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Cablevision Gets Wrist Slap For Misleading Ads
Verizon wins latest round of cable/fiber marketing dispute...
by Karl Bode Friday 27-Mar-2009 tags: dsl · Fiber · competition · business · bandwidth · cable · Verizon FiOS · Cablevision
As cable companies have been trying to compete with FiOS, one of their favorite tactics has been a series of ads that intentionally distort the difference between core and last-mile fiber. Cable marketing folk assume that since the public is probably too stupid to understand the difference, they can take some of the shine off of the FiOS bloom by pretending that fiber is fiber. Time Warner Cable has taken the lead on this front; ironic considering they've yet to launch faster DOCSIS 3.0 speeds in a single market.

Time Warner Cable isn't the only one using misleading marketing comparisons to downplay the competitive impact of FiOS. Comcast is running ads in some papers claiming "we already have a fiber-optic network serving ALL our homes," while Charter runs an ad one spokesman says aims to "reassure current Charter customers that they too have fiber optic technology bringing their homes to life." Cox and Cablevision are running similar ads.

Apparently Cablevision's ads on this front went too far for some. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureau this week urged Cablevision to change a number of their ads claiming that Optimum Online is "America’s fastest home Internet access." The NAD also took issue with Cablevision's claim they own "America’s most advanced fiber optic network" that is "state-of-the- art" and "second to none."

NAD recommended that the claim "most advanced fiber optic network" be discontinued, but noted that the advertiser can characterize itself as an "advanced hybrid fiber optic network" and is free to tout the benefits of its network and offerings.

Interestingly, NAD hasn't come out against the other cable industry ads of this type. Not that it really matters -- NAD is largely a voluntary process with no teeth, where by the time dubious advertisements come up for review by the CBBB, they've already run for the intended amount of time. Still, Verizon is applauding the ruling.

"Consumers have been misled too long by Cablevision’s false and misleading ads," Verizon spokesperson Bobbi Henson tells us. "It’s finally time for Cablevision to stop claiming that their hybrid network is the same as Verizon’s advanced, all-fiber network," she says. Verizon goes on to play the sour-economy card, proclaiming that "in these tough times when consumers are making critical purchasing decisions, it’s important for them to know the truth about who is really offering the most advanced network."

Click for full size
Of course Verizon is no saint on this front, either. The carrier faced a similar sanction by NAD just last fall for for making inaccurate claims about their FiOSTV service. Verizon also has a history of occasionally taking press review snippets out of context. All's fair in love and marketing, apparently.

Still, there's plenty of flaws in competing services without having to make things up. For instance, if cable-industry marketing departments really wanted to hit Verizon where it hurts (truthfully), they could just focus on Verizon's awful billing issues, which remain the service's Achilles' heel.

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pizz
Fiber please
Premium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable

The other MSO's

Need to be told the same thing. Hybrid Fiber-Coax - is not FTTH/FTTP. I guess it's rough, seeing their subs leave by the droves to FIOS
--
The more you talk, the less you listen.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: The other MSO's

I would venture to guess that Verizon is losing way more POTS subs to cable than they're getting video subs from cable.
jaw2012

join:2008-08-01
King Of Prussia, PA

1 edit

Re: The other MSO's

said by Bit00:

I would venture to guess that Verizon is losing way more POTS subs to cable than they're getting video subs from cable.
I don't know why that would be. When I think of cable I don't see any decisive positives with Voice service whereas I see over 100HD channels starring me in the face when I compare Cable TV vs. Fios. Plus most people don't mix services, so TV service should win out over voice service one would think.

(yeah yeah I know TW has 100 in NYC but as a whole cable HD is sorely lacking)

Nuff said.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: The other MSO's

you can't compare cable as a whole to VZ's HD line up. That's just crazy and comparing Apples to Oranges. You have to compare provider to provider. Not Industry to Provider.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
Why are people dropping POTS? POTS' high price along with viable VoIP and cellular competitors. »Verizon To Offer $5 Landline Service Price is why I ditched my POTS service.

We just had a news item this week already claiming Comcast to be the 3rd largest telephone service provider behind Verizon and AT&T while the incumbent telcos continue to lose voice customers.

