Stuck In Broadband No Man's Land Many sold Verizon markets may have a long wait... Verizon recently announced they'd be selling a huge swath of rural and under-served markets to Frontier Communications, who'll pay $5.3 billion in common stock and take on $3.3 billion in debt. The Greenville News highlights the 20,000 line communities of Simpsonville and Woodruff -- which Verizon never upgraded with DSL functionality because they were deemed unprofitable. Locals there now only have the choice of broadband service from bankrupt Charter Communications. Frontier tells locals they may upgrade the area with broadband "within three to four years," after the eight to twelve months the deal is expected to take to complete.
|
  major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
1 edit | Highspeed Hot Potato quote:
Frontier tells locals they may upgrade the area with broadband "within three to four years," after the eight to twelve months the deal is expected to take to complete.
And in the meantime, even if the local municipality wanted to provide highspeed Internet services to its residents, it couldn't because of this kind of bullshit. The area is only "unprofitable" unless and until the local muni steps in.
--
The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
| |
|  | | | Re: Highspeed Hot Potato Yeah, until Telcos and cablecos sue them for trying muni broadband. | |
|
| | Laughable Simpsonville and Woodruff are not rural by any stretch of the imagination...hell, they are within 10-15 miles of downtown Greenville. Why Verizon dropped the ball on this is beyond me. | |
| |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Laughable said by Hazy Arc:Simpsonville and Woodruff are not rural by any stretch of the imagination...hell, they are within 10-15 miles of downtown Greenville. Why Verizon dropped the ball on this is beyond me. 20,000 lines is simply not worth it to Verizon. That is (in their eyes) as rural as it gets unfortunately. | |
| | | Reviews:
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Laughable said by Matt:said by Hazy Arc:Simpsonville and Woodruff are not rural by any stretch of the imagination...hell, they are within 10-15 miles of downtown Greenville. Why Verizon dropped the ball on this is beyond me. 20,000 lines is simply not worth it to Verizon. That is (in their eyes) as rural as it gets unfortunately. As rural as It gets, I live in Yermo CA, the population here is about 4200 and so We have maybe 2100 lines and then there's Barstow CA nearby they have a population of about 20,000 and maybe 10,000 lines, So rural can get pretty small and Yes We have DSL here. And We might be one of the communities in So Cal that Verizon wants to sell off and had no real intention of serving just so they could acquire the GTE wireless network. | |
| | | | Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Laughable Very true. That's the only thing VZ wanted was the GTE wireless network.
On the other hand nothing is stopping these people from setting up a Co-Op and building out a Wireless provider. Why wait for VZ or Frontier to do it. Build out your own with a Co-Op don't use Tax money, and then tell VZ to take a hike. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Laughable Unless there already is a wireless provider there. | |
|
| | | arkayn71
join:2008-07-30
Golden Valley, AZ | I live in Golden Valley, AZ(Between Kingman and Bullhead City/Laughlin) and we have DSL. Population is about 5000 spread out over a fair area. | |
|
| | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Laughable And what do you have, the damn union butting their damn asses into the mix saying things are possible. They should come here and run their mouth and see what happens, they're asses get sued.
"I have concerns about any company taking on another company that's three times their size," said Egelhoff, whose office is in Everett, Wash. "I have real concerns that they will have the money base to make it work."
The Union doesn't need to know how much money Frontier has. If they can pay their "members" then they should shut up. | |
| | | | |  tim_kButtons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, KaseyPremium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:8
·Armstrong Zoom ..
| Re: Laughable said by hottboiinnc:And what do you have, the damn union butting their damn asses into the mix saying things are possible. They should come here and run their mouth and see what happens, they're asses get sued. "I have concerns about any company taking on another company that's three times their size," said Egelhoff, whose office is in Everett, Wash. "I have real concerns that they will have the money base to make it work." The Union doesn't need to know how much money Frontier has. If they can pay their "members" then they should shut up. You sure had to stretch to find some kind of anti-union angle. They are worried that Frontier won't be able to handle $3.3 billion in new debt. You know, kinda like some other recent purchase of Verizon land lines.
