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Mark Cuban: Still Terrified of TV Competition
The Internet is dead, broadband video is lame, and Google sucks. We get it.
by Karl Bode Thursday 28-May-2009 tags: Video · competition · business · alternatives · bandwidth · cable · TVIP
One gets the feeling that if Dallas Mavericks owner and HDNet CEO Mark Cuban wasn't absolutely terrified of broadband video, he wouldn't be constantly ranting about how broadband video is going to fail. Cuban's spent the last five years urging ISPs to block P2P, supporting the cable industry's vision of net neutrality (as in: none), insisting the Internet is dead, lamenting broadband video's shortcomings and generally pouting a lot. Cuban takes specific aim at Google -- who, just like the cable and telcos, is seen as a huge threat.

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Google's seen as a threat not only because they're gobbling up advertising revenue incumbent ISPs and Cuban feel they're entitled to, but because Google supports things like open competition and White Space devices -- concepts that could eventually create a video free for all. Google of course also owns YouTube, and while the outfit is struggling to be profitable now -- Cuban knows Google could play a central role as a video competitor of tomorrow.

The phone and cable companies know this too, which is why they spend millions paying lobbyists and PR mercenaries to smear Google at every turn. One gets the feeling that Cuban spends a lot of time chatting up his executive pals at major cable carriers, given the level of anti-Google rhetoric he's been employing for years. His latest tirade was this week at the D: All Things Digital conference, where Cuban again feigns "disappointment" in the broadband video industry.

In fairness, Cuban's a little more reserved than in years past in his latest interview. But several times in his interview with Walt Mossberg, Cuban mirrors another cable industry talking point and suggests that Google is "subsidizing the bandwidth for the world," which could lead to disaster, insists Cuban:

"If someone were to "out Google" Google; create a better revenue model than Google -- and Google went like this (gestures downward) -- what happens to the whole online video space? Grandma can't put her video up, the people with their flips can't share their video.

Because, of course, the entire Internet video scene hinges on Google, two cans, and a long piece of twine. Cuban can sometimes be right about the limitations of broadband video (particularly for live events), but his experience with online video ended with his sale of Broadcast.com to Yahoo for $5 billion in 1999. Cuban's now heavily invested in traditional delivery, owning a chain of traditional movie theaters and is a significant player in cable HD delivery with HDNet. Of course he wants Internet video to fail.

We're guessing that Hulu, Google, or even BitTorrent users who download TV shows from The Pirate Bay -- then stream them in high definition via an Xbox 360 -- don't much care what Cuban thinks. While online video is only nibbling at the profit margins of cable TV operators now, we're only just beginning to see next-generation broadband service (like Comcast's 50Mbps Wideband and Verizon FiOS) make their way into the field.

Once next-generation speeds see broader deployment at lower prices (Comcast is promising full DOCSIS 3.0 deployment by the end of 2010), and vendors begin producing simpler solutions to help Luddites pull Internet video from the web (or PC) to the living room -- Cable operators will have a fight on their hands. Cable executives know it -- which is why they're working hard to hoist the metered billing model upon unwilling consumers.

Cuban knows it too, which is why is rhetoric is so pointed, relentless, and frequently obnoxious. It may take time, but the day's coming during the next decade when Cuban's going to need to cook up a new shtick.

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EveryName
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Montreal
kudos:1

That photo disturbs me quite a bit

And now it's on the front page.

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1

2 edits

Re: That photo disturbs me quite a bit

Thats the first thing i thought too, Let them eat cake was next. I think all tv will be internet based eventually. There will be a live , and an on-demand one. Live would be news and weather.
TransitJohn

join:2009-05-08
Laramie, WY

Re: That photo disturbs me quite a bit

and sports, the main reason me and everyone I know even still pays for cable or dbs tv.

Wizeguy

join:2008-08-23
Safety Harbor, FL

1 edit
Hope you are reading this today June 2009. Soon there will be live wireless interactive Cable TV shows on one website. Not week old videos on HULU, but live as it is broadcast shows like Bones, Law and Order, Discovery and The History channel. Open up your laptop in the airport in Copenhagen and tune in to your favorite show as it is being broadcast. Any wireless device that has a screen will be able to receive the signal. Will it be free? No. Will it be revolutionay? Yes a resounding yes.

sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
It fits his personality. He's always reminded me of a 3y/o having a never ending stream of tantrums. He's also why I don't have HDNet. I refuse to put another dime in that a-hole's pocket.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

1 edit
Google wants to make any sort of communication channel free to the consumer; as long as they have advertising rights to it.