Cable vs FiOS comparisons differ by market but IMO DBS smokes them both in terms of HD offerings and there is no 'mad rush' to DBS...so people aren't buying in droves based on how many HD channels they get. They buy on promos (eg double+triple play deals). Price is king, not how many HD filler channels you get.

RadioDoc
Yeah, like it matters.
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
Let's see now...losing a low-margin POTS line to cable vs. getting a fat cash cow video subscriber from cable. I think I'd take that deal.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: The other MSO's

Low margin? Yeah right.

RadioDoc
Yeah, like it matters.
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest

Re: The other MSO's

Yes. Low margin. Basic residential POTS is low margin. So low that business lines have subsidized it for decades. Now cash-cow cable TV subscribers are subsidizing the cable POTS product.

So yeah, if I was Verizon I'd happily lose several $10 a month POTS lines to pick up one $100 video customer.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits

Re: The other MSO's

Who said anything about "basic"? You think they're losing $10 line customers to $30 cable VoIP providers? They obviously aren't. They're losing the $50+ caller ID, tons of LD, keep my name out of the phonebook fee, call-forwarding, voicemail, 3-way, bunch of extra feature and calling plan types who can get the same or more service for 1/2 the price from telco competitors or go cellular. Advanced services cost telcos mere pennies to provide while they charge an arm and a leg for it, resulting in people fleeing POTS in droves. I can't think of too many services than have insanely high margins of Caller ID and other telco 'advanced services', except maybe cellular texting charges or cellular per KB bandwidth fees. VOIP competitors simply aren't as greedy as the telco, but make no mistake, telephony is very lucrative, otherwise cable competitors wouldn't be entering that business so agressively.

Meanwhile with your "basic" logic, they're losing a ton of big margin $50 pots customers and picking up a few low margin $50 video customers.

RadioDoc
Yeah, like it matters.
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest

Re: The other MSO's

$10 revenue, not consumer cost. This is about margins and one video customer represents a much higher profit over expense ratio than POTS ever is even with $5 Caller ID, etc. And if you think those fees are not coming soon to a cable POTS and VoIP provider near you you're naive. Comcast is already tacking them on here.

But thanks for trying.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

1 edit

Re: The other MSO's

Conjecture, but thanks for trying.

RadioDoc
Yeah, like it matters.
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

Re: The other MSO's

No, just the truth.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: The other MSO's

LOL.

RadioDoc
Yeah, like it matters.
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

Re: The other MSO's

Indeed.
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Here
kudos:1
Absolutely not conjecture.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits

Re: The other MSO's

Absolutely conjecture. You think all these new FiOS adds are $100 video payers? Hardly. Just like cable, Verizon started triple play promo blitzing and that is where these new adds are coming from and they're no more cash cows that any other discount driven gets are.
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Here
kudos:1
No, he's right.

It's accepted fact that pre-divestiture, long-distance and business subsidized home phone. Post-divestiture we've seen how the low margins cause everyone who tries and become a CLEC to eventually either bow out or become a niche brand.

With POTS the person with a basic phone is a "no margin" customer. The company is making a few pennies off of them a month and it's why you never seen retention bending over backwards to keep them. Those extra charges are the only thing making it profitable for residential phones on a whole.

'VOIP competitors simply aren't as greedy as the telco, but make no mistake, telephony is very lucrative, otherwise cable competitors wouldn't be entering that business so agressively.'

It's not that they're not greedy. It's that they have a lower base cost and they need an edge to get customers. MSO's are entering it not because it's lucrative but because it helps round out their service offerings and allows them another source revenue with minimal infrastructure cost.

The fact that the MSO will spend millions to get into telephony while telcos spend billions to get into video tells you who has the sweeter gig.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits

Re: The other MSO's

Telcos are getting into video because they're losing their voice business. Without another source of revenue they would be extinct.

If video was the end all be all cash cow they would have done it 15 years ago instead of making BA&PA type tax deals while not deploying shit. If it were a money tree they would have taken the financial goodies AND deployed. They only started a few years ago because their voice customer base was evaporating rapidly with the rapid expansion of VOIP, dying dialup, and cheap cellular.

But it doesn't matter...you want to believe that those big bill paying POTS customers weren't a huge profit generator while these $50 video subs are cash cows you go right ahead.
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Here
kudos:1

Re: The other MSO's

'If video was the end all be all cash cow they would have done it 15 years ago...'

