  Civrock Premium join:2005-06-25 North Wilkesboro, NC | Re: Feds Start Wait List For DTV Converter Coupons Obviously those 6.8% that still haven't done it... don't watch TV anyway!
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  woody7 Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| pffttt.... "and this wasn't expected "? My point is that "most" people knew this was coming, and neglected to plan for it. I got the coupon, bought the converter, and mailed it to my mother inlaw.She called and said she already had one, and I said take it to church and let them give it to someone else. It probably would have been better to tell people to go to the post office and pick one up. Contract out to some "chinese" company and have it made. Most people just didn't want to be bothered with the coupon hassle any way.Peace -- BlooMe | |
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 |   ctceo Premium join:2001-04-26 South Bend, IN clubs:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
·HughesNet Satellit..
4 edits | Re: pffttt.... We planned for it just about a year in advance, and due to the state of the economy weren't able to afford our second box in time to meet the expiration date.
I have a friend that makes over $100k a year, and he applied for the coupons, which should have been restricted from those in his income level to begin with, Id est. Only those in the Poverty/Low Income levels would qualify, $40/$20, 2 coupons/1 coupon respectively.
To top things off, when I got my coupons I had to wait almost 9 months for any local seller to have the damn things in stock at the MSRP (some sold the $40 boxes for $79.99, Wal-mart advertised the boxes for 1 week at $29.99 before they got stock in, then jacked the price to $39.99 when stock was in), and in fact the first day I went there after a hard days work they had already sold out of the 100 units they had in stock THAT WEEK, yes ONLY 100 UNITS.
The execution and planning that went into this program was FAR worse than the problems were having now with people not being ready. This is NOT including the problems the transition alone will cause after the switchover is complete, i.e. More Channels, Less stable and reliable. -- Would you like your ISP to govern how much you can use the web in a month? Well it might happen if we don't do something NOW! »www.ipetitions.com/petition/PMDBI/ | |
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  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | I call BS could be some of those houses bought boxes without applying for coupons or have newer TVs. I think that 6.8% number is bogus. | |
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 |   AMDUSER Premium join:2003-05-28 Earth clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: I call BS What the government should have done was mandate that all tvs,dvd-vcr combos (with tuner) etc. sold new at retail had to include a digital tuner starting on January 1,2006. The digital transition was pushed back to 2009 back in 2005 for some reason.
If I was in charge, I would require that all radios sold on or after a specific date had to include HD capability built-in. I would then transition the FM stations to (digital) HD and move the AM stations to the FM band. (I would require the station frequency be assigned in the first 6 months of preparing. The stations would be notified and would not delay the transition which would be in 1.5 years after starting. I would also make it illegal to sell new radios at retail without the equipment built in.
(Primarly to punish the companies who decide to flood the market with obsolete equipment.. mainly Chinese made stuff. Which is what happened while it was still legal to sell analog only tvs prior to March 2007 as long as the stores were in possession before that date.) | |
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 |  |  apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA
1 edit | Re: I call BS said by AMDUSER :What the government should have done was mandate that all tvs,dvd-vcr combos (with tuner) etc. sold new at retail had to include a digital tuner starting on January 1,2006. The digital transition was pushed back to 2009 back in 2005 for some reason. Do you mean what the government should have done, or what they did do? Because there were dates established.
July 1, 2006 - 100% of 25-35" TVs must include ATSC DTV tuner July 1, 2007 - 100% of 13-24" TVs must include ATSC DTV tuner
I don't have the exact date for dvd/vcr combos or vcr's, but they went through the same thing. | |
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 |  |  |   AMDUSER Premium join:2003-05-28 Earth clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: I call BS What they should have done. The date for the diffrent size tvs should have been the same date though. The date for dvd-vcr combos was March 1, 2007.
The other catch was that if you didn't include an analog tuner you didn't have to include a digital tuner. (Which is what was done for quite a few dvd-vcr combos, even those being sold today.) | |
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 |  |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: I call BS said by AMDUSER :What they should have done. The date for the diffrent size tvs should have been the same date though. The date for dvd-vcr combos was March 1, 2007. which was nearly 2 years in advance of the transition. fact is store that still sold old stock of items without tuners clearly labled then and people still bought them because they were on clearance. Tough shit for cheapos trying to save a buck. I'm all for saving money but not when it's going to cost me more later. just common sense. | |
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 |   maartena Stacked. Premium join:2002-05-10 Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| I got a haircut today, and they had a TV in the corner. Another customer made mention that it won't work anymore after February, and the girl just said "Yeah I know, i'll get the converter box before that".
