1200 homes passed per node). Also, some more bizarre transient problems that normally involve people doing abusive things (i.e. cable theft) tend to pop up during peak hours. While it is unlikely that this was such a case, often times the hardest problems to crack are actually being caused by someone else.
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grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| reply to Techy1
I don't think it's traffic related either, unless it has to do with traffic across my equipment internally going out. For that to be viable (outbound load related) there's either a bad component, or something creating a problem (like ac voltage into the line). The traffic would only make it worse, not the source cause.
For idea #1.
The voltage idea has been discussed. If its voltage related, I feel that it's from outside this house. One reason is because I checked the polarity and grounds on every outlet inside the house when we first moved in. (Don't remember checking garage and external). I was surprised to see that they all operated correctly. Wiring can deteriorate, and I've not rechecked them lately but I think I might. Also, I'd never cut a ground plug off of anything nor use equipment where it was removed or damaged. Anyone with a little electrical knowledge knows it's just a bad idea. 
I'm pretty aware of all the equipment in our house and its condition. I'm also pretty aware of what is on when. My kids are 5, 4, and 18 months. There's no electronic device that would produce significant RF or plugs into an electrical outlet in their bedroom (aside from a clock) and quite often while this problem happens while they are asleep. The only other people in the house are my wife and I. My wife may use the TV, and that's about it. The problem seems to be completely independent of weather any device is operating or not inside our household.
This seems to only happen after 8 pm. Fewer devices in our house are used during these hours. The only "new" devices on after 8pm would be my Xbox, or my PS2. And this problem has happened regardless of those being on or off.
For idea #2
I've changed PC's during the time this problem has happened (almost 2 years now intermittently), and any scheduled software that runs does so on a very regular basis. The problems with the drops are random as is the severity.
Just an example:
Friday night, clean line, no drops, no problem.
Thursday night, bad drops and eventually circuit went down completely.
Wednesday night, drops every 35 to 45 minutes. It eventually quit about 11pm.
Tuesday night, very bad and frequent drops, eventually completely stops working.
Monday, clean line no problems.
Any application or process that I know of on this PC runs the same regardless of day. And even if that weren't true, it doesn't explain the couple months where I had very few problems, and no new software has been installed. I load up what I need at set up for the most part.
I don't use P2P programs and none have ever been installed on this PC. There had been some on the old PC, but it took a very short period of time for me to become disenchanted with them. Way too many reasons to not use most of the programs out there, it isn't worth the hassle.
I will say one thing, Norton anti virus often likes to run about 8pm. Interesting, no? But, again, why no problem last night then?
For reason #3
I've had this happen. But if I remember correctly, shouldn't power cycling the modem and the router cause the IP to change? Once the modem is disconnected and there's no signal to or from it, doesn't that IP go back into the pool? And let’s say once reconnected it DOES reassign me the same IP. How many times in a row is this possible? The other night I unplugged it at least six times hoping that at some point it might train back up.
I was told once that my IP was being used by another device on the network, and I think once was told another device was using the same MAC address. But that's been at least a year ago now.
I think scenario #1 is possible, but only from voltage feedback by another device on the same cable segment that I am on. Maybe we've developed a problem with the grounding in our house, but that seems iffy. The cycle you describe with the voltage ramping up and the connection being dropped sounds similar to the way the problem manifests. But, the signal isn’t maxed out that I know of. The modem simply quits communicating with the outside network. The old surfboard (rented device) used to just sit there and endlessly power cycle, not just retrain but completely shut itself off and on.
This happened one time while I was on the phone with a service rep and he told me that he could still see the modem, and there was nothing wrong with it. When I told him that I thought that was pretty unlikely because every light on the device was off, he put me on hold for a while. 5 to 10 minutes later he comes back and says "well, it looks like you're having some problems. The modem is power cycling, but we don't see a reason why. Voltage is good. Signal strength is good. Everything looks fine from this end."
I'm no tech, never gonna be. But above are my observations and reason (faulty as they may be) for my thoughts on the subject. My suspicion is that it's a problem some place outside my residence, and maybe even the result of a couple problems combined. I've got no way to prove it, and even less technical expertise to even make such assertions in the first place. But these are my thoughts and what I've observed.
Any additional thoughts? I really appreciate everyone trying to help. It's good to hear the situations you've encountered in the past. It's helpful to know what can happen and why.
As of last night I've seen NO down time or disconnects. I had nearly 100 packet loss at one point, but it was fairly brief and I've not seen it since then.
I think weather may make the problem worse. It wasn't that cold last night, not like some previous nights this week. But Mrs. Woods said that she had a tech scheduled to come out and do a full sweep of the lines yesterday. Maybe something was found and fixed? Maybe not. Regardless, it was really good to be back on line last night. I love uptime. | |
grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| reply to marigolds
said by "marigolds":
... The peak internet traffic itself does not actually cause the problems...Also, some more bizarre transient problems that normally involve people doing abusive things (i.e. cable theft) tend to pop up during peak hours. While it is unlikely that this was such a case, often times the hardest problems to crack are actually being caused by someone else.
I do think it's something external to my house. Again, I've got no solid technical nor provable reason for this. | |
grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| One thing to note: My join date. Know why I joined in January 2003? Constant connection problems.
I think we finally fixed that problem with a modem swap.