Uhhh...they were.

It failed because the technology couldn't support it.

'But it doesn't matter...you want to believe that those big bill paying POTS customers weren't a huge profit generator while these $50 video subs are cash cows you go right ahead.'

I'm just guessing you don't work in the industry. The low profitability of POTS was the reason why the telecoms lobbied for relaxation of LATA regulations for long distance at the expense of POTS revenues. Everyone who has dealt with any telecom work knows this.

RadioDoc
Yeah, like it matters.
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest

Re: The other MSO's

said by Bit00:

If video was the end all be all cash cow they would have done it 15 years ago
I thought you might be informed but this tells me you're mostly making this up.

Ameritech (now AT&T) built and ran Americable 15 years ago. It was sold to Wide Open West as part of the SBC merger deal with regulators. They also had Mobile One cellular (one of the original AMPS operations), which was sold to Verizon as part of the same deal, and that goes back to the mid 80's. They'd still have both if it were not for some ham-fisted regulatory requirements.

Given what I actually know, and what you evidently don't, I'll stand by my statements.


--
* sigh * someone is a little trigger happy...
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
id almost want to say that Internet services are more profitable then even video as content owners get more and more greedy.

just look at services provided, packages loose channels to stay in the same price range, while HSI goes up in speed and never changes in price.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
LJGoose

join:2008-08-31
Middle Island, NY
I'm sorry but I have been a Cablevision customer for 10 years now off and on and have never been happier. I get constant speeds of 34/5 when I pay for 30/5. Now as far as their tv service. Yea that could use some work.
Darth Fiber
Premium
join:2005-12-16
Pompton Lakes, NJ

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers.

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

said by Darth Fiber:

Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers.
Excuse me??
Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home....
Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them??
I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other...

And to add the FINAL nail in the coffin, which company offering high speed internet/TV/Phone, OWNS a huge amount of the internet backbone that all data travels on????
--
RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

said by JRW2:

Excuse me??
Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home....
Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them??
That has everything to do with network design, and very little to do with the underlying transport technology. The MSOs could scale down to 16-32 homes per HFC node and easily go head-to-head with FiOS, if they had reasonable justification to make the investment.

Case in point: into the home from the ONT, even FiOS is copper via either MoCA or Cat5. The transmission medium does not matter -- the design and scaling of the network do.

said by JRW2:

I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other...
On digital transmissions it's not going to make a huge difference. Few are foolish enough to suggest that 1s and 0s are "sharper" on fiber than copper.

said by JRW2:

And to add the FINAL nail in the coffin, which company offering high speed internet/TV/Phone, OWNS a huge amount of the internet backbone that all data travels on????
Verizon Business / UUNet / MCI / Alter.net has a vast network, but it doesn't carry as much traffic as you are implying. With the heavy reliance on providers like Level(3), Global Crossing, and Cogent, Verizon doesn't even rank in the top 5 for traffic volume.

Of course, the backbone operations group is also completely different from the broadband services group. Different balance sheets, different staff, different equipment standards, different call centers, different customer base. The only thing they really share in common is the ticker symbol.

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

Actually PQ is different on copper or fiber but it goes back to your point of scability. Digital doesn't having any meaning in terms of quality because PQ is subject to compression. I can compress a digital feed so much that it is unwatchable. And when an MSO is trying to 'cram' channels into their limited bandwidth, they'll compress the snot out of it and PQ goes to hell. FTTH, theoretically, having higher capacity means the provider doesn't have to compress the snot out of it to add channels to a line up.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
Fiber *IS* better than Copper. Here is the reasons:

1. More bandwidth. Technically, Fiber can handle 1+Tbps connections. Add multiple wavelengths and it'll go even faster.
2. Longer distances. I think 25 miles without a repeater is freakin' awesome.
3. Reliability. No more crappy coax connections and no ugly signal fluctuations.

..and if you want compatibility, you can split your video, data, and phone from the feed and put them in their places (Coax, RJ45, and RJ11).