And that was last week.....
I'd say there's quite a few people or small businesses with a TV using rabbit ears still. | |
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  danny9894 Student
join:2004-03-05 Minneapolis, MN | government Haha imagine that, a government program running out of cash. Maybe the saviors GDubb and Negative Nancy should create a bailout plan because I hear it fixes everything  | |
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  Dogg Premium join:2003-06-11 Belleville, IL
·Charter Pipeline
| lame The numbers are likely screwed up by people requesting the coupons that don't need them. I've spoken with several people who requested he coupons "just in case". So even though, the plan has money in the bank, it can't be spent yet because it has to cover all of the outstanding coupons. -- Google is your Friend | |
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 |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: lame That's me. I have two sitting on my desk right in front of me. Eventually, I'll use at least one of them, I guess. | |
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  v35_pilot Whoops, there goes another AMU Premium join:2005-12-12 Fayetteville, NY | That many households need these? This program ran out of cash because of the millions of households in the US that still receive their TV signal from OTA antennas?
Damn... I am guilty of assuming most received TV from the local cable/satellite companies. | |
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 |   Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th ahhh, hmmm, Beavis what did you do to the TV. This sucks and I don't like things that suck. | |
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 |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th said by Transmaster :ahhh, hmmm, Beavis what did you do to the TV. This sucks and I don't like things that suck. They had to have had cable. I also liked the music video channel they watched better than emptyV itself. Too bad that wasn't a real channel.  -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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 |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | How did they get MTV without cable? | |
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 |  |   David No,there is another. Premium,VIP join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL clubs: | Beavis and Butthead,
those guys bring back memories.... I kinda miss them in some sick way. | |
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 |  |  |   maartena Stacked. Premium join:2002-05-10 Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th said by David :Beavis and Butthead, those guys bring back memories.... I kinda miss them in some sick way. I hear ya. They were cute in some sort of weird way.  | |
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 |  |   jbgroup1 Dolemite Premium join:2000-05-04 Beltsville, MD | I have FIOS cable TV and got a converter box with the coupon just in case I might decide to get rid of cable. -- I gotcha boy hangin'. You no business, born, insecure, junkyard M****f***! | |
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  morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | program a joke This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste. | |
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 |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: program a joke said by morbo :This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste. I agree. Technologies change. People need to adapt.
I liken this transition to the dumping of AMPS/TDMA from last year. Even though the cell phone companies involved had customers using these services, they were somehow able to be transitioned without the need of some sort of government-sponsored program. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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 |  |  cmaenginsb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-19 Palmdale, CA
| Re: program a joke said by pnh102 :said by morbo :This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste. I agree. Technologies change. People need to adapt. I liken this transition to the dumping of AMPS/TDMA from last year. Even though the cell phone companies involved had customers using these services, they were somehow able to be transitioned without the need of some sort of government-sponsored program. Except for those using ADT alarm systems that no longer work or were informed. There's an AMPs related lawsuit in Florida already. | |
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 |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: program a joke said by cmaenginsb :Except for those using ADT alarm systems that no longer work or were informed. There's an AMPs related lawsuit in Florida already. Were they paying money to ADT for monitoring?
If that's the case, what planet was ADT on? Verizon, AT&T and other cell phone companies which had previously offered AMPS service made it very clear this was on the way out. If anyone is at fault, it is ADT for not taking the time to prepare for that transition. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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 |  |   asdfdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| The technology changed because the government mandated it.
I feel confident that if the government was to mandate a change that destroyed the value of the property of the affluent many would be outraged.
Why should we then be indifferent to the destruction of the value of the property of the poor? It is those who have bought tvs but don't have cable who will end up with worthless, useless televisions. The affluent will be fine.
