 
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Well... I feel sorry for the victims of this gouging. However, this mentality is coming to an ISP near you!
Then, it becomes time to cut the plug and pick up a book>
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
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 | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Well... "this mentality is coming to an ISP near you!"
Proof we NEED competition.
I am SO happy my ISP has no cap. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs: | Re: Well... said by me1212  :I am SO happy my ISP has no cap. Yet. | |
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jt7
@comcast.net | i dont really mind a cap as long as it not too low. comcast has a 250 gb cap that is fine with me. even though i play online game everyday i still dont come close to the cap. | |
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| | | phuntism
join:2003-08-01
Manhattan Beach, CA
| Re: Well... Comcast's cap exists to prevent people from getting their tv from the internet. You can watch all the youtube vids you want, but if an average single person tried to watch their TV at a any HD quality online, they could bump up against that 250GB cap pretty fast - a family could blow past it in no time. The caps are there to future proof against a scenario where people could drop their tv plans and go internet only. | |
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pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Canada
 ·Shaw
 ·Novus Entertainmen..
| Re: Well... The average 720p 41 minute (without commercials) TV show rip is 1GB in size. You're telling me the average person watches 170 hours (7.11 days) of TV a month?
Most consumers will not even download 720p HD content, the average size of the same show at the standard definition is 350MB. That is 731 hours (30 days) of TV a month.
Get realistic here.
--
Xenophase - British Columbia's premier online gaming community. | |
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| | | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
1 edit | Re: Well... Imagine a service that streams Blu-Ray 1080p videos. If the bandwidth is there, the demand will form, and the service will come to exist.
What about Steam users, who download their games?
Or what about the entire system of online distribution of software?
Microsoft has already announced the availability to download games through their online service.
What happens when the PS3 does the same? Some of these games require dual-layer Blu-ray discs. We're talking up to 50 GB files *per game*.
So yes, there are and *will be* reasons to download more. In fact, reasons that neither I, nor you nor anyone else can think of. It's called *innovation*. | |
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| | | | | phuntism
join:2003-08-01
Manhattan Beach, CA
| Here's some examples using Comcast's 250GB cap:
Microsoft just announced 1080p streaming over Xbox Live. The required minimum for this service is 8Mbps. So with highly compressed 1080p content, you get 74.5 hours of TV each month.
Blu-Ray's maximum is 40Mbps, so under a worst-case-scenario, you would would have only 15 hours of viewing pleasure each month, (currently Netflix streams at 2.2Mbps).
For reference:
OTA HD is about 15Mbps
OTA SD is about 2.5Mbps
DVD is about 5Mbps
Now add on internet usage, and multiple TVs (ouch!). Then realize, "The average American watches approximately 153 hours of TV every month at home."
So if you pay for cable TV, you can watch all day every day worry free. If you try to stream, you get low limits. The cable companies are starting to cap bandwidth now to protect their future tv incomes.
Of course, if Cogeco actually keeps their extreme policy of high speeds, low caps, and stiff overages, they may be trying to boost short term income too. 
(All my bitrates came from google, they should be pretty close. I used base 10 for streaming speeds. 153 hour/month figure is according to Nielsen.) | |
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backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
| hehe I was a customer back in 2004 or so when they put the first "we can charge you $1 per GB". I posted in the forums that this was ridiculous. A whole group of Cogeco "loyalists" jumped on my back and told me this was just new TOS and that there were no plans to monetize this.
Just for the sake of being that guy..... I was right!
Blowgeco is more like it | |
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dan991199
join:2007-10-01
St Catharines, ON | sigh they lost a 10+ year customer here. went over to teksavvy life is better for those that can get the service. | |
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another25
@cgocable.net
| Re: sigh  I agree! I have Cogeco and they are ripping me off with those extra rates so that I'd switch to a better connection package! most of their customers have the lite package, which, i guess, is why they're doing this. I'd forgive them as a customer if they were actually losing money and didnt want to lay off workers that need their jobs, but if those pigs just want to make money for themselves, then I'm gonna try teksavvy. | |
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but but but
@nevada.edu | But... I thought Canada was perfect and never had any issues? | |
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| cchhat01
The Guru
join:2001-05-01
Elmhurst, NY | Re: But... said by but but but :
I thought Canada was perfect and never had any issues?
