AT&T Issues Statement On Crippled Slingbox App Sorry kids, slinging just not allowed... Yesterday news emerged that the Slingbox application being sold in the iPhone application store wouldn't work over AT&T's 3G network, because the carrier was worried about bandwidth. This comes after several months of tinkering with their terms of service to ensure that it prohibits place shifting, the legal language tinkering with the very definition of "personal computer." AT&T has subsequently issued a statement about the decision to restrict the application to just Wi-Fi. The statement in full: Slingbox, which would use large amounts of wireless network capacity, could create congestion and potentially prevent other customers from using the network. The application does not run on our 3G wireless network. Applications like this, which redirect a TV signal to a personal computer, are specifically prohibited under our terms of service. We consider smartphones like the iPhone to be personal computers in that they have the same hardware and software attributes as PCs.
That said, we don't restrict users from going to a Web site that lets them view videos. But what our terms and conditions prohibit is the transferring, or slinging, of a TV signal to their personal computer or smartphone.
The Slingbox application for the iPhone runs on WiFi. That's good news for AT&T's iPhone 3G customers, who get free WiFi access at our 20,000 owned and operated hot spots in the U.S., including Starbucks, McDonalds, Barnes & Noble, hotels, and airports. AT&T is the industry leader in WiFi. We assume slinging will be ok over 3G when AT&T ultimately releases an application that place shifts AT&T U-Verse content to iPhones using the exact same network.
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 |  |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Assumptions.... said by KrK:"We assume slinging will be ok over 3G when AT&T ultimately releases an application that place shifts AT&T U-Verse content to iPhones using the exact same network."You know what happens when you ASSUME....  You know what though, I bet Karl's 100% right. I hate dragging out this term, but this is what Net Neutrality advocates need to stay focused on. If AT&T prohibits me from "slinging" my TV signal over 3G, but allows their U-Verse service to work over it, we have a huge problem. After all, I'm not even in an AT&T U-Verse (or DSL, or anything) service area and neither are millions of people.
I'll be interested to see how this plays out or if they change their tune when they migrate to LTE. | |
| | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Assumptions.... Absolutely, I agree... but I wouldn't go so far as assuming it will be so.... I'm betting someone will have to call them on it, and then they will have to face the fear of regulation, before they cave.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | Re: Assumptions.... said by KrK: and then they will have to face the fear of regulation, your "assuming" the legislators have the best interest of the consumer in mind rather than the ATT. This just means that ATT will have to up their gratuity to the politicians who have proven that they don't have a clue on broadband matters! | |
| | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Its going to be a pay to play network.
AT&T and others are opening 'app stores' for a reason.
They can 'certify' applications for a network vs. a platform. This will be a crippling move for users, and money maker (on many fronts) for carriers.
Eg. Skype can run over 3G on Windows Mobile, but not for iPhone. Its not because it won't work, its because the carrier / app store agreed to not let it work.
The days of open applications are nearing an end. | |
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| | | | Actually they said, large amounts of data.. this leaves the door open for them to place shift with U-Verse if their app uses 'less data'...
Sometimes I just wish Wireless internet access capability == wired internet access capability, open access to devices, cats and dogs sleeping together... | |
| | | | | said by Matt:If AT&T prohibits me from "slinging" my TV signal over 3G, but allows their U-Verse service to work over it, we have a huge problem. Different use of technology, different bandwidth requirements.
IF, and that's a big IF, AT&T decides to make an app, they certainly won't be dishing out the content from the user's home. There is a reason why the video NOC for U-Verse is in Kansas. And by NOT pushing out data from every single home, they can compress and shape the data better. AT&T will be able to push video content to the iPhone through 3G with considerably less bandwidth costs than Slingbox.
