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story category Small ISPs Revolt Against ESPN360 Model
One WISP considers boycott or class action suit...
(old news - 12:52PM Thursday Feb 12 2009)
tags: competition · trouble · content · net-neutrality
Tipped by Steve See Profile
As we just discussed, there's a renewed interest in ESPN's two year quest to hoist the TV industry business model upon the broadband industry, by striking deals with ISPs for their ESPN360 broadband video service -- instead of individual customers. Some see this as an infraction of network neutrality -- which it isn't -- unless the service doesn't count against ISP caps. It is potentially bad business, given ESPN is marginalizing and annoying a lot of potential customers. Interestingly, ESPN seems to think the solution to broadening adoption is by urging ISP customers to switch carriers by showing the following alert to users on non-partner ISPs:
Click for full size
ESPN360.com is available at no charge to fans who receive their high-speed internet connection from an ESPN360.com affiliated internet service provider. ESPN360.com is also available to fans that access the internet from U.S. college campuses and U.S. military bases. Your current computer network falls outside of these categories -- Switch to an ESPN360.com affiliated internet service provider or to contact your internet service provider and request ESPN360.com.
ESPN's business model here assumes that the content ESPN is offering is so compelling that it will force users to change carriers. It also assumes that most people have a choice of carriers, when many still only have access to one ISP. With more and more people signing up for triple or double play offers -- and signing with carriers based on introductory discounts -- it's also unlikely that people will be willing to ditch their current deals for some additional sports video content.

In other words, the market will probably kill this as a bad idea in time -- but it still raises some interesting questions. With ESPN striking deals primarily with larger carriers, one interesting thing this may do is make life even harder for the smaller ISPs and WISPs that have already been kicked, beaten and bruised by a national regulatory policy that favors large carriers. According to a small WISP operator in our forums who called ESPN to check on the service, smaller carriers can expect to pay more than large carriers for the privilege of offering the service.

"The fee per customer for a small ISP like myself would be $0.79 per user, but would be substantially less for a larger one," notes user SuperWISP See Profile (aka Brett Glass, operator of Wyoming WISP Lariet.net). "So, our large competitors would have to raise their rates less per customer than smaller ISPs, giving them a big advantage, he says. "ESPN also seems not to realize that ISPs' margins are tiny as it is -- I make about $2.50 per month on a basic residential customer now, and so their fee would take an outrageous 1/3 of my profit."

Glass, who is traditionally an outspoken critic of network neutrality legislation, suggests either boycotting ESPN, or filing a class action lawsuit against the sports giant for "tortious interference with contract."

While the idea that this currently violates network neutrality may not be an accurate statement yet, that doesn't mean ESPN's model is a good idea, or good for this industry. Assuming this business model caught on, each ISP would have to pay content creators individually to offer users access to content, and the nation's largest carriers would pay less. Worse, you could clearly expect the endless rate hikes you see with cable television now applied to your broadband bill -- on top of any successful efforts to implement metered billing.

Though big ISPs could obviously just pass costs on to consumers, not all large carriers are playing along with ESPN. Back when ESPN started trying this in 2006, Cox told the New York Times they wouldn't be playing along. "Exclusivity is one of many competitive strategies to consider, and you have to be very thoughtful about it," said Cox's Bob Wilson. "Otherwise you and your competitors can end up just trying to ‘out-exclusive’ each other, and all you accomplish is bidding up your costs and making the content providers rich."

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Forums » Small ISPs Revolt Against ESPN360 Model
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pnh102
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baineschile
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2 edits

Nightmares of the Big Ten Network

The Big Ten network did the EXACT same thing. Having a parent company buy big games and give them to a smaller network....on TV or in the internet; Then charge TV providers up the whazoo for broadcasting rights for the small network.

I hope my friends in the PAC10/ACC/Big12/BigEast/SEC never have to deal with this.

Aside from having a game now and then, will anyone actually watch espn360 on their computer?

dadkins
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Re: Nightmares of the Big Ten Network

said by baineschile See Profile :

Aside from having a game now and then, will anyone actually watch espn360 on their computer?
HTPC?
HDMI to the TV?
Wireless laptop away from TV room?

