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story category Frontier Abandons Cap Plans In Rochester?
Will try to leech Time Warner Cable customers instead...
(old news - 03:02PM Monday Apr 06 2009)
tags: competition · business · bandwidth · RoadRunner Cable · FrontierNet Internet Access
Tipped by robl27 See Profile
Last year, customers of Frontier Communications learned that the company was considering imposing 5GB monthly caps on all DSL tiers. The company's handling of this announcement was sloppy, the language first showing up in Frontier's service TOS, before even company support employees were notified. The company then launched a website FAQ aimed at making 5GB sound reasonable (after all, that's 500,000 basic text e-mails!). Hints of a winter launch never materialized, though executives kept making hints that a shift to metered billing was coming -- until now.

Apparently, Time Warner Cable's announcement last week that they'd be to imposing metered billing in one of Frontier's key markets -- Rochester NY -- has the company changing their tune. According to the Stop The Cap blog (started last year by Broadband Reports user Dampier See Profile), a memo is circulating at Frontier suggesting the telco will now use Time Warner Cable's plan as a marketing opportunity to leech customers from the cable giant:
A well informed source within Frontier told StoptheCap! a company memo is being circulated to educate customer service representatives about the decision and answer questions from potential customers switching from Road Runner. This may have come in response to a bonanza of new subscribers Frontier is picking up this week from customers canceling Road Runner service. Company officials are internally considering a new marketing campaign to blitz Rochester area residents with information about Road Runner’s punitive caps, and that Frontier will not be imposing those caps on its customers.
As we said last week, the only way the US broadband market is shifting from flat-rate to metered billing is if all carriers decide to do it at the same time. Otherwise, those still offering flat-rate pricing can unleash marketing blitzkriegs on companies that charge $1 per gigabyte overages, pegging them as greedy cheapskates. Time Warner Cable's trial has carefully avoided Verizon FiOS in the carrier's five trial markets for just this reason. AT&T, who is also considering low caps and metered billing, is Time Warner Cable's competitor in four of the five trial markets.

Ironically, Rochester was picked by Time Warner Cable because it's one of the few markets in New York not served by Verizon -- and therefore will never see the competitive threat created by FiOS. With Frontier talking about low caps, Time Warner Cable execs must have figured Rochester was a safe testing ground, and that Frontier's own caps would provide cover and justification. Apparently, they were wrong.

Related:
  1. Looking For Hard Data To Justify Metered Billing
  2. Time Warner Cable Pouts
  3. Time Warner Caps Go from Ugly To Invisible
  4. Time Warner Cable Broadband Revenues Jump 11%
  5. Cost Of Providing Broadband Dropping
  6. Customer Battles Time Warner Overages
  7. Lawmaker Unveils Anti-Metered Billing Law
  8. Frontier To Inherit Some Very Shoddy Verizon Copper
Forums » Frontier Abandons Cap Plans In Rochester?
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype

Reaction?

I can't wait to see how Time Warner responds to this:

1. Stay with the plan and hemmorhage customers to Frontier?

2. Mysteriously decide Rochester isn't a good "testing location" for the new Roadrunner tiered capped structure?

3. Quietly do away with "testing" in the Rochester area in hopes nobody notices?

4. Strike a collusion deal with Frontier to keep caps?

I doubt 1 is an option. If it's 2 or 3, they're setting themselves up for disaster in the other markets since it's virtually an admission capped service (despite their marketers) is inferior to uncapped service. Wouldn't surprise me if option 4 wins out.
--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com

Need BB

join:2001-12-21
Rochester, NY


1 edit

Re: Reaction?

All the news stations have been running stories about the TW caps and a demonstration outside TW's office has been planned. Frontier has been getting destroyed by TW because of the higher speeds and cheaper phone service. Frontier could greatly benefit from this, as many people are angered by TW's move.

Maybe I should share some bandwidth:


--
AWD Turbo Power
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Reaction?

Why the upload so bad?

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: Reaction?

Obviously evil pirates /sarcasm

redxii
too big to fail
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Texas
I can't view Frontier's packages w/o a zip code. How fast are they, and what's the price?

Better not be expecting 5GB/Mo for $40-50 minimum. No ****ing way. 5GB is NOT reasonable for broadband.

Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state

Re: Reaction?

Depends on where you are. Their slowest plan is 1Mbps/128kbps, the faster ones are 3Mbps/384kbps (they push this one out a lot), 6Mbps/768kbps, and then 10Mbps/1Mbps.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: Reaction?

I wonder what real world speeds are. A long time ago I had 7100/768 from DSL Extreme and even with fast path and an 8100 kbps provision was lucky to get 6.5Mb from it.

Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Dish Network
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..


4 edits

Re: Reaction?

Well, in the real world, on my 3Mbps/384kbps plan I have with them I get 3200kbps download (sync rate is 3740kbps), 390kbps (sync rate is 448kbps) upload, both sustained. The latency since I'm on Fast Packet mode is about 10ms sustained to the DSLAM/edge router. I'm running a SpeedStream 6520 with a Linksys WRT54G v5 on that connection, and I'm using PPPoA for the login. As per the 1Mbps speed, that is really supposed to get 768kbps, but people report 1Mbps. The 6Mbps and 10Mbps speeds typically get exact on to slightly over the speed results the last I saw.

