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story category The Rise Of The Rural Super Telco
Frontier, Centurytel, Fairpoint: the future of rural America?
(old news - 10:15AM Friday May 15 2009)
tags: competition · business · telco
While many people lament the fact that Ma Bell is essentially reassembling herself to the glassy-eyed stares of well-lobbied regulators, one thing's standing in her quest to re-coagulate: rural America. Both telcos and cable operators are starting to shed more rural markets, unwilling to invest the time and resources into markets that deliver a lower return on investments. This of course creates opportunities for smaller carriers.

Fairpoint now owns Verizon's New England networks, Frontier will soon own Verizon's rural networks most everywhere else, and Cenurytel and Embarq are fusing to create a new operator. Our friend Bernie Arnason at Telecompetitor explores the rise of the "rural super carrier," and wonders about AT&T and Qwest's next move:
That leaves AT&T and Qwest to reveal their rural plans. Will AT&T shed their rural assets as well? They have a lot to shed. The wildcard among the RBOCs may be Qwest, because they have an opportunity to become the rural 'super' carrier themselves. There has been speculation that Qwest would divest itself of its long distance and enterprise units and basically morph back into its US West heritage.
Our question as a consumer-focused website remains squarely on what happens to these customers when they're offloaded. As Fairpoint's struggles highlight, there's a real risk of these carriers biting off too much too soon, something that usually results in horrible customer service (see Fairpoint or even Comcast). Smaller, debt-loaded carriers dealing with the lower ROI of rural markets during a recession also raise a lot of questions about when exactly rural Americans will see next-generation broadband upgrades.

There's also the question of how exactly these carriers hope to compete with cable. Cable operators serve many of these rural markets due to the since-gutted local franchise reform laws, and although such reports may be overly optimistic, many analysts peg DOCSIS 3.0 penetration at close to 100% in just a few years. There are competitive reasons Verizon is offloading many of these markets, and smaller operators (with less cash and fewer lobbyists) may not find the row any easier to hoe.

All of this of course leads into exactly what Uncle Sam has planned when it comes to shoring up the nation's coverage gaps. It's pretty clear that rural America is going to need some help.

Related:
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  2. Pittsburgh, Verizon Haggling Over FiOS
  3. AT&T U-Verse Drops In Baton Rouge
  4. DSL Vs. Carrier Pigeon
  5. Verizon's New Wireless Pricing Is An Insult
  6. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  7. AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
  8. FiOS Growth Slows
Forums » The Rise Of The Rural Super Telco
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Post a:

baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Not yet

Lets see them do some VDSL+ line bonding before we get too excited
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY


2 edits

Re: Not yet

said by baineschile See Profile :

Lets see them do some VDSL+ line bonding before we get too excited
[sarcasm]Too bad Cisco will sell you the modem for $5000, and the CO line card for $100000 to do VDSL line bonding, and its the only vendor that offers it in the first place because of a bogus patent.[/sarcasm]

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Pensacola, FL
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From DC Comics and Warner Bros:

Dear Broadband Reports,

Your use of the Superman scratch logo on your website is copyright infringement. It doesn't matter if you drew a replicated version either. Trust me, Disney sues on less. Superman stands for truth, justice, and all that stuff. We object to using the scratch logo with companies I've frankly never heard of or my assistant could Google. Please put a link with the Superman logo to www.DCComics.com or www.Superman.com in the future. Resistance is futile. I just love the Borg. No, I am not an RIAA lawyer.

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funchords
Hello
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·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

"Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

"Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float" -- I heard that yesterday attributed to Ben Scott from Free Press (he was talking about newspaper consolidations).

But doesn't the same thing apply?

It's not like Frontier and Verizon compete, so does does a Super-Frontier make it not compete in some better way?

