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CRTC Blocks Canada's WIND Wireless Network
Sorry, you're just not Canadian enough...

The CRTC earlier this year couldn't be bothered to come to the defense of independent ISPs facing extinction due to Bell Canada's sudden throttling efforts, but the regulatory agency amazingly came alive this week to stop the entry of a new wireless phone competitor in Canada. A CRTC ruling has banned Globalive, a new entrant into the Canadian market, from doing business in Canada. Why? because it's 61% owned by Orascom, a telecom company that does ample business in the Middle East, Africa, Europe and South Asia.

Canadian regulation, lobbied for by incumbent companies, prohibits any telecom networks that aren't majority-Canadian owned. The entry of WIND would be the first major threat to Bell Canada, Telus and Rogers in more than a decade, so the companies lobbied the CRTC extensively to investigate and ban Wind's market entry. Wind Mobile has issued a press release saying that the ruling's odd, given another Canadian agency had already given them the green light, they were already allowed to purchase spectrum, and they were well into the process of employing 500 people and setting up operations:
quote:
In its decision, the CRTC came to a different conclusion than Industry Canada and has indicated that Globalive Wireless is not in compliance with the Canadian ownership and control requirements set out in the Telecommunications Act..."We will be evaluating our options on how to proceed," says Ken Campbell, CEO of WIND Mobile.
Canadian Law Professor Michael Geist blames the entire affair on outdated pseudo-patriotic regulation, being a bit too kind to the CRTC (stocked with phone industry executives) and Canada's incumbent phone giants (who lobbied for the original restrictions and initiated the investigation in the first place). Mike Masnick at Techdirt gets to the point, noting how such pseudo-patriotic moves are usually just another form of protectionism that ultimately winds up crippling competition and harming consumers, be it in the U.S., Canada, or Tajikistan.
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Chuck Carlso
@dsl.bell.ca

Chuck Carlso

Anon

CRTC Blocks Canada's WIND Wireless Network

I guess i'll pass on any wireless plans i had.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

1 edit

1 recommendation

Robert

Premium Member

Sucks, but loved the commercials

I love their commercials.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· =related


»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· =related

treich
join:2006-12-12

treich

Member

about wireless in CA

thank god I live in US and we have different options for internet connections. Its sad that canada is mostly own by bell

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: about wireless in CA

Living in Canada isn't that bad.
I keep my citizenship up in case I need to go back for healthcare.

osme
Premium Member
join:2001-09-07
Brantford

osme

Premium Member

Re: about wireless in CA

said by en102:

Living in Canada isn't that bad.
I keep my citizenship up in case I need to go back for healthcare.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you've been living out of the country for a while and you no longer have an up to date health card, no health care for you.

wvc5239
@teksavvy.com

wvc5239

Anon

Re: about wireless in CA

said by osme:

said by en102:

Living in Canada isn't that bad.
I keep my citizenship up in case I need to go back for healthcare.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you've been living out of the country for a while and you no longer have an up to date health card, no health care for you.
Not to mention, citizenship has nothing to do with the right to health care; its residency and taxes

menumorut
BE an American.
join:2005-07-04
Queens Village, NY

menumorut to osme

Member

to osme
If is anything like EU, Canadian citizens will never loose the right to free-low quality, long waiting lists-health care.

Health card should not be a problem, just show up at the local "commissary" and have it renewed.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to en102

Member

to en102
Never mind that the USA says you CAN NOT have Citizenship in TWO COUNTRIES! It's illegal.

davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC

davoice

Member

Re: about wireless in CA

Wrong! Dual citizenship if perfectly legal and many people maintain dual citizenship.

»travel.state.gov/travel/ ··· 753.html

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un ··· izenship

}Davoice

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

Hopefully competition is not over before it begins

At worst, and if all else fails I would strongly recommend WINDmobile/Orascom sue Canada at the WTO as they've paid for spectrum they can't use.

hurleyp
join:2000-06-20
Ottawa, ON

hurleyp

Member

Re: Hopefully competition is not over before it begins

Hopefully something like Google Voice will render the whole CRTC industrial complex irrelevant in the near future.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

Re: Hopefully competition is not over before it begins

Unfortunately if the internet keeps being regulated as it is, google voice may never materialize in Canada!

