Frontier Still Hinting At Caps, New Tiers Though long-rumored caps are so-far still a no show Tipped by Linklist 
Last year, customers of Rochester, NY based DSL provider Frontier learned about the company's plans to employ 5GB caps for all tiers after the carrier slipped references to the plan into their service TOS. After some initial public backlash, Frontier said they might look at higher caps, which were supposed to officially arrive sometime this winter. While the new caps have yet to arrive, it's pretty clear that the company is still thinking about it. "It is important that customers that use less don't subsidize those that use the most," Frontier CEO Maggie Wilderotter tells Reuters this week at a meeting of regulators, indicating that the idea of bumping high-consumption users to higher tiers is still percolating. At the moment, Frontier says they personally call excessive users and give them a warning, but it's clear they'd like to start capping and imposing metered billing. The strange thing about Frontier is that while they offer 10Mbps in Rochester, NY -- the fastest speed they offer in many markets is 3Mbps. According to posts in our forums, many 6Mbps customers are being downgraded to 3Mbps. So while Frontier has been whining about heavy users out of one side of their mouth, they're not really investing in the infrastructure to handle them, or giving these "heavy" 5Gbps+ users anywhere to really upgrade to. "We all love the Internet, and Frontier is committed to offering you all the bandwidth you need and want to take full advantage of the Web," says the Frontier website. "Our basic residential Internet packages offers 5GB usage -- that's the equivalent of 500,000 basic text e-mails, 2,500 Photos, 40,000 Web Pages, over 300 Hours of Online Game Time, 1,250 downloaded songs, or a mixture of the above!" Indeed.
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 neufuse join:2006-12-06 James Creek, PA | caps.... anything under 100GB is BS... 250GB is the sweet spot, and comcast knew this, why can't everyone else see this also... now WISP's need a lower cap obviously because of the technology behind it... 10GB would be the sweet spot there | |
|  |  KfedkaPremium join:2005-05-06 Spokane, WA | Re: caps.... The sweet spot is unlimited not 250gb. 250gb in 2005 would have been maybe, but not today. | |
|  |  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | Re: caps.... You're not going to get "unlimited".. that was a lesson learned WAY back in the 90's that unlimited didn't pay.
250 is just fine, for these days. My only issue is that the so called ceiling is a "limit".. and limits are not acceptable. When the so called "limit" is hit, they need to either throttle speeds down to a much lower level, OR charge for overage.
Caps and tiers are nothing new to the internet... just residential services is all. If you give someone or a large group of people 'unlimited' anything, there will always be some that abuse it. ANYONE with an ounce of brains knows that you can't lasso in those that do abuse something while not treating everyone else the same way... ask any class action lawyer that. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: caps.... said by fiberguy:My only issue is that the so called ceiling is a "limit".. and limits are not acceptable. When the so called "limit" is hit, they need to either throttle speeds down to a much lower level, OR charge for overage. I would have ZERO problems with them doing the former...too bad most of the providers are considering doing the latter. | |
|  |  |  |  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | Re: caps.... But, do you know what the charging for overage really says to me? ... it says "We know that liberal socialists are going to tear into our core business over their golden internet service and hurt us bad, so get used to us shifting our income to the internet where you want it to be"...
It's called priming the marketplace.
Everyone wants to shove everything and the kitchen sink down the internet line... and that's fine.. many people see "great savings" with the internet.. however, it's a pipe dream. The costs that you avoided in savings only come back in another form elsewhere.. what you're going to see is that most of your money will go down the pipe in the form in the internet.
You're going to see the internet, and services, become that of the airlines and their baggage fees. I guess no one saw bag fees coming a while ago when they started charging $10 to book a ticket over the phone? Only, the fees people are going to get hit for, online, are going to make baggage fees look like a cake walk.
