This could get interest I have never had Time Warner and from what I have heard it's ok. I have family with Comcast that have had fairily good look. I only use Charter Phone and Internet which in my area is better than what either company offers.
TV is where people may see a difference but I have Directv which beats them both in HD.
I think they will end up getting split up. What ever the dominate carry in the state is where they go. In my case it would be Comcast.
Re: This could get interest If TWC or Comcast put bids in they'd only pick up the markets that made since to them. So if you didnt live near a Comcast or TWC area you wouldn't get either most likely; you'd be sold to some other company like Southernlink or Windjamer.
Re: This could get interest Suddenlink might be halfway decent, but definitely slower. wndjamme, not sure. Probably not good. Just hope nothing goes to JetBroadband.
Also, what will happen to the DOCSIS 3 rollout in St. Louis? Comcast?
Re: This could get interest that area is pretty much controlled by TWC and MediaCom. So it would be a toss up. TWC would probably build it out only to compete in that area. I don't see MediaCom picking up the areas.
But maybe if Google was serious about how they think the 'Net should run they would pick up some of the areas and make Google Broadband or what ever.
Re: This could get interest But what would happen to DOCSIS 3?
Re: This could get interest finish the build out in that area---offer the service and leave it at that.
Re: This could get interest What service would be offered? As is all too apparent, TWC doesn't want to put any money into infrastructure, instead electing to push exaflood myths and caps with overages. They wouldn't really know what to do with a DOCSIS 3 system...
Re: This could get interest
said by iansltx:They would, everyone doesn't get fired when a market is sold.
What service would be offered? As is all too apparent, TWC doesn't want to put any money into infrastructure, instead electing to push exaflood myths and caps with overages. They wouldn't really know what to do with a DOCSIS 3 system...
It will be grandfathered, and never expanded or orderable again. When a CMTS or CMTS card breaks, the users will be forced off D3.
Re: This could get interest Naa. I don't think they'd just force users off it. I think they'd support, just not expand it out any farther.
As far as Ian saying about not wanting to upgrade there are no actual facts that say they don't want to nor have plans to. That's all rumors and most of it started on here by the wonderful "reporter". Nobody really knows what they're doing in the field or what they have in store in coming months. Just because they don't come out every other week and claiming something new like ATT did when they started U-Verse doesn't mean anything.
TWC will upgrade and its only a matter of time before they announce it to the public.
TWC most likely though wouldn't pick up St. Louis as they don't have any service areas that are close. They'd be better off sold to Comcast (maybe) and especially to MediaCom who supports that area.
Re: This could get interest Charter really doesn't have a life after all this. If they can't afford to pay for their loans now they won't be able to when they come back if they're not getting rid of much debt. The court will rule they need to be sold off to other providers, Comcast, TWC, Suddenlink and Windjamer or some other small provider will start picking them up.
But then there is Cablevision's new way of expanding and competing, and a way for ATT to get into the TV business and basically have fiber already in place.
Saint Louis, MO
Re: This could get interest I will be really surprised if TWC buys a significant portion of Charter(assuming it is sold off). TWC is still paying off all the debt it incurred from its split from TW. Since it did not pay a dividend this year, I suspect its stockholders would balk at them getting further into debt(pushing dividends even further out). Just look at the huge drop in TWC's stock price earlier this year.
I would expect that most of Charter would go to the smaller players. Just like everything they have sold off in the last year or so. Maybe some of the bigger players would consider picking up Charter's more densely populated areas (St. Louis). There is also always the possibility that some venture capital group will take them over in entirety. Depending on how bad the creditors want out, it could be a pretty good deal.
Personally I hope Charter hangs on. They have been improving their systems (admittedly slowly, D3) and they seem to have backed off the cap issue(at least for now) after the huge backlash. If they can essentially eliminate analog cable(the direction they have been headed for the last year), it will free up enough bandwidth to give them a much wider choice of options.
Re: This could get interest TWC would pick them up on the auction block for pennies on the dollar the same as they did with Adelphia. But yes it would make sense for TWC to take over networks that belong to charter when they are close to the TWC network. Like the ones in Ohio. They're bordered by TWC and would make for an easy take over and move everything over to the TWC data centers. Nothing big there.
Venture Capital groups always have high prices- look at WOW they're prices are way higher than what TWC charges and the Internet side is slower for the same price of money.
MediaCom is the most likely company to take over STL though.
