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story category AT&T, Comcast Part Of RIAA's New 3 Strikes Plan
P2P Piracy goes from industry's quiet killer app, to public enemy number one...
(old news - 01:20PM Wednesday Jan 28 2009)
tags: legal · competition · Fileswapping · business · Comcast · AT&T U-Verse · AT&T Midwest
Last December, the RIAA boldly announced via the Wall Street Journal that they would be ditching mass lawsuits in favor of placing ISPs in the role of content nannies. Under the proposed system, ISPs would send offenders warning letters (something many ISPs have already been doing for years), while quietly adopting a three strikes system for repeat offenders. The RIAA has been hashing this new system out with select ISPs behind closed doors with the supposed help of New York's Attorney General, who recently made headlines for his largely ineffective war on Usenet child porn). None of the ISPs have publicly admitted to participating in the plan (though we've confirmed that Cox is).

Click for full size
CNET has discovered, not too surprisingly, that both Comcast and AT&T are among the plan's dozen or so participants, though no carrier wants to admit as much on the record. Insiders at the two companies say the carriers are "skittish" about the negative press, certainly in part because of fear customers will flock to non-participating ISPs (like Verizon). Insiders note that so far, the plan still isn't much of one -- and no formal agreements have been signed:
There are still plenty of details left to work out, the sources said. The RIAA has yet to address how it would help ISPs make up for the revenue they would lose by kicking people off their networks or who would pay the costs of sending take-down notices. The RIAA may disclose participating ISPs as soon as next month, according to a music industry source, adding that AT&T and Comcast are expected to be part of the group.
The irony of course is that for years piracy was broadband's "killer app," quietly used by ISPs to lure dial-up subscribers to broadband. Now that the market is saturated, and carriers like AT&T and Comcast have become network operators and content companies, they've found it's in their best financial interest to clamp down on P2P piracy. Both Comcast and AT&T certainly have the financial resources to put forth a serious anti-piracy effort.

AT&T is not only planning to participate in the RIAA's three strikes plan, they're also testing caps, metered billing and piracy filters. The entertainment industry would love it if all ISPs would follow AT&T's lead either voluntarily or by force -- but so far they've had no luck passing laws requiring that ISPs become piracy police. Without laws, ISPs are still protected by safe harbor provisions under the DMCA, allowing them to say no to their new job as babysitter. That will let some ISPs sit back and catch the fleeing pirates from participating ISPs as new customers.

Even if the plan were put into law, the system raises far more questions than it answers, including who pays, who tracks offenders across multiple ISPs, what happens to ISPs who don't cooperate, who'll oversee the fairness of the system, and what the grievance system is for the falsely accused. That's going to be expensive, prone to error, and would require a lot of new regulation for carriers who don't much like regulation. If piracy's history is any indication -- it wouldn't slow piracy's growth anyway.

Related:
  1. Comcast Tells FCC To Butt Out
  2. ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan
  3. AT&T: We Won't Boot P2P Users
  4. Nobody's Complaining About Comcast's New Throttling
  5. U-Verse Arrives In Memphis
  6. Comcast 'Honors' FCC Authority On Neutrality
  7. AT&T Cutting 2,500 Jobs
  8. AT&T Has Biggest iPhone Quarter Yet
Forums » AT&T, Comcast Part Of RIAA's New 3 Strikes Plan
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baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

3 edits

And it begins....

The end of US piracy.

Any idea on when this will be implimented?

When will the MPAA get involved, and add THEIR tax?

NJ OOL User

@optonline.net

Re: And it begins....

Are you kidding?

Since the first bit appeared there has been "piracy".
More truthfully sharing/copying.

It always has been and always shall be. So sayeth the code.
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

Re: And it begins....

it says "Expected" so theres hope that comcast won't join in

if they do how likely will it be that the FCC will throw the book at all ISP's that join in with (oh so you don't want Safe Harbor now pay the price of not being a Safe harbor)
BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
·Verizon FIOS

Re: And it begins....

gimmme a break...

We know who pays for this... WE DO!!