Can you imagine getting commercials during a phone call?

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

Re: Is google that great?

Can you imagine watching OTA TV and having commercials right in the middle of your show? Oh wait. . .

You don't get commercials during a phone call because you pay for your phone service and typically other usage related charges. But I'd wager services that allowed free long distance calls in exchange for listening to a commercial would find use. Of course, you also pay for cable AND they run commercials. . .
--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com
bicker

join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
Indeed: Anyone who thinks that any scenario in this space leads to a promised land (of inexpensive and almost commercial-free video programming) is smoking something. The future of the industry is already substantially determined -- all that remains to be seen is which companies are going to be the ones delivering video programming that way. If you favor one company over others, or even favor one class of companies over others, then you really don't understand how business really works.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by baineschile:

Google wants to make any sort of communication channel free to the consumer; as long as they have advertising rights to it.

Can you imagine getting commercials during a phone call?
No need to imagine. You do now when you call many companies and get put on hold (or wait to get connected to a "[dis]service rep" - ie: Before we will talk to you, you must listen to 10 minutes of commercials about our company first).
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Is google that great?

said by RARPSL:

said by baineschile:

Google wants to make any sort of communication channel free to the consumer; as long as they have advertising rights to it.

Can you imagine getting commercials during a phone call?
No need to imagine. You do now when you call many companies and get put on hold (or wait to get connected to a "[dis]service rep" - ie: Before we will talk to you, you must listen to 10 minutes of commercials about our company first).
i think that is part advertising and part not wanting to be anally raped by ASCAP(i think that is the initals) for licensing fees to play real music.

course they could sidestep that by just having the call center use a local radio station as the hold music.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

not another one...

How did I get here if the internet is dead?

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

He should be scared

His channels suck and he relies on channel welfare to get customers. If he actually had to compete for business his shit rerun filled garbage would be out of business.

Cuban is a media whore who should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
--
POKE 65495,1
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: He should be scared

said by Bit:

His channels suck and he relies on channel welfare to get customers. If he actually had to compete for business his shit rerun filled garbage would be out of business.

Cuban is a media whore who should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
I wonder what would happen if the cable companies decided to make Cuban's channel a premium channel.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

Re: He should be scared

said by moonpuppy:

said by Bit:

His channels suck and he relies on channel welfare to get customers. If he actually had to compete for business his shit rerun filled garbage would be out of business.

Cuban is a media whore who should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
I wonder what would happen if the cable companies decided to make Cuban's channel a premium channel.
I wonder myself.

But at least HDNet isn't bastardized sub 10Mbps bitrate garbage like some of the others.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: He should be scared

A lot of good it does with F-Troop and Hogan's Heroes re-runs.
--
POKE 65495,1

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

Re: He should be scared

said by Bit:

A lot of good it does with F-Troop and Hogan's Heroes re-runs.
I like some of the concerts and even Dan Rather's reports.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: He should be scared

Palladia smokes HDNet for concerts, and Dan RaTHer, ouch how the mighty have fallen. Give him a few years and he will find his way back to a decent network. If Marv Albert can make a comeback, anyone can. YES!
--
POKE 65495,1

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

Re: He should be scared

Well, I don't get Palladia yet.

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
Reviews:
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said by Bit:

Palladia smokes HDNet for concerts
I have to disagree here. All the HDNet concerts I've watched have been wonderfully mixed into 5.1 audio, are uncensored (watching Linkin Park on Palladia was laughable), and don't have annoying commercial breaks between every single song in a set.

Palladia is pretty good, but HDNet still has an edge on concerts.
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·VOIPo
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·Northland Cable ..
·Packet8
said by moonpuppy:

said by Bit:

His channels suck and he relies on channel welfare to get customers. If he actually had to compete for business his shit rerun filled garbage would be out of business.