Saint Louis, MO
Re: This could get interest hottboiinnc
I think TWC would have to talk a really good game to get their stockholders to go along with them spending any more money. They are already looking at a considerable reinvestment in their systems (upgrading to D3) which they have already shown reluctance to do, reason for low caps. Their stockholders already got mad when they found out that there were not going to be any dividends this year(look at the massive drop in TWC stock earlier this year). I just do not see the stockholders allowing TWC to incur more debt than is absolutely necessary, no matter how good the deal could be. The other thing to consider is that credit is MUCH more expensive and harder to get now, than it was when they got Adelphia. In addition to that they were part of TW at that time and had a lot more assets to back up the purchase.
I did not say I wanted a venture capital group to buy, just that they could. Especially if they can get it for "pennies on the dollar".
Re: This could get interest You should go look at the reason for the drop. That wasn't their problem with the payouts.
Re: This could get interest It most places, ATT Broadband (cable) is now Comcast.
As to CinBell owning a cable company, is it your only one? Charter tends to be in single-cableco markets...
Re: This could get interest Cinci bell bought the cable company to expand their offerings.
They bought it from a Muni. It was HUGE news just never put on here.
And just because charter is in single cable markets doesn't mean a telco couldn't buy them and offer services. They can move all of their services to that network and get rid of the copper plants that are way past out dated. and the best part is they wouldn't have to share this network.
They would be basically doing what they're already doing.
Also there are several Co-Ops that own the local cable company AND the Telco side. go google SherTel in Sherwood, Ohio.
Re: This could get interest VZ is getting rid of the copper plant.
SO it's not against regulation. They're replacing with Fiber. ATT could do the same if they took over an HFC network. move everyone over and BOOM! no more sharing. Sell the network off and or close it. There wouldn't be a need for it as they could upgrade the entire HFC network cheaper than what laying full FTTH or VDSL would be.
You wouldn't have to train anyone. Cable Companies are non-union and the telcos would love that.
Plus how hard is it to train someone to hook up a cable modem? screw the coax into the cable modem...hook the ethernet cord to the modem and into the computer plug modem in. good to go.
Re: This could get interest If you want your data centers to search for them. Many are not listed as a Data Center or a Colo. and some are not listed period.
DSL is shared as well. It is shared at the DSLAM. The old claim that DSL is not shared needs to be given up on. ALL internet is shared and DSL CAN be slowed down if you add to many people to the DSLAM if there is not enough available bandwidth for everyone.
And as far as WindJamer? What about Charter now? they're a joke too. They're the stupid ones for buying all the areas they could for a prem. and then losing their ass on them. Broadstripe must be a joke too. They went to file for bankruptcy and came back with a new name- Just that. Broadstripe. Nobody would want to do business with the old name. What about Suddenlink? they changed their name several times and bought several small markets for a prem. and customers pay out the ass for those services.
Also Fairpoint DSL is only considered a joke by the people on this site and the Unions.
| || The former ATT got out of the broadband business after @Home went out. Comcast took over in most of their markets and sold which ones they did not want. A few of them are in Michigan. Those went to Charter.|
You can get cheap bandwidth any where if you know how to play your cards right. Any company the size of Cablevision could get bandwidth as cheap as they are now even in STL. STL is a HUGE city and home to Nestle Purina USA.
VDSL may put fiber as close to homes as HFC but you have to build out the VDSL network. with the HFC network from Charter its already done in place. Why build a system in an area where it's already built if you can just buy it and take over.
There is no law that says ATT or VZ can't buy that network and use it. It would be better than just leaving it rot or the City to try and run/manage it.
Re: This could get interest Cogent is there. Just because you don't have ATT or Sprint bandwidth available doesn't mean anything. Hell look at my city. We have Cogent and many others that have On-net buildings. L3 even has several centers here.
And out of getting in trouble the only real trouble anyone got into was Google and their shady business of DoubleClick. MSFT doesn't really have any problems in the US only in the EU.
Re: This could get interest Cogent is in the same buildings as others. You should go search it out before knocking them. And it's not their fault they compete on dollar where ATT and VZ won't and charge a prem. for services. Hell I can get a Qwest T1 cheaper than going direct. And that's sad. Price is everything. Not provider.
| In my case it would be Time Warner Cable.. considering Time Warner Cable built out most of Charters WI systems. (With Time Warner doing a systems swap with Marcus Cable in 1997 or 1998 to consolidate service areas.)|
IMO, Paul Allen / Charter paid too much for the cable systems they purchased, considering the condition some of them were in at the time of the sale. (The large majority needed to be rebuilt for 2 way service like cable internet or digital cable.)
Re: This could get interest that is what TWC will do with the systems with Charter the same as they did with Comcast. They'll team up with MediaCom and probably some other company and start spitting and swapping.
Especially in Ohio. TWC will pick up the cities here.