I suspect next these ISP's will be looking for a bail out because the cost of all these new monitoring apps is killing their bandwidth for legitimate users who are switching back to dial up!
--
---Barney

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
this will just drive it back underground there are more ways then just bittorret to pirate stuff

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

I highly doubt that this would be the end of US piracy. First of all, not all ISPs will be participating. Secondly, there has always been a technological arms race between the pirates and the content owners. The ISPs get 3 Strikes and filters and the pirates will find ways around the filters and will find ways to stay undetected.

Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ

Re: And it begins....

Exactly. So far it's the ISP's that don't have the networks to handle it. Notice Verizon (FIOS) has said they have no interest in playing NetCop on this one.

BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA

said by baineschile See Profile :

The end of US piracy.

Any idea on when this will be implimented?

When will the MPAA get involved, and add THEIR tax?
years 1603 to 2009 »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
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·AT&T Yahoo
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said by baineschile See Profile :

The end of US piracy.
The end of access to the Internet, you mean. Piracy won't stop, but silencing/oppressing people will continue to increase.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Whats the problem?

Only the thieves should be worried.
CanadianIron

join:2006-10-08
Beverly Hills, CA


3 edits

Re: Whats the problem?

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
Excellent point. You are smart to think about it this way. Only thieves who are the majority of the internet users in the USA need be worried.

Those with tightly locked down wireless who do not engage in copyright infringement have nothing to worry about in most cases.

False positives don't seem to be likely.

There is very little potential for abuse of this system.

Or it could all go terribly wrong and turn into chaos.

Either way it will be interesting to watch.

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Whats the problem?

said by CanadianIron See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
Excellent point. You are smart to think about it this way. Only thieves who are the majority of the internet users in the USA need be worried.
Thieves are not the majority force on the internet. All one has to do is look at the reasoning behind bandwidth caps to realize that.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk

Re: Whats the problem?

said by Matt See Profile :

said by CanadianIron See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
Excellent point. You are smart to think about it this way. Only thieves who are the majority of the internet users in the USA need be worried.
Thieves are not the majority force on the internet. All one has to do is look at the reasoning behind bandwidth caps to realize that.
Don;t waste the energy to type. That is ninjaturtle's usual post.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: Whats the problem?

said by ptrowski See Profile :

Don;t waste the energy to type. That is ninjaturtle's usual post.
Actually it's been too long -- and I think he skipped a thread, too -- in this case his old troll is also on topic.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...

Pizz
Hi

join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable

said by Matt See Profile :

said by CanadianIron See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
Excellent point. You are smart to think about it this way. Only thieves who are the majority of the internet users in the USA need be worried.
Thieves are not the majority force on the internet. All one has to do is look at the reasoning behind bandwidth caps to realize that.
The reasoning behind bandwidth caps, is poorly implemented network infrastructure. You don't sell a product/service if you cannot supply it. Instead of upping speed tiers, maybe just reduce the amount of speed, and wait until the last mile can sustain, this added 'usage'.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
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Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
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said by Matt See Profile :

Thieves are not the majority force on the internet. All one has to do is look at the reasoning behind bandwidth caps to realize that.
Change it to Corporate thieves and it becomes close to the truth
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast

All someone would have to do is wrongfully send you 3 DMCA takedown notices and your offline

and that someone could just not like you, be randomly sending fake notices, or be a mentaly incompetent RIAA lawyer

and bam your offline and they'll never hear your side unless you pay crazy amounts to a lawyer and hope to win
jagged

join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL

Re: Whats the problem?

Genius ... I am guessing you have never written DMCA notices
in that case do educate yourself on what DMCA notice rules are

and bear in mind sending off a fake DMCA notice is the same as lieing under oath.

Whoever signs the DMCA does so "under penalty of perjury" like so:

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: Whats the problem?

That doesn't make them accurate, that just prevents them (if possible) from being totally fabricated by the person signing.

Take a look: »bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/0···notices/
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...

bender
Bite my shiny metal ass
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
clubs:

1 edit
---EDITED SO I DON'T GET BANNED FROM BBR---

avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ

Re: Whats the problem?

said by bender See Profile :

---EDITED SO I DON'T GET BANNED FROM BBR---
It doesn't show as edited..