Expenses don't go away, unless you do with out. They only go to other places. That's how the economy works. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: caps.... said by fiberguy:But, do you know what the charging for overage really says to me? ... it says "We know that liberal socialists are going to tear into our core business over their golden internet service and hurt us bad, so get used to us shifting our income to the internet where you want it to be"... It's called priming the marketplace. Everyone wants to shove everything and the kitchen sink down the internet line... and that's fine.. many people see "great savings" with the internet.. however, it's a pipe dream. The costs that you avoided in savings only come back in another form elsewhere.. what you're going to see is that most of your money will go down the pipe in the form in the internet. You're going to see the internet, and services, become that of the airlines and their baggage fees. I guess no one saw bag fees coming a while ago when they started charging $10 to book a ticket over the phone? Only, the fees people are going to get hit for, online, are going to make baggage fees look like a cake walk. Expenses don't go away, unless you do with out. They only go to other places. That's how the economy works. I'm not talking about everything and the kitchen sink, just a tolerable cap like Comcast is using. | |
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 |  |  |  joetaxpayerI'M Here Till Thursday join:2001-09-07 Sudbury, MA Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by fiberguy:You're not going to get "unlimited".. that was a lesson learned WAY back in the 90's that unlimited didn't pay. 250 is just fine, for these days. I agree with two conditions; The ISP provide a meter that's at least within 24 hrs accurate. And the overage charges be somewhat reasonable.
These two conditions will at least give the user a choice. If I am at 250GB already, and still want to watch 2 Netflix movies, well, it will cost me.
Those over even 100GB are the vocal minority, and likely heavy video streaming users. As IPTV becomes more popular, I can see the caps becoming an issue for more people. A large family with multiple TiVos trying to view a lot of HD video during summer break, and the caps are easy to blow through. | |
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 |  | | Part of the problem is that a few years back Frontier suffered a takeover. Frontier had built a nationwide fiber backbone with the expectation that this would enable them to provide reasonable prices for their customers and a good return on investment.
After the take over they had the Telco side sold off. This left them unable to compete in the manner they had planned on.
Frontier should be the poster boy for what happens when mergers and takeovers are given without proper consideration for how it may affect the company's ability to provide the service it was in business to do. This is not a problem for company's that face competition but it is a problem when they are monopolies who must also serve the public interest. | |
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 jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA kudos:1 | Ouch Doing some quick performance tests with actual files yesterday and I easily could have creamed a month's worth of Frontier's potential caps.
I was using the 1GB test file from Optimum Online's FTP site and was downloading the entire file in less than 3 minutes. I downloaded the file about 3 or 4 times and uploaded it nearly the same number of times at about 7 minutes for the upload.
I could literally bust the 5GB cap in less than 15 minutes just messing around doing nothing of note. | |
|  |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ | Re: Ouch said by jmn1207:I was using the 1GB test file from Optimum Online's FTP site and was downloading the entire file in less than 3 minutes. Mmmmm FiOS but Verizon is bad. Eye-roll. | |
|  |  Smith6612Premium,MVM join:2008-02-01 North Tonawanda, NY kudos:22 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
2 edits | Heh I creamed that amount of data last night. It only takes a few hours of a Source game, as well as some slight internet radio and some foruming, as well as managing a game server to push me past 5GB. That, plus I have a lot of devices. Last month both of my DSL lines pushed a combined total of 320GB. This included YouTube HD, GameTrailers HD, game patches (big ones), game purchases (Steam), Windows Patches, Internet Radio, apps and YouTube on the iPod Touch, some data for a LAN party I hosted, web browsing, files for a game server (which were downloaded and then uploaded to the server, totaled 1GB download, 1GB upload), and this is just my usage alone. Others in my family pushed my usage up. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Ouch said by Smith6612:Heh I creamed that amount of data last night. It only takes a few hours of a Source game, as well as some slight internet radio and some foruming, as well as managing a game server to push me past 5GB. That, plus I have a lot of devices. Last month both of my DSL lines pushed a combined total of 320GB. This included YouTube HD, GameTrailers HD, game patches (big ones), game purchases (Steam), Windows Patches, Internet Radio, apps and YouTube on the iPod Touch, some data for a LAN party I hosted, web browsing, files for a game server (which were downloaded and then uploaded to the server, totaled 1GB download, 1GB upload), and this is just my usage alone. Others in my family pushed my usage up. You are an average user and i proclaim you as a USAGE HOG!!!!