But no, let's go conspiracy theory instead. Never mind the streaming verbiage has been in the TOS since the beginning of time, it's just modified to better represent a technology that is coming up. Randall Stephenson is just laughing in his office in One Bell here in Dallas, rolling around in piles of ill gotten gains, deciding what to do once he takes over every phone company. I bet he's going to start ripping out all the fiber and forcing everyone back to copper, rotary dial, and Bertha at the CO will have to route calls again. | |
| | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Assumptions.... said by psx_defector:said by Matt:If AT&T prohibits me from "slinging" my TV signal over 3G, but allows their U-Verse service to work over it, we have a huge problem. Different use of technology, different bandwidth requirements. It's the 3G network they are worried about, not the users pushing 1Mbps across their wired backbone. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Assumptions.... They also care about people streaming crap from their houses. It's just more immediate with the 3G network.
They ain't about to allow streaming from home. If they decide to make their own streaming app for the iPhone, it's going to ride the U-Verse network from the tower. No one in their right minds would allow for such a large bandwidth hog if they didn't have a way to reduce costs. | |
| | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Assumptions.... said by psx_defector:They also care about people streaming crap from their houses. It's just more immediate with the 3G network. They ain't about to allow streaming from home. If they decide to make their own streaming app for the iPhone, it's going to ride the U-Verse network from the tower. No one in their right minds would allow for such a large bandwidth hog if they didn't have a way to reduce costs. Then why was the Orb streaming application, or any number of webcam streaming applications approved? The retail OrbLive application can do the exact same thing as the Slingbox. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Assumptions.... Probably because they don't suck down the bandwidth like Sling does. 512Kbps spread over a bunch of people per tower does not equal happy usage for all. I'm not familiar with Orb, but I would bet the bandwidth necessary for use is much smaller. | |
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| | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Assumptions.... said by djrobx:Karl, why are you assuming that this is even going to happen? The U-verse set tops are not very powerful. They simply don't have the hardware needed to recompress the stream to something internet streamworthy on the fly. They don't need to. The stream is already MPEG-4 so all they need to do is lower the bitrate. | |
| | | | | | Re: Assumptions.... In today's technology, that's a recompress... | |
| | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Assumptions.... said by jameswade:In today's technology, that's a recompress... What is? It helps if you quote what you're replying to. | |
| | | | | | Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
 ·US Cellular
| Re: Assumptions.... said by djrobx :
Karl, why are you assuming that this is even going to happen?
The U-verse set tops are not very powerful. They simply don't have the hardware needed to recompress the stream to something internet streamworthy on the fly.
Matt said -They don't need to. The stream is already MPEG-4 so all they need to do is lower the bitrate.
said by Matt:said by jameswade:James Wilson said - In today's technology, that's a recompress... What is? It helps if you quote what you're replying to. | |
| | | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Assumptions.... said by jameswade:said by djrobx : Karl, why are you assuming that this is even going to happen? The U-verse set tops are not very powerful. They simply don't have the hardware needed to recompress the stream to something internet streamworthy on the fly. Matt said -They don't need to. The stream is already MPEG-4 so all they need to do is lower the bitrate. said by Matt:said by jameswade:James Wilson said - In today's technology, that's a recompress... What is? It helps if you quote what you're replying to. No recompression is required, the streaming bitrate can be lowered on the fly. | |
| | | | | | | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Assumptions.... Matt,
SLING can vary bitrates on the fly but what the OP is trying to state here is that the Uverse boxes can not. They would require dedication compression/encoding hardware (like sling has). You can't just take an Mpeg4 stream and "lower the bitrate" without transcoding/recompression. | |
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| | | | | Pretty much the same thing at Verizon, TOS says no video, but then they sell their own VCast... | |
|
 Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Stupid AT&T's statement is just stupid for a number of reasons:
1. Bandwidth is bandwidth. It doesn't matter if you are streaming from Hulu or a Slingbox, especially since the Slingbox app is limits its stream to 500 kbps.
2. Other AT&T supported devices, like the BlackBerry, allow Slingbox to stream via 3G. Also ORB works on the iPhone via 3G.
