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chRoniX10
Peace sells, but who's buying?
Premium
join:2004-05-22
Tarzana, CA
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| Tweaking? Did u try tweaking the connection instead of just complaining about it? go to www.cablenut.com to download the software and try to tweak, i doubt that a connection over 3 yrs can get so horrible, there has to be some explanation.
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Flyin with 1.5 DSL. | |
| | lvrdad_45
join:2001-09-18
Fort Worth, TX
 ·magicjack.com
| Re: Tweaking? Evidently you were unaware that is you use a router, you do not have to put any of the "SBC Yahoo" things on your computer. I have only IE that I connect to the internet with, and none of the software that you can use from SBC Yahoo, which I do not like at all. Also, if you had just a yahoo email account, you did not have to integrate it into SBC Yahoo, you could just leave it as a Yahoo mail account. It sounds to me like you actually had a SBC mail account hosted on SBC servers, not on the yahoo servers. As for the PPPoE, it works just fine on a router, without any of the junk software or SBC Yahoo you are talking about. Surprised if you have a MCSE, you had that much trouble...I am not in the computer field, and had no trouble at all setting up the account thru a router using PPPoE in the router and none of the SBC junk on the computer. | |
| | | sghetti
join:2002-07-16
Springdale, AR
| Re: Tweaking? In all my experience with SBC Yahoo!, over two years, I've never had a problem. I only get 1.5/384 where I'm at but it stays a steady 1200/315. The router that came with the package set up in minutes, like 2, and I've not a peep of trouble from it.
The only time I had an issue was when I had my outside line moved closer to my house. Apparently the new NIB that was put in had a half-ringer and that chopped my connection to pieces. However, a tech visit fixed that in about a half hour and all was back to where it always has been.
I'd recommend SBC to every one looking to highspeed if they can get it. I've dealt with Cox and they are just plain icky. | |
| | | printman31
join:2001-03-02
Chicago, IL
| I'd seriously have to ask what type of IT profesional you are to be having these problems with SBC Yahoo???
I've had this same connection since DSL came to my area...Only had problems the first year..After they worked the bugs out.It's been mainly trouble free..As a so called IT pro..You should've known that you don't have to install all the Yahoo toys...And that all you needed was the log in software(enternet) | |
| | | CloaknDagr
join:2003-10-16
San Pedro, CA
·ooma
·DSL EXTREME
| Evidently you are unaware that for about a year you could NOT run the software that establishes a new account without running the Yahoo software too. I tried, I called SBC and complained, they said they would change that in the next release of the software. They did in fact change it a year after the first release because so many people complained.
Evidently you are not aware that before you can use a router with PPPoE you have to have a user name and password, which means you have to have an account, which means that during that year you couldn't set up a new account and hook up a router until you installed all that Yahoo crap.
Evidently you didn't read my post because I said I had an SBC email account and SBC/Yahoo integrated it to Yahoo servers themselves without any notice or approval or anything else. They just DID it without telling me I needed to change my server settings.
Evidently you are not aware that IE doesn't CONNECT to the internet, it only BROWSES the internet once a connection has been established.
Evidently you are unaware that you don't have a clue. | |
| | | | | | CloaknDagr
join:2003-10-16
San Pedro, CA
·ooma
·DSL EXTREME
| Funny, neither I nor 3 SBC technicians could find any "tweaks" that would help, and we certainly tried. This is SBC TECHNICIANS on site, NOT SBC tech support. There is certainly an explanation, but neither SBC nor I can find it. According to them, it's in their wires somewhere.
I can't help what you doubt, those are the facts and SBC is aware of them.
Did you even bother to read my post? | |
| 
ryder9
join:2003-01-09
here | DOES your MCSE stand for.... May
Cause
Setup
Errors? | |
| | CrazyDon
join:2004-02-23
Gilroy, CA | Re: DOES your MCSE stand for.... I thought it stands for "must consult someone experienced" | |
| | CloaknDagr
join:2003-10-16
San Pedro, CA |  Very funny Sergeant, Semper Fi. | |
| 
aelfwyne
join:2004-01-28
Beaumont, TX | Don't have to use their software If you were running a real business with qualified people setting up these accounts, you'd know you can set up DSL without using the included software that SBC sends. It isn't SBC's fault that you don't know how to do your job. | |
| | CloaknDagr
join:2003-10-16
San Pedro, CA
·ooma
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Don't have to use their software Alright, this is getting stupid. The only people besides me that seem to know what they're talking about are Ryder9 and CrazyDon, and they're just screwing around.