Maybe consolidation isn't a better way or even a foregone conclusion. If we can do better for ourselves by leaving our banks in favor of our credit unions, why can't we similarly operate a co-op telecommunications company? Get the profit motive out of the way and replace it with a quality motive.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

In Texas there are a lot of co-ops. THe largest one is rolling out 20/3 FTTH for $60-$70 per month depending on whether ou sign a contract and take a bundle.

Hill Country Telephone Co-op on the other hand is just now rolling out 3/768 DSL for $70/month. Then again their offering is aimed at very rural folks.

The problem is that even if you don't have a profit motive wiring rural areas is expensive. When you have a profit motive things get even worse. C'mon guys, 1024/128 DSL? I can get better upload speeds with Po-Dunk Wireless, utilizing Linksys-in-Tupperware technology!
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

said by iansltx See Profile :

In Texas there are a lot of co-ops. THe largest one is rolling out 20/3 FTTH for $60-$70 per month depending on whether ou sign a contract and take a bundle.

Hill Country Telephone Co-op on the other hand is just now rolling out 3/768 DSL for $70/month. Then again their offering is aimed at very rural folks.

The problem is that even if you don't have a profit motive wiring rural areas is expensive. When you have a profit motive things get even worse. C'mon guys, 1024/128 DSL? I can get better upload speeds with Po-Dunk Wireless, utilizing Linksys-in-Tupperware technology!
1024/128? thats fast. 384/128 for $40/mo sounds better. Want 1.5/768? $180 per mo for the "telecommuter" plan, and you must have a business account. Our DSLAM 1996 vintage DSLAM was bought used in 2001, and it was financed on our sub-prime corporate credit card, plus we run our whole CO's DSL service off a couple bonded AMI T1s for a couple hundred miles to the nearest POP. Our T1 loops use equipment older than you with 200 amplifiers in the loop to the POP.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO

Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

SOurce? Also, how rural are you?

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC

Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

I think the sarcasm detector might need a Friday boost!
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY


1 edit

Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

said by funchords See Profile :

I think the sarcasm detector might need a Friday boost!
Thought I was joking egh? (usually I am tho)

»www.swiftel.net/internet/dslmain.html
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP

Re: "Tying two bricks together doesn't make them float"

said by patcat88 See Profile :

said by funchords See Profile :

I think the sarcasm detector might need a Friday boost!
Thought I was joking egh? (usually I am tho)

»www.swiftel.net/internet/dslmain.html
The only thing that made me think you were joking was the comment about a used DSLAM. I figured as loath as at&t is to get rid of 30 year old equipment that surely 10 or 15 year old equipment wouldn't stand a chance in hell of showing up on the used market.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

What is Rural?

Just want to know how "Rural", "Suburban", or "Urban" are defined.

If you're really Rural, no cable company serves you.

baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Re: What is Rural?

How many homes per square mile.

Country - 2-4 homes sq/mi
Rural - 5-50 homes sq/mi
Suburban - 51-250 homes sq/mi
Urban/MDU - 250+
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: What is Rural?

That doesn't even work when it involves the Metro areas like Metro Seattle, home to Microsoft. That's not actually "rural"

PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne

Re: What is Rural?

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

That doesn't even work when it involves the Metro areas like Metro Seattle, home to Microsoft. That's not actually "rural"
Microsoft is not in Metro Seattle. Nowhere near it, actually. They are headquartered in suburban Redmond.

oahucableguy

@oceanic.com


1 edit

Re: What is Rural?

said by PolarBear See Profile :

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

That doesn't even work when it involves the Metro areas like Metro Seattle, home to Microsoft. That's not actually "rural"
Microsoft is not in Metro Seattle. Nowhere near it, actually. They are headquartered in suburban Redmond.
huh?

The Seattle metropolitan area covers from Tacoma clear north to Everett (and before you know it - from Olympia to Bellingham).

Redmond is definitely in metro Seattle.