What's the benefit of Coax to the home?
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT 3.2GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,WinXP]|WifeWS[P4 2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,WinXP]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux]

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP

1 edit

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

said by Simba7:

Fiber *IS* better than Copper. Here is the reasons:
I'm not going to dispute that fiber often has advantages over copper on the provider side. What I'm saying is that you, as a customer, sign up for a service based on the features it provides -- be it Internet access speed, number of TV channels, or telephone features. The factors that influence each of those options is only loosely related to the underlying transport medium.

said by Simba7:

1. More bandwidth. Technically, Fiber can handle 1+Tbps connections. Add multiple wavelengths and it'll go even faster.
The frequency breakdown in FiOS today is using mechanical means (prisms), which means home visits are required and complete ONT swapouts required to tap into additional capacity. So yeah, you can upgrade, but be prepared for a massive bill of materials to accomplish it.

said by Simba7:

2. Longer distances. I think 25 miles without a repeater is freakin' awesome.
With ZR optics you can go 80km without amplification, but keep in mind that fiber span needs to be absolutely clean. Any bulkhead connections at fiber junction boxes or splice points from recovering cable cuts will substantially reduce that distance. Still, as an end user buying a service, why the heck do I care what the distance benefits are for fiber? I only care if I can get the service or I can't.

said by Simba7:

3. Reliability. No more crappy coax connections and no ugly signal fluctuations.
True, with fiber you're not going to have to deal with EMI/RFI, transient voltages, or grounding issues. You still have to deal with issues of patch panel termination faults, failed connectors that allow the fiber to spin and change the connection characteristics, and any events that cause the glass to bend beyond specs or break.

Bad events can still occur with fiber: just last month the local DiecTV rebroadcast facility lost 50% of it's capacity when water flooded into a fiber conduit that was cut open when new road signs were placed by the state. After an unusually warm February day, which allowed the snow to melt and flood the conduit, there was an extreme cold snap that followed that resulted in the water freezing in the conduit and snapping the fiber. Since the conduit was also frozen solid, that prevented new fiber from being blown through the conduit as well.

said by Simba7:

What's the benefit of Coax to the home?
This is easy:
•Large base of infrastructure already installed
•Able to be spliced very cost effectively (no need for fusion splice gear like with fiber) in the event of a break
•Able to be split into multiple feeds using inexpensive splitters
•Less expensive amplification hardware for copper

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by Simba7:

Fiber *IS* better than Copper. Here is the reasons:

1. More bandwidth. Technically, Fiber can handle 1+Tbps connections. Add multiple wavelengths and it'll go even faster.
2. Longer distances. I think 25 miles without a repeater is freakin' awesome.
3. Reliability. No more crappy coax connections and no ugly signal fluctuations.

..and if you want compatibility, you can split your video, data, and phone from the feed and put them in their places (Coax, RJ45, and RJ11).

What's the benefit of Coax to the home?
1TBps to your home? Not today, not in 5 years. Probably not even in 10 years. Keep dreaming.

Longer distances, I agree. That is why cable companies run fiber to local nodes and why they are making the nodes smaller now.

Reliability. I agree with that, but to be honest the cable on the poles (hardline) is tough as nails and will last for decades. Besides, with HFC the copper portion of the cable plant is not that big anymore.

Definitely fiber is better. But HFC matches what FiOS is offering today. When they offer something more, cable can step up its game for a lot less cost than FiOS, by running fiber to the home since the longest part of their network is fiber.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by JRW2:

said by Darth Fiber:

Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers.
Excuse me??
Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home....
Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them??
I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other.
My guess is with true fibre to the home since with all the bandwidth on fibre, the compression rates can be lower.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

See 6 replies to this post

Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
Of course it means their network isn't as advanced, at least in terms of capacity. The shared topology of current local cable infrastructure doesn't permit the to-the-home capacity the VZ FTTH offers. Cable is forced to share bandwidth with hundreds of homes and even with SDV, ditching analog and offering that saved bandwidth to additional HSI channels with channel bonding they are barely on par with VZ's current retail video and HSI offerings. And when DOCSIS 3 becomes the norm, VZ need only respond by changing the throughput caps on their tiers. They don't have to change anything. They could offer 100Mb service tomorrow if they wanted to and there was a market for it. MSOs simply can't. Many are struggling right now with 10-20Mb services resorting to draconian traffic shaping and caps to keep services operating smoothly.
Darth Fiber
Premium
join:2005-12-16
Pompton Lakes, NJ

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

Just taking Fios into account neglects a good portion of what Cablevision's fiber network provides. If you read the news from yesterday, Verizon is trying to sell some of their backbone capacity for companies such as cell phone providers. Cablevision's fiber network carries Lightpath traffic, municipal traffic, and a vast array of other information. CV is also providing wifi access to Optimum subscribers throughout their footprint, as well as helping Comcast to provide similar service in New Jersey.

