  baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Not yet Lets see them do some VDSL+ line bonding before we get too excited | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
2 edits | Re: Not yet said by baineschile :Lets see them do some VDSL+ line bonding before we get too excited [sarcasm]Too bad Cisco will sell you the modem for $5000, and the CO line card for $100000 to do VDSL line bonding, and its the only vendor that offers it in the first place because of a bogus patent.[/sarcasm] | |
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 |   cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08 Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·Verizon Wireless B..
·AT&T DSL Service
| From DC Comics and Warner Bros:
Dear Broadband Reports,
Your use of the Superman scratch logo on your website is copyright infringement. It doesn't matter if you drew a replicated version either. Trust me, Disney sues on less. Superman stands for truth, justice, and all that stuff. We object to using the scratch logo with companies I've frankly never heard of or my assistant could Google. Please put a link with the Superman logo to www.DCComics.com or www.Superman.com in the future. Resistance is futile. I just love the Borg. No, I am not an RIAA lawyer.
Sincerely Yours,
Ira Levin, P.A. Levin, Bernard, and Mickelchevski, L.L.P. Los Angeles, New York, London | |
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  funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" -- I heard that yesterday attributed to Ben Scott from Free Press (he was talking about newspaper consolidations).
But doesn't the same thing apply?
It's not like Frontier and Verizon compete, so does does a Super-Frontier make it not compete in some better way?
Maybe consolidation isn't a better way or even a foregone conclusion. If we can do better for ourselves by leaving our banks in favor of our credit unions, why can't we similarly operate a co-op telecommunications company? Get the profit motive out of the way and replace it with a quality motive. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL | |
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 |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" said by iansltx :In Texas there are a lot of co-ops. THe largest one is rolling out 20/3 FTTH for $60-$70 per month depending on whether ou sign a contract and take a bundle. Hill Country Telephone Co-op on the other hand is just now rolling out 3/768 DSL for $70/month. Then again their offering is aimed at very rural folks. The problem is that even if you don't have a profit motive wiring rural areas is expensive. When you have a profit motive things get even worse. C'mon guys, 1024/128 DSL? I can get better upload speeds with Po-Dunk Wireless, utilizing Linksys-in-Tupperware technology! 1024/128? thats fast. 384/128 for $40/mo sounds better. Want 1.5/768? $180 per mo for the "telecommuter" plan, and you must have a business account. Our DSLAM 1996 vintage DSLAM was bought used in 2001, and it was financed on our sub-prime corporate credit card, plus we run our whole CO's DSL service off a couple bonded AMI T1s for a couple hundred miles to the nearest POP. Our T1 loops use equipment older than you with 200 amplifiers in the loop to the POP. | |
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 |  |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" SOurce? Also, how rural are you? | |
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 |  |  |  |   funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC | Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" I think the sarcasm detector might need a Friday boost!  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  wierdo
join:2001-02-16 Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" The only thing that made me think you were joking was the comment about a used DSLAM. I figured as loath as at&t is to get rid of 30 year old equipment that surely 10 or 15 year old equipment wouldn't stand a chance in hell of showing up on the used market. -- It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  | |
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 Bob61571
join:2008-08-08 Washington, IL | What is Rural? Just want to know how "Rural", "Suburban", or "Urban" are defined.
If you're really Rural, no cable company serves you. | |
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 |   baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Re: What is Rural? How many homes per square mile.
Country - 2-4 homes sq/mi Rural - 5-50 homes sq/mi Suburban - 51-250 homes sq/mi Urban/MDU - 250+ | |
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 |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | Re: What is Rural? That doesn't even work when it involves the Metro areas like Metro Seattle, home to Microsoft. That's not actually "rural" | |
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 |  |  |   PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| Re: What is Rural? said by hottboiinnc :That doesn't even work when it involves the Metro areas like Metro Seattle, home to Microsoft. That's not actually "rural" Microsoft is not in Metro Seattle. Nowhere near it, actually. They are headquartered in suburban Redmond. | |
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@oceanic.com
1 edit | Re: What is Rural? said by PolarBear :said by hottboiinnc :That doesn't even work when it involves the Metro areas like Metro Seattle, home to Microsoft. That's not actually "rural" Microsoft is not in Metro Seattle. Nowhere near it, actually. They are headquartered in suburban Redmond. huh?