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Whats the problem?


funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
We're all thieves in the copyright act -- it's unavoidable! It needs to change.

PS: I'm sure I'm a "thief" right now. I'm using Linux and I'm sure that I've got something on here that violates someone's copyright. Some font, some codec, something ...
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Re: Whats the problem?

said by funchords See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
We're all thieves in the copyright act -- it's unavoidable! It needs to change.

PS: I'm sure I'm a "thief" right now. I'm using Linux and I'm sure that I've got something on here that violates someone's copyright. Some font, some codec, something ...
... an image from the net in your cache, some BS MySpace page music file that you just KNOW they have the right to use.

Thing is, so do most of the "P2P is teh devil" posters here.

Bad! Bad pirates!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA


1 edit

Re: Whats the problem?

said by dadkins See Profile :

said by funchords See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
We're all thieves in the copyright act -- it's unavoidable! It needs to change.

PS: I'm sure I'm a "thief" right now. I'm using Linux and I'm sure that I've got something on here that violates someone's copyright. Some font, some codec, something ...
... an image from the net in your cache, some BS MySpace page music file that you just KNOW they have the right to use.

Correct! Even if your browser graces the pages of YOUTUBE, you are a thief.
--
There is no love untouched by hate
No unity without discord
There is no courage without fear
There is no peace without a war
There is no wisdom without regret
No admiration without scorn

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Re: Whats the problem?

I dunthinkso

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Whats the problem?

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

I dunthinkso
umm, yes. when you view any youtube page, you are downloading copyright content. Youtube is full of copyright content.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Re: Whats the problem?

Now you're just talking out of your

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Whats the problem?

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Now you're just talking out of your
You are in denial.

Have you ever watch a music video at Youtube?
Have you ever watch a home made video with music in it?
Have you ever watch a trailer there?

if so, you too are a thief.
And i'll assume you saw the mickey mouse image.
--
There is no love untouched by hate
No unity without discord
There is no courage without fear
There is no peace without a war
There is no wisdom without regret
No admiration without scorn

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Whats the problem?

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Now you're just talking out of your
You are in denial.

Have you ever watch a music video at Youtube?
Have you ever watch a home made video with music in it?
Have you ever watch a trailer there?

if so, you too are a thief.
And i'll assume you saw the mickey mouse image.
YouTube hosts the material, not you. That is why THEY receive the DMCA Takedown notice. With a torrent file, no one hosts the content, so they go after the users who actually download the file.

Also, copyright infringement has to be willful. I had no idea that Mickey Mouse image was there and I could easily prove in a court of law that I never intended to download it. You, on the other hand, would be the one in trouble, not DSLReports or anyone else who viewed it.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Whats the problem?

said by Matt See Profile :

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Now you're just talking out of your
You are in denial.

Have you ever watch a music video at Youtube?
Have you ever watch a home made video with music in it?
Have you ever watch a trailer there?

if so, you too are a thief.
And i'll assume you saw the mickey mouse image.
YouTube hosts the material, not you. That is why THEY receive the DMCA Takedown notice. With a torrent file, no one hosts the content, so they go after the users who actually download the file.

Also, copyright infringement has to be willful. I had no idea that Mickey Mouse image was there and I could easily prove in a court of law that I never intended to download it. You, on the other hand, would be the one in trouble, not DSLReports or anyone else who viewed it.
yes, youtube does host, but once you visit the site you are downloading copyright material. Yes, you are not intentionally doing it but you are. And you definitely are if you watch the videos.

If Justin fails to remove the image, then yes, DSLr is hosting pirated content.

My point: Copyrighted content is everywhere on the net, it's in your IM's, your email, your favorite forum/blog etc.

Where do you draw the line if you are talking sides with the **AA's?

You say im a thief if i download the DVD screener of the new Batman but you have no problem if i download a Mickey Mouse png file.