Sorry about all of these edits lol. In terms of KiloBytes, I'll get 390KB/s on the download, and I'll stick in the 49KB/s range on the upload but at times I do peak out at 50KB/s.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
5. Have sales reps lie about having any caps (deny everything) then play ignorance and point to TOS/AUP when sending out the titanic bill for overuse.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

Cappers might like to talk to their legal department.

I say again someone needs to take the Bull by the Horn. Before any ISP implements caps they need to set up a method to track the amount of data downloaded by a web site to a users browser by the IP address.

Each website should be required to include on their home page a text box in a standard format that tells how much data will be downloaded to the users browser if they click on enter. The webmaster should also be required to disclose if the website will be linking to another website such as Double Click or downloading a video clip or music or narration and the amount of data that will be downloaded from the linked website.

The last time I was in a situation like this, where I could not predict how much I would be charged for connect time, was when I lived in White Plains New York where I subscribed to message rate telephone service.

Callers could be charged anywhere from one message unit for a local call with unlimited connect time, all the way to Seven Message Units and one message unit for each additional minute of connect time, for a call to the edge of the message rate area.

It is time for you to write you Regulators the Congress, the Senate and the FCC. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the most grease.

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

5G is low

I cant believe they would consider 5G, its such a low number. I am totally against caps, but for network throttling. Although they need to really build out a better network, instead imposing a cap.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: 5G is low

so true i just cleared 5gb in a single night because i reinstalled my Windows 7 Beta 64bit. so updates, drivers, EVE-Online, World of Warcraft, updates and UI mods for WoW, Ventrilo Client, Updates for EVE. WoW also started its prepatch for the upcoming 3.1 update which is about a gig. so yea i would have cleared that cap in a few hours.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: 5G is low

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

so true i just cleared 5gb in a single night because i reinstalled my Windows 7 Beta 64bit. so updates, drivers, EVE-Online, World of Warcraft, updates and UI mods for WoW, Ventrilo Client, Updates for EVE. WoW also started its prepatch for the upcoming 3.1 update which is about a gig. so yea i would have cleared that cap in a few hours.
Get a T1, more than 5gb is "abuse".

N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
·Cox HSI
·World Lynx


2 edits

Re: 5G is low

said by patcat88 See Profile :

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

so true i just cleared 5gb in a single night because i reinstalled my Windows 7 Beta 64bit. so updates, drivers, EVE-Online, World of Warcraft, updates and UI mods for WoW, Ventrilo Client, Updates for EVE. WoW also started its prepatch for the upcoming 3.1 update which is about a gig. so yea i would have cleared that cap in a few hours.
Get a T1, more than 5gb is "abuse".
I hope you were being sarcastic...

winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:

God Kills Routers

Every time you d/l over 5 GB on a residential connection, God kills a soho router.

Please, think of the routers.

»www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_e?url···&x=0&y=0

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

so true i just cleared 5gb in a single night because i reinstalled my Windows 7 Beta 64bit. so updates, drivers, EVE-Online, World of Warcraft, updates and UI mods for WoW, Ventrilo Client, Updates for EVE. WoW also started its prepatch for the upcoming 3.1 update which is about a gig. so yea i would have cleared that cap in a few hours.
it would only take me less then 1 hour on this 15/2

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

so true i just cleared 5gb in a single night because i reinstalled my Windows 7 Beta 64bit. so updates, drivers, EVE-Online, World of Warcraft, updates and UI mods for WoW, Ventrilo Client, Updates for EVE. WoW also started its prepatch for the upcoming 3.1 update which is about a gig. so yea i would have cleared that cap in a few hours.
BANDWIDTH HOG!!!!!!

(that was sarcasm)
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

neowulf

join:2000-10-20
Port Orange, FL

Maybe just a mistake?

I think TWC is going to see people rather not be capped, even if they don't have access to FiOS and are on a slower connection. Not everything is about speed, and metered billing circa 1990 didn't work for dial-up with metered hours. I don't want to have to check some meter every day to make sure my bill isn't going to be a few $100 bucks more.

I can understand TWC thinking that they need to protect their own video services, but even in that case they priced them selves out of the market. It just killed me knowing I was paying for channels I never watched or wanted. Most of the TV I was watching any ways was network TV that you get free through OTA broadcasts.

But trying to put a cap on the new medium that people are starting to use to the fullest to save the old medium is not going to work. Is only going to give a big advantage to smaller providers who are trying to break in to the market knowing providing no caps when only 5-10% of the market ever uses more then what their cost to provide. There are always ways to control those users without placing caps.

I have a feeling that just like AT&T's recent TOS "mistake" That TWC is going to come out and say that this cap plan was a mistake and they were really never planning to do it...

maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable


1 edit

Socal.

Well, there is plenty of competition in Socal.... half of the area is served by FIOS - of course not MY area which is AT&T, but I would bet they are not going to cap in Socal because of this competition.