And to the OP's point - Verizon is unloading it's Oregon presence - Intel (and a whole slew of tech companies) in Washington County - is in METRO Portland.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
I'll go with that. Just found out it'd cost me $9k to get cable out here...the existing plant is a bit under half a mile away. I'm rural I suppose.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

The question this topic brings up is why are the major telcos selling off the rural last mile business. And that answer is fairly straight forward.

Local phone business is still regulated and rates are set by state PUCs. Regulators took advantage of the fact that the national carriers like Verizon & AT&T could bury loses from areas where costs were higher than revenues amongst their more profitable business lines.

Verizon, and I guess eventually AT&T, can spin off these losing segments by selling them to smaller telcos. And the regulators will have to let these smaller rural telcos raise rates or see them go out of business.

End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access.

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR

telco spin off

I wish century tell would spin of my area to Att century tel sucks bad.

inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

Re: telco spin off

yes if centurytel is the rural future then I'll just stay in the past. Those thugs thrive on monopoly status and know nothing about competition. I see them getting broken up in a few years. They are the primary reason rural broadband penetration is so bad.
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
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Re: telco spin off

said by inteller See Profile :

yes if centurytel is the rural future then I'll just stay in the past. Those thugs thrive on monopoly status and know nothing about competition. I see them getting broken up in a few years. They are the primary reason rural broadband penetration is so bad.
Perhaps it's more because of their predecessors, but I have yet to have any complaint with CenturyTel in any of the markets in which I've dealt with them.

They went above and beyond making my dry pair SDSL work out in Colorado. When we couldn't make it work at first, they were perfectly happy to let me bring one of my modems to the CO and test to see which half of the line was giving us trouble.

We have their DSL service out in Alabama, and it's been well within the expected reliability. Not the best, but better than some I've seen and our facility there is located a couple of miles out of town.

The sad thing is that the DSL's reliability is only slightly worse than the T1 we have.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.

CaptainRR
Premium
join:2006-04-21
Blue Rock, OH
Dont even go there. You dont know what it is like to have a rural at&t phone line. It sucks, all I get is 19.2k dailup at the house with never seeing anything better than that.

mikey

@sprintlink.net

Re: telco spin off

said by CaptainRR See Profile :

Dont even go there. You dont know what it is like to have a rural at&t phone line. It sucks, all I get is 19.2k dailup at the house with never seeing anything better than that.


try less than 9.6k
act eth guy

join:2009-01-21
Downs, KS

Re: telco spin off

I agree with this guy, they need to sell off all rural areas to the local clec, lec, or coop that actually gives a damn about providing service to rural/country communities and not making a buck.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

"End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access."

Then y not just charge more, if it cost more?

TKJunkMail
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·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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1 edit

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

said by me1212 See Profile :

"End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access."

Then y not just charge more, if it cost more?

Because it is REGULATED. The state, thru the PUCs, decide what can be charged. And what they allow is less than the costs involved. The telco can't just raise rates when they want.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

So they r making less than it cost them to provide service? Well then I cannot blame them for doing this, y would you stay in an area where u cannot make money.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

Don't forget those same telco's CAN and DO get USF money and in some states like MO do not regulate much on price. That was a story even on here.

TKJunkMail
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Avalon, NJ
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Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

Don't forget those same telco's CAN and DO get USF money and in some states like MO do not regulate much on price. That was a story even on here.
The bottom line is this - Verizon wouldn't sell the lines off if they were making money on it. If they were profitable they would keep those customers.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
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1 edit

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

VZ would sell them off regardless. They only want the areas where they can get in easy and put out FiOS. Many of the areas most likely doesn't want them. They're prices are sky high and service is shitty.

Also they have to be making something if VZ is keeping the VZ Business side which only caters to business services which they obtained after taking over MCI/UUNET. VZ just wants fast ROI and they want it yesterday, and they plan on doing that by cherry picking their areas.
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

The bottom line is this - Verizon wouldn't sell the lines off if they were making money on it. If they were profitable they would keep those customers.
They are guaranteed to make a profit, 8-12 percent by law in most states. That's the wonder of regulated monopolies.

