Dozens of AT&T/Verzion Wiretap Suits Dismissed Meet the new boss, same as the old boss... Tipped by taxpro 
Given Obama's support for telecom company immunity for handing over consumer data wholesale to the NSA without a warrant, it wasn't particularly surprising to see the administration perpetuate the Bush Administration's positions on domestic wiretapping and privacy (or the lack thereof). As the new administration repeats the positions of the old, a Federal Court yesterday dismissed dozens of lawsuits against AT&T and Verizon for privacy violations. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) says they'll appeal the ruling: "We're deeply disappointed in Judge Walker's ruling today," said EFF Legal Director Cindy Cohn. "The retroactive immunity law unconstitutionally takes away Americans' claims arising out of the First and Fourth Amendments, violates the federal government's separation of powers as established in the Constitution, and robs innocent telecom customers of their rights without due process of law." The EFF found themselves at the heart of the debate when they obtained documents (pdf) from 22-year technician Mark Klein, which highlighted how AT&T had built a room entirely dedicated to directly funneling data -- from multiple carriers -- wholesale to the NSA without a warrant or Judicial oversight.
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  sirwoogieBlahPremium
join:2002-01-02
Carleton, MI | Change ...we can believe in. | |
|  |  Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
1 edit | Re: Change Oh, never seen that one before. You're clever! 
While this pisses me off to no end, if you thought every single thing in Washington was going to change, you (not you specifically) are a fool. A lot has changed and a lot already is changing, but unfortunately this didn't and I hope the EFF is able to win this battle.
Psst, the judge who dismissed it was appointed by Bushie the 1st: »www.fjc.gov/servlet/tGetInfo?jid=2483 | |
| | | | | Re: Change Yeah, I'm not happy about this one (understatement), but I'm looking at the bigger picture. Which is undoubtedly changing for the better. I haven't taken an in-depth look at these cases yet, but I really believe that this was just plain wrong. | |
| | | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2
 ·Bright House
| Re: Change said by expert007:Yeah, I'm not happy about this one (understatement), but I'm looking at the bigger picture. Translated:I'm not going to make the same stink over it that I would if it were Bush we're talking about.
The severity of the crime depends on who's committing it, after all.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Change Check your instant messages Spanky, I don't take kindly to others "translating" my posts. Have a nice day. | |
| | | | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bright House
| Re: Change said by expert007:Check your instant messages Spanky, I don't take kindly to others "translating" my posts. Have a nice day. Like everyone, I'm totally blown away by the force of...
...whatever it is you have.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Change Um.....yeah.
Because anyone who doesn't think like you is quite obviously a .......(insert whatever adjective you like).
There is simply no other way. Thank you for showing me the light. | |
| | | | | | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bright House
| Re: Change That's Yea BABY! to you.
said by expert007:Because anyone who doesn't think like you is quite obviously a .......(insert whatever adjective you like). A competent re-examination would reveal that it is the LACK of thinking that merits the bulk of my concern.
The exception being
when I outline the points
that prove how certain lines of thinking
are undeniably delusional.
At that point, I'm not offering an opinion of the delusion, just exposing it to the searing light of reason.
Once folks understand the delusion for what it is, they can formulate their own opinions.
said by expert007:There is simply no other way. Thank you for showing me the light. Hey, no problem. I am the living embodiment of Public Service.
I'd be remiss if I let may God-given gifts go to waste.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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| |  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | said by Matt3: A lot has changed and a lot already is changing Other than even more government spending and waste, I haven't seen much change. | |
| | | | Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Change said by jester121:said by Matt3: A lot has changed and a lot already is changing Other than even more government spending and waste, I haven't seen much change. You see what you want to see. If you don't want to see any, you won't. If you look at the educational, scientific, economic, and worldwide perception changes that have taken place already, you might have a different perspective. | |
| | | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Change Things have changed.. some for the better, some for the worse. | |
| | | | | | Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 |  Re: Change
said by en102:Things have changed.. some for the better, some for the worse. I think that is a very fair and open-minded assessment of the situation. | |
| | | | | | | barn25
join:2005-11-17
Springfield, IL | Re: Change I have to agree with that... | |
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| | | | jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | said by Matt3:You see what you want to see. If you don't want to see any, you won't. If you look at the educational, scientific, economic, and worldwide perception changes that have taken place already, you might have a different perspective. Not really. I don't go in much for touchy-feely when it comes to observing government action. I see insane amounts of spending, campaign promises broken on a near daily basis, shocking hypocricy and cowardly pandering, and a power grab by the federal government that we may never recover from. A lot more of the worst of the previous administration, none of the good, and a lot that I never imagined we'd see.
