powerspec88 Premium Member join:2007-03-11 Lees Summit, MO |
I want one.But I don't think ATT offers it nation wide yet. Only get ~2 bars of EDGE out where I live, but I've had Sprint EV-DO REV. A for 3 years now :/ | |
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| verta join:2007-05-29 Tallahassee, FL |
verta
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:12 am
UMAI will pay extra for a UMA phone. I don't need another box with an antenna in my house. Lots of folks who would want this already have wifi. | |
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| | tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO |
tiger72
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:47 am
Re: UMAsaid by verta:I will pay extra for a UMA phone. I don't need another box with an antenna in my house. Lots of folks who would want this already have wifi. which is what makes femtocells so... pointless... T-Mobile has been using UMA for home coverage for years now. Oh, and they DONT make you buy their router or femotcell. Just get a UMA capable phone and use your existing wifi for better coverage. Pay $10/mo and you get unlimited calling too. Much better deal than Sprint/ATT/VZW are offering. | |
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Re: UMAI also like UMA because you don't need anything "extra". My parents have T-Mobile, but live in the sticks with poor coverage. I got them cheap UMA phones (without the $10/umlim) and works great. Now they have 5 "bars" at home and no extra monthly fee, and no equipment to buy (unless you don't have WiFi already). | |
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| baineschile2600 ways to live Premium Member join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI |
to powerspec88
Re: I want one.Its a moot technology already. By 2010, LTE and 5g coverage will be more dominant, and there will be no need for these | |
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| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 1:39 pm
Re: I want one.said by baineschile:Its a moot technology already. By 2010, LTE and 5g coverage will be more dominant, and there will be no need for these So you think that these technologies will eliminate coverage problems indoors in all areas. I think not. | |
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en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:11 am
For most, not worth it.To make this useful they have to:
1. Make ALL calls over microcell 'free', assuming you have a standard post-paid plan 2. Make the devices very cheap (~$50 or less) 3. Free with broadband + cell plan on boradband service. 4. Unlimited data while on microcell.
UMA is a more practical approach if all cellphones came with WiFi. | |
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1 recommendation |
jmt380
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:23 am
Re: For most, not worth it.I would go even further than that.
Since *MY* broadband connection is now alleviating strain on *THEIR* cell tower network, the device should be free and I should receive a credit on my monthly cell phone bill.
Why should I pay anything to fix a problem with their cell coverage? | |
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| | Mahalo join:2000-12-20 united state |
Mahalo
Member
2009-Nov-18 12:22 pm
Re: For most, not worth it.Yeah...its their problem!!! Why should I have to pay..this sucks...I expect to have 4 bars everywhere I go.
Sure, lets put cell towers everywhere. Do you have space in your backyard for one? Do you want it there? Do your neighbors want it there? Lets put them on every street corner (oh wait, there were payphones there at onetime and now they are gone).
Get a satellite phoneâ¦oh wait, its cloud outside I cant use it. I have tree in the line of sight. There is a building in the way. And yes, I have one and we have those problems
Its not perfect. | |
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| | | fcisler Premium Member join:2004-06-14 Riverhead, NY |
fcisler
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 2:07 pm
Re: For most, not worth it.Yes - I do want them to put a cell tower in my backyard. You do know they pay something ridiculous like 85% of your property taxes - at a minimum - and will usually give you some other financial incentive ($$) and I personally know someone who has Spring unlimited service - for life.
They can put as many towers in my backyard as they like!!! | |
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| | | | 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2009-Nov-18 2:56 pm
Re: For most, not worth it.Do you have an HOA? | |
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| | | | | fcisler Premium Member join:2004-06-14 Riverhead, NY |
fcisler
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 4:15 pm
Re: For most, not worth it.Absolutely not! Would have NEVER bought the house had I!