Where does it end?
--
There is no love untouched by hate
No unity without discord
There is no courage without fear
There is no peace without a war
There is no wisdom without regret
No admiration without scorn

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA


1 edit
Better yet!

DSLreports is hosting Illegal, copyright material i.e. mickey mouse image

Justin now has 1 strike. 2 more and DSLreports will be off line.

Furthermore, if you can see the MM image, you too, have just download illegal material. Strike 1 for you also.

avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ

Re: Whats the problem?

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

Better yet!

DSLreports is hosting Illegal, copyright material i.e. mickey mouse image

Justin now has 1 strike. 2 more and DSLreports will be off line.

Furthermore, if you can see the MM image, you too, have just download illegal material. Strike 1 for you also.
"Fair Use"?
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

Re: Whats the problem?


texasrobanon

@sbcglobal.net

Re: Whats the problem?

Is that a Captcha or a Pollock? Both copyrighted I suppose.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

1 edit
dupe
Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast

Aren't there distros out there that are completely covered under the GPL or similar licenses? Not to say that you couldn't add copyrighted software if you wanted to, but still...
--
"2 Strangers + 1 20 minute ceremony + $50 + 10 shots of tequila = Holy Matrimony and 1st Class Protections Under the Law… now that’s crazy!"

Raven

@ipv6lab.com

Re: Whats the problem?

Just because the entire distro is GPL doesn't mean that it doesn't break any rules. For example, you can play mp3s with gpl'ed software, but the MP3 container itself is patented, and shipping your linux distro with mp3 playback enabled without paying royalties is illegal. This is why Ubuntu ships with no mp3 playback support by default, I believe.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Re: Whats the problem?

It doesn't?

Mine came with Amarok which plays MP3.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
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Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
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I know I'm accused of being a thief.... I'll watch TV shows and (Gasp!) I'll *skip* the commercials!

OH and I have made backups before!

Gitmo here I come!
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Whats the problem?

sir drop the Fast Forward button and come out with your hands up.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Pizz
Hi

join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable

You really think thieves, care about this? They're using unsecured networks from end-users, to using custom hacked cable/dsl modems, with pre-configured bin files. They have bots setup, that distribute the content, so it doesnt get traced back to them. How you think all the illegal software/games/music/films get setup on these mediums.

Pirates who are savvy, will not care about Caps/Enforcement on the ISP level, because it doesnt effect them 1 iota.

PamelaTS

join:2004-04-20
Dallas, TX
·AT&T Southwest

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Only the thieves should be worried.
Not true the article also states that AT&T is experimenting with caps. No doubt an attempt to force those of us who REFUSE U-VERSE in favor of vanilla DSL and DirecTV/DISH I watch a lot of VOD from SmithsonianHD, MGMHD, SONYHD and others. Because HD content is larger I do have the ELITE Teir which lately has been experiencing more slow downs.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

We are all thieves in the eyes of the RIAA and MPAA. remember their Utopia is that in which we pay per use and TVs would have sensors that would pause the ads if it detected you getting up to use the can so you could still see the ad when you go back.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

yaright2323

@xspedius.net

won't work

This will just cause a better P2P system to be created by some software guru wanting to make a name for themselves. I have been using a SSH VPN tunnel to a server in Sweden to keep my ISP IP from showing on any trackers when using any P2P.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Re: won't work

Encryption is easy and free.
Since breaking encryption is illegal, want a copy of... something?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: won't work

it may be illegal but who says that can't throttle that?

Mega DETH
It's All About The Ping

join:2003-08-20
Watertown, WI

why bother

The only thing that will happen is these ISP's will lose customers, it won't stop anything.

They are foolish for agreeing to police....
--
"Action does not equal Achievement"

BramOn

@cox.net

Re: why bother

Yep, this is going to cost ISPs a lot of users. IF they have a service to go to. All to often the cable companies have locked down entire areas so they don't have to compete. I don't use P2P, except for Blizzard updates, even so I would switch to verizon in a second if it was available.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Law Suits Next?

customers will be suing next stating its their right to have access to everything and ISPs can't kill their connection.

