nhjones
join:2002-09-12
Dayton, OH
| Let's Show How High Taxes Are
While I don't think SBC should tack on an extra charge for the USF, I do think it is helpful that SBC and other businesses show the cost of USF and other taxes so people understand that SBC is paying that much in taxes. I know this is not always practical, but I wish that all businesses could show the amount they pay in taxes so that people start to understand that sometimes half of what they pay for something actually goes to taxes. High taxes are a major reason for high prices, but most people don't understand that because they don't see the tax amounts broken out -- they just think that businesses are greedy (which some are, but the government is greedy too with high taxes).
Also, is it just a coincidence that we file our tax returns on April 15th, and then vote in early November, which is as far away from the tax day as possible in the calendar year? People might vote very differently if they voted right after they filed their taxes!!!! |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
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| No, don't agree.
A business is subjet to loads of taxes, and the ones that apply to business INPUTS do not get broken out for the benefit of the customer. To follow your example, our bills should show a myriad of "add-ons" for payroll tax, state, city and local tax, property tax, and so on.
If SBC want to show that the government has yet another fee for their specific industry, put it in a footnote at the bottom of the bill:
We would like to point out that your bill would be a few bucks less if the FCC did not charge USF
Anything else is misleading. |
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lvas
join:2001-05-17
Glen Carbon, IL
| reply to nhjones
its pretty simple people - if you don't like the taxes & fees imposed upon you by the FCC or PUC of your state - you need to talk to them - not SBC.
WHy should SBC include those fees as part of there price of the service - you all make no sense at all. when you go into stores to BUY anything - do you see the taxs included into the price?? no you do not - you don't see those until you get your bill at the checkout line.;)
The Universal Service Fund charge is a surcharge collected from telecommunications carriers such as Verizon or SBC to support the federal Universal Service Fund. The Fund ensures that schools, libraries, rural hospitals, and other individuals have access to affordable telecommunications service. All communications providers must contribute to the fund based on revenue incurred during the previous year. Most carriers recover their Universal Service Fund charges from their customers in some form. The fee passed through to you depends on the fee assessed to SBC and is along with the services you have ordered. For additional information about this charge, contact the FCC at www.FCC.gov or call them at 1-888-225-5322 |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
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| said by lvas  :
its pretty simple people - if you don't like the taxes & fees imposed upon you by the FCC or PUC of your state - you need to talk to them - not SBC.
WHy should SBC include those fees as part of there price of the service - you all make no sense at all. when you go into stores to BUY anything - do you see the taxs included into the price?? no you do not - you don't see those until you get your bill at the checkout line.;
The USF is not a tax on output.
You are confused.
Sales tax is a tax on the cost of the item, it is the ONLY tax that a business can show under the line. |
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Eagle 1
join:2000-11-30
Rocky River, OH | reply to nhjones
But why do you have to pay a USF fee on both the voice invoice and the dsl invoice, when most likely it is the same copper wires (lineshare adsl)? |
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kumdo
join:2004-02-18
Union City, CA
2 edits | reply to lvas
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kumdo
join:2004-02-18
Union City, CA
| reply to lvas
As you stated --
The Universal Service Fund charge is a surcharge collected from telecommunications carriers such as Verizon or SBC to support the federal Universal Service Fund. -- it is not tax. The company can pay themselves or collect it from customers.
Issue is that companies are using this to bring in more money for them. They pass their share to FCC/PUC and keep the rest!
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lvas
join:2001-05-17
Glen Carbon, IL
| reply to justin
I understand your point - but my example still stands. The USF fee and other fees are imposed upon you by your govt, not SBC. They are not part of the price of the service so SBC should not list them. If all the fees disappered tomororow it would not relfect on the price of the service one bit.
SBC just collects the fees for your local, state and federal govt. if you have issues with that - complain to your govt.