--
RIP my babys Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07 & Beamer 7/24/08, Buttons, Buttons video, Beamer
| |
|
| | | | said by Matt:said by Hazy Arc:Simpsonville and Woodruff are not rural by any stretch of the imagination...hell, they are within 10-15 miles of downtown Greenville. Why Verizon dropped the ball on this is beyond me. 20,000 lines is simply not worth it to Verizon. That is (in their eyes) as rural as it gets unfortunately. Ha! Gushing over Verizon and trash talking Qwest are the two biggest pass times on this forum. I keep telling everyone that Verizon doesn't give a rat's ass about you if you're rural, and Verizon's definition of rural is any city smaller than Erie, PA.
Qwest on the other hand has put DSLAMs in just about every CO (that they own) in Iowa. I looked at their list, and even the town of Dike, population 900, has DSL. My parents have DSL thanks to a remote DSLAM that Qwest installed. I can actually have a decent Internet connection when I'm down there. If the LEC here was Verizon, there would be FiOS in select areas of West Des Moines and Clive, and the rest of the state wouldn't have any high speed service at all. | |
| | | | tim_kButtons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, KaseyPremium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..
| Re: Laughable said by cyclone_z:Ha! Gushing over Verizon and trash talking Qwest are the two biggest pass times on this forum. I keep telling everyone that Verizon doesn't give a rat's ass about you if you're rural, and Verizon's definition of rural is any city smaller than Erie, PA. On come on now. While I don't feel like investigating the number of people serviced by our CO, the number of people in the concentrated part of town, Stewartstown borough, is only around 2,000. I don't think the CO reaches more than maybe 5,000, a far cry from Erie. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewartsto···sylvania And we have DSL.
--
RIP my babys Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07 & Beamer 7/24/08, Buttons, Buttons video, Beamer
| |
|
| | | I submit to you, sir, that any place called Simpsonville or, for that matter, any place within 10-15 miles of downtown Greenville is, by definition, rural.
I rest my case.
 | |
| | | Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| Re: Laughable
"Verizon doesn't offer high-speed Internet over its telephone lines in those areas or its advanced television service, FiOS TV. "
Per article, Verizon never even offered DSL to these Simpsonville residents? Wow!
Per internet search, RiverWalk subdivision homes worth $280K - $680K. Check photos, these are nice homes! With prime broadband customers, upper income.
Verizon either:
1)Had local staff that didn't pay attention to their service area, and failed to offer DSL(or FiOS) there.
or
2)Made decision NOT to serve this Simpsonville area.
Either way, dumb! | |
|
 kontosxyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY |  It's called a "business opportunity"
There's nothing stopping you from building out service to these areas. | |
| |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: It's called a "business opportunity" said by kontos:All you need to do is to convince some investors that the Big (Bad) ISPs are wrong. There's nothing stopping you from building out service to these areas. Apparently you can't read. ISPs spend a lot of money suing cities and towns that want to build out their own networks. they claim those are THEIR territories and having the local government build out is "unfair" competition. Of course the ISP don't have nay plans to build out themselves but just say that SOMEDAY they MIGHT consider it. So people are suppsoed to wait for this mythical "someday" that never gets here. | |
| | | kontosxyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY | Re: It's called a "business opportunity" said by BF69:said by kontos:All you need to do is to convince some investors that the Big (Bad) ISPs are wrong. There's nothing stopping you from building out service to these areas. Apparently you can't read. ISPs spend a lot of money suing cities and towns that want to build out their own networks. Mr. Gooder Reading-oligist,
I never said anything about the government going into business. I was mentioning that a private entrepreneur could start an ISP and (allegedly) make a killing serving these areas. | |
| | | | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
1 edit | Re: It's called a "business opportunity" "I was mentioning that a private entrepreneur could start an ISP and (allegedly) make a killing serving these areas."
Private small(but still kick butt) business FTW! Well small compared to the big ISPs.