There goes prices.
kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
clubs:

Re: Law Suits Next?

How about not having the right to kill connections from unsubstantiated accusations. If the RIAA has been losing court cases, they can't prove to the ISP that someone is guilty. Personally I don't listen to music except on the radio. And for $15 or less (the cost of actually going to the movies) you can buy the full blown DVD.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Law Suits Next?

I go to Family Video and them for $7 each-- DVDs.

But The ISP does reserve the right to kill your connection at any time if they wish. They don't need a "reason". Remember you only pay to rent that connection. Their network.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Why Comcast won't play: Verizon

Comcast -- a rabbit, with jet engines, and an over-caffeinated pilot -- that dies of a heart attack if you use it too much, and now that will spy on your activities for others?

C'mon, Comcast -- say it isn't so! You already know how terrible this content cartel is! Why would you want to prop up its eventual demise any longer? It makes your video service too expensive and limits the bundles you can offer your consumers. The CopyNoRight Act is outmoded and outdated and even perverted. Force it to adjust to the current world by staying out of this mess.

I really don't care for myself -- my favorite content isn't really in question here and I buy it anyway. I do care for the artists -- and ask my friends to support the art that they love even the public fights this out with the middlemen. But, either way, let's let both sides figure this out. Comcast, you don't want to be in the middle of this cross-fire! As for AT&T, seems they've never met a bad idea that they didn't publicly like! I don't believe anything they say until they do it.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Why Comcast won't play: Verizon

Until we have some actual proof that Comcast, AT&T or anyone else is actually going to drop customers, I'll remain skeptical. What kind of legal obligation do these ISP's have to follow? What if Comcast doesn't really drop any customers, but their competitors do?

Unless these same 3-strike users are also promoting network congestion on a frequent basis, I just don't see anyone voluntarily losing money over this. Financial gain has to be generated, or at least perceived to be created, at some point along this new process. I'm sure the intricacies will be identified and made public knowledge before too long. This kind of stuff always gets out.

funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: Why Comcast won't play: Verizon

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

What if Comcast doesn't really drop any customers, but their competitors do?
Brilliant! Dirty, but brilliant!

hw

@uiowa.edu

They already have. There's at least one thread in the Mediacom forum where someone's been terminated. In one case for sure, the first two strikes were actually for the same file (and same timestamp, so someone just sent the *same* complaint twice!)

I've just cancelled my service to basically preempt termination. I did not really ask what my 1st strike was for, the second about a month later, I had not run a thing since the first.. third, they do give one last chance to sign a form saying you won't do it again. I went ahead and cancelled.. I have a Verizon aircard already, which is fine for everything but large transfers (due to the 5GB cap).. if I can't use the cable for large transfers it's pointless for me to have it.

Reportedly, it was implemented at AT&T's insistence (AT&T is Mediacom's upstream provider). There's a thread regarding Sandvines (conclusion, Mediacom doesn't have one where the OP thought they did), which turned into a discussion regarding just this topic.

oldnewsagain

@mi.us
They have been doing this forever.
Legal demands gets word... out goes the letter to the subscriber.

Who cares. I use TOR!

topoopon

join:2001-11-20
Bensalem, PA
I LOVE me my FiOS!
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

How long before the class action suit.

On one hand I do not agree with giving away copyrighted works without the permission of the copyright holder. On the other hand, I hope that there will be a precedent setting lawsuit when the ISP's begin disconnecting innocent subscribers.

The ISP's do not have a good record of tracking dynamic IP assignments. They need to be held accountable for misidentifying subscribers. If I were to receive such a letter my ISP would be hearing from a lawyer.

ISP's should be required to set up a department like the abuse department to assist customers determine if their broadband connection has been hijacked. One of my neighbors has a unsecured wireless router. It would not be too hard for a neighbor to use their broadband connection for illegal activities.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: How long before the class action suit.

said by Mr Matt See Profile :

One of my neighbors has a unsecured wireless router. It would not be too hard for a neighbor to use their broadband connection for illegal activities.
Or someone joining my new-fangled ill-designed Femtocell and using MY broadband connection for their illegal activities.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...

bender
Bite my shiny metal ass
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
clubs:

ok..

we are not china here. we don't/shouldn't have our internet filtered/monitored. what a crock of ***t.
--
»www.crossloop.com/nealdaringer

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: ok..