But the price CHTR paid for the systems is what put them where they are. When you pay more than what they system/network is worth and it's not making very much you'll end up in the same place they are now.
This would be a great place for ELINK to get into the Broadband business. Pick up Charter's areas and go from there.
Grants Pass, OR
Charter Reorg allegations are typical It is pretty common for there to be allegations of fraudulent transfers (fradulent transfers are those which occur a short time before bankruptcy filing)- really just a negotiating ploy. One would hope that Paul Allen has enough legal counsel to avoid an actual fraudulent transfer.
| |en102Canadian, eh?
Re: Charter Reorg allegations are typical I tend to agree... there's typically accusations of fraud/mismanagement when companies go into bankruptcy protection.
When investors end up losing their shirts, they want someone to pay.
Gov't accusing someone else of impropriety and fraud? Pot, meet kettle.
Not good Whoa I got a feeling Paul is getting himself into some deep shet....
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
Sounds like other adelphia jail time again.
HahahahAHAHAHA NOW he too can get a mug shot like his buddy bill
no sympathies Having had problems with Charter, if it gets broken up, I won't be sad. Hopefully the workers will get absorbed into AT&T or whoever buys up the bits.
I do hope, though, if the St. Louis market gets sold, it gets bought by a company that is interested in improving the infrastructure rather than applying broadband caps. Which is the same as saying, no to TW.
Re: no sympathies And what company is not looking to apply caps?
ATT has caps in areas, they're expanding. TWC pulled their caps to better look at the prices and products.
in TWC NEO they are telling customers starting next month the Turbo Tier at 15/768 will be $39.99 standard. And if you want Power Boost add $5 to that.
| |morboComplete Your Transaction
a prayer... "It also remains possible that this all ends with Charter being chopped up into bite-sized pieces and gobbled up by healthier cable outfits like Comcast and Time Warner Cable."
it's time that Charter goes away permanently. i only hope that they do get chopped up.
See 20 replies to this post
Poor Economy Yeah it would be great if another company is closed down and thousands more people lose their jobs....woohoo!
Bah! I think hoping the demise of any company when there are so few players in the market is naive'.
Charter was horrible in the great lakes area here and have improved the last two years. Time Warner used to own the Cable System here but sold it off either because the network was horrible and they knew it or Charters check was big enough.
Either was it is another sad tale of a lose lose situation for the customer with no real choices. I will be relegated to AT&T Dsl at 1.5 - 512 @ best if it is even available due to load. 14,000+ from the CO on copper doesn't bode well.
Re: Bah! DoubleK I'm in the same boat as you if they go under I would not be able to even get regualr dsl since it's not offered in my area. Like I said Uverse should be coming but I'm still not a big ATT fan the fastest they have is 18megs I have 20 now with Charter and most likely much faster if docsis 3 ever gets to my area
Track record on Adelphia purchase may haunt TWC. I'm not so sure that regulators would approve TWC buying Charter assets, given how they handled Adelphia. TWC quickly dumped the smaller Adelphia markets it acquired into the hands of a company invented from whole cloth that is mainly controlled by a private equity group and that has contracted everything out to less than stellar contractors. So far, consumer complaints about this new company are skyrocketing, not surprising given the company never existed before the purchase and has no real experience handling a medium-sized, multi-state cable operation (yes, one of the minor investors is a very small cable company in Jupiter, FL, but they had no experience with anything other than a small operation). Comcast is looking for a buyer for the smaller Adelphia assets it doesn't want; however, if it's smart it will not dump those markets into the hands of anyone with money but no track record of running a cable operation.
Re: Track record on Adelphia purchase may haunt TWC. And what areas where sold off of Adelphia that TWC didn't want?
The markets they did not want went to Comcast when it made sense. Those both swapped markets and such and split the Adelphia markets.
Also if it makes business sense to sell off markets that a company doesn't want they will sell them. You nor the gov't has control of that.
get over it.
And again where are you getting your information about Comcast has Adelphia markets for sale?
And again; stop telling businesses how to conduct their business.
Just had someone call.. Asking me if I used cable or satellite, to which I asked if he worked for a local company that sells DirectTV since I've had the clowns call several times before. He then started a spiel asking if I knew Charter had filed for bankruptcy to which I wasn't sure officially did yet since I hadn't been paying attention but I knew it was expected. He kept going on as if this was something new or supposed to be surprising. Then he went on to say Charter had been bought out by "MyCom" (or maybe it was Mediacom but I'm sure he said the former) and that not only would this area be losing about 20 channels but the price would be going to by $12 and the first bill would be a double billing.. Then he went into a spiel trying to sell me into subscribing Direct TV. Hey! Maybe he has some inside info! *coughs* Or just trying to sell just a little too hard.