3. The iPhone works on other networks besides AT&T's. AT&T shouldn't care what anyone does on other networks.
So basically AT&T seems to be discriminating specifically against the iPhone for some reason. I can't figure out why exactly though. Even if AT&T wanted to sell their own video service, that doesn't explain why they allow Sling on Blackberry's.
Note, I don't have an iPhone, I just think it's a dumb move on AT&T's part.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Stupid Well, to address your points:
1) You can't watch Hulu on an iPhone. There is supposedly an app in the works, but I am guessing it will be limited too. Of course, Fox/NBC have their weight to throw behind it. Sling doesn't have 1% of their clout or muscle.
2) You have a 100% valid point here. I'm guessing the amount of data usage for those users is low compared to the average iPhone users though. They likely have research somewhere that iPhone users would actually watch it. After all, TV/Video on a 1" screen is awful.
3) The iPhone isn't supposed to run on other networks. You have to unlock it, so this isn't even a consideration.
As to your final point, I agree. It's a dumb, dumb move for AT&T. | |
| | | Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Stupid 1) I didn't know you can't watch Hulu since I don't have an iPhone. I do know you can watch YouTube, so I'll substitute YouTube for Hulu. I've read that Flash support is coming to the iPhone so when that happens, I'm guessing Hulu will work as well.
3) Not in the U.S., but in other countries AT&T isn't used.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Stupid said by Morac:1) I didn't know you can't watch Hulu since I don't have an iPhone. I do know you can watch YouTube, so I'll substitute YouTube for Hulu. I've read that Flash support is coming to the iPhone so when that happens, I'm guessing Hulu will work as well. You have to watch YouTube through an application and yes, Flash has been "coming" to the iPhone since version 1.0. I'm not holding my breath. 
Also, don't be surprised if Hulu switches to Silverlight ... | |
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|  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by Morac:AT&T's statement is just stupid for a number of reasons: 1. Bandwidth is bandwidth. It doesn't matter if you are streaming from Hulu or a Slingbox, especially since the Slingbox app is limits its stream to 500 kbps. 2. Other AT&T supported devices, like the BlackBerry, allow Slingbox to stream via 3G. Also ORB works on the iPhone via 3G. 3. The iPhone works on other networks besides AT&T's. AT&T shouldn't care what anyone does on other networks. So basically AT&T seems to be discriminating specifically against the iPhone for some reason. I can't figure out why exactly though. Even if AT&T wanted to sell their own video service, that doesn't explain why they allow Sling on Blackberry's. Note, I don't have an iPhone, I just think it's a dumb move on AT&T's part. They're not discriminating against the iphone. They're discriminating against slingbox. Unlike ORB, Slingbox is basically plug-and-play, so it's far more likely to get used by a wider audience than ORB does.
ATT's 3g network is already strained. Adding more load to it for something high demand like streaming TV isn't in their interests. Especially since people would notice how oversaturated ATT's network is and call in to complain.