/Sarcasm | |
|  |  |  |  Smith6612Premium,MVM join:2008-02-01 North Tonawanda, NY kudos:22 | Re: Ouch Do I win?  | |
|  |  |  |  Anonymous_AnonymousPremium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 kudos:2 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
2 edits | screen of avg joe i am all ready at 300MB just playing a game for 1 hour(feb 18th time slot) and others using the internet | |
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 |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ | I have a Verizon 3G modem for a laptop and my cap is 5Gig. How can a land line have the same cap as a cell connection? | |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK 2 edits | 250 GB caps seem "Fair" Based on right where we are now.
I think in another 5 years, 250GB would be far, far too restrictive. | |
|  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Re: 250 GB caps seem "Fair" said by KrK:Based on right where we are now. I think in another 5 years, 250GB would be far, far too restrictive. That's a problem to be delt with in 5 years then. | |
|  |  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | Re: 250 GB caps seem "Fair" Except you don't just go from "Now" to "Then".
The problem will grow worse quickly. | |
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 |  | | I'd say in just 2-3 years. These ISP's forget we are in the High Def video age RIGHT NOW!!! Alot of tv shows and some movies are being streamed in that format.
In this house, I game alot (XBOX 360 Live) and I have fam who like to come over and play as well. I need to install something that shows all of the bandwidth being consumed. I have my destop but two nephs bring their laps over and we all stream music online as well.
This is just a guess but the most I've ever used in a month would have to be just under 50 GB but that was when I was d/l alot from Usenet. That was a rare occurrence but I have to agree with most here that the Comcast 250 GB limit is ok for now as long as they're flexible with it every year.
I don't use Netflix but that's going to change here shortly. | |
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 Irun Manwhat obstacle?Premium join:2002-10-18 Walden, NY | They have us by the cajones Most BB customers in Frontier DSL territory (myself included) have only one competitive carrier, or none at all (here, it's Time Warner Cable). No FiOS overbuilding in Frontier service areas means we suffer.
Good move, Frontier... keep driving away business with your ridiculous pricing, outdated and abysmally slow DSL speeds, and (coming soon) draconian download cap. -- Don't pay ME back, pay it forward. | |
|  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | Re: They have us by the cajones Oh, the drama.. I love it. "draconian"..
Verizon, a local incumbent telephone company, generally does NOT over build someone else territory. There has been one peep of it happening in TX.. but you don't see telco over build other telco like cable providers do.
So in all the drama, there is nothing new to see here. The overwhelming majority of areas in the US have choice 1 or 2 for wire-line internet. | |
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 |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Oversold, over saturated Oh noes, our T3 is sinking. Quick, cap the hatches. | |
|  |  Smith6612Premium,MVM join:2008-02-01 North Tonawanda, NY kudos:22 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
| Frontier offers me 3Mbps/384kbps which is what I've had ever since I was hooked up (one of the first to get hooked up too). Since the holidays, as of two weeks ago Frontier had ran out of bandwidth in our area. Thankfully, I was able to find out that they were in fact bringing in more bandwidth, and they did as I'm on an entirely new route now. The old route is still up and running as well as I'm not seeing my pings go up and speeds drop anymore 
So really, it seems as though Frontier wants people to enjoy the service and use it as unlimited, but yet it also seems like they can't make up their mind. In my case, they've been getting hook ups in my area basically every day despite cable internet being around, which is why we ran out of bandwidth in the first place.