Yes! Ignorance can be bliss!
--
Chirag's Website | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H2Z | That would be a TekSavvy customer. | |
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ya ya ya
@cgocable.net
| said by but but but :
I thought Canada was perfect and never had any issues?
Cogeco is foreign owned. Some backwards place called Quebec where they worship poutine and GSP.
Oh and Celine Dion.
Seriously though our only issue is being near you.  | |
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Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC | ISPs are a Business They are running a business, correct? Businesses have a goal of making money. I don't see the problem here. | |
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| Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON
·Cogeco Cable
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: ISPs are a Business said by Hazy Arc :They are running a business, correct? Businesses have a goal of making money. I don't see the problem here. You're right, a business has the right to make any decision it wants.
Unfortunately we have a duopoly here and choice is limited
However that didn't stop me, after being a Cogeco customer for more than 15 years, I cancelled my Internet and some of my Cable services in protest
Vote with your wallet people, that's all we have | |
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| me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | I agree they should be able to make money, but when it is just to keep their tv money safe(TW's CEO said that was y they were doing meter, but he worded it carefully) or to skrew their costumer I do not like them. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by Hazy Arc :They are running a business, correct? Businesses have a goal of making money. I don't see the problem here. Yes they have the right to raise rates. And people have the right to complain about them. Not only do they get screwed by relatively low caps and expensive overages, but now also rate increases. Hopefully, for their subscribers sake, they don't find additional ways to increase profitslower expenses.
The increase for the "Pro" level of service is a 10% increase. don't you see anything that people might complain about with low caps, high overages, and 10% increases in monthly rates? | |
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Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC | Re: ISPs are a Business Hyperbole much? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: ISPs are a Business said by Hazy Arc :Hyperbole much? Only on the same scale as yours. | |
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| | | | | | Phila213
join:2009-05-02
Ancaster, ON
| Re: ISPs are a Business said by KrK :Exactly. You start hearing terms like "Deregulation" and "Fair" and "Level playing field".... what they actually mean is not that they want a free market at all---- what they want is a market massively tilted in their favor, and with restrictions that benefit the consumers or defend them from monopolistic practices removed. The companies that call for "de-regulation" are almost always the entrenched players who dominate the market, and what they seek is not a fair market at all but a removal of the rules that prevent them from crushing the competition and keeping them out of the market. What an idiotic comment. | |
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| | | | | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Re: ISPs are a Business Why is his comment idiotic? Please do enlighten us. | |
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sdafsdf
@suddenlink.net | you are right, you were using fallacy instead. | |
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| Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA | Try reading what a free market is. And then shutup. | |
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AturaenAnon
@cgocable.net
| Re: ISPs are a Business Ah yes, the bi-weekly conferences we have to regulate our prices. Truly a balanced system.
When only two service providers exist in an area, those who provide what, in today's world, amounts to an indispensable service: they call the shots, not the consumer. Water companies could charge ten times what they do now and still keep most of their clientele, because people need water. Do you honestly think that those who pay 25 cents to send 0.33kb of data have a say in that rate?
The free market only works in small, isolated communities. We're nation (and global) wide now, governmental regulation is necessary. | |
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| | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | There *is* government intervention. Cable companies are monopolies that are granted franchise rights to areas to be the sole provider in that area. That is hardly a free market. | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net
| You don't see a problem with higher prices for less service? Wow. Remind me to never do business with whomever you work for.
Cogeco is probably using the cash to subsidize other areas of their business. Canada is doing well but they are getting destroyed in Europe (read their quarterly/annual reports). | |
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| chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Hazy Arc :They are running a business, correct? Businesses have a goal of making money. I don't see the problem here. UUB
5 megabit unlimited = 1600 GB
60GB cap versus 1600
that's a price to value increase of almost 2500% increase in what your getting versus the value.