No, we're America. We have everything monitored.

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online

Ahh.. When will they learn?

Yep.. They'll be facing problems like the ones overseas.

3 Strikes.. 1 Strike.. You're still losing customers.

..and what classifies "illegal"? They want P2P to completely die, even with the legal torrents out there. They want the technology to just go away.

The problem is.. It never will.
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|Mine[P4HT 3.2GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,WinXP]|Wife's[P4 2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,WinXP]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo]

bender
Bite my shiny metal ass
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
clubs:
·T-Mobile US
·Vonage
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
·Mediacom


1 edit

Re: Ahh.. When will they learn?

said by Simba7 See Profile :

They want the technology to just go away.

The problem is.. It never will.
thats because you can't kill cool.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Ahh.. When will they learn?

said by bender See Profile :

said by Simba7 See Profile :

They want the technology to just go away.

The problem is.. It never will.
thats because you can't kill cool.
It looks like cool is about to jump the sharks.

"I was with it once. Then they changed what it was. Where it went I don't know. Now what is it, is scary and weird. It will happen to you."

- Abe "Grandpa" Simpson, The Simpsons -
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast

Re: Ahh.. When will they learn?

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

said by bender See Profile :

said by Simba7 See Profile :

They want the technology to just go away.

The problem is.. It never will.
thats because you can't kill cool.
It looks like cool is about to jump the sharks.

"I was with it once. Then they changed what it was. Where it went I don't know. Now what is it, is scary and weird. It will happen to you."

- Abe "Grandpa" Simpson, The Simpsons -
No no Fonze don't jump those sharks
JazzJRabbit

join:2003-09-27
Wheaton, IL
·WOW Internet and C..

Consumers get shafted again

This new plan is a recipe for disaster for consumers.

1. How do you deal with false accusations? I bet ISPs won't be too accommodating, they just won't have the manpower to deal with it. And while we are at that, just HOW a customer is supposed to prove he is innocent? It's a case RIAA said you're guilty so you must be. How can you argue that?

2. How do you keep track of violations through different ISPs. Say a person got 3 strikes with one ISP and switches to a different one. The new provider doesn't know that the person had 3 strikes already, unless of course **AA will facilitate data sharing between providers, even more data mining on your private data.

3. How do you keep track of violations anyway. Do you keep track by SSN, by First Name/Last Name, by Family Name, by address? I can already imagine the calls:
-I'm sorry sir, but someone at your address have violated copyright three times
-But I didn't move into this apartment until a week ago
-Sorry sir, but there is nothing I can do

4. So real world scenario. A family has children using filesharing services. They get first notice, they smack children on the head, but not hard enough. Children continue and get caught again. Second notice. Now the kids are in real trouble so they stop sharing. But, the system fails and sends the family third notice. They are now cut off because of a mistake in the system. What now? No one in the family can ever get internet service again? The only real way I see is wiping out strikes from record that are older than so many years. But is it going to happen? I think that's unlikely.

In short, this will be a system with zero oversight, prone to abuse and real people will get the shafted... again.

tidal
Tidal
Premium
join:2001-01-18
Madison, AL

Maybe a good switch?

Maybe it was a good idea to switch to Knology Cable. I can get phone/internet/cable for the same price I'm paying AT&T for phone/internet.

I'll be the first to admit I like to download tv shows and this would affect me.

TCub
Premium
join:2008-09-03
Olmsted Falls, OH
clubs:
·Cox HSI

Time to cash in.

I'm surprised there no one has started a telco thats pirate friendly. Of course they wouldn't advertise it is that but they could call it something on the lines of "privacy". They could give high speed connections at competitive rates and guarantee they won't snoop around your connection.

Of course this would most likely never happen because of things like child porn. It's really a shame to see things like this happen.
--
And if you go, furious angels will bring you back to me.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Re: Time to cash in.