Most of this information can be easily found on this site. Do some research on other industry sites, and you will find that it IS true that Cablevision has probably the most advanced fiber network in the United States, Verizon included.
Answer Guy

join:2006-07-28
Grass Lake, MI

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

I completely agree with your first paragraph. But, I fail to see how showing what customers each company provides service to proves anything about the quality of the network.

If I were to build a network that could pass 100Tbps to all customers, wouldn't that make me the most advanced fiber network. If I provided service to 100 million customers with 1Mbps that does not make an advanced network. In that case, I would have the largest network. But, all of us here would agree it was not "advanced".

gvalinoti

@verizon.net
Cablevision is not a Tier-1 provider and does not ever come close to offering Sonet rings that encircle whole continents like the ones Verizon has. Verizon has probably one of, if not the most diverse networks in the word.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 edit

Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim

said by gvalinoti :

Cablevision is not a Tier-1 provider and does not ever come close to offering Sonet rings that encircle whole continents like the ones Verizon has. Verizon has probably one of, if not the most diverse networks in the word.
Please. SONET rings are not FiOS just like 18 wheelers are not commuter vehicles.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

BBB?

LMAO! The BBB doesn't do anything but extort money from their so called "members"

Worthless group.
bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
Reviews:
·VOIPo
·Verizon VoiceWing

Re: BBB?

said by hottboiinnc:

LMAO! The BBB doesn't do anything but extort money from their so called "members"

Worthless group.
Personally I think Cablevision is wrong for exaggerating their claims regarding fiber and speed. As a previous customer of CV long gone to FIOS I believe FIOS will beat CV hands down for delivering the purchased speeds, especially at 3pm to 9pm. Cablevision cannot quote a speed and guarantee it here on congested Long Island.

As far as the BBB is concerned I agree they are a waste. A business can have a dozen law suits pending and the BBB knows nothing about them and gives the business a "nothing known" rating
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: BBB?

What gets me about the BBB they'll make everything go away in their system if you "join" or if you're a "member" already any known lawsuits never make it to the system (basically what you said).

metachronos

join:2005-01-26
Green Bay, WI

TWC

Maybe they can get TWC next, I'm sick of their misleading ads.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: TWC

and what do you want them to do? Give their BBB rating a C instead of a B?

You must not know how the BBB or any of their agencies. Full of nothing but a bunch of money grabbing crooks.
Bobcat79
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Optimum Online
·EarthLink

More distortions

Cablevision ads say they're faster than Verizon's "High Speed Internet", which is VZ's DSL service. Most people would think Cablevision is saying they're faster than FiOS.
--
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
Manorville, NY

Re: More distortions

The best is that they don't even mention Verizon by name.. They always say "phone company internet" and "phone company high speed internet"

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Punishment

They should be forced to watch 200 hours of the local access tv channel....
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Punishment

said by ninjatutle:

They should be forced to watch 200 hours of the local access tv channel....
That violates the Geneva Convention.

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

Verizon can take care of it themselves

How about a few commercials that highlight the difference between FTTH and simply a fiber backbone?

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Well it is FTTN

Our node is within walking distance, and the grey boxes are popping up all over town.

The semantics game is silly. I get speeds comparable to FTTH providers' offerings. I don't see the problem.

See 15 replies to this post

kfbg2

@myvzw.com

Cable Ads

It really doesn't matter much what they say. Its what they can deliver that counts. I'll take my Cablevision with Boost service over Fios any day. My actual throughput on cable exceeds any of my neighbors on FIOS. Cablevision has done an excellent job managing thier network in my area. I can easily get 20 Mbps downloads.
hofs1

join:2007-10-12
Little Falls, NJ

Re: Cable Ads

question is can u sustain that 20 meg download speed over say a 4 gig file download? can u hit that speed ANYTIME of day/night/weekend ? can u maintain 5 meg up also and keep it at that level for say 3 hrs or more?