ATT sells TV services, and they're working on their own video system that would work with uverse to compete with slingbox. Has nothing to do with the iphone. If the blackberry app store had a slingbox app, they'd not allow that over 3g either.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
| | | Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
2 edits | Re: Stupid said by tiger72:They're not discriminating against the iphone. ... If the blackberry app store had a slingbox app, they'd not allow that over 3g either. There is a blackberry Sling app and it does support 3G. My brother has a BlackBerry Bold and it works on his phone. So AT&T is definitely discriminating against the iPhone here. My only guess as to why is that the iPhone is more popular and that AT&T has more leverage over Apple than Blackberry. | |
| | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Stupid said by Morac:said by tiger72:They're not discriminating against the iphone. ... If the blackberry app store had a slingbox app, they'd not allow that over 3g either. There is a blackberry Sling app and it does support 3G. My brother has a BlackBerry Bold and it works on his phone. So AT&T is definitely discriminating against the iPhone here. My only guess as to why is that the iPhone is more popular and that AT&T has more leverage over Apple than Blackberry. I'm also guessing that not as many BB users would care to watch video on a 1.5" screen at a crappy resolution. Most BB users are business-types also who don't care for such things. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Stupid said by Matt:said by Morac:said by tiger72:They're not discriminating against the iphone. ... If the blackberry app store had a slingbox app, they'd not allow that over 3g either. There is a blackberry Sling app and it does support 3G. My brother has a BlackBerry Bold and it works on his phone. So AT&T is definitely discriminating against the iPhone here. My only guess as to why is that the iPhone is more popular and that AT&T has more leverage over Apple than Blackberry. I'm also guessing that not as many BB users would care to watch video on a 1.5" screen at a crappy resolution. Most BB users are business-types also who don't care for such things. i do. the Slingplayer on my Bold works phenomenally well. the picture quality is near perfect quality. it may sometimes drop its quality for a few seconds to compensate for latency, but 95% of the time it is near perfect. on wifi, its closer to 100%. i think the most data i have used in a month using my slingplayer is 700 MB - that is watching about an hour a day 5 days a week on my lunch break. | |
| | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Stupid This is more of what I am referring to: »www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/07/···t-there/
Look at the first picture in that link. Which do you think would be better to watch movies on? Therefore, more users would watch movies on the iPhone than would on the BB platform, hence AT&T's concern. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Stupid well, yes the screen is larger, but the Bold has a better picture quality per pixel. the bold is 480x320 and the iPhone is 320x480, but the iPhone's screen is larger, hence the pixels are "stretched" so to speak. i was simply disputing that point that you stated the Bold had a "crappy" resolution - its actually outstanding.
and while i agree that the slingplayer should NOT be blocked in any way shape or form, its easy to see why the company would want to. anyone who owns a slingbox would need NO need for any video services. i get full frame rate high quality video "slung" from a STB in my house, meaning i have access to DVR functions, OnDemand, hundreds of channels, etc. | |
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| | | said by Morac:Other AT&T supported devices, like the BlackBerry, allow Slingbox to stream via 3G. Also ORB works on the iPhone via 3G. AT&T is simply exploiting the fact that iPhone is a closed system that requires apps to be approved prior to being installed. That plus Apple is obviously in bed with AT&T, and that is shown by the fact that they did not approve the Sling Player for iPhone until it was modified to only work with WiFi. AFAIK, other platforms (BlackBerry, Windows Mobile) do not require apps to be approved, so AT&T really has no control over how these phones are used, other than to charge a fortune to those who go over the cap limit.
said by Morac:The iPhone works on other networks besides AT&T's. AT&T shouldn't care what anyone does on other networks. Yes, but in the US it is only supported on AT&T. If you unlock it and use it on other GSM network, do not expect any support from Apple or AT&T.
Of course, if you are referring to other countries where other carriers are partnering with Apple to offer iPhone, you are correct, Apple should not be restricting Sling Player to WiFi only just because AT&T does not want slingers on their network. But then again, we do not know specifically how Sling has structured their code to prevent use of their software on cell networks. That plus Apple has regional restrictions on iPhone apps, not all apps are available in all regions where iPhone is.