Gone are the days when long distance subsidized the rest of the system. The rural telcos get USF money. That is the extent of their subsidy.

Verizon is selling these systems not because they don't make money, but because they don't make enough money. They'd rather service areas where they can roll out unregulated services on which they have full authority to set prices as they see fit.

Gone are the days when companies (and stockholders) are willing to make a steady profit. Growth is a must. Verizon's only way to make the numbers look better is to sell more services over the same line. Selling off the low-ARPU areas is just one way to cook the books.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.

roymustang
Premium
join:2002-01-12
Oxford, MS
Good point. The solution to this is to go ahead and regulate on the national level.

DaveNJ
No Fear

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New Jersey
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Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

said by roymustang See Profile :

Good point. The solution to this is to go ahead and regulate on the national level.
Why ? Once 4G comes around, rural areas can be served at the same level as metros, probably better due to low population.
hottboiinnc
ME

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Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

Why wait for 4G LTE? We can do it now with 4G WiMAX. It's just ATT and VZ wants to wait and build their network later that will only be used for Cell service anyway.

Sprint and Clear/wire have the right idea and more and more companies will start going out with WiMAX.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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Verizon came out and said their LTE service would provide 8-12 Mbps speeds. That, with AdrenaLine, would be 12-16k wire feet on lower-grade wiring (24AWG) iwth ADSL2+. So unless you're REALLY out in the sticks (more than 3 miles from the CO) the telephone company will meet or beat LTE's speeds. In addition, DSL probably won't have as low caps as LTE, and DSL can happen now.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY


1 edit
said by DaveNJ See Profile :

said by roymustang See Profile :

Good point. The solution to this is to go ahead and regulate on the national level.
Why ? Once 4G comes around, rural areas can be served at the same level as metros, probably better due to low population.
And what company is going to build those rural towers without being forced to at gunpoint (continuous fines) from the govt?

At most you can hope for is the 2G and 3G towers that were created by law under the 800 mhz auction and grants by the FCC in the 1980s (and those coverage requirements don't exist anymore), will get upgraded to 4G. Why would any traditional cell carrier build more rural towers? Charity?
PastTense5

join:2007-05-15

Besides USF as mentioned there are couple other things:
Interconnect fees: Rural telecoms have traditionally got a major chunk of their revenues from the long-distance carriers.
Labor costs: The smaller rural telecoms are not unionized and thus don't pay big salaries to the Communication Workers of America members.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

which in turn gives them money to deploy FTTH and other services faster.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
My point exactly.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
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Actually by running operations in an efficient manner rural co-ops have in some places built "gold plated networks". I guess it's because of interconnect fees or whatever that they charge to the "big boys" but co-ops and I assume the rural-type telcos run significantly differently than the likes of AT&T and Verizon. Both models are profitable, but we're seeing that AT&T and Verizon models need higher density to thrive.

Now if Verizon would stop sitting on my market and sell it to somebody...anybody...that'd be awesome. Town of 10k+ and still no DSL.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

End result - the rural areas can no longer be subsidized by more profitable urban areas and will have to pay the real costs of supplying that last mile access.
You argument makes no sense, since rural carriers can just bill it to the USF.
lacklusterbb

join:2009-03-12
I hate to disappoint you, but your argument fails. I was in shock how much more telephone service cost when I moved to a rural area from Philly. It's the cities that are subsidized.

TKJunkMail
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1 edit

Re: Question arises on WHY the rural last mile is being spun off

said by lacklusterbb See Profile It's the cities that are subsidized.
No, they are cheaper to maintain due to the density. Therefore their costs are lower.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

Try a time machine!

If you take a ride back in a time machine to the 20's and 30's, you will find that most rural telephone service provided by Cooperatives! The Cooperatives were financed by low interest Rural Electrification Administration Loans.

With the Senate and Congress in the back pocket of the Broadband ISP's, I do not hold out to much hope for deployment of rural broadband soon.