There is a lot of rural towns in the KC area(both sides of the state line. and kc area= places that get the kc OTA tv channels) and even some places in the heart of KC[down town] that have NO wired internet, other than Tx. the WISP I subscribe to serves most of said areas on both sides of the state line. You think he would do that is he was not making money? I don't. So so there is some money in the areas, just not enough for the big ISPs to take them seriously. | |
| | | | | kontosxyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY | Re: It's called a "business opportunity" So we agree that the private marketplace should be able to take care of this problem on its own (without gov't help)
'Course I wonder how much the potential for government intervention keeps private industry out of the marketplace.
It would really suck to spend your own money to build out a network just before some form of government aided broadband stimulus goes through. All of a sudden you could be competing with other business that got their start-up costs covered in one form or another. Ouch. | |
| | | | | | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: It's called a "business opportunity" That would kinda suck, but some entrepreneurs will not wait for the Gov they will get it done. They see a way to make money, give the people there a much needed product, and make something of himself. And you would have no tie to the Gov, as far as start up is concerned.. Plus there is a chance that the one that did not get money from the Gov is the better WISP. The WISP I have treats is costumers almost like family. And if the WISP that did not get the Gov money dies in the end it was just not meant to be. Also competition is a good thing, maybe it will make the WISPs increase speed and or lower prices. | |
|
| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Grab some investors and make your own private entity. Might be doing that myself in a similar situation...town of 10k and TWC is the only decent broadband here. Verizon never bothered to roll out DSL since their lines are pretty screwy; a telephone company ~40 miles over put in a DSLAM awhile back but it can't service most of the town and speeds and prices are uncompetitive (1.5/512 for $50) unless you're a business within range. | |
| | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: It's called a "business opportunity" said by iansltx:Grab some investors and make your own private entity. Might be doing that myself in a similar situation...town of 10k and TWC is the only decent broadband here. Verizon never bothered to roll out DSL since their lines are pretty screwy; a telephone company ~40 miles over put in a DSLAM awhile back but it can't service most of the town and speeds and prices are uncompetitive (1.5/512 for $50) unless you're a business within range. What he said, except the pricing. If there truly is demand for broadband in Podunk, then someone will roll up their sleeves and provide it. But the citizens of Podunk have to be willing to pay the fare. And that ain't $25 a month. Wisp service is going to start at $60-75/month for very basic speeds of 512kb, if it is to remain in business. Its not clear that rural folk are willing to commit to such rate plans.
If the ISP is expected to deliver rural service for $20/month, just because urban ILECs do, well, no one is going to bother, except the most civic-minded volunteer groups, and those are very hard to maintain. | |
| | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: It's called a "business opportunity" It's not broadband, but 128/64 DSL is provided by the neighboring telephone co-op for $17.95 per month plus a phone line (maybe $15 for that), and they're highly rural.
20k in a town on the other hand is NOT rural. Granted, it may not be MDU city, but there are plenty of paying customers there.
Additionally, WISP service tends to be in the $40-$50 range for a low-end plan. Probably cheaper than non-triple-play cable internet in fact, albeit for MUCH slower speeds. The local WISP here has charged $41.95 per month for their basic service for several years now, even when they had decent quality, albeit on a 384/128 connection (but hey, you got a static IP, which is freaking awesome).
Bottom line: if your area is truly underserved, there is a market for an additional internet pipe. If there's no DSL in an area, only one cable company and no fiber, you're underserved and could probably make a buck off of people wanting better service.
elray, don't know where you got the $60-$75 number from. Even satellite internet starts off cheaper than that, so no WISP in their right mind catering to residences would decide not to parovide a $50 plan...if WIldBlue is cheaper by $10/mo than decent broadband, some people won't switch, and WISPs generally need all the customers they can get to try for economies of scale. | |
| | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: It's called a "business opportunity" said by iansltx:It's not broadband, but 128/64 DSL is provided by the neighboring telephone co-op for $17.95 per month plus a phone line (maybe $15 for that), and they're highly rural. Additionally, WISP service tends to be in the $40-$50 range for a low-end plan. elray, don't know where you got the $60-$75 number from. Even satellite internet starts off cheaper than that, so no WISP in their right mind catering to residences would decide not to parovide a $50 plan...if WIldBlue is cheaper by $10/mo than decent broadband, some people won't switch... Well, if you can run a wisp profitably on lower rents, be my guest. I guess I'm not as cutthroat. Personally, I'd be happy with the 128K service.