Cuban is a media whore who should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
I wonder what would happen if the cable companies decided to make Cuban's channel a premium channel.
Uh, it is a permium channel for Time Warner customers. Unfortunately, TWC is yanking his channels on Saturday. Oh well, that'll be $7 a month I save when I drop that package.

I really enjoy both channels. More so than the other channels that TWC has added lately.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: He should be scared

said by ke4pym:

said by moonpuppy:

said by Bit:

His channels suck and he relies on channel welfare to get customers. If he actually had to compete for business his shit rerun filled garbage would be out of business.

Cuban is a media whore who should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
I wonder what would happen if the cable companies decided to make Cuban's channel a premium channel.
Uh, it is a permium channel for Time Warner customers.
Same for Charter. Charter gives out most of it's HD channels for free. We you do have to upgrade to a HD box which is an extra $5 a month. So I guess it's really $5. Still if you want HDnet and the 5 other channels on the "premium" tier it's an extra $10. No thanks.
dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
said by moonpuppy:

I wonder what would happen if the cable companies decided to make Cuban's channel a premium channel.
On BOTH DISH & DirecTV, while HD Net is part of the basic HD tier, HD Movies is NOT & is in an "HD xtra" pak, which costs $5 on DirecTV, while it's $10 on DISH.

I do have it (HD xtra) on DirecTV, but I certainly would NOT pay it just for this douche's channel(s) - there's other ones in there that I watch more than this one...
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·VOIPo
·RoadRunner Cable
·Northland Cable ..
·Packet8

Re: He should be scared

I'm okay with paying for the channels. In part because he has given quite a bit of technology (read: very expensive, high end HD cameras and lenses) for NASA to use since the Columbia disaster.

Granted, he gets rights to use the footage on HDNet. And since I'm a space nut, I enjoy getting the chance to watch the launches in HD.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

1 edit

Re: He should be scared

Doesn't CNN-HD carry shuttle launches? They're also available online »www.nasa.gov/multimedia/hd/index.html

Meanwhile cable should dump his crap channels and just carry NASA TV in HD. »www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
--
POKE 65495,1
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

Re: He should be scared

I'm sure they are.

And those feeds come from Mark's cameras.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

Re: He should be scared

Only through 2010 when the deal expires.
--
POKE 65495,1
bicker

join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
I wonder what would happen if the cable companies realized that their subscribers don't feel that Cuban's channels are worth what he charges the cable companies for them.

Oh wait! They already have realized that.
MADx

join:2005-05-25
Richmond, IN
I agree HDNet and HDNet Movies are not good channels, but I did enjoy the occasional one night preview screenings of new movies. However, Comcast took the HDNet Movies off of its line up and left the even worst HDNet on.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
said by Bit:

Cuban is a media whore who should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
If he does, he should simulcast his self-immolation live on all of his HDNet stations--in HD!
--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com
bicker

join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
"Channel welfare"... I like that.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: He should be scared

its what NFL Network gets!

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: He should be scared

said by Kearnstd:

its what NFL Network gets!
Oh bullshit how does NFL Network get any more "welfare" than any other channel? Do you even know how cable works?

mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Clearwire

First the Mavericks and now this...

quote:
Because, of course, the entire Internet video scene hinges on Google, two cans, and a long piece of twine.
But at least it doesn't depend on having a low post option...

Mr. Cuban is also in federal court for insider trading related to another search engine, Mamma.com
--
How you can make the world a Better Place

woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

pfftttt......

why even comment on this pinhead, maybe he will go away,and keep his tantrums to himself.......
--
BlooMe

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
Reviews:
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{quantity of stuff} in a {size} bag

Once next-generation speeds see broader deployment at lower prices (Comcast is promising full DOCSIS 3.0 deployment by the end of 2010), and vendors begin producing simpler solutions to help Luddites pull Internet video from the web (or PC) to the living room -- Cable operators will have a fight on their hands. Cable executives know it -- which is why they're working hard to hoist the metered billing model upon unwilling consumers.
This is completely ignoring the fact that this can only go so far. Comcast's DOCSIS 3.0 deployment is 4 channels downstream -- that's 24MHz (4 x 6MHz channels) out of a 750MHz typical cable distribution plant. Not only do you have less space to work with, but you don't have the efficiency of straight MPEG2 Transport Stream mapping into QAM. You have Video container transport stream (mpeg/real/flash/whatever) as payload inside a layer4 transport header (UDP/TCP), inside an IP header, inside an Ethernet header, mapped into a QAM DOCSIS data channel.