See 34 replies to this post
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms

Story needs a correction.

Regarding the statement:

"Fairpoint now owns Verizon's New England networks":

There are six New England states. Fairpoint bought properties in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

Verizon remains unchanged in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Massachusetts especially is a big market.

(Regarding Connecticut, this is mostly ATT, which (as SBC) had taken over the former SNET. Verizon does serve a small part of Connecticut around Greenwich).

chd176

join:2003-01-10
Winfield, AL
·CenturyLink

not that bad...

CenturyTel isn't really that bad. In some areas they actually offer FTTH I believe the speed is 20/2? I know it's 20 down not sure on the upload. In all other markets they have 10/768 on ADSL2+, granted it's not mind blowing speeds like cable or verizon fios but compared to ATT it's pretty good. Plus these speeds are available in rural america where typical they are the only high speed provider, yes it's a monopoly in many cases but hey it's better than nothing.
--
10,000/768 CenturyTel PPPoE DSL line (really 5,000/768 ) Now it's really 1500/256...again lol

aaront

@llbankerdayton.com

USF?

But I thought the Universal Service Fund helped subsidize these rural areas? If these telcos shed all of their rural operations, then CERTAINLY these USF fees would disappear overnight!

Riiiiiiight....
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

power in numbers

all of the small providers should make one big consortium so that they can at least get good negotiating power for next gen FTTP equipment. deep last mile fiber will most likely be the solution for *MOST* suburban builds, with wireless repeaters pushing out to rural areas. i can't think of a reason why a density of 5-50 customers would *NEED* FTTP/N/C-- Doesn't make sense. A series of wireless repeaters and cheap dsl remote terminals should be completely acceptable to the ruralist of the builds.

In times past, strict limits on where a company could build it's network (particularly telcos) seemed to hamstring rural builds. This is by-in-large not the case anymore (the modern duopoly reconfiguration underway not withstanding).. so if a rural customer wants service and is willing to pay a reasonable surcharge, they should be allowed "IN" to an adjacent build.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: power in numbers

they do in Ohio its called ComNet and Bright.net

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net


1 edit

Union Wireless

In Wyoming we have Union Wireless. I am here to tell you in the areas where Union is in direct compatition with Qwest, Union is killing them. Wyoming has always been at the short end of the stick when it comes to good telephone service, First AT&T or the highway, Then US West, customer service you don't need no stink'n customer service. Finally Qwest, screw you and the horse you road in on, (this told to you by some poor soul with a third world accent) When US West and then Qwest started to Choke Cherry pick Wyoming The Union Telephone Company was the only telco in a position to take over. At first there was a lot of worry over this, Now however people who have Union Telephone service are very pleased with what they have.

Here is their history:

The History of Union Telephone

On January 28, 2006, Union Telephone Company celebrated their 93rd anniversary. Union Telephone Company was incorporated under Wyoming law on January 28, 1914, only 38 years after Alexander Graham Bell spoke those famous words "Mr. Watson, come here. I want you!" on the first telephone. Union Telephone Company's name came from the merging of the Smith's Fork Mutual Line, the Black's Fork Telephone Line and the Lonetree-Linwood Telephone Company. The company began operations serving grounded rural lines on a homemade switch that used 30/40 and 30/30 Winchester rifle cartridges as plugs and jacks. In 1946, the Fort Bridger Telephone Company merged with Union Telephone Company. In 1956, John D. Woody, the founder of Union Telephone, had grown well past retirement age and found the company was not producing enough income to support him and his family. The Board of Directors of Union Telephone Company agreed to offer the whole company to AT&T for the sum of $1.00. AT&T refused the offer. As part of the REA loan paperwork, Union sought and received certificates of Public Convenience and Necessity in both Wyoming and Utah.
In 1979, Union installed one of the first two digital switches in the state of Wyoming. This switch presently resides in the Central Office in Mountain View, Wyoming.