said by Morac:So basically AT&T seems to be discriminating specifically against the iPhone for some reason. I can't figure out why exactly though. Even if AT&T wanted to sell their own video service, that doesn't explain why they allow Sling on Blackberry's. As I said earlier, they are discriminating just because they can. They are using the fact that everything needs to go through Apple before it ends up on iPhones and the fact that Apple is willing to bow down to their demands. Had Apple allowed anyone to load anything they wished onto iPhones as RIM and Microsoft do, AT&T would not be able to discriminate against iPhones either.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
| | | | said by Morac:AT&T's statement is just stupid for a number of reasons: 1. Bandwidth is bandwidth. It doesn't matter if you are streaming from Hulu or a Slingbox, especially since the Slingbox app is limits its stream to 500 kbps. 2. Other AT&T supported devices, like the BlackBerry, allow Slingbox to stream via 3G. Also ORB works on the iPhone via 3G. 3. The iPhone works on other networks besides AT&T's. AT&T shouldn't care what anyone does on other networks. So basically AT&T seems to be discriminating specifically against the iPhone for some reason. I can't figure out why exactly though. Even if AT&T wanted to sell their own video service, that doesn't explain why they allow Sling on Blackberry's.Note, I don't have an iPhone, I just think it's a dumb move on AT&T's part. I think you hit the nail on the head. AT&T is doing this because they can. You wont see them do this for blackberry or WM because the makers of the OS don't care what AT&T wants. AT&T was maximum profits, plan and simple. And since AT&T has an exclusive agreement with the maker of the OS AND phone, its a no brainier for them wanting to throw little hissy fits like this because they can tell the OS maker what to do. | |
| |  jlanci
join:2005-08-30
Staten Island, NY | said by Morac:AT&T's statement is just stupid for a number of reasons: 1. Bandwidth is bandwidth. It doesn't matter if you are streaming from Hulu or a Slingbox, especially since the Slingbox app is limits its stream to 500 kbps. 2. Other AT&T supported devices, like the BlackBerry, allow Slingbox to stream via 3G. Also ORB works on the iPhone via 3G. 3. The iPhone works on other networks besides AT&T's. AT&T shouldn't care what anyone does on other networks. So basically AT&T seems to be discriminating specifically against the iPhone for some reason. I can't figure out why exactly though. Even if AT&T wanted to sell their own video service, that doesn't explain why they allow Sling on Blackberry's. Note, I don't have an iPhone, I just think it's a dumb move on AT&T's part. Do you wanna know the real reason?
I believe it is ATT's way of getting back at Apple for not extending their exclusivity deal until 2011. | |
| | | Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Stupid said by jlanci:Do you wanna know the real reason? I believe it is ATT's way of getting back at Apple for not extending their exclusivity deal until 2011. That makes no sense since without the exclusivity deal, AT&T has no leverage over Apple. If Apple wanted to they could have told AT&T to along the sling player or they would go with other carriers.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | | | jlanci
join:2005-08-30
Staten Island, NY | Re: Stupid Yea but then Apple would be breaking the deal and probably would have to pay ATT alot of money for it. | |
|
 LBDSLLightning BoltVIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI | What about a web based work around I don't have a slingbox, nor know how it technically works, but would it be possible to develop a web based "player" Where a user goes to a website, and then able to enter in whatever info slingbox needs to connect to your home box, and then view via a browser. Which in at&t's own words would be allowed. Just a thought.
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See 12 replies to this post | |
| |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
 ·VOIPo
·Choice One Commu..
| Re: A new form of virus. said by Mr Matt:  AT&T has created a new disease to disappoint their customers. Customers that have just paid big bucks for an iPhoney. They are now finding that the control voice at AT&T is limiting how they can use their new iPhoney. The name of the new disease by the way is the iPhoney Sling Box Pox. That's the best you could do?
Does it suck? Yes. But would it suck less when you get hit with one of these massive usage overage charges? Sure.
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"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
|
 jhboricuaExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN | Maybe they should worry more about their moldy fridges Yuck! 7 hospitalized after office fridge cleanup
SAN JOSE, Calif. - An office worker cleaning a fridge full of rotten food created a smell so noxious that it sent seven co-workers to the hospital and made many others ill.
Firefighters had to evacuate the AT&T building in downtown San Jose on Tuesday after the fumes led someone to call 911. A hazmat team was called in.
What crews found was an unplugged refrigerator crammed with moldy food.
Authorities say an enterprising office worker had decided to clean it out, placing the food in a conference room while using two cleaning chemicals to scrub down the mess.
The mixture of old lunches and disinfectant caused 28 people to need treatment for vomiting and nausea.