So yeah, last move Frontier should ever consider is capping people. Especially with them having fiber optic cabling fueling their COs, there's no reason they should be thinking about caps. | |
|  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Oversold, over saturated said by Smith6612:So yeah, last move Frontier should ever consider is capping people. Especially with them having fiber optic cabling fueling their COs, there's no reason they should be thinking about caps. Their Tier 1 link for the whole company is a T3, thats why. | |
|  |  |  |  Smith6612Premium,MVM join:2008-02-01 North Tonawanda, NY kudos:22 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
1 edit | Re: Oversold, over saturated I'll ask the Frontier guy who came to my home to check up on my connection the day after I called in about the former night time speed issues and find out what kind of connection the office in my area is using and was using before the upgrade. If it was a T3, it would have to be something that is fully fiber optic as even the RTs are fed by fiber optic cabling. Their main backbone itself is probably not a T3 though. Otherwise, I'd probably be seeing 2000+ latency on the line outside of the CO. | |
|  |  |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Oversold, over saturated The T3 was *hopefully* a joke. Maybe its burstable to a gigabit, but only a T3's worth of GBs for each month lol. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Smith6612Premium,MVM join:2008-02-01 North Tonawanda, NY kudos:22 | Re: Oversold, over saturated I'm sure it was. If Frontier had a T3 for my area, I would have begun seeing issues a long time ago. | |
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 |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | said by Trimline:Something else is amiss here. Sounds to me like they have oversold their market footprint and can't keep up with demand - 5GB cap? Moving customers to 3MG from 6MG. Oversold, over saturated and trying to devise a way to charge more. Let's play tiers. In the end, they'll get less - customers will move on to another vendor. What gets me even more is that you guys all sit back here like spoiled children at the age of 10.. thinking that mommy and daddy have unlimited pockets lined with money that can just give you anything you ask for or stomp your feet and cry. (I guess some people don't learn their lessons)
After the "over sold" portion of this argument, when do you realize that they are changing their services, in your own words, to deliver what they are able to? Where does it say that Once you have it, you're entitled to keep it? Maybe they CAN'T offer it any more..
Further, in case you haven't noticed, money is tight and this time its affecting those on the top pretty hard too. People think that business is rich and money flows with out an issue.. and if they're broke, they can just... what ? ... 'borrow it'... has ANYONE taken a look at this countries net cash flow lately?
You're right.. customers will move to another vendor.. the company will be able to run leaner, and more tax dollar will ultimately run into their hands to prop them up down the road.
5GB caps are in fact worthless.. I don't dispute that. Where my issue lands is this mentality that "just give it to me" with out any thought on the reality of the workings of how the market place works. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Oversold, over saturated "You're right.. customers will move to another vendor.. "
Seems like an easy way to shed the unprofitable customers. 
I think that 5Gb is unreasonable as well, but it is their ball and if they want to take it and go home they can. | |
|  |  |  badtripI heart the East BayPremium join:2004-03-20 Albany, CA | said by fiberguy:5GB caps are in fact worthless.. I don't dispute that. Where my issue lands is this mentality that "just give it to me" with out any thought on the reality of the workings of how the market place works. No ones is saying "just give it to me". I think many times folks forget that their customers ARE PAYING THEM MONEY for services. For many people, myself included, the argument stops there. ISPs aren't out there doing us favors, they are taking our money to provide a service. | |
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 |  1 edit | said by Trimline:Something else is amiss here. Sounds to me like they have oversold their market footprint and can't keep up with demand - 5GB cap? Moving customers to 3MG from 6MG. Oversold, over saturated and trying to devise a way to charge more. Let's play tiers. In the end, they'll get less - customers will move on to another vendor. It happened in my area. And it only took them 2 years to figure it out.... | |
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approval from: scelli 
| Seriously? What moron was sitting at the table and came up with 5GB? I do that in a day. Way to price gouge your customer base (the ones that, you know, let you stay in business) and putting up that hilarious statement on their website is like a slap in the face.