I think the government made a sincere effort to create a reasonable and just policy and I think the government had to provide the same opportunity to the affluent to be able to recover the value of their property if they had OTA reception. I don't condemn them for the basic structure of the program. The government seems to have made some consideration of the tendencies of humans that would lead to those in the best and most knowledgeable position gobbling up many of the coupons whether they needed them or not. They did set aside a portion of the coupons for those whose sole access to television was OTA.
I just wish the government had done more to make it clear to people that there were a limited number of coupons and to ask them not to claim a coupon unless they needed it and intended to use it. I don't know if this would have solved the problem. I'm sure there would be a certain number of people who would have asked for coupons anyway. I think, however, that most people try to be decent if you nudge them in the right direction and would have refrained if they had fully understood the implications of holding coupons and not using them. | |
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 |  |  |  dentman42
join:2001-10-02 Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: program a joke said by asdfdfdfdfdfdfdf :
The technology changed because the government mandated it.
I feel confident that if the government was to mandate a change that destroyed the value of the property of the affluent many would be outraged.
Why should we then be indifferent to the destruction of the value of the property of the poor? It is those who have bought tvs but don't have cable who will end up with worthless, useless televisions. The affluent will be fine.
I think the government made a sincere effort to create a reasonable and just policy and I think the government had to provide the same opportunity to the affluent to be able to recover the value of their property if they had OTA reception. I don't condemn them for the basic structure of the program. The government seems to have made some consideration of the tendencies of humans that would lead to those in the best and most knowledgeable position gobbling up many of the coupons whether they needed them or not. They did set aside a portion of the coupons for those whose sole access to television was OTA.
I just wish the government had done more to make it clear to people that there were a limited number of coupons and to ask them not to claim a coupon unless they needed it and intended to use it. I don't know if this would have solved the problem. I'm sure there would be a certain number of people who would have asked for coupons anyway. I think, however, that most people try to be decent if you nudge them in the right direction and would have refrained if they had fully understood the implications of holding coupons and not using them. First, the transition wasn't necessary and should not be done. It was about selling off frequencies that were allocated to the public. 95% of the population doesn't notice the difference and was perfectly happy with their analog signals.
IF the transition has/had to happen, it should have been at least 10 years after sales of equipment with NTSC-only tuners were discontinued. (I've got a 20" set I bought in 2005 and a 46" HDTV that I bought in 2005 that have NTSC-only tuners - 2 of them in the 46".) Is the life expenctancy of these TVs really considered to be 3 to 4 years? (At the time I bought the 46, it would have been about $400 more to get the model with the ATSC tuner - and that only added ATSC, not QAM). | |
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 |  |  |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: program a joke said by morbo :ugh... "TracFone Wireless believes that cell phone ownership is a right " Welp, look at it this way. Tracfone just provides the phones to welfare recipients. Everyone with a landline is financing it via the Universal Service Fee paid to the FCC . Now they've just extended this slush fund to finance mobile phones for the same group of welfare recipients. People on welfare will get the mobile phones just as they have been getting landline assistance all along courtesy of everyone who has a landline. | |
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by morbo :This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste. You do know that the money from tehe prgram is coming from the spectrum aution. I guess you don't. | |
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 |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: program a joke said by morbo :i am aware of that, but it makes no difference. that is money that would have been spent elsewhere or saved. similar to the belief that when buying a house, the real estate agent (buyers agents) don't cost you any money. it's just the seller that it costs 6%. well, where do you think the seller gets that money? why, the buyer of course. it's an ILLUSION of being free. just like somehow the fact that this money came from an auction is the ILLUSION that it is somehow special/free money. You do realize if not for this stipulation the never would have been an auction.