Authorities say the worker who cleaned the fridge didn't need treatment — she can't smell because of allergies.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
| |  atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | Re: Maybe they should worry more about their moldy fridges Don't blame AT&T, blame the nasty employees who left the food in the refrigerator. | |
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atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | RE These same people complaining about the Slingbox App would be the same people complaining if everyone was using the app, and the network grinded to a halt because of it. i find it interesting that people cannot make an attempt to fix their own country and the corrupt officials in power, and the bleeding of jobs in the economy, but they are more concerned about an iPhone app. That is when you know some peoples priorities are really skewed. | |
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See 12 replies to this post | |
| | Crap It's all CRAP.
You know why?
I have two phones, a personal Iphone that I pay for and a business phone, a HTC 8525, and you know what? I'm watching my Slingbox HD right now on my HTC 8525 over AT&T's 3g network. I'm getting a brisk 1956kbps connection over the 3g and its working just fine, the picture looks great for such a tiny screen. No halts, no drop outs, and I only have 4 out of 5 bars. (I live in Houston, TX)
AT&T are a bunch of opportunistic LIARS. This is a double standard from AT&T and its bullshit. There are about 300,000 Iphone owners with Slingboxes and they are spread out all over the US. (this info came from Slingcommunity.com and I acknowledge that the data could be sketchy, but no one over there is refuting the number so I think it may be close.) This is a total non-issue on over utilization and as far as I am concerned, until AT&T actually lets users use this Slingbox app on the 3g network and we actually see the network fail. Otherwise I am going to claim that this is purely an anti competitive move from AT&T. We need net-neutrality laws like ASAP. | |
| | | | Re: Crap I also forgot about about Orb. So this is actually a TRIPLE standard from AT&T since Orb is allowed on the iphone with 3G and AT&T blessed it and it does exactly the same thing. In fact, you can use your Slingbox with Orb. A quick Google search shows me this.
AT&T, you fail. | |
| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | The Deathstar is closing in on your co-ordinates. I suggest you make the jump to Lightspeed immediately.
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| | gigantePremium
join:2000-06-30
Anchorage, AK | said by axiomatic: I'm watching my Slingbox HD right now on my HTC 8525 over AT&T's 3g network. I'm getting a brisk 1956kbps connection over the 3g and its working just fine You can't get 1956kbps in the Sling app, it's limited to 512kbps or something. | |
| | | | | Re: Crap Not if you edit the settings file. It's really not that hard. Google it. But you are correct. Without editing it does cap at 512kbps, I forgot that I modified mine ages ago. (like over two years) | |
|
 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | uh... "That said, we don't restrict users from going to a Web site that lets them view videos. "
sounds like bandwidth isn't really the problem. why is AT&T lying? | |
| |  gerglesGregPremium
join:2003-05-30
South San Francisco, CA
·Cox HSI
| Re: uh... Because they basically own Apple for at least a few more months and can force Apple not to approve apps they don't like (or to cripple them to worthlessness, like this one).
Note to Apple: as long as you keep pulling stunts like this, people are going to keep jailbreaking their phones, they're going to keep going outside your walled garden, and they're going to keep using their phones the way THEY want to. | |
| | | | | | | Re: uh... Ummmm they've been allowing it for YEARS. I've had my Slingplayer for Smartphones for more than three years. I use it almost every day in my lab at work.
AT&T are a bunch of liars. | |
| | | morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | they allow users to go to youtube or abc.com and watch lost episodes but disallow slingbox? am i missing something here? | |
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| | At&t sucks At&t sucks there is no doubt about it. They just plain suck. | |
| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| A few notes on the network while I agree that this is a lame thing to do, and that AT&T will probably come out with some U-Verse thing later (which will be served up from U-Verse HQ rather than customer homes, more than likely, to save bandwidth) here are some facts:
1. HSDPA 3.6 is quite inefficient in its use of spectrum. 3.6 Mbps down, 1.4 Mbps up in a 5 MHz channel. In contrast, EvDO Rev. A does 3.1/1.8 in a 1.25 MHz channel though most people only see 1-2/300-800.