Strikes me as moderately ironic. | |
Techy1
join:2004-01-23
Springfield, MO
| reply to grfxgawd
Hopefully your problem was fixed, and even if it wasn't, you could very well be right about it being something outside your house. I know us techs try very hard to solve problems, but once in a while there are problems that are pretty hard to track down. Regardless I know it is very frustrating and I appreciate your patience with us. Couple of things I'd like to mention here. First, if you know how to get into the modem's interface, check the transmit level. If it is above 55dbmv it is too high. The modem only puts out 60dbmv and that is what I meant about being maxed out. There is some attenuation of the cable during tempature changes and if there is not a little play left to the modem to compensate it will shut down and power cycle until it can get through. Secondly, concerning the voltage issue, polarity is just one thing to check. We have little pen sized voltage detectors that will detect voltage by just passing it around equipment or wires. If you can either have us come out with one or get one yourself(pretty cheap), that is what needs to be checked. The best way to do this is to unhook all cable outlets outside the house and check each one individually for voltage. You can also do this with a VOM, but pen detector is easiest. Ok, I've beat that dead horse enough,lol. As for the IP thing, yes they are technicly dynamic, but in reality they never change. You can see this for yourself by just looking at it, then wait a month or more and look at it again. I practically guarrenty it will be the same one. And you can unplug the thing a thousand times, same result. Lastly, I will talk with Terry about this and if your problem is not fixed I'll look into it myself. | |
grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| I'm interested in the pen sized gadget thing. I have a hand held digital multimeter that looks like a logic probe (it's an Archer product, I used to work for Radio Shack, go figure). This does not sound like what you are describing.
What you are describing almost sounds more like an EMF meter. But last time I checked those aren't cheap. Do you have a web page you could point me to or a product name? The device I've used is a simple LED styled multimeter that shows if polarity and ground are "correct".
The best that I know there is no way to access the modems interface, at least from this side. I don't even know of a way I could telnet to it. It's a Toshiba PCX2600 (Yes, I was advised to NOT buy one, but I was feeling really contrary that day, and the surfboard I bought to replace the rental wouldn't train up. Decided I might have some better luck doing the opposite of what I was told... The Tosh' trained up immediately, and I got a 9kbps upstream boost for my effort.)
Beat the horse till it's dust if it pleases you. I'm learning and my line is working - two things that make me happy.
I'll come back tomorrow when I'm a bit more rested and review what you all have posted to try and absorb more of it.
It's 11:30PM, I just got all three kids to bed. They loved the circus. But now it's time for me to unwind a while. Daddy gonna go kick some mob backside in EQOA:F. I love it when my connections up! | |
Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA | Mind if I ask what reason you was given against the Toshiba PCX2600? I ask because I have a 2200 and it's been good to me, and I hope it continues to do so. lol. | |
grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| reply to grfxgawd
Okay, I lied - I can't leave well enough alone and go play my game...
I went back to the monitor setup and changed the IP from 12.218.139.106 to 12.218.129.106.
Oh, I pity the poor sap at 12.218.139.106 - They are averaging about 30% packet loss for the last 24hour period. It's not my place to say so, but, uh, someone might want to take a peek at that customers file...
Best I can tell, my limited knowledge and tools, looks like this connection has been stable and clean for 24hours.
I'm going to go celebrate with a good couple hours of gaming. | |
grfxgawd
join:2003-01-28
Springfield, MO
| reply to Turbocpe
said by Turbocpe :
Mind if I ask what reason you was given against the Toshiba PCX2600? I ask because I have a 2200 and it's been good to me, and I hope it continues to do so. lol.
Got a friend that lives in Branson (doesn't have Mediacom down there) and has the 2200 and he loves it.
Before I got really angry and was just pretty mad I was asking techs what they would recommend (since I thought the rental surfboard had gone bad a second time). Hands down winner was a new surfboard.
Now, everyone gets their own ideas about things regardless of facts (like mine I've posted here) and tech support people are no different. You help people, you see patterns, you get experiences, you form opinions. Opinion and experience of these people was that Toshiba's were problematic. What my not so happy mind was hearing was "buy something that will accept a poor quality signal, you'll have better luck". Now admittedly, that's not very darn nice, but I'm being bluntly honest.
*warning! this really isn't a shamelss plug!* Zip back a few months ago. I run a gaming community. The guy that helped me get the effort going was having some serious problems with his service provider (in OH). I was also writing some articles on Ghost Recon: Island Thunder Xbox for gamingtarget.com (Matt Swider is one heck of a guy, he runs the site).
I spent two months researching what makes a good gaming connection. Hands down winner among Xbox customer service people? Toshiba PCX 2200 or 2600.
I did some looking, checked some comparisons and decided it might be a decent box.
Anyhow, like I said, I was having not so happy thoughts. The previous brand new surboard flopped out of the box, and I decided I'd give it a go "my way".
I like it. Got a 9kbps boost immediately, and it's been pretty wonderful so far. That said, who knows, maybe it's the real source of all my recent trouble? And even if it's not now, whose to say in a few months I won't be pulling a Jimi Hendrix on it in the driveway? I guess that's one that time will decide for us.
Anyhow... I sure hope DSLreports.com doesn't start charging me by the character. | |
Techy1
join:2004-01-23
Springfield, MO
| reply to grfxgawd
Here's the the first one of those detectors I was talking about »www.lowes.com/lkn?action=product···VD-504AD Just the first one I came across, may be able to get them cheaper somewhere. And I looked up your modem on toshiba's site, and they don't have an internal interface that I could find, so that won't work for you unfortunatly. It would certainly help if you could determine the upstream power level when it's having problems though. We have equipment to test it, but unless we are there when it's happening it's a moot point. | |
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