Luongo
@zeugmasystems.com

Luongo

Anon

Regulation

Most countries have this kind of regulation. The US is the worst for it, anything that is not "made in America" and so on is hated. Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.

And what about all the "buy American" provisions in the stimulus?

If you are going to whine about protectionism, look in your own back yard!

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

said by Luongo :

Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.
T-Mobile? Largely owned by Duetche (sp?) Telecom...

Verizon Wireless...Isnt one of the major owners some French company..starts with a "V" I think.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Regulation

Vodafone, they're a British company... (well, based in Britain, but they're all over the world- second-largest mobile phone company behind China Mobile, and they own 2% of that IIRC) Plus, before the joint-venture VZW was created, they were called Vodafone AirTouch and owned 100% of AirTouch Wireless.

Though, I have to admit I think an Egyptian company like Orascom would get more suspicion in the US too than a Western European company would.
jsb825
Premium Member
join:2003-10-08
Exeter, NH

2 edits

jsb825 to swintec

Premium Member

to swintec
See and the funny thing is that BELL is 100% owned by a TEACHERS PENSION FUND IN THE USA!!!! SO WTF!!! Bell is in bed with the CRTC, or the CRTC is being paid off by BELL to create this mega monopoly. Hence why I dropped the b as tards when I could. Bell you suck!!! Your so threatened by competition that you buy your way to success.. F U Bell.. I hope your company goes belly up when the public hears of your scammy ways!!

Edit: So what this new WIND mobile should do is have a canadian come in and start the company, run it for 1 year with support and then have this wind company come and purchase it for billions and billions and walla, bye bye bell!! I mean bell now owns virgin mobile for crist sakes. What the F is going on with this monopoly, and the CRTC continues to let BELL beat down their resellers and throttling their bandwidth, and they say they don't have time for the complaints? CRTC DO YOUR EF IN JOB!!!! Or I will stop paying my EF in Taxes cause its not protecting me!!!
jsb825

jsb825

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

CRTC = BELL and BELL = TEACHERS PENSION FUND OF THE USA

So can the CRTC really justify their actions with WINDS mobile? I think not. CRTC is not government owned, its BELL OWNED!!!
jsb825

jsb825

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

CRTC is the TELECOM as USA is to OIL

BUSTED!!!!
jsb825

2 edits

jsb825

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

BOYCOT BELL!!!! I am in a company that resells telecom products, and thank god they don't sell bell products. I would NEVER stay in a company where my money is supporting a corrupt company with no standards and no direction!! Just money hungry out for their own pockets, then a new company who wants to help customers save money while still making money gets shut down. And we pay the government our tax dollar to stick us like that? Time for a new government policy!!! Or maybe time to overthrow this corrupt NORTH AMERICAN NEW WORLD ORDER and get back our freedoms!! Isn't that why we fight? So lets wage a war against the CANADIAN and US GOVERNMENTS to WIN BACK THE VERY FREEDOM THEY ARE SLOWLY TAKING AWAY FROM US!!

Bell = worried about their own pockets
Winds Mobile = Worried about customers and their own pockets

Big difference. At least Winds CARES. There is a word I think Bell needs to go back to first grade and learn! I mean really. Teachers Pension Fund? Maybe you should teach yourself some more First Grade Manors!!

pfak
Premium Member
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC

pfak to jsb825

Premium Member

to jsb825
Uhm, do you by any chance mean the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund?

»www.associatedcontent.co ··· rio.html
gpmoo7
join:2009-01-03
Montreal, QC

gpmoo7 to swintec

Member

to swintec
said by swintec:

T-Mobile? Largely owned by Duetche (sp?) Telecom...

Verizon Wireless...Isnt one of the major owners some French company..starts with a "V" I think.
Verizon is owned by Vodafone (UK) (owners of SFR in France).