For a year, like I said above, you DID have to install the Yahoo junk, at least if you bought DSL service here. So you don't know anything either.
Go ahead and be loyal to SBC/Yahoo, see if I give a flyin' rat. Deal with Indian Tech Support and hope it doesn't all come back and bite you in the face.
My post is exactly what happened, even the SBC techs agree it's not anything on my end that caused all of this, so I guess you all know more than SBC's own technicians. Those technicians, by the way, are less loyal to SBC/Yahoo than you all are, maybe they know something you don't. | |
| | | 
sbcnemesis
@mindspring.com
| Re: Don't have to use their software For a year, like I said above, you DID have to install the Yahoo junk, at least if you bought DSL service here. So you don't know anything either
You seem more like an Indian call processor, rather than an IT pro.
It was never necessary to use the Yahoo spyware crap. The account registration procedure is undocumented, but can be easily discovered by anyone with at least half a brain.
As for the defective line, test at the NID. Then you will know for sure where the fault lies. Not that it will help if the defect is outside wire.
It is amazing that you have not yet been charged for the visits. | |
| | | ChiTang
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-23
Alhambra, CA | You can bring along a XP machine to a new install, use the XP's built in PPPoe to establish the account and then program to router to login in. You do not need to use their CD. That is from day one. | |
| | |
sbcamericantechsuppo
@verizon.net
| Well I am an american tech support agent with SBC and I have been doing it for quite a while. I have some comments to make about sbcyahoo that I wish to keep unsaid, but back to the issue with the software...you do not need to install the cd to get the account registered at all. The way we guide you through it doesn't even need to put a cd into your drive what-so-ever. We know this because of the "IT" people that call in that know everything there is to know about computers and dsl and whatever else they think they know. Sorry, just some repressed anger for some of the bull headed "IT" people out there that would rather gripe,moan, and scream in our ears for 30 minutes instead of listening and letting us guide them through fixing their issues. We can take you into the cd and install enternet 300, unless you are running winXP or MAC 10.1 or higher (because they include their own PPPoE connection software), and create a connection with a generic userid and password. Then we can take you into the registration site and do everything from there. Yes there has been some problems with the outsourcing and I would have to agree with you 100% with problems coming from that, but that just makes it better when a customer calls in and gets one of us americans to troubleshoot their issues with the connections and whatever else comes up with the connection.
Anyway, I have ranted enough and maybe someday I might get lucky enough to get you on my phone so we can troubleshoot sometime. Hope this has been enlightening. | |
| | nateerb
join:2002-07-17
Milwaukee, WI
| I'm going to address the people on SBC's side here. I am also a small business consultant making a living - 10 years this fall.
I've had SBC DSL installed at 6 locations, the last being sometime in early '02. Of those six: three had their Speedstream routers die, two came in at speeds half of what was promised, and one account lost connectivity before I found out from Tier II tech support (and, very conservatively, an hour on the phone) that I needed to change their Speedstream router login for the change to SBC/YAHOO. All of these required time by the customer and ultimately my billable time to resolve. Sometimes I'd have to argue to get a router replacement - Snotty SBC Rep: "Just so you know, there'll be a $75 charge if we determine the customer was a fault; and by the way the router only has a year warranty so it'll be an extra $375 for the replacement." That's all I can remember at the moment, I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
Add these problems to numerous other issues in my career like half-assed crappy outside wiring on POTS, ISDN flakiness problems, billing mistakes, unprofessional ineffective and generally poor reseller partnerships, and the general attitude of our local Wisconsin Bell/Ameritech/SBC management and maybe you can see why some of us are on the defensive and bad to deal with as an employee of the company.
As someone who's free of the SBC teat (US Cell, Vonage, RR) I've told people to RUN RUN RUN from SBC since I gave them a chance on DSL between early '01 to early '02, and I'll never be back. | |
| | | CloaknDagr
join:2003-10-16
San Pedro, CA
·ooma
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Don't have to use their software Thanks Nateerb, I was getting tired of home users telling me things they know nothing about and/or telling me things I already knew and/or tried and calling me "stupid" because I didn't make my post 50,000 words long explaining that I'd already done that stuff.
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Those that can't set up a 500 computer network (500 employees or less is the industry definition of a small business) with clustered servers, network attached storage, hardware firewall, roaming profiles, managed ethernet switches, Gigabyte backbones, multiple local domains, on-site email servers, Cisco routers, interfaces between computer and non-computer electronics, etc., have no business responding to my post. The exception being the ONE SBC tech that posted above. The rest are just flaming which is the big liability to posting on any forum. You either get trolls or you get people that think they show off their knowledge by trying (and failing) to make the poster look stupid. They render this forum pointless.