There is an ISP that is pirate friendly. It's called Verizon.

TCub
Premium
join:2008-09-03
Olmsted Falls, OH
clubs:

Re: Time to cash in.

I was thinking about that. I did see they weren't giving into the RIAA's demands. I wonder how long it will last. And maybe once the list comes out of ISP's doing the 3 strikes thing they should start advertising that they don't do that.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Re: Time to cash in.

If memory serves me correct they did lose the lawsuits and appeals the last time. I haven't really kept up.
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast

Ya
"we'll act like we're going with the flow of other ISP's publicly (ie set caps, say we're doing this and that) but really just be a safe Harbor with tons of peering and an awsome backbone as we watch the others be absorbed as they can't handle being broke"

NowVOIP
In the beginning there was POTS

join:2006-03-05
Round Lake, IL
·AT&T U-Verse

Yawn!

And so begins another chapter in the battle of P2P piracy and the RIAA. In the end the priates will win, just as they always have. Did the lawsuits, stop piracy? NO! If an ISP cuts off a connection the user wil lsimply move on to another ISP in their area. And lets not forget, as the RIAA and MPAA efforts to track pirates has stepped up so have the pirates efforts to go undetected. All it takes is another P2P app with another new design that changes packets and game set match, the next battle in the war goes to P2P piracy.

As i side not, I do not share or use P2P networks, however it has been and still is my stance to this day that these networks are not illegal. The simple fact is no one sharing the music or movies is making a profit, they are simply sharing their enjoyment with others. I see nothing wrong with this, especaially when you go to the store buy a CD and out of 12 songs, 2 if any are good.
--
The revolution will be televised!
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Terrible idea!!!

Some of you really do not get the impact this is going to have on the US economy and especially online sales organizations.

I posted this to another forum post but it works here too.

I don't think the RIAA/MPAA has thought their dastardly plan out very well. In most households there are multiple people. Lets say you have Mom, Dad, Sis, and little Bro all using the home broadband connection. Mom and Dad are upstanding citizens and use the web for reading online newspapers and ordering Netflix and Amazon stuff. Sis used the broadband to buy ridiculous amounts of itunes songs and uses Facebook like her life depended on it. Little Bro is the MMORPG gamer and resident MUSIC PIRATE! Oh teh noes! Little Bro is a content thief! Say it isn't so!

So Little Bro gets "three strikes" and he's (along with his whole family is) out. So now just because the RIAA/MPAA doesn't get their pound of flesh from Little Bro who HAS NO SPARE LUNCH MONEY to spend on RIAA/MPAA products anyway and since he's a pirate he was never going to buy anything from the RIAA/MPAA in the first place. RESULT: Now all the other people in the house and all the potential money companies could have made off of Mom, Dad, and Sis can now not happen because this families web has been cut off?

I think that Amazon, Netflix and all the potential sales recipients for this family might have something to say about this three strikes plan to the content cops and the ISP. If I were Amazon, Walmart, Netflix, a bank or a brokerage firm I would fight this tooth and nail!

This three strikes plan is not even good for the RIAA/MPAA who could still be making money from all these online sales organizations who are being used by the others in the household.

100% stupidity.

anonymiss

@comcast.net

Re: Terrible idea!!!

This is no different then Little Johnny getting a cellphone and racking up a $1000 monthly bill because he uses it far to much.

What you're saying is parents should give up being parents and expect the school, and companies, and the government to raise them for you.

Sorry,your kids, your job to keep an eye on them and raise them.

What you describe is just lazy parenting, and any parent doing such a poor job probably NEEDS to lose their internet so they HAVE to spend some time with the children they obviously haven't spent enough time with anyway.
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Re: Terrible idea!!!

You are only looking at this from the families perspective. Which is NOT the point I was making. My point was, there is more money for an online sales organization to make out of every household than just the single music pirate in a household containing more than just that pirate.