Not that I will do it, but someone might want it.
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said by baineschile See Profile :

The Big Ten network did the EXACT same thing. Having a parent company buy big games and give them to a smaller network....on TV or in the internet; Then charge TV providers up the whazoo for broadcasting rights for the small network.

I hope my friends in the PAC10/ACC/Big12/BigEast/SEC never have to deal with this.

Aside from having a game now and then, will anyone actually watch espn360 on their computer?
Yes, because you in essence get ESPN Game Plan for free! Why pay $25 a weekend (or buy the full season) when you can watch it on your computer for basically free?

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1 edit

Re: Nightmares of the Big Ten Network

The problem is Disney likes to twist arms with ESPN. So I imagine soon we will ALL be paying more for a select few to have another form of ESPN flowing to them.

Honestly they should move ESPN and all sports programming to pay channels and let those who want to watch the channels pay for the programming content. Those massive contracts that the leagues get for broadcasting rights should not be paid for by people who don't watch the crap.

As a whole, I think sports teams should have to pay a 100% health care tax on every single penny earned. Why should the American public have to pay once for the games via a portion of their cable bill, then pay again later when the people who shoveled lard coated fat logs down during the games on TV have their grabbers and get rushed to the ER where they find out they don't have insurance and well...the taxpayers get to eat that bill again...

Edit - clarity
cyclone_z

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f*** big ten network. hell, f*** big ten.

funchords
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The irony is amazing.

Brett Glass, SuperWISP See Profile, wants to force ESPN360 not to interfere with the relationship between user and ISP.

However, he is totally against any Net Neutrality regulation that would prevent ISPs from interfering with the relationships between users and their own chosen destinations on the net.
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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by funchords See Profile :

Brett Glass, SuperWISP See Profile, wants to force ESPN360 not to interfere with the relationship between user and ISP.

However, he is totally against any Net Neutrality regulation that would prevent ISPs from interfering with the relationships between users and their own chosen destinations on the net.
Ha ha, now that *IS* funny Robb.

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Re: The irony is amazing.

Whats realy funny is this:

I get that message, but according to ESPN360.com my ISP Insight Communications, permits me to have access, but the ISP portion is realy just TWC RR, rebranded as insight's (insight.rr.com) so im assuming RR, or TWC doesnt have a deal with them?
DannyZ
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Re: The irony is amazing.

I'm on TWC RR and I don't get the message

OSUGoose

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Re: The irony is amazing.

lol, yet again insight users are a second class citizen
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Re: The irony is amazing.

Not all customers that can get the service gets any message.

I have access to it but i don't get any messages.

Also you are free to use RoadRunner via Time Warner as well

OSUGoose

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Re: The irony is amazing.

um no seeing how on this side of columbus its insight or wow. Next time before you spout off, know the area. It be very fulish for twc to let insight sell rr, in the same neighborhood they do.
hottboiinnc
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Re: The irony is amazing.

No it wouldn't. TWC would make money either way. Insight pays RoadRunner for that access. The customer could also pay TWC direct for the RR service. It works the same way with CLECS. IF you don't pay the ILEC direct you still pay them some how because they have to lease the lines.

If you wanted to be treated the same was as RoadRunner customers on the TWC side why not move to the area that has TWC and as you claim won't be treated as a 2nd class citizen even though TWC and RR are separate companies. RR is just the ISP part.

james

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said by OSUGoose See Profile :

It be very fulish for twc to let insight sell rr, in the same neighborhood they do.
ful me once, shame on you,
ful me twice...shame...shame on...cant get fuled again.

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said by funchords See Profile :

Brett Glass, SuperWISP See Profile, wants to force ESPN360 not to interfere with the relationship between user and ISP.

However, he is totally against any Net Neutrality regulation that would prevent ISPs from interfering with the relationships between users and their own chosen destinations on the net.
I think you may be reading into his statement a little to far?. Your chosen destination is not the issue. The type of traffic your usage generates and the ability of the ISP to use shaping techniques is his main concern. Every ISP will always do some type of network management, as we have seen in the past by the tactics employed by Comcast.