And "worldwide perception" isn't a metric I care much about -- after today's speech it's pretty clear that Isreal is going to have little choice but to send a little present to Iran to try to prevent or delay their own destruction, since the CIC isn't going to lift a finger.
Anyhow, this has gotten pretty off topic for DSLR's news page.  | |
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| | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by jester121:Other than even more government spending and waste, I haven't seen much change. Explain how that's changed from the previous administration. Oh, it hasn't. Oh in fact the waste and spending you talk about is largely to help fix the mess that was made.
Also, there's another saying "You find what you're looking for."
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Change said by KrK:said by jester121:Other than even more government spending and waste, I haven't seen much change. Explain how that's changed from the previous administration. Oh, it hasn't. Oh in fact the waste and spending you talk about is largely to help fix the mess that was made. I bolded the 2 important words that apparently you missed. Got it now?
None of the trillions in spending is going to do anything to "fix" the mess; it's going to drastically increase the size of the government and its debt, and saddle future generations with it. It's nothing new and it's not a (R) or (D) issue. It's just wrong. | |
| | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Change said by jester121:It's nothing new and it's not a (R) or (D) issue. It's just wrong. Its the 2 party system issue. Either way one of the 2 win, and if you bribe both.....
republic != democracy
the US republic is a monarchy of lords who elect their puppet king
remember a true federal republic usually turns into a low level civil war as members of the federation take their states rights to the limit, thats the closest you can get to a democracy in a federal republic | |
| | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by jester121:None of the trillions in spending is going to do anything to "fix" the mess; it's going to drastically increase the size of the government and its debt, and saddle future generations with it. It's nothing new and it's not a (R) or (D) issue. It's just wrong. Actually, I think the staved off a disaster with this spending. Yes, I know it's a disaster we had to do this, but I believe had they NOT done this, out entire economy would have collapsed and we'd be living under marshal law right now.
You may find this video interesting. Listen to the angry caller at first, and then the reply. But the important part comes about 2:20 or so into the video. Listen to what he says about a global run on our banks.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMu1mFao3w
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | sirwoogieBlahPremium
join:2002-01-02
Carleton, MI | Wow... cranky. It's a pessimistic post... get used to it.
Things have changed for the worse overall, not better. While I agree that certain perceptions from the world have changed, the important ones have not. Fortunately, the current president isn't a bumbling idiot as the previous one was. Yes, Obama hasn't shown much to be encouraged about:
• Absolutely no course change on hiding the fact of spying on Americans (e.g. this topic).
• Not punishing those that ordered or performed torture. Most especially for using your own Justice department to increase the pressure to close all cases that relate to this (e.g. photos, trials in California, etc.).
• A veiled attempt to close Guantanamo while simultaneously further the use of a camp in Afghanistan.
• Continuing the bailout of industries and corporate entities. Downright becoming a dictator with respect to automotive companies.
• Encouraging (in fact threatening... "we don't get it passed this year, it'll never pass") a completely socialistic health care program.
and so on. I agree, he has done some good things. But when you have nowhere to go but up, that doesn't necessarily translate into success. Also, don't use the excuse of "give him time." He's had time to do things, and the things he has done have made it worse for Americans overall. | |
| | | | Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Change Again, I don't view all the things you've mentioned in the same light as you. I could go bullet-point by bullet-point and offer my counter-points, but in politics, opinions (and facts) rarely change the views of others.
So, I'll leave it with this -- I completely disagree with you. | |
| | | | | | Health care socialist? said by sirwoogie:• Encouraging (in fact threatening... "we don't get it passed this year, it'll never pass") a completely socialistic health care program. We already have socialized health care. Public law sets quality standards for goods and services higher than a truly "free market" would produce. The result is that those who can't afford this artificially (socially) created market are threatened with prison if they attempt to purchase lessor medical services from someone who isn't duly licensed by *the* medical association. Or, tries to purchase lessor products (like medicine) from a neighbor who makes it in their bathtub.
I'm not necessarily saying we should have a truly "lassez faire," market-driven health care system. But, it's creative to say that what we have now isn't socialized.