So, you have more overhead on the video signal and less frequency space to work with.

IP Video is cool -- it enables a vast many options that are not available using traditional broadcast methods. It will continue to thrive as an augmentation to existing broadcast video channels. As for replacing broadcast distribution, basic grade school algebra will help you work out why Internet based video won't take over. Unicast streams (to enable the anytime/anyplace nirvana of Internet video) require linear scaling in bandwidth as each subsequent viewer watches the content. Multicast streams have better scaling factors, but require everybody to watch a common feed and incur vastly more overhead than existing traditional video streaming over broadcast channels.

I'm afraid anyone who earnestly believes IPTV is really going to knock out broadcast video is simply standing on the tracks waiting for the freight train of reality to arrive.

Not Mark Cuban

@sbcglobal.net

Re: {quantity of stuff} in a {size} bag

Very well put. I do think that IPTV is going to do in the premium and pay per view channels though, and that is some very high markup cable real estate to concede to the Internet.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Internet a "staid" platform?

I like this gem:

We need to remember that the Internet is a staid platform. There has been very little innovation. It’s like the ’80s, when we were fighting between different word processing software. There’s only evolution, not revolution. But TV… you could have real innovation there.
So the Internet, which was born in its current form in the 1980s and was popularized in the 90's, is staid with "very little innovation" but TV (which was basically born in the US in the 1940's, colorized in the 60's, and went cable in the 70's) is ripe for real innovation. Sure, Mr. Cuban. Now if you'll go with the nice men in white coats, they can take you to a place where there is no mean ol' Internet and you can spend your days in front of a nice, big television telling everyone how wondrous the device is.
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause

MalibuMaxx
Premium
join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN

Re: Internet a "staid" platform?

T.V. - Non interactive... unless u change the channel but you can do that only so many times b4 you end up at the same channel.

Internet - endless possibilities at your finger tips...

If you ask me hes got it all backwards
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
TV seems pretty Staid if you ask me, i havent seen any innovation lately in the TV programing itself just the TV sets, which oddly enough are innovating so they integrate better with the computer or simply connect directly to the network on their own and connect to the internet.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Internet a "staid" platform?

Exactly. The only innovation in the TV world seems to be "how can we integrate with the Internet." For example, providing "bonus features" online (like Mythbusters extra footage or Heros' online comics). Other than that, it is pretty much business as usual in the TV world.

The Internet world is constantly innovating, however. Something that is cutting edge becomes "for power users" in 1 year, "for most users" by three years, and is obsolete by five years.

Right now replacing TV with Online shows, I would say is cutting edge/power users. In a few years time, it will be simplified enough that most users can take advantage of it and then cable services will begin to seriously suffer.

Let Cuban think that the Internet is staid and TV's the key to innovation, though. His companies will flounder and sink if they ignore the Internet and rely solely on TV.
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause
AstroBoy

join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD

download TV shows from The Pirate Bay

You said:
"download TV shows from The Pirate Bay"

Really? I thought they were only a search engine. And only 1 of many such search engines.

Rogue Wolf
Ate Your Homework, And Framed The Dog

join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY

Mark Cuban's Business Manifesto

"What we want to give you, when we feel like giving it to you, IF we feel like giving it to you, at whatever price we please, because we've stifled and destroyed all competition."

Mr. Cuban doesn't want his cash cow to die out, it's that simple. Innovation is hard work, so he'd rather cut off all progress so that he can sit back and make money doing essentially nothing.
--
Hexadecimal humor really turns me 0FF.
jtlockyer

join:2001-10-18
Anaheim, CA

Mark Cuban is a modern-day Howard Hughes

Cuban is rich, intelligent, and in the public spotlight much like Hughes in his day. I expect to see him barricaded in a hotel penthouse suite someday, hopped up on drugs, and bitching at the TV that the HD channels on the TV suck and he invented HDTV. Hopefully, the maids and wait staff throws him off the balcony so he can rag on God in the after life.

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