 
beerbum
Premium
join:2000-05-06
Reading, PA
clubs: | wow how in the heck did that conflict of interest slip by those lawyers..? | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | Re: wow How did it slip by the judge??? He must be corrupt. | |
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| | elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON | Re: wow The judge is in bed with the same lobbyists | |
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luster
join:2009-03-28
Berlin, MD
1 edit | It's quite possible that PB's council was well aware of the conflict but, was willing to hold his trump card until needed. I probably would have. | |
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luster
join:2009-03-28
Berlin, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: wow It's quite possible that PB's council was well aware of the conflict but, was willing to hold his trump card until needed. I probably would have.
But, the more important question here is, "Why didn't this judge step down from this case to begin with?" In my mind his crime is of equal, if not greater, significance then that of the case being tried. Quite honestly, this judge should be charged, provided we have a clear understanding of the facts here. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | all about playing press. | |
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Wolfy
@bellsouth.net | How did it slip by?... easy... IF they had been found NOT guilty, the lawyers wouldnt have said a word... but in this case, they now have a chance to retry it....
IMHO....
Wolfy | |
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SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13 | Re: How did it slip by?... easy... They saved it in their back pocket like Wolfy said. Smart move imho. | |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by SSX4life  :They saved it in their back pocket like Wolfy said. Smart move imho. thats exactly what they did...by letting it "slip" by, they cant replace the judge now and the mistrail will prevent a double jep on the founders part...they get a free pass, and the trial becomes a joke example of how to play poker the correct way
props to them
and TPB rules! | |
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| | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... Double jeopardy is a US litigation principle. This trial is in Sweden and as such will follow Swedish law. Unless you can point to a similar entanglement in Swedish law that is as immovable as the US version I would suggest watching and learning about a foreign legal system. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by rahvin112 :Double jeopardy is a US litigation principle. This trial is in Sweden and as such will follow Swedish law. Unless you can point to a similar entanglement in Swedish law that is as immovable as the US version I would suggest watching and learning about a foreign legal system. Double jeopardy is protected against by the European Convention of Human Rights Seventh Protocol, Article Four which states "No one shall be liable to be tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the jurisdiction of the same State for an offence for which he has already been finally acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal procedure of that State." All EU members have signed it, which includes Sweden. | |
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ZBart
@niagara.net
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... Erm... If this were declared a mistrial, double jeopardy wouldn't apply here. In such cases, the trial is considered to have been improperly conducted (thus "mis"-trial). If granted, the trial never happened, and as such, the defendants were never technically acquitted nor convicted. A mistrial isn't the same as overturning a judgment. It's just grounds for a new trial, assuming it's worth the expenditure.
A tonne of money used to waste everybody's time, and even more money tossed into the furnace if the state decides to give it another go. | |
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| | | jacour
join:2001-12-11
Ypsilanti, MI | Not that easy. If it is ruled a mistrial, then it is deemed to have been no trial at all and there is no double jeopardy. At least that is how it works in the US, Sweden may be different. Cases get retried in the US all the time. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by jacour :Not that easy. If it is ruled a mistrial, then it is deemed to have been no trial at all and there is no double jeopardy. At least that is how it works in the US, Sweden may be different. Cases get retried in the US all the time. That's what I was thinking too. This is not a "he was innocent but we have new evidence" situation. They will simply be retried and unfortunately for them, the prosecution should be MUCH more thoroughly prepared. This is actually bad for The Pirate Bay. They had technical knowledge and the arrogance of the prosecution on their side the first time. That won't happen again. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: How did it slip by?... easy... Yeah, but chances are they'll have a impartial judge the second time... one who would rule them not guilty. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by KrK :Yeah, but chances are they'll have a impartial judge the second time... one who would rule them not guilty. Impartiality has nothing to do with whether they are guilty or not. The current judge ruled the right decision. no one questioned it until the news was released that he wasn't impartial.
I personally think they'll still be found guilty. Because they are. | |
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| | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... Matt
If you really believe that no one questioned it you must not be paying much attention.
I also think that guilt or innocence will not enter into the equation. It is purely a matter of who the politicians will give in to. The **aa applying pressure or the changing political situation in their own country. Having the fourth largest party in the country grow by 15% in less than one day is not a laughing matter. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by Lazlow :Matt If you really believe that no one questioned it you must not be paying much attention. Or perhaps I just have a different opinion than the frothing at the mouth thieves who feel they are entitled to everything for free? I actually read several law professors and students of the law who all predicted a guilty verdict, well before any of this mess about the corrupt judge came out. I like to research a subject before forming my opinion on the matter and in this case, I read a lot from both sides. They are breaking the law, pure and simple.