In July of 1990, Union Telephone began it's cellular division under the name of Union Cellular with eight cell sites. Today, Union Cellular covers over 123,611 square miles with 122+ cell sites throughout Wyoming, Northwestern Colorado, and parts of Utah. Union Telephone has expanded their services, offering Internet, Digital Subscriber Line(DSL), and cable TV in some markets.

In April 1994, a sales agreement was made between Union and US West for Union to purchase some of the US West exchanges. This agreement was finalized on October 26, 1994 when Union took possession of the exchanges serving Hanna, Saratoga, LaBarge, Encampment, Rock River, McFadden, and Shirley Basin, Wyoming. These exchanges added to the already served areas of Mountain View, Fort Bridger, Lyman, Urie, and McKinnon, Wyoming; Christmas Meadows, Manila, Dutch John, and Greendale, Utah; and Ladore, Colorado.

Union Telephone bases its successful history on its dedication to being family owned and operated, and prides itself on family values.

»www.unionwireless.com/default.aspx
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

See 10 replies to this post

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
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time to clean up USF

what would solve the shedding of these rural areas by big telco is taking away their USF funding and tighting auditing the minor funds they do receive.

everyone agrees that USF is a huge slush fund joke. telco thinks that they will have this pot o' money to do what they want with, but if we decide that they no longer serve rural areas then they only get a tiny percentage of the funds that are closely watched then suddenly, i think things will change. using the funds for rural wiring should be mandated. the fund should also be phased out after a set period of time.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Re: time to clean up USF

and if you take this money away from carriers that only focus on the rural areas what is going to happen? They'll go under and we'll be bailing them out or ATT will be moving in and they'll end up with dial-up due to ATT wouldn't want to support anything else.

The USF should ONLY be for Rural Carriers that service rural areas. And the telco's shouldnt decide what is rural and what is not.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: time to clean up USF

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

and if you take this money away from carriers that only focus on the rural areas what is going to happen? They'll go under and we'll be bailing them out or ATT will be moving in and they'll end up with dial-up due to ATT wouldn't want to support anything else.

The USF should ONLY be for Rural Carriers that service rural areas. And the telco's shouldnt decide what is rural and what is not.
Simple, turn all the carriers into non-profits/co-ops, and stop USF payments to anything without a 501(c) designation, no dividends, no stock, limit "director" compensation to 200K a year, and mandate a per nonprofit carrier trust fund for capital improvement/expansion. Another idea force carriers to issue stock/shares to subscribers and only subscribers, prevent stock issue/bonuses/options to any employees of the carrier, there is no incentive for profit now, just breaking even, all profit would either lower rates, or go towards capital improvements.

Telecom companies are just a business, telecom is a means to an end, they have no incentive to do anything pro-network or pro-consumer unless motive for profit.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Agreed. Verizon should be forced to drop the USF now that they've divested the vast majority of their rural markets. Do the same thing with AT&T if they decide to divest anyone. Qwest actually covers urban and rural areas so nothing could be done to them.
jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

Phone, DSL, etc

It seems to me that rural areas are getting the shaft again. I think that 4G wireless technologies have the best opportunities to serve these underserved areas. WiMax can be used at 3-6mpbs at distances up to 30 mi from a base antenna I believe. Thats assuming the customer has an outside directional antenna at their premesis probably and relative line of sight. All of the 4G technologies do not require line of sight closer to the towers I think.

LTE in the long run appears to be the best overall. The only downside is that when VZ and ATT implemenent LTE it will take forever for it to be offered in small town and rural locations. Also, you can guarantee it will be fairly expensive for what you get and have some ridiculous 10-40G caps on the service which means you won't really be able to take advantage of its full capability.