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 recommendation

Karl Bode to Luongo

News Guy

to Luongo
If you are going to whine about protectionism, look in your own back yard!
Nobody was saying otherwise. I wish airlines like KLM could come in and compete in our air travel sector...you'd see huge improvements.

anon
@rogers.com

anon to Luongo

Anon

to Luongo
Yes the US does have carriers that are partially foreign owned. T-Mobile is a subsidiary of a German based company and Verizon Wireless is a joint venture between Vodafone and Verizon Communications.

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7 to Luongo

Premium Member

to Luongo
Sorry to disillusion you, but most of the US is foreign owned already.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

1 recommendation

FFH5 to Luongo

Premium Member

to Luongo
said by Luongo :

Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.
Ever hear of T-Mobile 100% owned by Deutche Telekom of Germany.

And Verizon Wireless is 45% owned by Vodaphone of the UK.

And don't kid yourself about Canada. The majority are moderately xenophobic and have rules in many industries that discourage or prohibit foreign ownership. Visit the Canada forum and Canpol forums sometimes to see how people feel there about foreign ownership of Canadian based assets. So, even with the lure of a more competitive marketplace, many(if not a majority) of Canadians would back the CRTC ruling out of patriotic fervor.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

Member

Re: Regulation

see how you feel about cell phones in Canada after you get the bill. I could give a rats ass who owns the company. Just give me a bill that is under 50$ a month and some good rates on data.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
Well I may not be a member of the CanPol forums but I would strongly disagree.

Most Canadians have been howling to end the CRTC's CanCon and foreign ownership rules in the Telecom sector for years.

The only thing these rules have managed to do is create cancerous homegrown monopolies who will stifle innovation for years to come even after these rules are finally struck down.
El Quintron

El Quintron to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

[And don't kid yourself about Canada. The majority are moderately xenophobic and have rules in many industries that discourage or prohibit foreign ownership.
Not wanting American ownership of Canadian assets hardly qualifies as xenophobia. Whenever you give Americans anything they just take take take.

Ask any other country they've done business with.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

1 recommendation

Robert

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

said by El Quintron:

said by FFH5:

[And don't kid yourself about Canada. The majority are moderately xenophobic and have rules in many industries that discourage or prohibit foreign ownership.
Not wanting American ownership of Canadian assets hardly qualifies as xenophobia. Whenever you give Americans anything they just take take take.

Ask any other country they've done business with.
China? Japan? The EU? I'm not sure any would back up your claim, because it isn't true.

It's more like foreign countries want the U.S. to give give give and we do.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

2 recommendations

El Quintron

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

Kinda like you get our water and hydro at a discount?

And when the blackout happened your news media had the nerve to blame the problem on Canada when it actually originated in Ohio.

What I'm saying (to TK) is this:

The notion that politically mouthy Canadians don't want foreign investment is bullshit at best and slanderous at worst. What they don't want is hollowing out of nationally vital industries, especially not having yet more Canadian dollars flow into the US.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: Regulation

said by El Quintron:

Kinda like you get our water and hydro at a discount?

And when the blackout happened your news media had the nerve to blame the problem on Canada when it actually originated in Ohio.

What I'm saying (to TK) is this:

The notion that politically mouthy Canadians don't want foreign investment is bullshit at best and slanderous at worst. What they don't want is hollowing out of nationally vital industries, especially not having yet more Canadian dollars flow into the US.
It sounds like your issue is with your own government and not the United States.

•••••

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

Mike to El Quintron

Mod

to El Quintron
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gi ··· ng_sound
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
The Canadian ownership rules stop dividends and wealth from leaving Canada. If it wasn't for those rules, all of Canada would look like Detroit. US companies would buy canadian assets and shut them down permanently.
Doctorphate
join:2009-06-25
Ottawa, ON

Doctorphate to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Really? wow I had no idea that I was willing to spew money out my ass to support a Canadian company instead of a foreign owned company.

I, aswell as many other Canadians would pay whoever costs less, regardless of ownership.

However, if two companies had the same pricing and one was Canadian and the other was not, THEN I would support the Canadian owned company.

Kim Jong Il could own the company for all I care, just as long as I get my cheaper prices

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert to Luongo

Premium Member

to Luongo
said by Luongo :

Most countries have this kind of regulation. The US is the worst for it, anything that is not "made in America" and so on is hated. Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.

And what about all the "buy American" provisions in the stimulus?