The Seattle metropolitan area covers from Tacoma clear north to Everett (and before you know it - from Olympia to Bellingham).
Redmond is definitely in metro Seattle.
And to the OP's point - Verizon is unloading it's Oregon presence - Intel (and a whole slew of tech companies) in Washington County - is in METRO Portland. | |
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join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | I'll go with that. Just found out it'd cost me $9k to get cable out here...the existing plant is a bit under half a mile away. I'm rural I suppose. | |
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 |   jchambers28
join:2007-05-12 Alma, AR | telco spin off I wish century tell would spin of my area to Att century tel sucks bad. | |
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 |  |   inteller Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK
| Re: telco spin off yes if centurytel is the rural future then I'll just stay in the past. Those thugs thrive on monopoly status and know nothing about competition. I see them getting broken up in a few years. They are the primary reason rural broadband penetration is so bad. | |
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join:2001-02-16 Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| Re: telco spin off said by inteller :yes if centurytel is the rural future then I'll just stay in the past. Those thugs thrive on monopoly status and know nothing about competition. I see them getting broken up in a few years. They are the primary reason rural broadband penetration is so bad. Perhaps it's more because of their predecessors, but I have yet to have any complaint with CenturyTel in any of the markets in which I've dealt with them.
They went above and beyond making my dry pair SDSL work out in Colorado. When we couldn't make it work at first, they were perfectly happy to let me bring one of my modems to the CO and test to see which half of the line was giving us trouble.
We have their DSL service out in Alabama, and it's been well within the expected reliability. Not the best, but better than some I've seen and our facility there is located a couple of miles out of town.
The sad thing is that the DSL's reliability is only slightly worse than the T1 we have. -- It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  | |
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 |  |   CaptainRR Premium join:2006-04-21 Blue Rock, OH | Dont even go there. You dont know what it is like to have a rural at&t phone line. It sucks, all I get is 19.2k dailup at the house with never seeing anything better than that. | |
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 |  |  |   mikey
@sprintlink.net
| Re: telco spin off said by CaptainRR :Dont even go there. You dont know what it is like to have a rural at&t phone line. It sucks, all I get is 19.2k dailup at the house with never seeing anything better than that.
try less than 9.6k | |
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join:2009-01-21 Downs, KS | Re: telco spin off I agree with this guy, they need to sell off all rural areas to the local clec, lec, or coop that actually gives a damn about providing service to rural/country communities and not making a buck. | |
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 |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off "End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access."
Then y not just charge more, if it cost more? | |
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 |  |   TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off said by me1212 :"End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access." Then y not just charge more, if it cost more? Because it is REGULATED. The state, thru the PUCs, decide what can be charged. And what they allow is less than the costs involved. The telco can't just raise rates when they want. | |
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join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off So they r making less than it cost them to provide service? Well then I cannot blame them for doing this, y would you stay in an area where u cannot make money. | |
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 |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off Don't forget those same telco's CAN and DO get USF money and in some states like MO do not regulate much on price. That was a story even on here. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off said by hottboiinnc :Don't forget those same telco's CAN and DO get USF money and in some states like MO do not regulate much on price. That was a story even on here. The bottom line is this - Verizon wouldn't sell the lines off if they were making money on it. If they were profitable they would keep those customers. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
1 edit | Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off VZ would sell them off regardless. They only want the areas where they can get in easy and put out FiOS. Many of the areas most likely doesn't want them. They're prices are sky high and service is shitty.
Also they have to be making something if VZ is keeping the VZ Business side which only caters to business services which they obtained after taking over MCI/UUNET. VZ just wants fast ROI and they want it yesterday, and they plan on doing that by cherry picking their areas. | |
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 |   roymustang Premium join:2002-01-12 Oxford, MS | Good point. The solution to this is to go ahead and regulate on the national level. | |
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 |  |   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off said by roymustang :Good point. The solution to this is to go ahead and regulate on the national level. Why ? Once 4G comes around, rural areas can be served at the same level as metros, probably better due to low population. | |
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 |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off Why wait for 4G LTE? We can do it now with 4G WiMAX. It's just ATT and VZ wants to wait and build their network later that will only be used for Cell service anyway.