I think his main concern is that the FCC will stop them from using any type of shaping/throttling at all. If this happens, a lot of smaller carriers will be forced out of business, especially WISP's. If that happens?, a lot of users will loose their broadband connection, as most WISP's, (myself included) serve mostly rural areas that would have no other option if we were to close our doors.

I personally shape traffic, but do not discern what type of traffic it is. In other words, I could care less whether or not it is P2P, gaming etc. If you are a network hog or heavy user, your packets will go through, albeit at a slower rate.
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1 edit

Re: The irony is amazing.

said by superdog See Profile :

Every ISP will always do some type of network management, as we have seen in the past by the tactics employed by Comcast.
What we learned was that most ISPs did not use such tactics.

said by superdog See Profile :

I think his main concern is that the FCC will stop them from using any type of shaping/throttling at all. If this happens, a lot of smaller carriers will be forced out of business, especially WISP's. If that happens?, a lot of users will loose their broadband connection, as most WISP's, (myself included) serve mostly rural areas that would have no other option if we were to close our doors.
There is a lot of sensitivity to this particular concern -- and it's not only mine, but the people in DC who are interested in NN are not at all interested in affecting small ISPs that actually create competition.

That said, we continue to have no data about the impacts of traffic requiring discrimination. But even if we did, isn't it better to let the market sort it out when it is possible? It's generally agreed that if we had great competition, we wouldn't even be talking about NN regulation.

My particular view is that any regulation ought to have either an exemption or a study period for alternative ISPs (providing rural or competing services to the advantaged monopolistic incumbent providers). That's my view -- not a position shared by anyone in particular, but the folks that I work with seem to also be both very pro-competition and pro-rural and are not interested in making your lives any more difficult than they already are.
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Robb seems perfectly willing to make false and in fact slanderous statements about me and my business practices to further his crusade to regulate the Internet. To see my actual point of view, read my testimony from the FCC hearing at »www.brettglass.com/FCC/remarks.html.

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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

Robb seems perfectly willing to make false and in fact slanderous statements about me and my business practices to further his crusade to regulate the Internet.
Nice charge, now cite the false and slanderous statements I've made about you.
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1 edit

Re: The irony is amazing.

said by funchords See Profile :

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

Robb seems perfectly willing to make false and in fact slanderous statements about me and my business practices to further his crusade to regulate the Internet.
Nice charge, now cite the false and slanderous statements I've made about you.
You mean completely false BS like this?

quote:
Several people who have spoken before this Commission and before Congress have claimed that Internet service is the province of a cable/telco "duopoly" which must be reined in by regulations to keep it from exploiting its market power. Fortunately, as of the moment, this is not true. Estimates vary, but most agree that there are between 4,000 and 8,000 small, independent, competitive ISPs such as ourselves. These small operators need to be nurtured, protected from anticompetitive behavior, and given an opportunity to grow.

The "hot button" issue in the recent hearings has been ISPs' throttling or blocking of so-called "P2P" activities, including those carried on via software such as GNUtella, BitTorrent, eDonkey, and KaZaA. Because my time here is brief, I've summarized the situation in two slides. Here, in the first slide, you see the way that content and services are normally delivered on the Internet. The provider of the content or service sets up a server -- usually in a building called a "server farm" -- where Internet bandwidth is cheap and plentiful. The information travels across the Internet backbone and reaches the ISP, which pays much higher prices for bandwidth -- often as much as $300 per megabit per second per month. (By the way, these prices have lately been increasing -- not decreasing -- due to mergers and consolidation in the backbone market.) The ISP also maintains the expensive infrastructure that connects users to the backbone. The user pays the ISP to do this. This situation fulfills the implicit contract of the Internet which has been in place ever since it stopped being the government funded ARPAnet: everyone buys his or her connection to the backbone.

In the second slide, you see what happens when you have P2P. In this case, the content or service provider doesn't pay its full freight for connectivity to the backbone. Instead, it turns the users' computers into servers, which in turn distribute its content or services. And users often don't even know that this is occurring. All they know is that they installed the "downloading software" or other software that let them access the product.