I don't know if Clearwire has any kind of cap on their service. Satellite sucks for similar reasons. Not only is the latency horrible but the caps are too restrictive and service is too expensive although its a reasonable solution where no others are possible assuming you can afford it.
jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

Rural service

If I lived in a rural area I think my choices in this order would be searching for 1. Cable First if its avaiable or 2. DSL if I am close enough to a an RT or CO.. then I'd look for 3G as a solution from VZ or ATT. After that, only as a final possibility I'd look at Satellite.

In fact, I work at a Hotel where I live. Our chef lives in a place that is beautiful. I had to go to his house to fix his computer last year. He is typical of the rural broadband problem. He lives at the foot of a mountain about 5 mi outside of Blowing Rock, NC. He lives in a nice house but it is on a dirt road and he can only Get voice grade POTS service where lives. There is no cable and the nearest DSL is almost 2 miles up the road from him. Also, where he lives there is no Cell Service from VZ or ATT at all. So, he pays for Hughesnet and their limited silly caps and expensive service that goes out sometimes when it rains.

I say, why should a person in that situation have to move 3 miles up the road just to get Broadband. Why is there not at least ONE tower within a couple of miles of his location that has 3G. Its ridiculous. The phone companies in particular have been ignoring customers like this for years. Personally, I think they need a kick in the @$$ from the government to make them roll out at least basic DSL to places like this even if it means having a backhaul with a small RT installed in a place like that.
jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

Contrast to the chef situation

On the other hand I live in town in Boone, NC where Appalachian STate U is located. Just a short distance from where Chef lives I have access to (admittedly crappy) Charter service where I could have 5, 10, or even 16mpbs service (though its overpriced at that speed).

Additionally, AT&T has DSL service at 768K, 1.5mpbs, 3mpbs, and 6mpbs of which I am now an AT&T customer myself. I am quite happy with the service at least until they start capping and then I'll drop them like a hot rock. I am about 7000 feet from the CO which means that I get excellent service and my line is good for the top 6mpbs service.

Finally, VZ has EVDO Rev A coverage here in town that works well and that I use occasionally on my smartphone for email, a bit of web, etc.

So its too much of a stark contrast. Here in town everything you could almost want is available. In fact, the local phone coop that operates outside the city limits here is rolling out FTTP in some places.

It is ridiculous the contrasts that exist just between being in town and then only being a few miles out of town.
equivocal

join:2008-01-23
USA

They're just waiting...

The big telcos are waiting for the rural telcos to build out the last mile then they'll come in claiming to be a CLEC and demand the access they fought tooth and nail to deny when they were the ILEC.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·CenturyLink

What A Joke

I've had rural Internet connections for 15 years in OK, MO and IL. AT&T was their telco. There was no choice. There was no competition. AT&T services Century Telephone and the local cable company which is close to 40 miles from my location. And my good luck was to be the last house in the neighborhood figuratively and in reality. I started with Century Telephone. It was a miserable experience I do not wish to repeat soon. After fighting repeated service calls and replacing all the copper to the house, I still had an average of 256 down even though I was paying $100 per month for the premium bundle. After 19 months I had enough. I changed companies.

Now I average close to 5000/500 and I do not have 6-10 interruptions per day; I don't have any. I don't have no-nothing entry level tech support telling me to reboot when the problem is in the local CO, and I can talk to IT when I want to. It is the best thing that has happened to me in years.

National telco and cable companies all have the same attitude that rural America is ignorant and not worth bothering with. They milk us dry and then move on - just like the company before them did. There is no real competition and that is the problem. We don't have to have FiOS, but, they could open the pipeline and that is exactly what my company did when the VoIP phone they gave me would not work. This telephony device is 10x better than Vonage ever provided and I have 10x more options at no charge per month. It is part of the bundle.

National telco and cable companies can give GOLD service. They simply do not want to. Customer loyalty in rural America means nothing to them. Eventually they will learn the public is fickle - especially since we can now read the news, watch TV and movies on the cell phone. .
--
Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

nike says just do it... why not TelcoBob?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dtszaZR···&index=0
Forums » The Rise Of The Rural Super Telco


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