I know they'd never be interested in a cell tower in my yard, though. My friend a short distance away has a farm and they put one there. | |
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to fcisler
I know someone who has a US Cellular site on their property and gets $1000 a month to rent it to them! | |
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| 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX
1 recommendation |
to en102
said by en102:To make this useful they have to: 1. Make ALL calls over microcell 'free', assuming you have a standard post-paid plan 2. Make the devices very cheap (~$50 or less) 3. Free with broadband + cell plan on boradband service. 4. Unlimited data while on microcell. UMA is a more practical approach if all cellphones came with WiFi. I completely understand your point of view. However... you do realize that a carrier's radio network is only half of the network used to complete calls. Femto's only replicate that localized radio network portion. The calls still go back to the wireless carrier's switching network and are completed on their facilities. The same goes for the data as well. The data sessions go back to the carrier's switching network and are completed like a regular session on their cellular network. | |
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| | en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2009-Nov-18 5:57 pm
Re: For most, not worth it.Yes - I am aware.
However, think of it this way... VoIP calls are typically dirt cheap. Since I'm providing the most expensive part of the infrastructure (last mile), AND I have a monthly cell bill anyways (for those times that I'm using the radio network), I don't see the issue.
Skype to landline = $36/year. Why should microcell to landline be much more ?
Microcells aren't popular because they're essentially double dipping where coverage is not good, or doesn't exist (due to cost, location or otherwise). People don't 'need' them, and as they're cost prohibitive, I would switch carriers rather than use one. | |
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| | jjeffeoryjjeffeory join:2002-12-04 Bloomington, IN 1 edit |
to 93388818
and your point is? No offense, but I want to understand what you're getting at before I make a complete comment. | |
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| | | 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2009-Nov-19 12:18 am
Re: For most, not worth it.said by jjeffeory:and your point is? No offense, but I want to understand what you're getting at before I make a complete comment. My point is that 95% of the people out there complaining about a very small portion of the entire call string is also using their high speed bandwidth. | |
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| jjeffeoryjjeffeory join:2002-12-04 Bloomington, IN |
to en102
Agreed. Good comments. It really helps the wireless carrier the most. It keeps a customer for them and it takes strain of of their network. Why would they try and charge the customer for that? I can see, perhaps, charging the customer for the cost of the device. Otherwise, EVERYTHING a business does DOES NOT need to be a profit center. If they want to justify the "costs" they can look at it as helping out in other areas of their business where they are lacking such as coverage. | |
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r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:20 am
What is the point?There are very few areas where you cannot get a weak signal using an antenna and cell booster to ge a signal in your house. If you can't get a signal outside your house then you why would you even have a cell phone?
The only benefit to these internet femtocells is if you could use it anywhere you had an internet connection, especially traveling internationally. GPS locking these devices makes them worthless. | |
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Re: What is the point?gps spoofing however , makes it quite useful | |
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| | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX 1 edit |
r81984
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:28 am
Re: What is the point?As soon as I can get one for regular price I will hack it. Dynamic GPS spoofers are very expensive, I wonder if you can make a mini transmitter with a eeprom that will constantly broadcast a recording of a GPS signal.
Otherwise I am going to try and solder in a serial cable to the internal GPS device and then use one of those free or cheap GPS spoofer softwares that will send out fake NMEA data over a serial port. | |
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Re: What is the point?Actually they can run a code to inject a little range into the buffer unless you disable it , it just feeds the buffer a constant lat long you put in. With a small random swing don't want them looking to perfect | |
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| 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
to r81984
Depending on how the carrier deploys their product, GPS doesn't necessarily lock down the Femto to the user's home address.
It would merely secure it to an address that can be verified, like for E911 purposes.
YMMV however, that's all up to the carrier. | |
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| | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:45 am
Re: What is the point?The GPS locks it down to an area where they have an FCC license to broadcast. Thus if you take it out the USA it will not work. | |
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| | | 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:59 am
Re: What is the point?Agreed, that probably is going to be a factor.
Assuming you can get around that, I wonder how much of a factor long distance internet latency might play a role in Femto performance while in a data or voice session.