This situation is great for the content provider; its bandwidth costs are reduced to nearly zero. And the customer -- who in the United States virtually always has flat rate service -- doesn't pay any more, because the service is flat rate. So, where do the bandwidth costs go? The answer: they are dumped on the ISP. What's more, because the ISP -- especially a rural ISP, but it applies to all of them -- pays much more per megabit to buy bandwidth and deliver it to customers, the costs are not only shifted but multiplied several hundredfold in the process. It's obvious to anyone that this isn't fair and it isn't in any way "neutral." The content provider is, in essence, setting up a server on the ISP's network without permission and without compensation. This is why ISPs virtually always prohibit P2P and also the operation of servers on residential connections by contract. Our contract with our users says this, and we fully disclose it; we do not hide it. If someone does want to operate servers on our network, we can offer him or her "business grade" bandwidth, for which we charge a fair price that takes these extra costs into account. But P2P makes the bottom lines of such companies as Vuze look better, so of course they want to mandate that it be allowed on all connections -- no matter how non-neutral this is or what harm it does to ISPs.
Pal, let's face it: you were arguing AGAINST network neutrality, using BS points, only to try to grab another load of money at the end, for the same thing you're already getting paid - delivering X amount of bits per second, that is.
Then you turn around and claiming the same thing cannot be applied for people who might can use this leverage against you the same way you want to use it against your own customers.

This topic here alone PERFECTLY CONFIRMS funchords' sarcastic reference to your nonexistent morals.
--
said by bicker See Profile :

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
SuperWISP

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Re: The irony is amazing.

Thank you for both quoting me out of context and making false statements about my views and intentions.

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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

Oh, I see. I'm obviously greedy and e-vile because my life's mission is to extend access to the Internet to people who would otherwise never get it -- and reap a very paltry reward for doing so (far less than if I'd invested my money and time in, say, real estate). And I must obviously be regulated out of business, because no ISP can ever possibly be good or even decent. NOT.
Agreed, some of the attacks on you here assume too much and are not fair, like the accusation that you're greedy.

You certainly are a mean old prick who cannot be civil with anyone you disagree with. But I don't think you're greedy. In fact, I admire some things about you in spite of yourself. But you are, in fact, a very unkindly fellow.

And you're, in fact, the only guy throwing around the false accusations that all of us liars and perjurors and lobbyists somehow want to regulate WISPs out of business. Fortunately, you've immortalized yourself on every article on the subject -- most people read you very clearly -- they read you like a comic book.

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

Thank you for both quoting me out of context and making false statements about my views and intentions.
Ah, there you go again.
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said by funchords See Profile :

Brett Glass, SuperWISP See Profile, wants to force ESPN360 not to interfere with the relationship between user and ISP.

However, he is totally against any Net Neutrality regulation that would prevent ISPs from interfering with the relationships between users and their own chosen destinations on the net.
Let me say it so you don't have to: it's called a greeedy PoS character with no integrity whatsoever.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by kamm See Profile :

Let me say it so you don't have to: it's called a greeedy PoS character with no integrity whatsoever.
Hmmmmm...... You know the man personally, or is this something you deduced by reading a few paragraphs?
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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by superdog See Profile :

said by kamm See Profile :

Let me say it so you don't have to: it's called a greeedy PoS character with no integrity whatsoever.
Hmmmmm...... You know the man personally, or is this something you deduced by reading a few paragraphs?
If you don't understand funchords' post then just come out and ask for help.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by kamm See Profile :

If you don't understand funchords' post then just come out and ask for help.
I am thinking that perhaps you don't understand my question?. Funchords has a right to his opinion (as do you), and he voiced his based upon what he read (obviously?). At least he backed up his response with some facts. How are you basing yours?. If all you are doing is making a deduction based upon reading someone else's paragraph?, perhaps you need the help in understanding a simple question?, have you done any research to base your insults, or are you simply hitting auto quote adding your .02 to simply take up server space.
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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by superdog See Profile :

said by kamm See Profile :

If you don't understand funchords' post then just come out and ask for help.
I am thinking that perhaps you don't understand my question?. Funchords has a right to his opinion (as do you), and he voiced his based upon what he read (obviously?). At least he backed up his response with some facts. How are you basing yours?.
OUCH.
Ummm perhaps the facts you just admitted he posted...?



quote:
If all you are doing is making a deduction based upon reading someone else's paragraph?, perhaps you need the help in understanding a simple question?,

Or perhaps you need to get out a little bit more, out of your WISP lair nad realize that people DO SHARE opinions, facts, they interact, they reach conclusions based on each others' experiences...?