Just Google a bit and you'll find all the information you need. Of course, if you limit yourself to pro-thievery sites, it will seem like everyone believes they are innocent and that the ruling was wrong. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: How did it slip by?... easy... Matt
There is a HUGE difference between what you just said in this last post and saying that NO ONE questioned the verdict. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by Lazlow :Matt There is a HUGE difference between what you just said in this last post and saying that NO ONE questioned the verdict. Only if you think in terms of everything being black and white. Most people can infer meaning. I can't possible account for how everyone will read what I type. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... "no one questioned it until the news was released that he wasn't impartial."
How can this be viewed as anything but a black and white statement? Take at look around the net at posts from the date that the PB verdict was released, there were tons of people questioning what was with the judge. This was well before the judge's association with **aa was news. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Matt :Impartiality has nothing to do with whether they are guilty or not. You're right. They aren't guilty.The current judge ruled the right decision. No, it wasn't "right", it was the "correct" verdict his handlers expected... no one questioned it until the news was released that he wasn't impartial. Uh, beg pardon? A lot of people were seriously questioning that ruling right from the second it was announced.
I personally think they'll still be found guilty. Because they are. Nope, they aren't. Of course if they may try and get a ruling of guilty under the new crimes of "aiding", on the grounds that their tracker was useful in "aiding" someone to commit copyright infringement, but it's a weak argument with lots of legal problems, because such a legal standard would make everything liable for "aiding" someone who breaks a law or rule. Example: A gun manufacturer isn't a criminal, but by making firearms, they "aided" a bank robbery, etc etc
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| said by Matt :Impartiality has nothing to do with whether they are guilty or not. What the hell are you smoking? By your reasoning, one of the accused could act as their own judge and the ruling would be completely valid despite them not being impartial.
Impartiality has EVERYTHING to do with the validity of any ruling. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by pwrtoppl :the mistrail will prevent a double jep on the founders part...they get a free pass, and the trial becomes a joke example of how to play poker the correct way A mistrial does not usually result in a double jeopardy issue as no judgment was issued in the original. In cases like this were a mistrial could be declared after a judgment was issued, the original verdict is invalidated so it then is treated as if it never had been issued in the first place. | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
| said by pwrtoppl :said by SSX4life :They saved it in their back pocket like Wolfy said. Smart move imho. thats exactly what they did...by letting it "slip" by, they cant replace the judge now and the mistrail will prevent a double jep on the founders part...they get a free pass, and the trial becomes a joke example of how to play poker the correct way props to them and TPB rules! Mistrials do not invoke double jeopardy. | |
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jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast
| Re: How did it slip by?... easy... said by brandon :said by pwrtoppl :said by SSX4life :They saved it in their back pocket like Wolfy said. Smart move imho. thats exactly what they did...by letting it "slip" by, they cant replace the judge now and the mistrail will prevent a double jep on the founders part...they get a free pass, and the trial becomes a joke example of how to play poker the correct way props to them and TPB rules! Mistrials do not invoke double jeopardy. They were guilty until proven innocent
It isn't even a trial
It was a setup, a kangaroo court paid by and funded by the lobbyist..we need a fair judge who get paid good money whether who win. Yes this judge was corrupt, he is well paid for making an unfair judgement. either he was blackmailed or was bribed in private. | |
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Shriyash
Sungazer
Premium
join:2005-02-23
PuNe, InDiA
| said by SSX4life :They saved it in their back pocket like Wolfy said. Smart move imho. it is a smart move and i hope it pays off. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by Wolfy :
IF they had been found NOT guilty, the lawyers wouldnt have said a word... but in this case, they now have a chance to retry it.... If they had been found not guilty, where would the potential issue or bias be? How would the prosecution argue that the judge was part of the same organization as the industry representatives, and therefor presumably favorable to the prosecution's case, but still ruled against them? The organizations the judge was a member might have legitimate grounds to kick the judge out for ruling against them, but that's not here nor there with respects to the trial.