My price reference was for the few Wisp hookups I did in southern california in Ventura and Riverside counties - all since replaced with cable or dsl. Our local fixed-wireless last charged $50 but went under at that rate. Its successor charges $100 and up - fixed wireless here, is now marketed as a telco-free/cableco-free bypass service, not a competitor, and not residential.
If, as you say, Wireless must be cheaper than WildBlue to succeed, then I guess that contradicts the testimony I read here every week, that satellite users "would gladly pay" for an alternative to Hughes, WildBlue, etc. | |
| | | | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: It's called a "business opportunity" Let me put it this way: if you sell your service for more than $50 at the entry level, you're missing out on potential WB converts because your service is more expensive than WB.
For the biz-class WISPS, charging high rates is fine. However if you want to hit the residential market you have to price yourself around $40-$50 per month, the average for cable and DSL in town. Otherwise only high-end users will use your system...the low-end users, as long as they know halfway what they're doing, are more profitable if you've got expensive backhaul, since they won't such down as many bits.
From what I've seen around here, WISPS can survive perfectly charging $40 per month for their basic tier of service. The TExas market may well be different than others, but I'm seeing $50 per month as the baseline in most places that I look. Coincidence, considering rates for WildBlue? I think not. | |
|
trish2
join:2008-03-24
Laurens, SC | stuck in broadband no man's land This very thing is why the citizens of South Carolina need to wire themselves with municipal fiber (www.greenlightnc.com is a great example of what we must do in South Carolina) instead of waiting for AT&T, Charter, and Verizon to do it for them. I am sick of being abandoned by the big ISP's!! It is time we took our future into our own hands. | |
| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: stuck in broadband no man's land NO! It's not what SC needs. It's called if YOU want it YOU build it. Why should your neighbor have to pay for your Internet in the form of taxes. If you want a faster connection build your own company or cough up the money for the business class connections. After all TWC has Ethernet Pricing and direct Fiber available. And its faster than what you have in NC and SC's Gov't funded "ISP" | |
|
| | Frontier I live in rochester new york, where Frontier has a pretty good stake in the area..... Here is my advice for those in South Carolina.... When Frontier tells you that they will upgrade the area in 3 to 4 years after the purchase goes through, don't hold your breath you will drop dead in 60 seconds!
I have lived in Rochester for 35 years, and was told 10 years ago they were upgrading the area.... My speeds are now half what they were when I got it 4 years ago.
When will Frontier wake up and realize there is NO MONEY in landline! Give it up, you are not going to recover your losses by taking on more copper.... get out, just get out its over! | |
| | | On a positive note, a city of 27k in tennessee now has 6mbit dsl, up from the 3mbit frontier used to offer. Its still 49.99/m compared to charter's 5mbit service which they offer in all of their locations for 29.99/m with a two year agreement that has a pro-rated $75 ETF. You can get 10mbit for the standard increase, I think its $10 more a month.
Frontier also offers citywide wifi access for 29.99/m if you don't have any other service with them. I've tested it to be 1.5mbit symmetrical. I don't think Frontier neglects rural customers as much as verizon. Bellsouth was pretty good too when they were around, slow to upgrade the rural areas but they at least offered something. | |
| | | We used to believe we can do better.
Now we accept sucking at everything. | |
| |  XBL2009------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·EarthLink
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Disgusting - All Americans should be ashamed and outraged said by kingofdsl:We used to believe we can do better. Now we accept sucking at everything. Sad but true. | |
|
| | Yeah, that is silly. Simpsonville and Woodruff are very close to Greenville. For that matter most towns the size of those places have DSL and cable. Charter is not so hot though.
Fortunately, NC has a few cities that have rolled out their own Muni fiber networks because the incumbents sat on their laurels for too long. Fortunately, the general assembly in NC has quelled any attempts by the telecoms and cable companies to prevent muni networks.