You know, there's this thing called social life - in this case someone points out something obviously disgusting strain in someone's character and then I post the bold conclusion.

Amazing interaction, huh?

have you done any research to base your insults, or are you simply hitting auto quote adding your .02 to simply take up server space.
So again: which part of our post-reply cycle with funchords you still cannot grasp?

Seriously, I can't believe I had to explain this...
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

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said by kamm See Profile :

Let me say it so you don't have to: it's called a greeedy PoS character with no integrity whatsoever.
Making $2.50/mo per subscriber is the definition of greed?

This is the quintessential comment that highlights the absurdity of posts in these forums.
wentlanc
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Re: The irony is amazing.

said by espaeth See Profile :

said by kamm See Profile :

Let me say it so you don't have to: it's called a greeedy PoS character with no integrity whatsoever.
Making $2.50/mo per subscriber is the definition of greed?
No, an ISP making money is not greed. A content provider forcing an ISP to collect from ALL users merely for the "right" to have access for a website IS greed. They know that they could get more money if they partner with the ISP, and the ISP will collect on their money for them.

You start billing me for a service that I will NEVER use, and I will cancel your service.

cw
SuperWISP

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While ESPN360's tactics are not a violation of anyone's definition of "network neutrality" (though this may change, because the "net neutrality" zealots seem to be expanding their definitions daily), they do have the same goal as "network neutrality" regulation: to shift costs from content providers to ISPs.

"Network neutrality" regulation -- which is not "neutral" at all because it favors content providers over ISPs -- does this by forcing ISPs to allow bandwidth costs to be shifted from content providers to ISPs. (See my testimony at »www.brettglass.com/FCC/remarks.html for an explanation of this, complete with graphics.)

ESPN360, on the other hand, is trying to shift costs to ISPs by forcing them to actually pay it money.

So, ESPN360's tactics and "network neutrality" have these things in common. They are both being foisted on ISPs by large corporations in an attempt to shake them down for money, and if successful will both cause broadband to become more expensive.

Robb, you're a "consultant" to the lobbying group Free Press, which is well known to be lobbying on behalf of the agenda of content provider Google. So, in essence, you're a shill for the content providers here.

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3 edits

Re: ESPN360: Boycott and possible class action lawsuit

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

While ESPN360's tactics are not a violation of anyone's definition of "network neutrality" (though this may change, because the "net neutrality" zealots seem to be expanding their definitions daily), they do have the same goal as "network neutrality" regulation: to shift costs from content providers to ISPs.
Brett, get off of of the "shift costs from content providers to ISPs" motive. It's not only inaccurate, it makes you shrill. The NN team doesn't care about shifting costs. It cares about special deals and treatment. Feel free to bring it up as a consequence when appropriate, but you sound like a net.kook when you just throw around mud.

Since ESPN360 isn't "the network," then it cannot -- by definition -- have any bearing on its neutrality (small 'n' in this case). But, yeah, this NN stuff morphs because just as there can be non-neutral network behaviors there certainly can be non-neutral economic ones. That's where Net Neutrality leaves the technical realm. This is the part that seems to morph.

But, technical or economic, these are all framed in the context of carriage.

Would what a content provider does affect anything in the NN space? Actually, Yes, I worry that it could -- but you have to look at it from the other side of the contract: who's on the other end of the horn?

Think about it: whose the content provider making the deal with -- the ISP! So now there's an economic reason to prioritize (or protect) certain "premium" traffic. That stinks!

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

Robb, you're a "consultant" to the lobbying group Free Press, which is well known to be lobbying on behalf of the agenda of content provider Google. So, in essence, you're a shill for the content providers here.
I shill for no one. Hell, on this topic, I'm closer to your position than the other side! (And there you go again with your kooky accusations -- Google's support for NN doesn't make the NN-groups advocates for Google's entire agenda.)