At the end of the day it's $1.34 billion. I know that sounds like a lot to your but it's nothing. about $4.50 for every citizen. We spend that much every 2 days in Iraq. | |
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 SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19 | Lots Leftover Should use the USF for this...universal slush fund. | |
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  jimbo48
join:2000-11-17 Hayward, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
·EarthLink
| Converters I'm one of those who applied for the Coupon Long ago and never used them to buy the converter for my 87 year old mother-in-law- The fact that the coupon "expired" was not clearly defined/mentioned- must have been in the "fine print" no one reads- maybe it's changed since then- Long story short- went to use the coupons and they were no good and you can't get replacements and no one else at your address can get them either-Two coupons per address. Why the government has to subsidize OTA TV is a mystery though-its not a life necessity. If I need to go OTA (Direct TV is becoming the pits for me) or cable ( God help me - I'd have to use Comcast)I'll pay the 60 bucks for a converter and know that I'm not sucking on the Big Teat of our socialist way of life. If you want OTA you'll have to have a digital converter for your analog TV or a Digital TV-no mystery. We switched to unleaded gas and the world didn't end and we'll switch to Digital OTA and life will go on despite all the lawyers and special interest groups trying to extort money from the US taxpayer. | |
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 |  |  KennesawMtn
join:2008-12-30 Kennesaw, GA
| Re: Converters Exactly, hard to miss. I figured the reason they expired was so that the money could be freed to be re-released if a coupon was not used. I ordered two of them last March, and redemed one of them in June. I figured the money allocated to the one I did not use went back in the pot. | |
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 |  |   busy person
@sbcglobal.net
| What if you were a really busy person who wasn't lazy and expecting the government to do your work for you who received the envelope containing the coupons and just set it aside without opening it, knowing it held the coupons and intending to take the envelope to the store when you purchased the convertor boxes. Logic would dictate the coupons would be good until used, correct? Apparently the government uses their own brand of logic ..... | |
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  WHYFREE
| I don't understand.. why they are even giving away boxes for free in the first place. These are people that are too cheap or poor to buy cable or sat service. Why are we giving out yet more tax $$$ for a non-essential service. Let's be honest, once the full transmission phase is over, DTV boxes are going to become dirt cheap. As far as I know the TV doesn't give you a television for free, why should they give you hardware to use it? Just change it and make people buy what would be a 30 dollar piece of hardware themselves. More money in all of our pockets. | |
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 |   Eat Me
join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ | Re: I don't understand.. A lot of houses that depend on antenna TV are low income households. A lot of them are also hispanic households.
Do you really want La Raza to rally at FCC HQ in Washington DC and call Kevin Martin a racist? | |
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by WHYFREE :
why they are even giving away boxes for free in the first place. These are people that are too cheap or poor to buy cable or sat service. Why are we giving out yet more tax $$$ for a non-essential service. Let's be honest, once the full transmission phase is over, DTV boxes are going to become dirt cheap. As far as I know the TV doesn't give you a television for free, why should they give you hardware to use it? Just change it and make people buy what would be a 30 dollar piece of hardware themselves. More money in all of our pockets. A) the boxes are not given out for free
B) ZERO tax $$$ were used to fund this.
please educate yourself on topics you wish to discuss. | |
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 |  |  apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA 2 edits | Re: I don't understand.. said by WHYFREE :
B) ZERO tax $$$ were used to fund this. If that's the case, then exactly where did the money come from? | |
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 |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: I don't understand.. said by apollo80 :said by WHYFREE :
B) ZERO tax $$$ were used to fund this. If that's the case, then exactly where did the money come from? seriously are you that obtuse? the FCC auctioned off the spectrum that was going to no longer be used and raised $19.6 billion of which a measly $1.34 bil was used for this coupon program. | |
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 |  |  |  |  apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA
| Re: I don't understand.. said by BF69 :said by apollo80 :said by WHYFREE :
B) ZERO tax $$$ were used to fund this. If that's the case, then exactly where did the money come from? seriously are you that obtuse? the FCC auctioned off the spectrum that was going to no longer be used and raised $19.6 billion of which a measly $1.34 bil was used for this coupon program. Um, all I did was ask a question, and was curious for an answer. And I wasn't harsh when I asked the question.
Thank you for the answer.
But I think you need to take a chill pill. | |
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 satellite68
join:2007-04-11 Louisville, KY | How is this broadband related? I think Karl posts this stuff to provoke the "free money for everyone!" versus "ban the government now!" arguments that inherently come up here...:) | |
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 |  KennesawMtn
join:2008-12-30 Kennesaw, GA
| Re: How is this broadband related? Addressing a couple of statements above.
The funds from for the cards did not come from taxes, but rather from some of the proceeds from the FCC auction/sale to cell phone companies, etc for the rights to use of the 700 mhz UHF spectrum that will no longer carry TV.