The carrier's IP gateway will still ostensibly be in the US somewhere. If someone were to take the Femto to Europe say, and somehow override the GPS, I wonder if latency would be an issue. | |
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| | | | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 12:34 pm
Re: What is the point?The audio for a GSM cell phone is only recorded at 13 kbit/s or less and latency is not really going to perceivable even on a satellite connection. Just in travel time alone to the farthest you could travel on earth your latency would be 101 ms + equipment latency + any satellite latency. No matter where you are the latency should be under 1 second so it will basically not matter. | |
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| | | | | 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2009-Nov-18 2:54 pm
Re: What is the point?Is that a 3G voice session bitrate? | |
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| | | | | | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 3:14 pm
Re: What is the point?said by 93388818:Is that a 3G voice session bitrate? UTMS codec is variable based on link conditions from 1.8 to 12.2 kbit/s | |
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to 93388818
Let's put it this way. I took a demo unit to South America , I needed to keep my Verizon phone active , It worked great in Brazil Venezuela and Colombia. Matter of fact , with a wimax modem , and a laptop I was able to fly fish and still be logged into a shell in a boat almost 1 mile into the flats in Santa Marta Colombia, while talking a noc tech through replacing some critical hardware on my vzw phone. 300 ms ping times to the pop where Verizon was grabbing my calls. I had 250 ms pings to miami vpn then between 50 and 100 to the verizon pop where they were taking the traffic. Not an issue , besides for a tech asking stupid questions about why both power supplies should be shut off to do a motherboard swap | |
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| | | | | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 3:20 pm
Re: What is the point?Getting your cell phone to work in another country is the best use of this device.
That is nice that verizon does not gps lock their devices like ATT does. | |
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Re: What is the point?No the verizon one is actually constrained by gps as well. just have to beat it | |
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| aaronwt Premium Member join:2004-11-07 Woodbridge, VA Asus RT-AX89
2 edits |
to r81984
said by r81984:There are very few areas where you cannot get a weak signal using an antenna and cell booster to ge a signal in your house. If you can't get a signal outside your house then you why would you even have a cell phone? The only benefit to these internet femtocells is if you could use it anywhere you had an internet connection, especially traveling internationally. GPS locking these devices makes them worthless. So I can use it in the car and other places. I am surrounded by hills and in a basement condo so my reception is poor to non exisitent depending on where I am in my condo. With the Femtocell, I was able to drop my landline and only use my cell phone at home since I now have excellent coverage around the entire building with my Verizon Femtocell. I have no problem with it using my minutes. I'm glad there is a solution that's easier than messing with a booster. And since I'm on FIOS I also have no bandwidth issues. Not that the 80kbs a phone call on the femtocell uses would even cause a problem. the cost of the Verizon femtocell was well worth it in my situation. And also allowed me to drop my landline saving me several hundred a year. | |
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| 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
to r81984
What if GPS lock isn't the only thing being used to ensure the Femto is operating in the correct geography? | |
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Re: What is the point?proxy ? vpn ? lots of ways around it.beating the gps is the hardest. | |
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| | | 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2009-Nov-19 3:22 pm
Re: What is the point?depends on what the other method is... | |
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to r81984
said by r81984:There are very few areas where you cannot get a weak signal using an antenna and cell booster to ge a signal in your house. If you can't get a signal outside your house then you why would you even have a cell phone? M2M calling with your friends. Some areas/cliques of people are always one particular carrier. In some areas, its ATT or Verizon. No PCSes. The ATT part might have been a 800 mhz Side A company ATT acquired in the 2000s and had a shit network under the old company, and under ATT to this day. In 1984 when 800 band came out, there were 2 carriers for each area. Still is like that to this day. Side B license was handed to the local Baby Bell/LEC, Side A was handed to an independent, Side A carriers were cheaper than the Side B LECs, which often meant Side As had worse coverage than the more cash laden Side B carriers. Corporate/branding wise, Side A/B means nothing anymore, engineering wise, it can mean alot. The engineering decisions done in the 1980s, can still be felt to this day. | |
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Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
Matt3
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:26 am
Verizon: No but AT&T: YesI can buy one in the local Verizon store, but I don't need one, I have great coverage in my house. When I had AT&T I would have jumped at the chance to buy one, because my home coverage sucked, but it's not available. | |
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AlexNYC
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:27 am
The value is in the signal strenght.I think the greatest value is in the possibility of having full bars signal strength where you had one or none before. Believe me for people in rural communities with various terrain /read: Rocky Mountains/ it would be a godsend. Now where's that damn AT&T femtocell? | |
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mots people wont pay for coverage i know its weird people would rather switch companies than buy something, personally I think the cell providers should use these as a save tool give it at a reduced cost / free to someone if there coverage at home sucks | |
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glinc join:2009-04-07 New York, NY |
glinc
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:34 am
MaybeMaybe if they offer some kind of discount off your bill every month by buying one of this devices it might work better. | |
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ck9 join:2004-06-12 Portland, OR
1 recommendation |
ck9
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:40 am
I have a femtocellI have a Verizon femtocell at home. I agree that it would be a better value if it didn't eat your minutes. However, since my cell coverage at home was crap, I had Vonage for about 2 years. Now that I bought a femtocell off Craigslist I canceled Vonage and save $30/month. Since I only paid $120 for the femtocell it paid for itself in 4 months.