I've been pretty outspoken about Viacom's New Year's Eve attempt to shake down Cable ISPs for their customers' access to its sites -- ESPN360's model is only slightly different, and regardless of any position of my clients (they've not taken one AFAIK), I'm not a fan of an ISP-based subscription model. That puts my views rather aligned with your interests (and that's not the first time).

And even though I share your disapproval of this kind of business model, I still think it's amazingly ironic that you, in particular, think ESPN360 ought to be forced to do anything with their private site. Now that's entertainment!
--
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SuperWISP

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Re: ESPN360: Boycott and possible class action lawsuit

Robb:

No one here should take your remarks seriously, since you have never been in the business of actually providing people with broadband service and obviously don't have the foggiest idea of what it entails. Cost shifting is a huge concern, especially when -- as is the case with P2P -- costs are not only shifted to ISPs but multiplied one hundredfold in the process.

You had your 15 minutes of fame when FCC Chairman Kevin Martin used you as a pawn in his vendetta against the cable companies. (He had you testify -- but not under oath and with no cross-examination, which would have demolished the many false statements you made -- and then quoted your network neutrality zealotry almost verbatim in the resulting order.)

It's time for you to quit your crusade to regulate ISPs, as you have zero actual knowledge or credibility in this field. You and the other jihaadists who are preaching regulation of the Internet should simply crawl back under the rock from which you emerged. All consumers will be thankful, and will have better and less expensive Internet service.

kamm

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Re: ESPN360: Boycott and possible class action lawsuit

said by SuperWISP See Profile :

Robb:

No one here should take your remarks seriously, since you have never been in the business of actually providing people with broadband service and obviously don't have the foggiest idea of what it entails. Cost shifting is a huge concern, especially when -- as is the case with P2P -- costs are not only shifted to ISPs but multiplied one hundredfold in the process.

You had your 15 minutes of fame when FCC Chairman Kevin Martin used you as a pawn in his vendetta against the cable companies. (He had you testify -- but not under oath and with no cross-examination, which would have demolished the many false statements you made -- and then quoted your network neutrality zealotry almost verbatim in the resulting order.)

It's time for you to quit your crusade to regulate ISPs, as you have zero actual knowledge or credibility in this field. You and the other jihaadists who are preaching regulation of the Internet should simply crawl back under the rock from which you emerged. All consumers will be thankful, and will have better and less expensive Internet service.
The fact that you show up here to practice very thing he just did to you sans providing evidence about his rotten morals - the way he did about you, BTW -, this action alone shows how badly we HAVE TO REGULATE YOU GUYS, in order to prevent your GREED-dictated ABUSE of the internet.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]
SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

Re: ESPN360: Boycott and possible class action lawsuit

Oh, I see. I'm obviously greedy and e-vile because my life's mission is to extend access to the Internet to people who would otherwise never get it -- and reap a very paltry reward for doing so (far less than if I'd invested my money and time in, say, real estate). And I must obviously be regulated out of business, because no ISP can ever possibly be good or even decent. NOT.
bugabuga

join:2004-06-10
Austin, TX

Just like CNN used to do with mobile

A while ago CNN Mobile was doing something similar. If you tried to access their wap version, it'd say "Your carrier has not signed up for this feature, please call support" if the IP address was not recognized as one of their "partners".
Of course that restriction was later removed.
--
Странные новости почти каждый день

See 9 replies to this post

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA

Espn is free to try,

and equally as well, is free to FAIL!
--
The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!

See 18 replies to this post

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:

ESPN

quote:
ESPN's business model here assumes that the content ESPN is offering is so compelling that it will force users to change carriers.
It's not.
HoboJ

join:2008-03-27
Trenton, ON
·voip.ms
·Cogeco Cable

Silly Content Providers

What all those content providers should do is band together and offer a subscription service to those who want it. I'd totally dig it.

None of this turning ISP's into TV providers.
AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

Confused...

ISPs really pay money for this? Seriously?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Confused...

said by AVonGauss See Profile :

ISPs really pay money for this? Seriously?
They don't.