Sprint and Clear/wire have the right idea and more and more companies will start going out with WiMAX. | |
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 |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
1 edit | said by DaveNJ :said by roymustang :Good point. The solution to this is to go ahead and regulate on the national level. Why ? Once 4G comes around, rural areas can be served at the same level as metros, probably better due to low population. And what company is going to build those rural towers without being forced to at gunpoint (continuous fines) from the govt?
At most you can hope for is the 2G and 3G towers that were created by law under the 800 mhz auction and grants by the FCC in the 1980s (and those coverage requirements don't exist anymore), will get upgraded to 4G. Why would any traditional cell carrier build more rural towers? Charity? | |
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 |  PastTense5
join:2007-05-15
| Besides USF as mentioned there are couple other things: Interconnect fees: Rural telecoms have traditionally got a major chunk of their revenues from the long-distance carriers. Labor costs: The smaller rural telecoms are not unionized and thus don't pay big salaries to the Communication Workers of America members. | |
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 |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off which in turn gives them money to deploy FTTH and other services faster. | |
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 |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | My point exactly. | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| said by TKJunkMail :End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access. You argument makes no sense, since rural carriers can just bill it to the USF. | |
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 |  lacklusterbb
join:2009-03-12 | I hate to disappoint you, but your argument fails. I was in shock how much more telephone service cost when I moved to a rural area from Philly. It's the cities that are subsidized. | |
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  chd176
join:2003-01-10 Winfield, AL
·CenturyLink
| not that bad... CenturyTel isn't really that bad. In some areas they actually offer FTTH I believe the speed is 20/2? I know it's 20 down not sure on the upload. In all other markets they have 10/768 on ADSL2+, granted it's not mind blowing speeds like cable or verizon fios but compared to ATT it's pretty good. Plus these speeds are available in rural america where typical they are the only high speed provider, yes it's a monopoly in many cases but hey it's better than nothing. -- 10,000/768 CenturyTel PPPoE DSL line (really 5,000/768 ) Now it's really 1500/256...again lol | |
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  aaront
@llbankerdayton.com | USF? But I thought the Universal Service Fund helped subsidize these rural areas? If these telcos shed all of their rural operations, then CERTAINLY these USF fees would disappear overnight!
Riiiiiiight.... | |
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 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| power in numbers all of the small providers should make one big consortium so that they can at least get good negotiating power for next gen FTTP equipment. deep last mile fiber will most likely be the solution for *MOST* suburban builds, with wireless repeaters pushing out to rural areas. i can't think of a reason why a density of 5-50 customers would *NEED* FTTP/N/C-- Doesn't make sense. A series of wireless repeaters and cheap dsl remote terminals should be completely acceptable to the ruralist of the builds.
In times past, strict limits on where a company could build it's network (particularly telcos) seemed to hamstring rural builds. This is by-in-large not the case anymore (the modern duopoly reconfiguration underway not withstanding).. so if a rural customer wants service and is willing to pay a reasonable surcharge, they should be allowed "IN" to an adjacent build. | |
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 |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | Re: power in numbers they do in Ohio its called ComNet and Bright.net | |
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  Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | Union Wireless In Wyoming we have Union Wireless. I am here to tell you in the areas where Union is in direct compatition with Qwest, Union is killing them. Wyoming has always been at the short end of the stick when it comes to good telephone service, First AT&T or the highway, Then US West, customer service you don't need no stink'n customer service. Finally Qwest, screw you and the horse you road in on, (this told to you by some poor soul with a third world accent) When US West and then Qwest started to Choke Cherry pick Wyoming The Union Telephone Company was the only telco in a position to take over. At first there was a lot of worry over this, Now however people who have Union Telephone service are very pleased with what they have.