IMO, what we have to today is incredibly perverse. We limit health care choices for the poor. We deny them the opportunity to purchase inferior goods and services if that's all they can afford. We do this so everyone else's "market-based" choices will be easier. (Their "market" outcomes more predictable than if they had to perform their own due diligence in a wild, raw, "free" market of willing buyers and willing sellers.). And then, when it's suggested that this is essentially a *wealth transfer* from the poor (denying them a market of willing buyers and sellers which would exist in a free market), we're told that anyone who would suggest this is a *socialist.*
Mark | |
| | | | | | | | | | | jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Health care socialist? said by Matt3:The socialism argument always makes me laugh. Percentage of American corporations that the government is entitled to own: 0%. No graph needed. | |
| | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Health care socialist? said by jester121:Percentage of American corporations that the government is entitled to own: 0%. No graph needed. Hardly entitled. Paid for them. Way overpaid for them, actually, to stop them from dying off.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by jester121:said by Matt3:The socialism argument always makes me laugh. Percentage of American corporations that the government is entitled to own: 0%. No graph needed. You're right. Clearly the solution is to let them fail, force hundreds of thousands to become unemployed, and further burden the system. | |
| | | | | | | | jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Health care socialist? said by Matt3:You're right. Clearly the solution is to let them fail, force hundreds of thousands to become unemployed, and further burden the system. Ah, it's all about "the system" isn't it? I thought the Democrats were all about the individual and standing up the little guy? Central planning takes care of that nicely (at least until it's actually tried outside of a textbook or manifesto.) | |
| | | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by Matt3:You're right. Clearly the solution is to let them fail, force hundreds of thousands to become unemployed, and further burden the system. Taking them over is just the end step in corporate welfare, why worry about cranky stockholders, we promise we wont complain, but we do want 100% of your dividends as income tax. The scheme is that they are now/will be a great source of tax revenue, 100% tax, its delicious. Plus all those jobs create tax revenue (FICA/etc). That bailout money, unless there is typical corporate graft, will become wages with a 35% cut into taxes, or higher (sales, property, etc), so the govt is just giving itself $ using the car company as a front. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Health care socialist? All this ranting is impressive, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that the Federal Gov't actually has an exit strategy for GM, and it's less than 5 years. MUCH less than 5 years.
Sorry to rain on your right wing parade. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by amigo_boy:said by sirwoogie:• Encouraging (in fact threatening... "we don't get it passed this year, it'll never pass") a completely socialistic health care program. We already have socialized health care. Public law sets quality standards for goods and services higher than a truly "free market" would produce. The result is that those who can't afford this artificially (socially) created market are threatened with prison if they attempt to purchase lessor medical services from someone who isn't duly licensed by *the* medical association. Or, tries to purchase lessor products (like medicine) from a neighbor who makes it in their bathtub. I'm not necessarily saying we should have a truly "lassez faire," market-driven health care system. But, it's creative to say that what we have now isn't socialized. IMO, what we have to today is incredibly perverse. We limit health care choices for the poor. We deny them the opportunity to purchase inferior goods and services if that's all they can afford. We do this so everyone else's "market-based" choices will be easier. (Their "market" outcomes more predictable than if they had to perform their own due diligence in a wild, raw, "free" market of willing buyers and willing sellers.). And then, when it's suggested that this is essentially a *wealth transfer* from the poor (denying them a market of willing buyers and sellers which would exist in a free market), we're told that anyone who would suggest this is a *socialist.* Mark Yep, free market doesn't exist. Capitalism turns everything into a natural monopoly with the military/police/courts to enforce the monopoly.
Other examples, zoning code where anything other than an empty lot in the municipal limit requires a zoning code waiver which is at the board's personal vaguely following a master plan that changes every 5 years.
Unions that bribe the feds and state govts to legislatively enforce closed shops.
In my experience, and the comments of my cynical doctor relatives, all of medicine follows a flow chart enforced by malpractice lawsuits, NIH (read federal govt) studies, and personality cult supporting peer review journal articles. The flow charts almost always say treat symptoms, the cause is irrelevant until you fall down unconscious Prozac and Oxycontin and Adderal fix all, or spend $50K per incident in xray/ct/mri/dye tracing for a stubbed toe since it might be toe cancer, or the paper cut might be infected. Violating the flowchart is instantly wining a malpractice lawsuit. 90% of the health care, outside of surgery, can be done by a McDonalds worker following the flow chart, with the same salary, nurses and doctors are just pork jobs. Nurse assistants sort of are an implementation of the McDonalds worker concept.
Another problem is treatments that work 5% over placebo, yet costs $1000s, but by "ethics" and malpractice lawsuits you have to do. Cancer treatment is filled with them. Your going to die, face it, spending more $ than you will earn in your lifetime on your treatment is insane.