Just asking cause i could never get anything close to it on CV maybe at the start of the download but never sustained for any serious amount of time. Fios is 20 meg down period no boost no start up speed just a flat down of 20. Boost usually dies after a few min of heavy load at least in my neiborhood.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Cable Ads

said by hofs1:

question is can u sustain that 20 meg download speed over say a 4 gig file download? can u hit that speed ANYTIME of day/night/weekend ? can u maintain 5 meg up also and keep it at that level for say 3 hrs or more?
I'm not on cablevision anymore since I moved, but my provider (Service Electric/PTD) can sustain 30Mbps on DOCSIS3 for large downloads (I've tested this with downloads >10GB), and I can hit that speed anytime of the day/night/weekend even after the school bus. 5Mbps up I don't have as the speed I get is only 2Mbps up. That's enough for me for now anyway.
hofs1

join:2007-10-12
Little Falls, NJ

1 edit

Re: Cable Ads

Being on service electric out in Sussex i can understand not seeing any over subscribed nodes BUT in my area CV would slow to a 6-8 meg down 1.5 up most of the time except late at night. So having my Solid Fios has been absolutely light years ahead of CV.

P.S. when i work out in sussex it tends to be such a reminder of how jersey can be so refreshing then other days i sit in Lincoln Tunnel traffic and sigh.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 edit

Re: Cable Ads

said by hofs1:

P.S. when i work out in sussex it tends to be such a reminder of how jersey can be so refreshing then other days i sit in Lincoln Tunnel traffic and sigh.
It's the best place in NJ to live. Clean air, beautiful scenery and lots of outdoor activity. Also peace and quiet. Pennsylvania is also a hop skip and a jump away to get cheap groceries and lower sales tax as well as powerball.

Then again let me shut my mouth before everyone else sees that and decides to move up here.

P.S. I used to live in Wayne and had no problems with OOL Boost and node congestion.
jaw2012

join:2008-08-01
King Of Prussia, PA

they know what we all know...

Most people are for whatever reason, ignorant when it comes to this technology.

Most people just want 100+HD and they want it to work as advertised. Fios wins again.

Nuff said.
JTBurn

join:2003-11-08
Ellicott City, MD

Blah

It says news at the top of the page. This seems more like opinion to me.
Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Fiber

If I were a customer with cable.. let's say Charters service who used to service my area.. (There internet service was shit, and unstable) and they were advertising and saying they had a fiber network.. yada yada..

Well I would think Fiber is crap. I mean that is honestly what it would lead me to believe. And I wouldn't support the technology.

(Of course I am a lot smarter than I used to be..as far as internet, etc. goes)

Anyways, glad to hear that Cablevision got a wrist slap if nothing else.. Because even if they don't service me, I am still all for business being up front about the service they offer.

Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20

1 edit

Been there, done that...all three ways!

I've had fiber to the premises, I've had hybrid-node cable, I've had converged copper phone network.

SD and HD PQ winner: fiber.
Internet winner: fiber.
Consistency winner: fiber.
--
Read your contract and TOS before signing anything.

SoCalDude

join:2008-07-30
Oxnard, CA

Fios

Why doesn't Verizon make commercials advertising their speed tiers and compare them to cable? Is it because people don't know what a 20 Megabit upload connection is?
Synbios

join:2002-05-18
Arlington, VA
Reviews:
·Charter
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

Speed is the only thing that matters in the end

Sure FTTH might be a better investment and more future-proof from an investors point of view, but if DOCSIS 3.0 is able to provide the same or faster speeds at the same or less cost (within the next few years), what difference does it make right now? (Comcast's rationale)

In other words I think ISPs should start advertising their actual download and upload rates, and forget about trying to put it into meaningless words. Give us some quantitative comparison.

Hybrid-Fiber Coax (HFC) is the name of the technology, of course they have an extensive fiber infrastructure backbone. However I think the difference between HFC and FTTH should also be pointed out in advertising campaigns, instead of these wishy washy "fiber" claims that are open to lots of interpretation. At the same time, this goes back to what I said originally. Nobody cares about the infrastructure that you use. All that matters are reliability, realistic speed, and cost.

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