Here is their history:
The History of Union Telephone
On January 28, 2006, Union Telephone Company celebrated their 93rd anniversary. Union Telephone Company was incorporated under Wyoming law on January 28, 1914, only 38 years after Alexander Graham Bell spoke those famous words "Mr. Watson, come here. I want you!" on the first telephone. Union Telephone Company's name came from the merging of the Smith's Fork Mutual Line, the Black's Fork Telephone Line and the Lonetree-Linwood Telephone Company. The company began operations serving grounded rural lines on a homemade switch that used 30/40 and 30/30 Winchester rifle cartridges as plugs and jacks. In 1946, the Fort Bridger Telephone Company merged with Union Telephone Company. In 1956, John D. Woody, the founder of Union Telephone, had grown well past retirement age and found the company was not producing enough income to support him and his family. The Board of Directors of Union Telephone Company agreed to offer the whole company to AT&T for the sum of $1.00. AT&T refused the offer. As part of the REA loan paperwork, Union sought and received certificates of Public Convenience and Necessity in both Wyoming and Utah. In 1979, Union installed one of the first two digital switches in the state of Wyoming. This switch presently resides in the Central Office in Mountain View, Wyoming.
In July of 1990, Union Telephone began it's cellular division under the name of Union Cellular with eight cell sites. Today, Union Cellular covers over 123,611 square miles with 122+ cell sites throughout Wyoming, Northwestern Colorado, and parts of Utah. Union Telephone has expanded their services, offering Internet, Digital Subscriber Line(DSL), and cable TV in some markets.
In April 1994, a sales agreement was made between Union and US West for Union to purchase some of the US West exchanges. This agreement was finalized on October 26, 1994 when Union took possession of the exchanges serving Hanna, Saratoga, LaBarge, Encampment, Rock River, McFadden, and Shirley Basin, Wyoming. These exchanges added to the already served areas of Mountain View, Fort Bridger, Lyman, Urie, and McKinnon, Wyoming; Christmas Meadows, Manila, Dutch John, and Greendale, Utah; and Ladore, Colorado.
Union Telephone bases its successful history on its dedication to being family owned and operated, and prides itself on family values.
»www.unionwireless.com/default.aspx -- I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain in Eruption | |
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 |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: time to clean up USF and if you take this money away from carriers that only focus on the rural areas what is going to happen? They'll go under and we'll be bailing them out or ATT will be moving in and they'll end up with dial-up due to ATT wouldn't want to support anything else.
The USF should ONLY be for Rural Carriers that service rural areas. And the telco's shouldnt decide what is rural and what is not. | |
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 |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: time to clean up USF said by hottboiinnc :and if you take this money away from carriers that only focus on the rural areas what is going to happen? They'll go under and we'll be bailing them out or ATT will be moving in and they'll end up with dial-up due to ATT wouldn't want to support anything else. The USF should ONLY be for Rural Carriers that service rural areas. And the telco's shouldnt decide what is rural and what is not. Simple, turn all the carriers into non-profits/co-ops, and stop USF payments to anything without a 501(c) designation, no dividends, no stock, limit "director" compensation to 200K a year, and mandate a per nonprofit carrier trust fund for capital improvement/expansion. Another idea force carriers to issue stock/shares to subscribers and only subscribers, prevent stock issue/bonuses/options to any employees of the carrier, there is no incentive for profit now, just breaking even, all profit would either lower rates, or go towards capital improvements.
Telecom companies are just a business, telecom is a means to an end, they have no incentive to do anything pro-network or pro-consumer unless motive for profit. | |
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 jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22 Boone, NC
| Phone, DSL, etc It seems to me that rural areas are getting the shaft again. I think that 4G wireless technologies have the best opportunities to serve these underserved areas. WiMax can be used at 3-6mpbs at distances up to 30 mi from a base antenna I believe. Thats assuming the customer has an outside directional antenna at their premesis probably and relative line of sight. All of the 4G technologies do not require line of sight closer to the towers I think.
LTE in the long run appears to be the best overall. The only downside is that when VZ and ATT implemenent LTE it will take forever for it to be offered in small town and rural locations. Also, you can guarantee it will be fairly expensive for what you get and have some ridiculous 10-40G caps on the service which means you won't really be able to take advantage of its full capability.