I'm sure they'll be calling back tomorrow.
Some props for Charter I'll be the first to admit that I've bashed on Charter on more than one occasion. I'll never, ever again used leased equipment since it's been a major source of my issues.
But to know Charter is to know how Charter came to be in my town. Originally throughout the St. Louis area most cable companies started out being built at the community level by subcontractors. Strangely enough the most populated areas got cable last which is against the industry norm. I know at one time there were at least 10 or more different operators that each served a slice of the area.
Standards didn't exist and you could seriously walk one block from your house and get different channels and packages. In St. Louis the cable company was owned by the City itself and was one of the last areas in the entire area to get cable. It finally arrived in the early 80's and comprised of a whopping 20 channels. But it was twenty more than we had ever seen.
Since then the cable company was sold off to a group called TCI Cablevision. They operated for several years and did little to change or better things. AT & T came along and bought out the system. Personally I think they did it to mess everything up as much as they could then sold it to Charter.
What Charter was handed could have been nothing less than a nightmare. I wouldn't be half surprised if they had to rebuild most of what was in place to offer what they do now. Even when the first cable modems hit the area they were already more stable than DSL. That pushed Ma Bell to improve their stuff but no matter what Charter is always a step ahead in speed offerings and is to this day.
The only issue I've had with them was the shoddy Netgear routers that they lease out as part of their home networking package. I went through five of them and had very flaky internet for nearly a half a year. Do yourself a favor and buy your own stuff and if you can get DD-WRT. My service rarely ever has issues, cable TV the same. Very rarely any issues at all. Speeds rock as well.
So imagine the situation Charter is in if this happened to them elsewhere and probably did. Charter's built a good system - as good as anyone else has. But the customers may only be starting to see the results. Now there is a buttload of debt that needs to be paid off from what they spent to build the system. I'd like to see them survive and continue to improve.
God only knows - if they don't AT & T might just buy it back and dismantle the system like they did the first time.
Re: Some props for Charter the ATT Broadband is NOT the same as the ATT today. ATT Broadband was owned by the former ATT. NOT SBC.
back from SBC came into play Ameritech used to own several cable systems they were called Americast but where shitty in service. Those were sold off to some private company and named W.O.W (over priced services). and rebuilt. Columbus Ohio still has WOW and i think Cleveland does as well. But the system is in select areas of the city and only in maybe 4 cities at the most?
The only thing ATT would give you is a cap on your usage. But it would be good to bring in an actual cable company and people that know how to run it, but the services would be outsourced and the jobs would be gone. Or the staff would call a strike they didn't get to become union.
The old POTS network would be tossed out the door though.
| What you state for St Louis is EXACTLY what happened throughout Charter. It's the same story for pretty much every system that Charter has ever aquired. From first hand experience of working in both Charter and Comcast systems in Michigan, I can say Charter's technical quality from the house to the headend is far superior to Comcast's. Charter has an extensive technical quality program, that at first seemed like a collosal waste of time, but 3 years down the line we are finally seeing the benefits. Technicans are working on a pro-active basis before problems crop up, instead of reacting to outages as they occur. Service calls are kept to a minimum. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it could be a hell of a lot worst. Charter is going through the same teething issues in its systems in California and Texas right now. From the horror stories I've heard from various internal sources, the employees out there are ones they kept from the previous system owner, and they cannot keep up with Charter's requirements. They inherited scraps and it takes time and money to turn it around.|
I don't see Charter going away. Investors are just trying to get what money they can, these kind of lawsuits and accusations of fraud are common in Chapter 11 filings. They made an investment and lost money - thats the risk you take. United Airlines was in restructuring for 3 years before coming out of bankruptcy.
The worst I see happening is a 'strategic consolidation and relocation' of Charter's systems. I have nothing to back this up and is based purely on rumors I've heard from a few different sources, but I can see Charter trading some of its outlying systems for other ones that are closer to its existing strongholds in the Midwest or California. A good example might be trading its systems in Texas, Nebraska or New England for other systems in Michigan, Wisconsin or California. The latest one I heard was trading Fort Worth, TX (a Charter system) for Grand Rapids/Muskegon, MI (Comcast). It would have about the same customer count, Charter services all other towns and suburbs around Grand Rapids, it has a call center there and its master headend that feeds the entire state is about 15 miles away. This would be a great move IMO as it would allow Charter to get rid of a system that is a burden, as well as use existing managers that are in MI to cut costs.
Thats just my 2c.
Allen Should Get Nothing Paul Allen should get nothing. The small investors who trusted in the company are getting nothing, so Mr. Allen should be happy to walk away too.