Applying for the cards clearly informed you they would expire after 60 or 90 days, and the cards themselves clearly had expiration dates embossed on them. | |
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  DaMaGeINC The Lan Man Premium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC clubs: | I signed up for a coupon And never got one. | |
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  no_one
@QWEST.NET | Free spectrum sales should be vast compared to set top boxes They did it so they could free up the spectrum and resell the now unused spectrum. The cost of the set top box program is supposed to be cheap compared to the revenue the government could make now selling the freed up spectrum. | |
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: Free spectrum sales should be vast compared to set top boxes said by no_one :
They did it so they could free up the spectrum and resell the now unused spectrum. The cost of the set top box program is supposed to be cheap compared to the revenue the government could make now selling the freed up spectrum. Um they sold the spectrum LAST year. They made over $19 billion. | |
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  slimpickinz
join:2003-11-29 Conyers, GA | I got me one of dem dare boxes... and it don't work worth a damn... guess I have to gets me anudder coupon for a better antenny... yup -- Visit Us Here! | |
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  govmnt cheese
@pacbell.net
| I want my gov bailout too. I signed up for my government handouts too on Dec 31. According to their website they are scheduled to arrive next week. My cable company has already transitioned a couple channels over to ATSC SD already in their usual 6mo channel shuffle for no reason. There is nothing stopping them from doing the same thing in Feb for all, or just more channels. Without a converter the cable provider can now provide a cable box for yet another "modest" fee. A couple of things that are interesting is the prices of the converters has gone up it seems. Also I went through some info for the online retailers that are on the happy coupon list and on one the domain was registered April 2008, with no record of existing before that. Everyone's lining up for their profit from the transition. | |
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 |   Piggie I Actually use Windstream Premium join:2005-11-23 Orange Springs, FL
·HughesNet Satellit..
·Windstream
| Re: I want my gov bailout too. First it was known by the FCC that the money would run out before everyone that needed a converter could get a coupon. They have suggested back in late 2007 that they should find additional funding. I guess that didn't happen. It was all over the news here to get one early or loose.
From the people I know and other surveys I have read it's between 5 to 8% of TV's aren't ready. I say it's probably more like a couple of percent. That is now. There will be a lot of conversation to new TVs, cable, etc.
It will probably take about a year and you can get a converter box for free from a neighbor or free cycle.
Yeap, they expire and the money went back in the pool for a new coupon.
Bailout? Why is it some working stiff gets 2 $40 coupons and he is a socialist communist, but wall street has parties on bail out money to the tune a tens of thousands per person at the party and well, that is ok.
Why the coupons? It was mandated. I suspect most of the complaints about it come from those that still believe in free markets. Well if this had of been a free market change, there would have been no mandated cut off date. Not all countries have such a date and are doing it free market.
Probably last but should have been first. There was always going to be people that didn't get ready. Just like here in FL, a hurricane is coming and they die in the tidal surge. Some people will never listen. -- | Speedstream 4200 Modem - 3m/384 plan | W98-W2KSP4-XPSP2 - All AMD | Buffalo WHR G54S with Tomato 1.18 | 3 downstream switches feeding 6 total clients (no wireless) | Including the Data port on the side of my neck | | |
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 |  dentman42
join:2001-10-02 Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| said by govmnt cheese :
My cable company has already transitioned a couple channels over to ATSC SD already in their usual 6mo channel shuffle for no reason. There is nothing stopping them from doing the same thing in Feb for all, or just more channels. Without a converter the cable provider can now provide a cable box for yet another "modest" fee. Are you sure that they moved them to ATSC? Most cable companies use QAM (which the coupon-eligible boxes are prevented from handling) rather than ATSC, and afaik, they were never required to carry even the locals in ATSC. Sure, they carry the digital feeds, but it's in QAM, not ATSC. | |
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  sporkme drop the crantini and move it, sister Premium,MVM join:2000-07-01 Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| The captcha that knew too much... Note the captcha word I got when checking my status today... -- with every mistake we must surely be learning | |
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  silence dogood
@vibco.com | never got them I never received my coupons at all, they should have been mailed 11/25/08; status on the website shows approved, etc. I emailed them an inquiry today, but I'm not holding my breath... | |
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