I don't know if Clearwire has any kind of cap on their service. Satellite sucks for similar reasons. Not only is the latency horrible but the caps are too restrictive and service is too expensive although its a reasonable solution where no others are possible assuming you can afford it. | |
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 jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22 Boone, NC
| Rural service If I lived in a rural area I think my choices in this order would be searching for 1. Cable First if its avaiable or 2. DSL if I am close enough to a an RT or CO.. then I'd look for 3G as a solution from VZ or ATT. After that, only as a final possibility I'd look at Satellite.
In fact, I work at a Hotel where I live. Our chef lives in a place that is beautiful. I had to go to his house to fix his computer last year. He is typical of the rural broadband problem. He lives at the foot of a mountain about 5 mi outside of Blowing Rock, NC. He lives in a nice house but it is on a dirt road and he can only Get voice grade POTS service where lives. There is no cable and the nearest DSL is almost 2 miles up the road from him. Also, where he lives there is no Cell Service from VZ or ATT at all. So, he pays for Hughesnet and their limited silly caps and expensive service that goes out sometimes when it rains.
I say, why should a person in that situation have to move 3 miles up the road just to get Broadband. Why is there not at least ONE tower within a couple of miles of his location that has 3G. Its ridiculous. The phone companies in particular have been ignoring customers like this for years. Personally, I think they need a kick in the @$$ from the government to make them roll out at least basic DSL to places like this even if it means having a backhaul with a small RT installed in a place like that. | |
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 jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22 Boone, NC
| Contrast to the chef situation On the other hand I live in town in Boone, NC where Appalachian STate U is located. Just a short distance from where Chef lives I have access to (admittedly crappy) Charter service where I could have 5, 10, or even 16mpbs service (though its overpriced at that speed).
Additionally, AT&T has DSL service at 768K, 1.5mpbs, 3mpbs, and 6mpbs of which I am now an AT&T customer myself. I am quite happy with the service at least until they start capping and then I'll drop them like a hot rock. I am about 7000 feet from the CO which means that I get excellent service and my line is good for the top 6mpbs service.
Finally, VZ has EVDO Rev A coverage here in town that works well and that I use occasionally on my smartphone for email, a bit of web, etc.
So its too much of a stark contrast. Here in town everything you could almost want is available. In fact, the local phone coop that operates outside the city limits here is rolling out FTTP in some places.
It is ridiculous the contrasts that exist just between being in town and then only being a few miles out of town. | |
|
 equivocal
join:2008-01-23 USA | They're just waiting... The big telcos are waiting for the rural telcos to build out the last mile then they'll come in claiming to be a CLEC and demand the access they fought tooth and nail to deny when they were the ILEC. | |
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  linicx Caveat Emptor Premium join:2002-12-03 United State
·CenturyLink
| What A Joke I've had rural Internet connections for 15 years in OK, MO and IL. AT&T was their telco. There was no choice. There was no competition. AT&T services Century Telephone and the local cable company which is close to 40 miles from my location. And my good luck was to be the last house in the neighborhood figuratively and in reality. I started with Century Telephone. It was a miserable experience I do not wish to repeat soon. After fighting repeated service calls and replacing all the copper to the house, I still had an average of 256 down even though I was paying $100 per month for the premium bundle. After 19 months I had enough. I changed companies.
Now I average close to 5000/500 and I do not have 6-10 interruptions per day; I don't have any. I don't have no-nothing entry level tech support telling me to reboot when the problem is in the local CO, and I can talk to IT when I want to. It is the best thing that has happened to me in years.
National telco and cable companies all have the same attitude that rural America is ignorant and not worth bothering with. They milk us dry and then move on - just like the company before them did. There is no real competition and that is the problem. We don't have to have FiOS, but, they could open the pipeline and that is exactly what my company did when the VoIP phone they gave me would not work. This telephony device is 10x better than Vonage ever provided and I have 10x more options at no charge per month. It is part of the bundle.
National telco and cable companies can give GOLD service. They simply do not want to. Customer loyalty in rural America means nothing to them. Eventually they will learn the public is fickle - especially since we can now read the news, watch TV and movies on the cell phone. . -- Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside | |
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