2. AT&T has a limited amount of spectrum available in 850 and 1900 bands for both 2G and 3G. They messed with the network so now 3G is on 850, but even at that point 10MHz of spectrum, which is probably all that's available at 850 and half what's available at 1900, can only handle 3.6 Mbps of downstream data and a few simultaneous phone calls. Not a lot of capacity there.
SXSW killed AT&T's network. You couldn't place a call with the iPhone. AT&T has HUGE capacity issues in times like those, since their technology isn't efficient enough to use the valuable spectrum wisely. I'm sure that's a partial reason why Sprint is hunky dory about video on all their phones (EvDO network, a fair amount of spectrum in each market) versus AT&T.
Is this really admissible? No. Is there anything AT&T can do about it, short of buying T-Mobile and using their spectrum? Not really. Are they upgrading for more capacity? Yes, HSDPA 7.2 will cram double the bits per Hz of HSDPA 3.6. Will this help Slingbox users? Probably not...why improve when you can stagnate? Will it allow AT&T to have a usable network? Yes.
LTE will probably solve this bandwidth apocalypse on AT&T's side, but that's not for a few years yet, and you'll need a new phone to use it. Gotta love technology. | |
| |  mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
·TekSavvy DSL
| Re: A few notes on the network The thing that really gets me about this situation is because AT&T complained about bandwidth constraints, Apple is not allowing it at all for any carrier when in fact Rogers in Canada is fine with it and would have no problems allowing it on their network since they do not have the same problems with bandwidth. | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Remember all these amounts are shared among all users. (3.6*number of instances of HSDPA)/users on tower, it makes DOCSIS look better. | |
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| | ATT is a joke here in OKC, OK They always put their customer LAST. The reason they are doing this is because the CAN with the heavily restricted iPhone. It's a great phone but it would be much better as a CDMA device and not on ATT's crap network.
Sereral things make the ATT network not able to work with the Slingplayer:
1. Truely a lack of bandwidth. There isn't enough to go around for the amount of towers vs. bandwidth vs. customer load. They rape us for 30 dollars a month but really they don't have enough room for all of us to really use what we pay for. I have an iPhone because the good exceeds the bad. In a couple of years when handsets are better and our Altel system here is improved by Verizon, I'll be leaving the ATT idiots.
2. Their junky system needs a tweek. I can't even keep a 24k audio stream going mobile. How would it work with video rolling down the road? Forget it. If a person is serious about doing mulitimedia, then Sprint or another CDMA network is the answer. At my house, which is right in the middle of town, I go from 3g to Edge to no signal. The good thing about ATT is they have towers in the rural areas that are their own. The bad thing is they can't even make a decent dial tone without drops in the city.
Does anyone know when the millstone comes off Apple's neck? (ATT exclusive contract) Surely it's not a forever deal. The way I see it, ATT needs Apple a WHOLE lot more than Apple needs ATT and their restrictive policies.
PR | |
| | atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | Re: ATT is a joke here in OKC, OK iansltx just listed some good points regarding the problems carriers are faced with. You just choose to hear what you want to hear, and that's fine. You can keep beating on your drum, but there will be very few who choose to listen at this point. | |
| | | | said by YourCallDropped :
If a person is serious about doing mulitimedia, then Sprint or another CDMA network is the answer. Oh yeah, that's the answer. Go to Verizon/Sprint because you driving down the road watching your favorite TV show streamed from home will NEVER break on their network.
Give me a break, you are the joke here.
Is it that the carriers are being stingy with bandwidth/upgrades, or is it that users have an unrealistic expectation of what the network should do? This ranks right up there with people saying Linux sucks because they can't run Microsoft Word on it. Some things just ain't gonna happen, no matter how much you stamp your feet and hold your breath. | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | AT&T = 666 AT&T's Management worships the Devil, is the new AntiChrist rapes our women and children, funds the Taliban, tells illegal alien to come take over to our country, messed up our economy and last but not least FCKS WITH MY SLINGBOX AND MY IPHONE!