If you are going to whine about protectionism, look in your own back yard!
T-Mobile is owned by Deutsche Telekom.

So yes, there ARE FOREIGN-OWNED phone companies sin the U.S.

•••

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 recommendation

fifty nine to Luongo

Member

to Luongo
said by Luongo :

Most countries have this kind of regulation. The US is the worst for it, anything that is not "made in America" and so on is hated. Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.

And what about all the "buy American" provisions in the stimulus?

If you are going to whine about protectionism, look in your own back yard!
IMO, in America we are quite the opposite. We are not protectionist enough, which is why when the dollar falls, the Europeans and Arabs buy up everything.

As for the stimulus, yes it should be buy American, because it's taxpayer dollars.

Time
Premium Member
join:2003-07-05
Irvine, CA

1 recommendation

Time to Luongo

Premium Member

to Luongo
said by Luongo :

Most countries have this kind of regulation. The US is the worst for it, anything that is not "made in America" and so on is hated. Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.

And what about all the "buy American" provisions in the stimulus?

If you are going to whine about protectionism, look in your own back yard!
Why shouldn't we use our tax payer dollars to fund local industries?

The sense of entitlement you exhibit is absolutely amazing.

••••

PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

PGHammer to Luongo

Member

to Luongo
said by Luongo :

Most countries have this kind of regulation. The US is the worst for it, anything that is not "made in America" and so on is hated. Are there any foreign-owned phone companies in the US? Think about it.

And what about all the "buy American" provisions in the stimulus?

If you are going to whine about protectionism, look in your own back yard!
Hated, yes; however, other than such provisions in the Recovery Act (which I would have voted NAY on, as they are indeed blatantly protectionist), they are usually NOT legislated against. (Also, the *domestic* provisions of the Recovery Act don't apply to either Canadian or Mexican companies, thanks to NAFTA, or to any country which enjoys MFN trade status with the US.)

Thanks to such regulation, Bell Canada, Rogers, and Shaw are perfectly within their rights to set up shop and compete with our ILECs, CLECs, and cable companies.

So, why haven't they?
Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON

Shark_615

Member

How Does

A Company get approved by one agency, buy spectrum and then get banned?

It would be nice if they just ignored the ruling and just moved forward.

•••

John25696
@rogers.com

John25696

Anon

Chicken wings, I like them

The CRTC is right on this one. Foreign power over any major industry/business weakens the country giving foreigners power over its eternal affairs. What they did is absolutely right, and suprising as a mater of fact; I did not know such fundamentals are still understood. As for problems the country already has with some of its companies it should go after those very same companies and eventualy after the very roots of this system that so grossly rewards greed. But that is another story. In the mean time fixing one problem by adding another, or adding a little 'patch' is foolish.

••••••••

zalternate
join:2007-02-22
freedom land

2 edits

zalternate

Member

What total B.S.

There was a fellow many years ago who wanted his country to be 'pure' of foreign types of people too.
I think his name was Hitler.
Canada exhibits the same type of inward turning rules and regulations. But not the killing of those that are not Heritage worthy.
Try BC in 2010. Our Canadian Constitution and Civil rights will be null and void for at least two months. Subject to $10,000 fines and 6 months jail for protest signs on private property. Oh, but Canadians would never protest. We are just too damn nice. Try our brand of Pepper Spray if you like.

Canada's Competition Bureau.
»www.cb-bc.gc.ca/eic/site ··· eng/home

And some 'Canadian' ownership people are just shills. Look at Hughesnet satellite Internet in Canada. Hughesnet calls the shots, But Xplornet(and a couple of others) does the billing as a reseller.

AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar

Member

It's Not Over Til It's Over...

This is far from final. Globalive has far too much already invested in Canada. It also has the blessing of Industry Canada which is the government of the day.
beachside
join:2009-06-28

beachside

Member

Re: It's Not Over Til It's Over...

Except the Industry Canada blessing comes with a disclaimer that the licensee must also pass a CRTC hearing on foreign ownership. It is stated clearly on the same letter that Industry Canada issues to award the licenses.