The VERY FIRST THING I SAID was that this is about business connections. Those that don't DO business connections don't KNOW what I'm talking about and don't KNOW how frustrating and expensive this all is.
Most of these people have NO IDEA at all about business systems. One of the biggest headaches in my job is the "knowledgeable home user". They got their home network of 3 computers and a cheap NAT router to work fine and now they're "experts". Most of them have never even seen Windows 2000 Server or 2003 Server Operating Systems, let alone installed and configured them and all the things that go with them. I've actually gotten several of these people fired because they "tweaked" or fiddled with things they told their boss they were "experts" in, and when the boss got the bill for repairing their "fixes" he fired them. Just because something worked at home doesn't mean it will work on a business network. Just because something worked at home and runs on a business network doesn't mean it SHOULD be on a business network.
Very little of my post was concerned with establishing an internet connection during the period that you had to install the Yahoo crap too. The Yahoo crap was just a minor annoyance and was way up there above the worst comments about the service. I had called SBC tech support and was told by SBC that there was no way to do a new account without the Yahoo stuff. When a vendor tells me his software won't do something, that's the end of the story. Vendors won't support software if you do things they don't authorize with their product, so in business you just don't go there. If you screw up your home machine it's your bust, if you commit unauthorized use of a vendors software you lose the vendors support. That means that YOU support the software from there on out for free. It was an annoyance, but because some of these "experts" found another way to do it they feel qualified to criticize. Guess what? I found a way too, I just used my laptop, big deal. There are other ways to do it? DUH, SHERLOCK(s), WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST CLUE? The point was, this Yahoo doggy-do shouldn't have been in the connection software to businesses in the first place. If you're not a business owner that pays for this stuff or an IT pro that has to deal with that business owner, your opinion is irrelevant.
THE FACT THAT SBC/YAHOO EVEN SHIPS THIS CRAP WITH THEIR CONNECTION SOFTWARE TO BUSINESSES SHOULD SEND BUSINESS PEOPLE RUNNING AND SCREAMING AWAY FROM THE SERVICE!!!! IT OUGHT TO SCARE THE BEJEESUS OUT OF SOHO & HOME USERS TOO, BECAUSE I'LL GUARANTEE THAT A LOT OF SOHO & HOME USERS THAT DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER INSTALLED THIS CRAP AND IT'S STILL RUNNING! EVERYTHING ELSE ON THIS SUBJECT IS JUST EXCUSES!
Many of the other DSL providers don't need any software at all, you just connect the wires, tell the router it's a DHCP or static IP connection, and that's it, you're online, and you're online without any PPPoE overhead. So not only does SBC not need to send the Yahoo crud, it doesn't really need the rest of it either. They're just trying to screw you, and if that appeals to you you're not as brilliant as you think.
None of these people seem to understand the billing situation. You can't spend time on something like this and bill the client for it. Maybe you have lots of time to spend on your home machine diddling with this stuff, but I DON'T! I have plenty to do without that. This should be a non-issue because there's NO NEED for this software. Even with the hardware price crash IT work is still expensive and you're not serving your clients interests if you make it more expensive or complicated than it has to be. That goes for me, for SBC, and for anyone else selling services to end users.
Someone posted above that they're surprised SBC didn't bill for the techs they sent. I assure you they would have if they could have, don't doubt it for a second. The reason they didn't is because there was nothing wrong from the clients machine to their wire. THEY COULDN'T BILL FOR IT, and that should have told you that I'm not as "stupid" as you seem to think. Test at the NID? That was the first thing I did long before I ever called SBC. Duh. If you actually read the post, you would see that SBC didn't charge because it was their fault. If you actually read the post you would see that switching a client from SBC to COX wouldn't have solved anything if the problem wasn't with SBC. Except for a DOCSIS modem and switching from PPPoE to DHCP, it's all the same equipment basically configured the same way, it just uses a different outside wire, thus the problem isn't local. Before switching the client I ran an ethernet cable to their router from my hardware firewall to test internet connectivity and it worked fine. Talk about half a brain all you like, that's a topic it appears you do know something about.