WE NEED TO PUT AN END TO AT&T. | |
| kd6caeP2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Palmdale, CA Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| What's the point of 3g network if you can't use it? I don't have an Iphone, so please correct me if any of my points are incorrect. Not only is the slingbox app not allowed to work on the 3G network, but I believe even something as simple as the skype app for Iphone is not allowed to work over the 3G network. Why exactly is this? Skype uses considerably less bandwidth than any video stream would. I believe skype's bandwidth is about 56kbps for a single voice call, so what's the big deal here? If you can't do more advanced things with your Iphone via the 3G network, then why even have a 3G network? I'll soon be getting a phone, and when I do, I want to be able to do anything I may wish to do, be it browse a web site, or make a skype call, and not have to be forced to use a WIFI network I may not be near in order to do it! Can Iphone users not even listen to streaming internet radio either? Good grief it's crazy. | |
| | TheGhostPremium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL | Re: What's the point of 3g network if you can't use it? The Skype app is most likely not allowed because it would eat into at&t's profits from the voice-minutes. at&t would lose $20/month/subscriber just on people that would drop from 900 minutes/month to 450 minutes/month. Plus, people could use Skype for international calls without paying at&t usury rates. | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | 3G networks were made for bragging rights and are a gimick.
They powered by n*1.5mbitps T1s which are shared with voice traffic too.
Each voice users on a cell network uses 6-14kbitps depending on what codecs AT&T put on their phones, or what codecs their phone supports from the factory, voice basically runs at 1980s dialup speed.
Now take that 14kbitps each user is using, now turn it into 200 or 500 kbitps. (we assume that users will watch video/browse data intensive websites at the same durations as they use their voice traffic) The network collapses. I'm still waiting for the wireless videophone that I've been promised for 40 years. 3G always steals spectrum from 2G voice and 2G data. 3G is unsustainable, its a gimick.
4G isn't any better, it will be like very slow backwards cable modem service. 40 mbitps per tower, I guess a tower serves 500 people, and about 50 will be using their handsets at any time, similar to a cable modem service. But atleast its dedicated spectrum. | |
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| | Users must be willing to pay for the spectrum and bandwidth Before the Slingbox can be used on cellular networks, users must be prepared to cover the cost. Spectrum is hugely expensive, and so is tower backhaul. It might well be possible to run a Slingbox if the user paid, say, $200 per month. | |
| | TheGhostPremium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL | Re: Users must be willing to pay for the spectrum and bandwidth said by SuperWISP:Before the Slingbox can be used on cellular networks, users must be prepared to cover the cost. Spectrum is hugely expensive, and so is tower backhaul. It might well be possible to run a Slingbox if the user paid, say, $200 per month. They are already capped at $5GB before at&t starts to rip them a new one with 'overage charges', so they ARE already paying for up to 5GB a month (at&t used to call that 'unlimited' btw).
The issues is probably 2 fold:
1) at&t's network is not capable of supporting this low bit-rate streaming at the rates the expect people to use it (even though other similar applications are already allowed, ie: YouTube, Orb, etc)
2) at&t is planning a competing product for U-Verse and does not want the competition | |
| | | | Slingbox already works on AT&T's network. Been using it on my HTC 8525 for over three years.
The singling out of the iphone users in particular is the real issue here, especially since we already pay for a (faux) unlimited data plan. | |
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| | Pine Apple Thats what you get for buying a tightly controlled product.
Never thought i would take Microsoft's side, but i have had the luxury to use windows mobile phone for last 4 years. No instance of being boxed in on what i could install or use.
Hope to see a good Linux OS for Phone soon, not controlled by a company. i would feel good to move to it, like i did for all my computers. | |
|  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Encrypt That Sucka' I keep my Slingbox on the other side of a VPN server.
Neither AT&T nor anyone else know what kind of content I'm streaming.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Encrypt That Sucka' One day you will start to get calls from "AT&T Mobility Network Security" when your handset plan is pushing through way above 5GB. | |
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Assumptions....
A new form of virus.