I have wifi at home so I don't really care about the crappy data speed. So although it eats my minutes I will take the trade off of cutting my bills by $30/month. | |
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| tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO |
tiger72
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:51 am
Re: I have a femtocellsaid by ck9:I have a Verizon femtocell at home. I agree that it would be a better value if it didn't eat your minutes. However, since my cell coverage at home was crap, I had Vonage for about 2 years. Now that I bought a femtocell off Craigslist I canceled Vonage and save $30/month. Since I only paid $120 for the femtocell it paid for itself in 4 months. I have wifi at home so I don't really care about the crappy data speed. So although it eats my minutes I will take the trade off of cutting my bills by $30/month. Don't forget to take into account that when you used Vonage, it didn't count against your VZW minutes. Now those calls are using your minutes. For some people, that might bump them up to a higher rate plan, which diminishes the possible savings. | |
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| | ck9 join:2004-06-12 Portland, OR |
ck9
Member
2009-Nov-19 12:27 pm
Re: I have a femtocellsaid by tiger72:said by ck9:I have a Verizon femtocell at home. I agree that it would be a better value if it didn't eat your minutes. However, since my cell coverage at home was crap, I had Vonage for about 2 years. Now that I bought a femtocell off Craigslist I canceled Vonage and save $30/month. Since I only paid $120 for the femtocell it paid for itself in 4 months. I have wifi at home so I don't really care about the crappy data speed. So although it eats my minutes I will take the trade off of cutting my bills by $30/month. Don't forget to take into account that when you used Vonage, it didn't count against your VZW minutes. Now those calls are using your minutes. For some people, that might bump them up to a higher rate plan, which diminishes the possible savings. Very true. However, I did take that into account before ditching Vonage. I have been monitoring my minutes closely for the past 4 months and have not found it necessary to upgrade my cell plan. If I did I believe it would be $20 more so I'd be saving only $10/month. Most of my calls are to/from Verizon cell phones which is probably why I don't go over my plan minutes. | |
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93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:44 am
I just moved, and would like one...I just moved from a home that had great (5 bars) 3G coverage to one that switches between 3G and edge network.
I live out in the country now, on the outskirts of the DFW Metroplex. Spotty cell coverage was a risk I took when I moved out here. I knew that going in.
With my family's particular cell usage patterns, I would definitely get a Femto if one was available to me. I have over 5000 rollover minutes, so I don't care if the calls I make come off my plan.
If I had good 3G coverage in my home, those minutes would come off my plan anyway, so I personally don't see the difference. | |
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wdoa join:2001-10-16 Spencer, MA |
wdoa
Member
2009-Nov-18 11:48 am
T-Mobile is dumping their UMAT-Mobile is now phasing out UMA. It's not offered any longer with any of their new plans. I suspect going forward newer phone models from T-Mobile will not be equipped with UMA. I've used it for a couple years and it's great. Helps fill the many, many, many holes in T-Mobiles network (like anywhere that is more than a mile from a major highway). It also works great in buildings that have wifi but are also not cell reception friendly. Big thumbs down to T-Mobile for pulling the plug on UMA. | |
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| tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO |
tiger72
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 11:54 am
Re: T-Mobile is dumping their UMAsaid by wdoa:T-Mobile is now phasing out UMA. It's not offered any longer with any of their new plans. I suspect going forward newer phone models from T-Mobile will not be equipped with UMA. I've used it for a couple years and it's great. Helps fill the many, many, many holes in T-Mobiles network (like anywhere that is more than a mile from a major highway). It also works great in buildings that have wifi but are also not cell reception friendly. Big thumbs down to T-Mobile for pulling the plug on UMA. no offense, but how does UMA help in rural areas off of highways? At least where I travel between Missouri, Colorado, and Texas, I find it very difficult to find open wifi for UMA calls in rural areas. Not that it's really necessary. It's 100x easier to simply roam. | |
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| MrMasterRum Connoisseur Premium Member join:2000-12-16 St Thomas, VI |
to wdoa
said by wdoa:T-Mobile is now phasing out UMA. It's not offered any longer with any of their new plans. I suspect going forward newer phone models from T-Mobile will not be equipped with UMA. I've used it for a couple years and it's great. Helps fill the many, many, many holes in T-Mobiles network (like anywhere that is more than a mile from a major highway). It also works great in buildings that have wifi but are also not cell reception friendly. Big thumbs down to T-Mobile for pulling the plug on UMA. That's not true at all. UMA is on the new Bold 9700. Why did you think they were phasing it out? | |
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chlenEthically Challenged Premium Member join:2001-01-16 Saratoga, NY |
chlen
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 12:29 pm
sprintMy apartment is a dead zone for all service regardless of provider. It is an old brick townhouse in between taller old brick townhouses.