I hope they crumble in this wave of financial hardship. A company like this failing is the only upside of the crap going on. Sad for the workers though. | |
|  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | bailout $ Frontier needs to get some of the federal bailout money for broadband to deliver 10GB caps and 4 mbit service. | |
|  RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY | Caps should be proportional to Speed If they want to have caps (something I do not agree with since they should provide what you are paying for and being offered) it should be based on the speed tier you are being sold. If Tier A has twice the Speed as Tier B, it should also have AT LEAST twice the cap since that gives you the same FULL SPEED download time. If they feel that 5GB is "fair" at their lowest tier (I think it is WAY too low for anything past dial-up) then the higher tiers should have LARGER caps no smaller than the ratio of the tier speeds (It is OK to give better than proportional cap to higher tiers so that the user gets something more than just speed for the extra money). | |
|  |  See 7 replies to this post | |
 | | Complete utter ripoff...whoever has this ISP should drop it You are equally well off with dial up than with this ISP.
I just downloaded the Halo Wars 1.5GB demo in a few minutes. This cap is ridiculous. You can only basically browse webpages and e-mail. If you download a video, watch a movie, play an online game or anything you will easily exceed this cap. In a family home this thing is gone in 5mins. I do about 100GB average a month with zero piracy. Just some gaming, demos, and NetFlix in a single user connection. | |
|  |  wvcaverPremium join:2005-04-17 Millersburg, OH | Re: Complete utter ripoff...whoever has this ISP should drop it Thank god Embarq did not sell to this lousy company !
I cringe every time I hear "Frontier" !!! | |
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 spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium join:2001-08-07 Elk Grove, CA kudos:1 Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
| So true "So while Frontier has been whining about heavy users out of one side of their mouth, they're not really investing in the infrastructure to handle them, or giving these "heavy" 5Gbps+ users anywhere to really upgrade to."
That is the major problem with Frontier. The right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. Case in point, out here they wanted to elevate the speed tier, just that they didn't want Wilderotter to know what they were up to. Reason being, they are getting creamed by Comcast and Surewest. We can see that the local customers got the short end of that stick.  -- The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
|  Vchat20Landing is the REAL challengePremium join:2003-09-16 Columbus, OH 1 edit | Freakin' melodramatic people. Upon reflection, I do not wish to post. Take me back! | |
|  Jipa219 join:2000-08-02 Wilkes Barre, PA | Service and Caps Call me old fashioned but when I first got Epix, which was bought by Frontier, they explained I was leasing a network connection of 1.5 Meg/d 384/up. My monthly fee was to pay for that connection at those speeds. If they kept up with that model and did not play percentages or oversell their markets, there would be no problem. DSL should be a leasing of a line capable of speeds advertised, we are buying the pipe. The problem is that companies get greedy and try to sell services with the hopes of signing up grandma's who send an e mail a week. There should be net neutral regulations set forth whereby you lease a line at a certain tier and the line should be capable of giving you that 24/7. This is the bandwidth you purchase with your monthly fee, and this is what you should get. Just like unlimited local calls or for that matter cable or sat tv, the service is there when i need it, i am not charged more for calling more on my local plan, or watching TV for 10 hrs as opposed to 5. They provide the signal and that's the cost of doing business. We need to get away from caps altogether. The cap should be the amount of bandwidth I can use in a month at the top dl/ul speed. Lets face it, the amounts of data/video/etc is only going to go up, with on demand video, gaming etc... ISP's need to get over themselves and become Dump Pipes and provide the connection to the internet, and stop trying to be more than that. I wont mind paying more for a dumb pipes. I will especially be upset if we are going to pay stimulus money to these guys and get metered service to boot. I don't want to see our money get taken away like the Universal Fees that were paid to update and modernize broadband, (well if broadband is described as the pockets of executives pockets). | |
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