Regarding the "American Tech Support Agent": Sorry but I'm not prone to calling you guys and ranting. It's your ball game and I'm happy to play by your rules if I'm talking to someone knowledgeable and NOT a useless script reader. The rare times I have to call tech support I've already eliminated problems on my end and I need your help, which I gladly, gratefully, and graciously accept. I called you for help, not to yell at you, the objective is to solve the problem not to shout invectives. I don't even yell at the Indian outsource people, that would be fruitless and pointless. They can only do what they're doing and it's not their fault they're useless, they're FORCED to be useless. I'll say again: I shouldn't have to call you to get an internet connection without all the Yahoo crap, it shouldn't even be there and that was the point of the paragraph I wrote on that topic, NOT that there's another way to do it. OF COURSE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO DO IT!!! Like I said: THE FACT THAT SBC/YAHOO EVEN SHIPS THIS CRAP WITH THEIR CONNECTION SOFTWARE SHOULD SEND PEOPLE RUNNING AND SCREAMING AWAY FROM THE SERVICE!!!! When the vendor tries to screw the client from the very beginning, that's a VERY bad sign. Also, you may be helpful and knowledgeable but it's a pure pain-in-the-butt to get to you guys. When you call 1-877-SBC-DSL5 support there's no option to "Press 8 to talk to someone who can actually help you". I shouldn't have to call Tier 2+ tech support for something that took 10 minutes to do before the Yahoo situation!
The whole scenario belabors the fact that SBC/Yahoo has geared the system to support home users with little or no computer experience and has left us business users out in the cold.
Bottom line: This topic has gotten all blown out of proportion over this connection issue. That was a minor annoyance. Even the SBC American tech agent that responded doesn't seem to be addressing the other and much more serious problems I describe. I posted my credentials so that people could assume I'd already done all the obvious things long ago, not to brag. Instead they point out those obvious things and call me incompetent because they want to try to show how "smart" they are. I figured the post was long enough without me going into detail on all the obvious things that had been checked and/or tried before posting here. Bad service is bad service and this has certainly become bad service. End of story. The amateurs think they know more than the SBC field techs and me. This is typical for amateurs.
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Thank you Nateerb, there's a lot of IT pros out there that are fed up with SBC and if SBC doesn't fix those problems they're going to lose/miss important clients. The people in this forum making excuses for this blatant disregard for business users are lame, they're not helping the service they think (now, time will tell as it has with us) they're so loyal to. I'll never go back to them or recommend them again. | |
| | | | ChiTang
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-23
Alhambra, CA
| Re: Don't have to use their software I think it is also the IT consultant's responsibility to tell/explain to their client to get a more expensive/reliable connection to suit their business need. A 50 dollar connection is going to be nothing more than a 50 dollar connection. Anything more is unrealistic expectation. | |
| | | | | CloaknDagr
join:2003-10-16
San Pedro, CA
·ooma
·DSL EXTREME
| Bull No matter what it costs, it should do what it's advertised to do. It should do what the company says it will do when they take your money.
If the consultant determines that the client doesn't need anything more than a $50 connection, the connection should work according to the parameters stated by the company providing the connection. If it doesn't, it's a ripoff.
What is it in this forum with people making BS lame excuses for SBC/Yahoo not doing what it's paid to do? | |
| | | | | | ChiTang
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-23
Alhambra, CA
| Re: Bull If SBC is as bad as you claim to be, why did you recommend it to your customer to begin with? A 50.00 dollar connection is based on "best effort".
As a consultant, one should:
1. Advise client to get appropirate broadband, based on how critical their business depends on it and not the price.
2. Know the SBC software is not necessary.
3. Have a couple tier 2 guys from many companys as "buddy" to make live easier and do not have to go through the red tape. | |
| | | | | | | nateerb
join:2002-07-17
Milwaukee, WI
| Re: Bull I don't know you, Cloakndagr, and I think you should lighten up on the whole SBC thing. You're going to blow a gasket, Charlie - don't let them get to you. You sound like I did 2 years ago.
OTOH I'll reply to ChiTang's comments. Keep in mind I had a dead POTS line on a DSL install this week (new POTS with new DSL - for a fax line). Granted it's not the SBCDSL unit's problems but dead POTS meant no DSL. So SBC's still isn't impressing me here.
Maybe he didn't recommend SBC. Maybe that's all that was available for the customer short of a T1. Maybe the customer insisted on SBC for some foul and strange reason. There's a lot of maybe's in small business consulting.
1. One does "advise" in this business. Doesn't mean you can force a client in to something.
2. One should know the SBC software isn't necessary, but how does one learn this - it's not apparent in the SBC literature, and Tier I (at least 2 years ago) was telling us we HAD to use the software.
3. I don't want any "buddies" from SBC, I choose my friends and partnerships wisely. | |
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| Forums » comments on review of AT&T Yahoo |
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Re: Tweaking?