AND DURING A RECESSION/
the people already doing most of it have the cash to pay overages and such so if this is JUST for them it don't work.
No business can raise rates that MUCH and not expect people on low end of what they download to actually pay more too.
ALL this does is LOSE THEM MONEY.
This is America trying to put the isps into a get people off the net.
Maybe we should drop it entirely and just say stuff you. AND when those idiots realize were still not buying there crap they will go the frak away.
Nothing like penalizing hte poor and disadvantaged i say , KILL EM ALL eh BELL/Cogeco/ROGERS
yup lets just shove em all out on a raft into the artics and be done with it eh..... | |
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Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC | Re: ISPs are a Business If the businesses made a poor decision (as you claim), then they will fail. That is how it works, right? Why get up in arms if the company is only hurting itself? | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| They are FOLLOWING Rogers in the "New Competitive" Market Rogers recently increased prices for several tiers and imposed caps. Bell has done the same ... so in a true competitive manner, Cogeco has simply followed suit!
Not about making money? It's not really about lack of competition, because the big guys ignore competition. It's all about charging what they think the market will bear. | |
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| me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: They are FOLLOWING Rogers in the "New Competitive" Market If there was real competition I don't think they would have caps. Look at cablevision they had caps FiOS came along with no caps and what did CV do? The killed the cap AND got a 101m package also with no cap. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: They are FOLLOWING Rogers in the "New Competitive" Market If you look at the US market and the Canadian market, there's little difference. In any given geography, there's the telco offering DSL and the cable company offering DOCSIS.
FIOS is only available in select markets, and the goal of the telco is penetration, so they offer sweet deals until they've got the needed penetration, then they'll start laying on the caps and price rises, and you'll be back in the same quagmire again. | |
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| | | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: They are FOLLOWING Rogers in the "New Competitive" Market Which, IMHO, is why we need new independent (small)ISPs to help with competition. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: They are FOLLOWING Rogers in the "New Competitive" Market The problem is that the difference in size means that the small independent can be smooshed quite easily since they typically have to rely on the telco or cable operator for last mile service, which the telco or cable operator abuse. It makes competition very hard. | |
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BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
| Re: Raising rates + low caps As a network administrator, I find it necessary to block a lot of things in the name of bandwidth conservation. That side of me says, you are to be using this service for certain things, and if you try anything I'm gonna hammer you for it. I only hold that view because we are limited with our measly connections as a rural school district. Now, if I had T3's and OC's at my disposal, I could care less. Only until it becomes a real problem, will I have to deal with it. The point is, they(Rogers, Comcast, Cogeco, Cox etc...) DO HAVE the capacity, this is simply money grubbing and scaredy-cat tactics to hold on to their TV stuff. (God I love services like Hulu, Netflix, etc...)
You are all correct in saying there is no competition. Funny... I have to throttle my users, simply because the ISP doesn't provide any higher services...because nobody is going to challenge them. | |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: Raising rates + low caps said by BBBanditRuR :The point is, they(Rogers, Comcast, Cogeco, Cox etc...) DO HAVE the capacity, this is simply money grubbing and scaredy-cat tactics to hold on to their TV stuff. (God I love services like Hulu, Netflix, etc...) Really? Then why are they spending tons of money on SDV, 1GHz plant upgrades, DOCSIS 3.0, node splits, etc? Maybe they have capacity on their long haul networks, but it sure doesn't seem like they have a glut of capacity on the last mile side.