Its funny when you read these studies on drugs that have a 40% placebo cure rate and the drug has a %45 drug cure rate (looking at an antacid). Maybe its time to just prescribe Supernull 45mg.
50 years ago cholesterol levels were irrelevant, because there were no drugs for them. Now with cooked studies, drug companies make a fortune off old fat asses that stuff their face with burgers and fries and wonder why they have heart attacks and are so fat (no your 60 inch waist line and your motorized wheelchair means your "healthy" and not going to die of tuberculosis). Loose the ****ing weight, no drugs and no insurance for you. You have a desk job, your not in a cotton field or a coal mine from dawn to dusk, an 8000 calorie diet was for your ancestors, not you. Its like giving a lung transplant to a smoker.
The lack of co-payments in medicare/medicaid and medicare/supplementary medicare insurance people makes them run to the doc every time for a paper cut wasting $100s if not $1000s.
Also research for a cure is not allowed in the USA. If you propose a cure, you will never get funding, and your university director will shut you down for being psuedoscience, and establishment will bad mouth you if you go looking for private investors/donations. A cure never made any doctor or company money. NIH/university/drug company system will NEVER EVER find a cure for AIDS or Cancer, its financial suicide. Only the treatments that promise to be the most expensive ever get R&Ded. So your Medicare style socialized medicine system for all will skyrocket like a hockeystick from 5% of the US GDP to maybe 50% or higher, this country's economy will just exist on giving healthcare, we will be like Saudia Arabia, but with healthcare instead of oil. | |
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|  exocet_cmI am the law - Judge DreddPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Yes We Can! | |
| |  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | There was a change option on the table, but very few voted for him. Nader only got like 3% of the vote despite being the only viable candidate that stood for the rights of citizens against corporations and corrupted gov't.
I guess "we" get what we vote for...
...ooops, I'm stuck with what *you* voted for! | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Good
Has the EFF or anyone actually proved that our rights were abused or are they still just blowing smoke?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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See 39 replies to this post | |
IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
1 edit | Let me understand the legal ruling here. Seemingly it's OK to break the law so long as it's in national security interest.
Surely that's an oxymoron?
So in this court's mind who has the authority to decide whether it's in the national security interests? Since this ruling has now allowed the bypassing of Federal Judges, who could/should have been asked for warrants. So that legal authority has now been assumed by some faceless entity?
What legal nonsense is this? A Judge has ruled that Federal Judges are an inappropriate authority to make quick rulings on warrants!!!!! | |
| |  POBRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA | Re: Let me understand the legal ruling here. said by IanR:Seemingly it's OK to break the law so long as it's in national security interest. Let me break it down for you. Telecom immunity = Certain persons, including the non-carbon kind that are incorporated in the Caymans so they don't have to pay U.S. taxes - are above the law.
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The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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| | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
1 edit | Re: Let me understand the legal ruling here. Okay, break it down for us, specifically, which telecom corporations are you talking about? I would like to know so that I can avoid business dealings with them. | |
| | | | | | Re: Let me understand the legal ruling here. All except Qwest | |
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| | | Remember, when the .gov does it, it's not illegal.
I guess we just elected Richard Nixon three times in a row... | |
| | | | No laws were broken, nothing illegal is alleged. The lawsuits are about people claiming civil harm. | |
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MTUPremium
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA | Scared in Power Face it, big-brother has been listening and recording everything for decades. Unfortunately, the agencies (NSA, FBI, CIA) have not shared info until post disaster. The inevitable 'next attack' no doubt influences recent decisions. Politicians fear the 'blame' game and thus, continue ignoring and bending the law. Our intelligence agencies depend on listening-in to all communications as assets on-the-ground have limited success with the bad-guy's organizations, and are expensive. Thus, the vacuum-cleaner approach. What's really bad is that this 'casualness' to following the law and constitution is becoming SOP. | |
| | | SIlly Liberals... The bottom line is that there would be page after page of ranting and screaming if this was still the "W" era - just go back into the archives to see it.
Now, that the obama washington crowd seems to have the same position, most everybody just shrugs it off.
Pathetic. ANOTHER reason to 'remember the change (not)' when the next congressional election rolls around in 2010.