Globalive knew from day 1 that this would be an issue.
beachside

beachside

Member

The only possible outcome

The CRTC made the only decision they were allowed to under Canadian law. Anyone who sat in on the hearings with Globalive and the other presenters could tell that without a doubt Globalive was non-compliant. The CRTC did not have the authority to ignore the law or vary its application. Globalive was either compliant or not, and the CRTC found they were not.

This is not the end of it. There are lots of options and eventually Globalive in some form or another will launch in Canada.

I support the decision. Canada is my country and I expect people and companies to obey the laws of my country. I am disgusted at the thought of foreign companies trying to enter the country, break the laws and then extract jobs and money back out. It is not a case of whether we or they believe the law is correct. It is only a matter that right now it is the law.

njalondon
@ukonline.co.uk

njalondon

Anon

Europe - USA

I think if you look at the transatlantic relationship, the share of the economy controlled by the us in western europe and europe in the us, each controls roughly about 20% of the others economic output, it's the single largest investment relationship in the world as both together are around half of world gd(w?)p. You can't really blame the Canadians for feeling a bit protectionist , even if it results in higher prices and lower consumer choice.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

if globalive were serious

the main guy that owns 2/3 would sell a 3rd
then when hes at 49.9% which is technically in any HUGE company a controlling interest anyhow, this could be approved

HEY why not sell it to TSI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OR CAIP

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Supporting Monopolies?

Why does the CRTC want stop competition?

Price's in the US are high enough with competition. Prices in Canada are just insane with these monopolies.
Doctorphate
join:2009-06-25
Ottawa, ON

Doctorphate

Member

Re: Supporting Monopolies?

Its not that they WANT monopolies, its that they are told to rule in that way so they do. If they didn't, they wouldn't have jobs waiting for them at Bell and Rogers when they're done their stay.
Kdee9
join:2005-08-26
Etobicoke, ON

Kdee9

Member

It seems that there might be hope....

The Canadian Government is going to review the CRTC decision:

»itnerd.wordpress.com/200 ··· ecision/

n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

n2jtx

Member

Re: It seems that there might be hope....

said by Kdee9:

The Canadian Government is going to review the CRTC decision:

»itnerd.wordpress.com/200 ··· ecision/
Don't get your hopes up. Anytime you have a hearing or a Blue Ribbon Commission the only purpose is to bury the facts and cover the regulators collective a$$es. After having been on Broadband Reports some 8+ years now, I have become jaded. I can tell you when the hearing is done it will be, to quote William Shakespeare, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

optemino
join:2009-10-13
Patterson, CA

optemino

Member

entry

it's just canada -_-
Cloneman
join:2002-08-29
Montreal

Cloneman

Member

Re: entry

Maybe we should kick out Best Buy and Future Shop which are 0% Canadian owned.
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried

Premium Member

Cell Phones Aren't TV Stations

The U.S. also limits the percentage of foreign ownership. Tmobile US is not 100% owned by TMobile De, but I think the restriction is wrong.

Unlike broadcast media, there is no distinct culture to be preserved through the a mobile phone network. The issue isn't domestic content and programming. Yes, there are very small (almost de minimus) aspects, but any Canadian cell phone company not bent on self destruction will engineer a mobile home page with domestic news, hockey scores, etc, and offer the same in English and French. This is not like the attempts to protect Canadian television shows against the American productions which tend to flow north.

PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

PGHammer

Member

Re: Cell Phones Aren't TV Stations

What about the Canadian equivalent of the NSA? (Yes; there is one.)

Canadian wiretap laws are practically mirror images of those of the UK; the kerfuffle over *warrantless wiretapping* that threatens every so often to hamstring US jurisprudence isn't an issue in either the UK or Canada, as such wiretapping is fully legal (and without warrants) even if you're a citizen of the country. (Also, if you're an American in either Canada or the UK, the NSA can indeed tune their antennas on your convos. And *of course* the NSA has listening posts in Canada.)

Did Canada's spooks bend the ear (or the arm) of the CRTC?

Agent Smith2
join:2008-07-07
New York

Agent Smith2

Member

Just canada

Canada is good for the best foods there i like it.

But their technology as in broadband sucks so bad i feel bad for them.

•••