Having said that, I am a fan of flat rate pricing and I think these new schemes are a step backwards.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM | |
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BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
| Re: Raising rates + low caps Maybe in your area. Maybe you have competition. I'm not saying they aren't spending money. Just not where it needs to be, or in disproportion to their footprint. When I apply for e-rate, and lo-and behold, all I get are resellers of Qwest, is that really an alternative? | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by BillRoland :said by BBBanditRuR :The point is, they(Rogers, Comcast, Cogeco, Cox etc...) DO HAVE the capacity, this is simply money grubbing and scaredy-cat tactics to hold on to their TV stuff. (God I love services like Hulu, Netflix, etc...) Really? Then why are they spending tons of money on SDV, 1GHz plant upgrades, DOCSIS 3.0, node splits, etc? Another 30 HBO HD channels and another 50 HD sports channels, both in premium packages. | |
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yeah_dunno
| I think that it's sort of like this:
These are corporations, businesses. As such, their actions don't make sense because it's not one person calling all the shots. There are many different influences involved.
There are influences, perhaps for a lack of a better word, or certain sources of concepts that will push for caps - a certain ideology within the corporation that is acquired and cultivated by certain individuals holding certain conceptual positions.
Then there is the whole upgrading thing, the modernizing thing. A customer is put in the position of having to reconcile the two, and it doesn't make sense. The folks who work at the corporation don't see that, they just carry on brainwashing themselves or whatever.
Obviously, there's going to be more and more push for bandwidth - and eventually, someone who works at the corp is going to discover that money can be made offering content this way. At some point, perhaps, prices in Canada and Europe will drop, and drop, and we'll have to see what happens in the US. Maybe they'll stop these silly things they're doing, maybe other folks will switch, who knows. It's not perfect, in any case.
But anyway, a corporation is never going to behave like a logical individual would. It's just sort of a melting pot of all the different influences of all the different departments or what-not. Customers get to make sense of it all, and it's doesn't really make sense.
Guess it goes to show ya that life isn't perfect. | |
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urbanriot
join:2004-10-18
St Catharines, ON | Re: A free market is voluntary. Well, what if you don't give consent and go elsewhere for your "property rights"? | |
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qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | Let's see...$2.50 for bandwidth that costs them a dime.... OR LESS!
a 25X markup!
Sounds about right-after all those poor cablecos are barely breaking even as they operate as a public service... | |
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XNemesis
join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON
| The sheeple are content Thing is that most people just accept these changes and just stay clueless to the fact they're getting gouged, ripped off, etc.
I wonder what it will take to really push people to the edge and decide with their wallets that they don't like what Canadian monopolies are doing with Canadian broadband options with crazy prices and outrageous overage fees. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| canadian isp market is dysfunctional- for consumers the ISP market up north's been in need of regulation & reform for quite some time now. if you think consumer protections in the USA are terrible due to 8 years of neglect and lack of oversight.. look up north. lock step behind that is the usa market's rate regulation on the way.. as long as this trend (of screwing the constomer) continues... the ISP broadband market can expect states to begin regulating pricing and terms of service-- primarily becuase the public infrastructure upon which these companies profit from are part of the public trust and large ISP corporations are VIOLATING THAT TRUST, which means there is two prime solutions-- open the market to competitors.. or rate regulation. | |
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bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| Until the Broadband infrastructure is nationalized... things are only going to get worse. E-mail and light web surfing are all you will be able to afford to do. The government allowed for the destruction in competition in the market by allowing companies to become monopolies. It is time they did something to reverse this trend. Be it nationalization or simple legislation. | |
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chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23 | Nationalization could work..but when you have harperites that get bought and paid for and introduce BILL-C61 style legislation ram massive debts into the public and all but toss out morality , that's a thing we need to fix first. | |
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origfromcanada
@surewest.net | Re: Nationalization could work..but All I can say is FFFFF those greedy bastages. Ill glady go to libraries and get my internet there uncapped through wifi. | |
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| | NefCanuck
join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Nationalization could work..but said by origfromcanada :
All I can say is FFFFF those greedy bastages. Ill glady go to libraries and get my internet there uncapped through wifi.
If you think that's going to last (assuming that Cogeco provides the internet services to the libraries in your area) then I have some fantastic swampland to sell you in Toronto
Libraries can't run deficits either and if they hit overages because of people sucking back the bytes, things are gonna change real quick.
NefCanuck | |
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Cogeco Raises Rates After Charging Overages
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