Whether the defense's lawyer(s) knew or did not know of the judges association prior or during the trial I don't believe has any bearing on the actual prosecution of the defendants, but rather the legitimacy of the legal proceedings without judicial bias. IANAL but I don't think the lawyers have a legal responsibility to "hand over evidence" of the judge's organization membership when they became aware of it. I could see that they could have a possible ethical responsibility in the interest of the integrity of the legal system, but they also have a ethical responsibility to defend their client so if they weren't legally required to object to the judge, this could just be using the legal system to their full advantage. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | meanwhile TPB has won the war. this whole media circus has taken torrent based piracy even more mainstream.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | nice Guess we're not the only country that puts political hacks on the bench.
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It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash | |
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chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23 | not sure of swedish law but predetermined verdicts that get leaked usually do mean a mistrial. The judge is supposed ot be impartial and the decision is made at the bench , NOT in back room without the accused... | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net
| Re: not sure of swedish law said by chronoss2009 :but predetermined verdicts that get leaked usually do mean a mistrial. The judge is supposed ot be impartial and the decision is made at the bench , NOT in back room without the accused... Kind of makes you wonder if the judge's involvement in those organizations had something to do with the leak? | |
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See 14 replies to this post |
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duder
@rr.com
| judge law and order sure for the judge... Mistrial Mistrial Mistrial Mistrial!!!!!!!!! bad judge how much did you get?
free down loads?   | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Hpower
Roflmao
join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA | Bleh I got a feeling this is going to be one long bumpy road ahead for pirate bay. Looks like Sweden is hardcore about copyrights.
Judge: "I KEEL U MYSELF!"
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The Internet is about to go down....it is actually. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| in the words of many... justice is a bit blind whether it comes in USA form or EU form... that said, once you buy an intellectual property.. you can't just as well go back to the store and return it... so should there be a mistrial. IMO, they shouldn't be able to go back (it is well known that court proceedures should have had the judge & other career officals recuse themselves from the case as to prevent bias), but that's just my opinion.. it would be justice for the woman who's 6 year old bought a nintentdo wii game and couldn't get a return because it didn't work and are not technology literate (while the manager kindly but firmly said that's the store's policy) in my mind.. I've known that's been the case since the early 1980s when the Intellectual Property industry got mightly greedy and consumers opened up a new front in the IP wars and the forestalling of technology (from vcr's to mp3 players, to fttp). | |
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scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC | I don't care what country your court is in - Conflict of interest is an automatic "I have to recluse myself" - obviously this judge needs some lessons in ethics repounded into his head (the ones from law school didn't stick the first time, it seems).... | |
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WeRAnonymous
Professional Troll
join:2008-12-10
Ottawa, ON | OH... ...SNAP!  | |
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downloader
@rr.com | Re: OH... He must had been downloading while in the chamber lol | |
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old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Ethics? What's that? Money always triumphs over ethics. Wonder how much the judge was paid by the Swedish Copyright Association for the ruling? Probably the same thing will happen now that the U.S. DOJ is hiring attorneys from the **AA; they will be able to get paid not only by the DOJ, but also get money on the side from their **AA cronies. It's the way the world works. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK |  Only way they could win against TPB was to rig the trial
Classic. | |
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| | old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA | Re: Only way they could win against TPB was to rig the trial and TPB didn't have enough money to get the judge in THEIR pocket. Maybe there was a secret bidding war for the verdict? | |
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Failocracy
@telus.net
| Corporate tribunals anyone? Lets just let the rich form a tribunals to judge all laws and other people in their own best interests and to serve corporate overlords.
Or resurrect jack the ripper and put him in charge of punishing prostitutes well you at it. Jack the ripper czar of prostitution reduction i can see it now... | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Go TPB!
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| donh
join:2006-11-27
Jackson, WY | Policy shift Ah a new well reasoned republican policy. But then you will need an exception for Reagan's and Heston's films. And any others who tow your line or pay the bribe.
Don | |
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paladine
@charter.com
| As an Impartial Bystander I find it truly amazing that the MP** and the **AA can possibly generate publicity as bad as that in the OJ trial. If you had asked me two years back when they were suing 8 year old kids for downloading 'Barney's Greatest Hits' if they could have any worse press, I would have said not in a million years...........but that was then and this is TPB. | |
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EveryName
Wake Up
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Montreal | Re: As an Impartial Bystander Leave the bad publicity to the MAFIAA. They'll succeed. | |
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Pirate Bay Attorney Calls For Mistrial
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