And as a reminder to the incumbents. The next time you guys try to slip another "bill" through the general assembly the same people including myself will be watching again and then writing our representatives again. We will not tolerate the duopoly telling cities what to do through legislation meant to protect the incumbents. | |
| | | | | heimdm
join:2008-06-22
Martinsville, IN | Re: DSL, etc I am rural too, both ATT/SBC and Comcast deem us non-profitable. Our biggest hope is for the Verizon 4g network. | |
| | | |  hdmanFlt RiderPremium
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI
 ·Cellcom Wireless
| Re: DSL, etc Even thats not viable. AT&T and Charter have deemed my area not profitable (like those companies are??) so we only have satellite (not good), or EVDO which is what I have. Yes, it is better than dialup, but it is certainly not "broadband".
--
The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!! | |
|
| Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| And money talks and your bull shit walks. The next step will be to the Feds. You know the FCC will do anything the Telcos ask. Especially if ATT and VZ's name is attached.
YOu are also serviced by TWC and can obtain ethernet and Gbps speeds and Fiber to your door. you just pay for it. Like i said above, why should your neighbor pay for your internet if they don't use or want it? What a bunch of horse shit. If you want the service YOU pay for it and not make your 80yo+ neighbor. | |
| | | | | Re: DSL, etc Gosh these forums are inhabited by too many hostile people. Either that or you work for AT&T.
Actually, if you look at Greenlight as an example the city of Wilson paid to install the fiber. However, all users of the system pay a subscription fee for the service. It is not as if Grandma jones is going to be paying out the wazoo for something she doesn't want or need. For that matter with collections of subscription fees the system will eventually pay for itself and most likely make money. For that matter, any business that is attracted to that area as a result will eventually pay off.
These days broadband is quickly becoming very important. Perhaps still not as important as Gas, Water, Electricity all of which are provided by the same city by the way and the citizens who have it pay monthly fees as well.
Why should people have to wait on AT&T or VZ to decide when and how something is deployed if the city itself as a majority decides that it can provide a service in an area on its own that the incumbents won't touch and most of the people in the own obviously want.
I don't think thats such a bad thing. The bills that have been presented into the general assembly in NC to protect the incumbents were bad legislation.
I can understand if you own a lot of stock in AT&T or VZ, etc that you might feel threatened. However. it is the job and the responsibility of the executives and the board of directors of those companies to provide a profitable business model so that there is a good ROIC for the investors. It is not the government's job to help insure a company's business model. Neither is it for the government to prevent competition.
However, the bills that were introduced to the state house were mostly crafted by industry representatives and for the benefit of the incumbent to protect themselves from competition in this case from a local municipality. That is not market economics at work. Nor am I an idiot as I just graduated with BSBA from App state.
By the way, you wouldn't happen to be from Asheville originally or lived there? | |
|
| | Hey, Wheres the "Good thing i switched to FiOs today and Ditched my other cable company" people at? | |
| | | In this piss state of Sc we have nothing. | |
| | | I pretty much stuck with hughesnet forever!
Its like nobody cares for technollogy for the bondocks. | |
| | | If they had no broadband, then maybe I would care. But from the article, they have access to Charter cable. So DSL from Verizon or anyone else is simply another option.
I live in Belleville, IL, basically a suburb of St Louis, MO. Population last time I noticed was 45,000+. And I only have access to Charter as well. While I would like to have more choices, I do have broadband access. | |
| | MordhemLove it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD | Re: This would be a big deal if they didn't have any broadband Yep, I just moved from Gaffney SC, we had charter but we also have the choice of AT&T but really I am not going to pick a shitty service over a good one so screw dsl, its lame trust me. I had the 10 mb tier with charter and was vary happy with it! Ever since I lived in Baltimore I started off with DSL but since I switched to Cable Internet I never looked back, If there is no fiber i don't want it! | |
| | | | and your hardwire telco is?
(I'm guessing Verizon.) | |
|
| |
|
|