No SBC does not get to "keep" some of the money and then pass on the rest.
all of the USF monies go into the USF fund and then phone companies collect there share "back" from the fund. It would perhaps help if you understood these things a tad better.  I'm sure it would suit SBC just fine if these fees went away - of course along with the requirement of universal phone service. then SBC would just charge that Farmer 20 miles out of town the "real" cost of stringing up a phone line & all of the polls - say around 10 or 15 thousand dollars. you wouldn't mind that - right:p |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
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| said by lvas :
I understand your point - but my example still stands. The USF fee and other fees are imposed upon you by your govt, not SBC. They are not part of the price of the service so SBC should not list them. If all the fees disappered tomororow it would not relfect on the price of the service one bit.
No you don't understand the point then.
Anything "below the line" can only be clearly and transparently passed on. The only tax that qualifies is sales tax, as it is defined as a percentage of the cost of an item.
The USF is NOT clearly and transparently passed back to the government. Where is an accounting that shows how many dollars are collected by SBC "below the line", and how many they pay into USF?
Without that accounting, the charge belongs, like ALL OTHER GOVERNMENT IMPOSED TAXES AND FEES EXCEPT SALES TAX, *above* the line and mixed into the overall fee, where we do not have to be concerned about it.
it is vital to be able to compare provider plans on an equal basis. This is impossible if below the line fees are added that are not disclosed as part of the price up front.
it is a scam. |
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jinjimbob
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
| reply to nhjones
said by nhjones :
While I don't think SBC should tack on an extra charge for the USF, I do think it is helpful that SBC and other businesses show the cost of USF and other taxes so people understand that SBC is paying that much in taxes. I know this is not always practical, but I wish that all businesses could show the amount they pay in taxes so that people start to understand that sometimes half of what they pay for something actually goes to taxes. High taxes are a major reason for high prices, but most people don't understand that because they don't see the tax amounts broken out -- they just think that businesses are greedy (which some are, but the government is greedy too with high taxes).
Do you want them to include the cleaning supply bill too? What about the water bill for the month? |
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Show me the Bill
@66.52.x.x
| reply to justin
Justin, you're making no sense on this issue. Some taxes vary by locality. Should businesses have to change their broadcast advertising to scroll a list of different prices by the screen for every locality the advertisement might reach? Should they list prices pre- and post- tax?
You are aware that businesses who buy a product for resale don't have to pay certain taxes, right?
And what is this non-sense about USF taxing inputs? USF taxes a telecom company's revenue for telecom services, as do all taxes. They either tax the revenue, tax the good by volume, or they tax the profit left over. If anything, inputs are a Deduction.
It is absolutely great that businesses break out taxes; government would like nothing more than to be able to tax without people seeing it. |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
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2 edits | What are you talking about?
USF does not vary by location, and it is imposed on the company. Tell me why USF is different than, say, payroll tax?
ISPs are totally unique in getting away with putting USF below the line, tell me another business that puts a "cost of doing business" below the line, excepting sales tax, which is put below the line for good reason that it DOES vary according to the buyer, and the buyers location, and what is more, is a percentage of the above the line cost.
USF is a fee imposed on the BACK END of a companies operation - their inputs. It is imposed on the items they BUY or LEASE in order to provide service. If they wish to sell those items at a huge profit, or a huge loss, makes no difference to the USF they must pay.
You'll have to come up with some links to prove that USF relates to the *revenue* of an ISP. If it does, if it directly relates to the amount of $'s collected from consumers, then I agree it should be split out on the bill. Although even in that case, I still think it is false advertising to not show inclusive price, as clearly everyone has to pay it, and the same amount for everyone, (that reads the adverts). |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to Eagle 1
said by Eagle 1 :
But why do you have to pay a USF fee on both the voice invoice and the dsl invoice, when most likely it is the same copper wires (lineshare adsl)?
I agree. sounds like they're 'double dipping' if you ask me.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth |
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Show me the Bill
@66.52.x.x
| reply to justin
I had a longer reply, but the power went out. OH well. Anyway, see my fcc.gov link in my post from yesterday farther down the list. It shows that USF is a Revenue tax.
The only thing I'll add is that I think USF sucks and should be repealed. It's a big pot of money for the RBOCs to sell high priced services to schools and governments, but instead of the school or government paying, or RBOCs giving a discount, they get all of their competitors customers to pay.. Bad stuff. |
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