There are several independent DSL sellers too, like DSLExtreme etc, which also have no caps.

I am moving some time later this year, and when I do.... I may change ISP at that same time too, IF TWC is crazy enough to impose caps.

I'd rather have a little less speed, knowing I won't be punished if I download too much.

--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Socal.

said by maartena See Profile :

There are several independent DSL sellers too, like DSLExtreme etc, which also have no caps.
ATT would only be able to put caps on DSL where there are no CLECs at that central office (rural areas). Otherwise the CLECs will have a windfall, advertising no caps DSL to residential customers.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: Socal.

True, DSL Extreme would have a field day if AT&T started capping. They already have excellent pricing and a lax AUP.

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Socal.

said by Bit See Profile :

True, DSL Extreme would have a field day if AT&T started capping. They already have excellent pricing and a lax AUP.
The question is, if all of AT&T and Time Warner's heavy users switch to DSLExtreme, can DSLExtreme handle the traffic? My worry is an overabundance of "hog refugees" would force DSLExtreme to move to a metered system. They'd still have good opportunity to be a little more fair about the allowances and pricing though.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.

JoeIac
Premium
join:2009-03-02
MA
clubs:
·Time Warner Cable
·Comcast
·Verizon FIOS
·Dreamhost

Right Move For The Wrong Reason

I think a 5 gb cap is absurd. I think that it works for wireless broadband carriers because their services are too slow to download video and large files anyway.

Im interested as to what will end up happening in this market, especially given that frontier had planned on implementing the caps, so whether or not they're suddenly dropping all those plans to appear to be the good guys, or not, doesn't change the fact that they had absolutely insane intentions.

I hope they both wind up out of business!

neowulf

join:2000-10-20
Port Orange, FL

Re: Right Move For The Wrong Reason

I sorta agree, I really hate dealing with the big name providers, but there really isn't many choices if you want broadband. Back in dial-up days my best service came from the small little local providers. I would love to see these big providers make more mistakes giving the little guys a chance.

Really need more competition in the broadband department, really that is the biggest problem pretty much they are run like monopolies and are able to control their markets as they wish without fear of losing customers.
Vtr_Racing

join:2006-09-04
Pflugerville, TX
·AT&T Yahoo
·Cox HSI
·AT&T U-Verse

Take their customers!

ATT and everyone else. Take this golden opportunity to take as many of TWC customers as you can. Their plan of offering broadband internet to as many people as they can, doing it, then switching the terms will backfire. This is a classic case of bait and switch.

Aozora

join:2008-11-28
·Comcast

Re: Take their customers!

said by Vtr_Racing See Profile :

ATT and everyone else. Take this golden opportunity to take as many of TWC customers as you can. Their plan of offering broadband internet to as many people as they can, doing it, then switching the terms will backfire. This is a classic case of bait and switch.
This also proves the POINT that we have all made that CAPPED BROADBAND is NOT necessary in any manner.

NO CAPS ARE REQUIRED FOR ISPS TO BE PROFITABLE. They make good profit without caps. You have Verizon there who has been on the market for a long ass time and still is without caps.

They want to upgrade to faster speeds they can't support just to push the idea that caps are a necessity when they are nothing more than an anti consumer measure by the lack the competition in areas.

I rather be on something like 20/5Mbps than 100/20Mbps if it means no cap. 5GB is an absolute trash crap. I blow through it in two days. I can only use my Internet access 2 days of the week with TWC? I think I will pass. I rather go to something like 6Mbps/768Kbps DSL like DSLextreme.

No, nobody needs to be a massive pirate to go over 5GB to insane maniacs who claim only pirates can use broadband for a few hrs.
ryan200

join:2003-06-10
Pine Bush, NY


1 edit

cable tv

i wonder

on cable if they "limit" your connection to 5gb download what about people who subscribe to the cable companies own voip that is included in your download cap?

also what about traffic that you don't request cable gets a lot of broadcast traffic because it is a shared network, as well as all those lovelly port scans from, junk that hits your modem even though you didn't request it. perhaps that doesnt really add up to very much though, but it still sucks to have to have it count against you especially with a cap as small as 5gb.

what if it was 5gb and not 5GB, they rate your connection at 8megabit why would they not cap it at 5gigbit that would be terrible.

i would rather them slow me down than to cap my connection. but that wouldn't keep people from watching streaming video unless they essential destory the connection for streaming video.

they should just face it they did little too late to intice people to use cable tv so they said what am i paying for a service i dont even use and in the depression they shut off what they dont use.

they are afraid of change, afraid of the future.

cable has faster download speeds than dsl that is what inticed people who knew better to use cable in the first place so of course those users download more.

todays society is i want it and i want it now(on demand). they could put more commercials into their on demand programs. have a larger selection of on demand that stays avalaible longer.

now that the vcr is dead people dont have a good way to record what they are not home to watch. (offer free dvr boxes) if its free more people will get it and be happy with your service.

but remember on-demand is easier than dvr because you dont have to set it up to record it, but that would fill in the gap of programs not available on demand.

any cable executives reading this?
Forums » Frontier Abandons Cap Plans In Rochester?


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