You do, in the form of higher subscription fees. If this takes off, just wait until every other website that you don't care about insists on your ISP paying up.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA

ESPN is to sports...

...what MTV is to music.

I know this has very little to do with the discussion, but ESPN's sports content is bottom-of-the-barrel. It's the tabloid of sports. They're not looking for the die-hard sports fan, who knows better, they're looking for the casual fan, which is why this arrangement makes sense for them.

dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29

Re: ESPN is to sports...

MTV plays music? When did they go back to that.

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA

Re: ESPN is to sports...

Never. And there's not much real sports on ESPN either. Actually, I think if they switched content for 24 hours, nobody would even notice.
MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

This actually makes sense

So far, everyone is accustomed to getting everything for free on the web - news, sports, stock quotes, etc. But, this is really being subsidized by other channels such as newspapers and cable TV. As these are dying off, the content providers will need to make money from somewhere. I for one do not want to subscribe to a whole lot of sites with a whole lot of passwords and monthly charges. I would prefer if my ISP provided a complete set of services included in my ISP bill. This is no different that the way I pay for cable. The services could include: News, Sports, Computer Backup, etc.

Ultimately, there is going to have to be some sort of revenue model other than advertising for this content. If not, the quality will go down or the content will disappear.

My two cents.

See 7 replies to this post

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

It's easy: just let ESPN rot in the hole they're digging...

...and never order this service, period.

It's recession and people will just live fine without ordering a greedy MF corporations' crooked service anyway.

See you in hell, PoS ESPN.

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


1 edit

Re: It's easy: just let ESPN rot in the hole they're digging...

quote:
...and never order this service, period
Nobody can order it. That's the problem.

I don't have a choice but to subscribe. I'm on AT&T U-verse who supports this crap. I'm pretty sure Time Warner does too. My third-party options are much slower and that would be like shooting myself in the foot.

79 cents per month per sub is CRAZY! People who are interested in this stuff should pay a reasonable fee for it. People who are not, should not be footing the bill.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US

Re: It's easy: just let ESPN rot in the hole they're digging...

said by djrobx See Profile :

quote:
...and never order this service, period
Nobody can order it. That's the problem.

I don't have a choice but to subscribe. I'm on AT&T U-verse who supports this crap. I'm pretty sure Time Warner does too. My third-party options are much slower and that would be like shooting myself in the foot.

79 cents per month per sub is CRAZY! People who are interested in this stuff should pay a reasonable fee for it. People who are not, should not be footing the bill.
I meant service from an ISP that signed up for this crap....
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Not that I cared, not available in my area

No ISP that I can get carries them.

Oh well, too bad. F 'em.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US

Re: Not that I cared, not available in my area

said by Eat Me See Profile :

No ISP that I can get carries them.

Oh well, too bad. F 'em.
I like your attitude.
bctc
Premium
join:2008-09-03
Delton, MI

small isp -- total bs

I work at a small ISP and it only took about 2 weeks to get up and running with Disney and ESPN360. It costs us nothing (or next to nothing, I forget). The idea that this program somehow hurts small businesses is nothing short of ridiculous.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage

Re: small isp -- total bs

Costs the ISP nothing, for now.

Just like certain cable channels when they first came out were paying cable operators to carry them, now when they've become entrenched they are collecting fees from the cable operators and raise the fees every time the contract is renewed.
older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY

said by bctc See Profile :

I work at a small ISP and it only took about 2 weeks to get up and running with Disney and ESPN360. It costs us nothing (or next to nothing, I forget). The idea that this program somehow hurts small businesses is nothing short of ridiculous.
As the consumer I want to be able to choose and not have you do it for me.
I have no interest in paying extra for what you may find interesting.

All I want from my isp is access to the net, let me decide what extras I want.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by bctc See Profile :

I work at a small ISP and it only took about 2 weeks to get up and running with Disney and ESPN360. It costs us nothing (or next to nothing, I forget). The idea that this program somehow hurts small businesses is nothing short of ridiculous.
Ummmmm your company IS in fact paying ESPN something to have that. If it was free then why wouldn't every ISP be doing it? Nice try.
hoyleysox

join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA
·Cox HSI
·Time Warner Cable

ESPN loses ad revenue, acts like Ticketmaster

ESPN knows that not everyone is going to sign up. They must be betting that the subscription fees would outweigh the potential ad revenue of a larger audience.