I in fact agree with you that managing the pirate in the house is the parents job. That does not change the fact that this three strikes law punishes more than the pirate. It punished the people in the house who ARE NOT pirates. And if I were an "Amazon" or a "Apple" I would still want the NON-pirates in that house to still beable to use the internet and spend money.

Read a little closer next time, ok?
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Re: Terrible idea!!!

I forgot to list the biggest loss again. BANKS and the STOCK MARKET. What would the global economic impact be that DAD the day trader cannot actually DAT TRADE because Comcast cut off the internet to a house just because Little Johnny was pirating music.

THE INTERNET IS NOT ONLY USED FOR MUSIC!

The RIAA and MPAA need to keep this in mind when making these ISP's dance to their tune.

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
·HughesNet Satellit..

Street Vendors

Here they come...

They think it's bad now, wait till these places get a true taste of what it's like to have people leave their ISP's in the 100's of thousands.

I guarantee you the street vendors will increase and the underground copying market will capitalize on this. Preferring instead to sell their wares on bus stop corners, illegal shops, schools, and wherever else they think they might find starving buyers.

Just the other day I saw a dude out in sub-zero weather near my apartment selling flea-market goods in the parking lot from his Escalade. I grabbed my binoculars, and couldn't see anything other than what appeared to be a small handfull of cd's on the tiny spindle, he handed the guy $20, and he jumped in and drove off, he had an expired paper plate in his back window, and no metal plate. He was wearing a ski mask. My girlfriend and I laughed our asses off after having seen this. I resigned as neighborhood watch captain a few years back because the police and management around here like to snub watch programs in this neck of the woods for some reason. Go figure.
--
Would you like your ISP to govern how much you can use the web in a month? Well it might happen if we don't do something NOW! »www.ipetitions.com/petition/PMDBI/

Truth Seeker

@telus.net

Will open the door, and destroy Net Neutrality

This is the Business as Usual..

towards destroying Net Neutrality

just watch how the pretend to protect

and become they (ATT, etal) oppressors, its all about the power/money of controling the net

and the freedom is GONE poof,

lawyertime

@bellsouth.net

money for lawyers

If this deal goes through then it means that att and crapcast are responsible for the content going through their networks and can be held liable by the copyright holder. The copyright holder can call their lawyer and sue att and or crapcast and stand a much better chance of getting some compensation for their "loss" since those companies have a lot of money as in millions where as little billy doesn't even have 30 cents and mom/dad whoever is still trying to pay their way out of the underwater mortgage crisis. What else can they do to mom/dad/joe blow? put them in jail? That still doesn't get any money paid to copyright holders so they are still out of their money plus what they had to pay their lawyer to go after someone. Sue the proper party responsible aka the isp since they are now trying to claim responsibility for whats going through their networks.

This is the gold rush of the 21st century and only lawyers are invited.

mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Good luck

On working on offshore stuff, haha.

CBLMorphis

join:2001-02-25
Riverside, CA

Re: Good luck

YAY Newgroups FTW. Glad I have a newsgroup account.

i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS

rayray

i will just back to buying bootleg copies from rayray again..

winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:

Notice Of Pending Action from the RIAA

Dear customer,

it has come to our attention that your Internet Services have been instrumental in the illegal copy and/or distribution of copyrighted material. This is considered a serious offense. We also have records that these incidents have occurred multiple times over the course of several months.

Our legal department has contacted your Internet Service Provider, as the beginning of legal action which will be taken against your for these illegal activities. As a result, your Internet connection will be deactivated within the next few days. This is necessary to prevent further distribution of copyrighted material.

If you disagree with this notice of intent, please go to the following website to initiate a petition against the currently actions noted earlier.

(insert trojan installing / phishing / identity stealing website of your choice here)

If you do not respond to this notice of intent, the aforementioned actions will proceed without delay.

Signed,

Recording Industry Association of America
--
"Suddenly everything is fainting, falling from a broken ladder's rung. There's a jolt exhilarating from the phone I'm holding...I hear the words of what I'll become, how eager the hands that reach for love." - Blind Melon - New Life
Forums » AT&T, Comcast Part Of RIAA's New 3 Strikes Planpage: 1 · 2


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