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3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !' | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: SIlly Liberals... said by jay_rm:Pathetic. ANOTHER reason to 'remember the change (not)' when the next congressional election rolls around in 2010. politicians are never held to anything they say, haven't you learned? | |
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| | Here's something to ponder let's first take a small puff on the crack pipe. so in 'some reality' ATT, Verizon, and other companies that performed the wiretaps get convicted and charged with fines. what about the people (bush administration, pretty much most of congress) that ordered it to be done? are they not an accessory to a crime? it vaguely resembles hiring a hitman to kill someone, the hitman (assuming he isn't an undercover law enforcement agent) and the hirer both are charges with a crime.
i don't have much of a problem with no legal action against ATT and Verizon (and possible others), my main problem is that the people that ordered it to be done are seemingly getting no attention what-so-ever. who is to say that the people ordering the wiretaps won't do it again? in another possibly poor analogy; it is like going after the low men on the totem pole of organized crime, the management still is around to find new recruits and carry on their business as usual. | |
| | | | Re: Here's something to ponder that's a pretty good crack pipe since this is not about "conviction" or "fines" or "crime" at all. There is no issue in play about the legality of what was done, except in some Constitutional courtroom argument sense. | |
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| | Security issues, etc. Well now I had hoped that the obama administration would repeal these unconstitutional monitoring and security policies. However, once one tastes the power that comes with monitoring and abusing citizens' privacy it is all too difficult to stop taking the drug you have been addicted to. I too am disappointed with it and regardless of which party is in power this is F'ing ridiculous.
Anyway, trouncing on our rights and freedoms is something all politicans are doing these days although honestly it started with the last administration. I think that other freedoms should be protected as well which is one area where I diverge from a lot of extemist democrats. For instance, I will believe in the right to own and bear arms. It is codified in the constitution quite clearly.
There are a few other areas that I diverge from the "stereotypical" views of people in the democratic party but not many to be honest. Politicians just seem to do what they want sometimes. I think that bailing out the banks was necessary even though I didn't it like otherwise we'd really have been in some deep S by now. However, none of the other companies such as auto etc should have been bailed out at all. GM and Chrysler sealed their own fate. They should've been left to rot in their own waste.
As for Healthcare. Most (not all) of the concerns about healthcare that right wingers talk about is based on crap and FUD promulgated by the Insurance industry that is traditionally stricken with various avarice syndromes and spins on facts of information. Either way the healthcare system is failing and needs to be fixed. Private business cannot and will not fix it on its own. In some form it will take business AND government to fix it. Left to its own the healthcare system will only get worse. The system needs a pitchfork in the A to go where it needs.
As for broadband, the government will have to take a lead on this SOME as well. As left to private industry some areas will never have any kind of broadband available even in some areas of cities that have been waiting for 10 years which is ridiculous. Once again, it will take government and business with a few pitch forks in the A of telcos, etc to put things on track.
Too many people do not pay attention to facts or at least accept what they hear on the Faux or Fixed news channel as facts when really they have simply hired a talking head who never researched a subject in depth enough (healthcare for instance) to find out the facts and/or they have their own interests in things remaining the way they are. CNN is guilty of it sometimes too but in a different way. I don't trust either of them but esp NOT Faux news.
The only news orgs I like in broadcasting anymore is the PBS Lehrer news hour and NPR news on the radio (also BBC). Sometimes, a newspaper or magazine article from at least a somewhat reputable source (which is difficult to come by).
Just my two cents worth. Good day! | |
| | | | Re: Security issues, etc. chrismartenson.com "Crash Course"
A place to find out what is going on with your country. Learning economics tells you where the money went and how the power is distributed in America. What's coming and how to prepare for it.
You will be surprised.........amazed........ down right terrified...where we are headed....... | |
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boble88
join:2001-12-20
Somerville, MA | Wiretap Will everyone just shut up, please. Bush this, Bush that and "My freedom is gone, Bush stole my freedom". A parrot makes more sense. Half the morons in this country think they were being "wiretapped". It's all over people, Bush is gone and a new era has begun. Just let it go. | |
| | | | Re: Wiretap its all over? Isn't this story all about how Obama is upholding the "SAME" wiretapping concepts as President George W. Bush decreed?
Just let it go?
Why should I or anyone else?
I thought Obama was going to change this nonsense into something right(I really never thought this). I thought Hussein stood for freedom and independence(because of his crafty logo during the campaign). I thought Barrack stood for more than just a change in tone of skin(never believed this either). I thought I was going to get free gas((»www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI).
Oh well I guess being my house isn't being paid for I'll just let it go. | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Huh? "immunity for handing over consumer data ... without a warrant"
Um, yeah. That's not wiretapping. | |
| | | we don't need no stinkin warrants to tap your phones! J. Edgar Hoover would be proud! | |
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