ESPN is trying to become the Ticketmaster of sports by controlling the distribution and adding little or no value.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: ESPN loses ad revenue, acts like Ticketmaster

And Ticketmaster, which is under investigation already, will die the same way, by its own arrogance and greed, thanks God.
Andypro

join:2007-05-11
Milwaukee, WI

hi

Just find a buddy in Verizon territory and get him to share his account info with you. Bam, instant access no matter where you are in the country.

I may not know someone in Verizon territory, but I encourage you all to steal this service as much as possible. Since they don't even offer you paid access if you would be willing to pay, this ISP exclusive idea deserves to die a horrible death.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Re: hi

It won't go anywhere. Disney has the money to keep it going.

Also when the largest ISPs are on board noting is going anywhere. ATT, VZ Online, RoadRunner Comcast. And many small local and regional companies. 360 is going to stay.

Brett just wanted to bitch about it because a customer wanted it and he doesnt want to sign with them. But yet wants to collect extra $$$ from the customers going over his caps.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: hi

There should be an option to pay for a subscription to espn360 without being forced to pay for it through your ISP bill. If an ISP wishes to charge their entire user base for this service, fine, but there needs to be an option for those customers that do not have a participating ISP.

I say again, lets put it to a vote. No ESPN and any of their products or have them all and pay $5 more each month. Let's see how fast Disney will give in and lower their prices when faced with having to put these channels on a more expensive tier or a sports package. See how they like that, especially when they get paid by the number of potential viewers. Instead of having the entire customer base, they would only get paid for those willing to fork over extra money.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: hi

they won't give. Disney will just rates on all their other channels- ABC Family, Disney and all of the other networks that they own.
jsloan

join:2005-05-11
Kearny, NJ

i dont want to pay for espn360

This sucks. I don't want to be forced to pay for espn360. I hope that my ISP does not signup. I would prefer that they take the .70 cents and put it in improving their network. Give it to the poor, but not for this.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: i dont want to pay for espn360

how do you know they'd be paying 70cents per user? It could be less.
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

I have read the discussion about this

Even though there are somethings that I disagree with
"Super WISP" on,
this is one issue that I side with him on.

Don't give up "Super WISP"

secerbegovic
Premium
join:2002-01-01
Jacksonville, FL
·Korea Telecom
·T-Mobile US

Not on Comcast SE

Doc1.doc.zip 461,358 bytes
Looks like its not accessible on Comcast South East.
eqshadimar
Premium
join:2004-10-20
Plano, TX

Oh no!

We do not need to turn the Internet into another cable TV business model. Give me access to the content and let ME decide if it is worth paying for. I want my ISP to be a dumb pipe, nothing more.

Laters,
Jeff

guhuna
R.I.P Mike
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Brentwood, CA
·Covad Communications
·SONIC.NET
·PAXIO

Wow.

Its nice and all but I'll never use it.
moulder3

join:2007-05-21
Boston, MA

ESPN360

It should also be added that ESPN360 is offered by ESPN FREE to all colleges (any .edu IP address in the US). So why should private ISPs have to pay for something that ESPN is giving away to others?

The model should be to run ads (just like TV) through the service. I'm fortunate to have ESPN360 from my ISP, but during all commercial breaks, it just shows non-stop ESPN promos. Trade that for ads and make it available to everyone!!
SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

ESPN360: Boycott and possible class action lawsuit

What's especially ironic is that since I operate in a college town, the local university is my competitor. (They have, in fact, tried to prevent me from offering wireless service to students in their apartments -- even some older apartments which are not equipped for broadband.) So, ESPN360 is giving service to my competitor for free but trying to charge me for it. This certainly qualifies as an unfair business practice, and their message urging customers to switch does constitute tortious interference with contract. (For a definition of this term, see the Wikipedia entry at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference.)
Forums » Small ISPs Revolt Against ESPN360 Modelpage: 1 · 2


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