Sprint refunded the $100 it cost for the Airave and does not charge me for service. My house has 5 bars all the time now. | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 1:41 pm
Re: sprintsaid by chlen:My apartment is a dead zone for all service regardless of provider. It is an old brick townhouse in between taller old brick townhouses. Sprint refunded the $100 it cost for the Airave and does not charge me for service. My house has 5 bars all the time now. Same here. The Airave works well and I got the credit too. | |
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SLD Premium Member join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA |
SLD
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 1:57 pm
ServersAre these classified as servers from an ISPs TOS? Don't other cell users get to make calls on your broadband connection? | |
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jay_rm
Member
2009-Nov-18 2:00 pm
no-no-no !Glad to see people aren't falling for this half-ass attempt by providers to unload over-capacity on to OUR internet accounts !
Fight The Power - no femto-widgets without user compensation ! | |
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Ignorance
Anon
2009-Nov-18 2:33 pm
CostFor someone who has this issue it's a matter of value.
This system costs much less and works better than the repeaters on the market.
This is easily ranted on by people who haven't lived with the issue of no service. | |
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not sure about that I know several people who have switched companies because of bad coverage in there house only to find that the other company had bad coverage somewhere else. My friend Bob stitched from Verizon because he had spotty coverage at home. He switched to T-Mobile he payed a $100 termination fee and bought a BB curve (he would have gotten for free at Verizon with his new every 2) paid the activations fees at T-mobile and gave up his 19% monthly employer discount. His service with T-Mobile doesn't work at his office in Burnsville or at his cabin in northern Minnesota.
All because he would not pay $200 for a femtocell for his house, Its strange and I see it alot, I guess I don't understand people | |
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Re: not sure about thatThen he should do the T-Mobile UMA - the Curve offers it - I've used it. I like it! | |
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NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO |
NOCMan
Premium Member
2009-Nov-18 4:14 pm
They're marketed completely wrongCompanies generally charge you for minutes still, or charge a monthly fee even after charging 199 for the device.
Some also have arbitrary conditions put on them. Verizon only lets you use them in a service area, and/or the must be near a window for a GPS receiver to talk to it etc. | |
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J3ff2
Anon
2009-Nov-18 8:40 pm
You guys who are against this are so simple/closed minded.First - you assume people have a limited amount of minutes.
Second - you assume that people actually care if the FEM uses their bandwidth.
So let me introduce ME.
I have two of these, on sprint.
One at work, one at home.
Sprint sent me BOTH of them for free, and also charges me 10 dollars a month minus a 10 dollar credit.
I also have 1000 peak mins with nights starting at 6. For people like me, this device is great!!!
NO cell company works at my work.......at my desk. My boss and co workers and head of the place are all jealous that I can use my cell all day at work.
At home sprint service was ok, but sometimes it would drop.
Again, I don't care how much bandwidth it uses, I just care that I have full bars, everywhere, in my house and at my work.
It's a dream come true. Stop being so up tight haters!! | |
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Re: You guys who are against this are so simple/closed minded.j3ff.
you're a lucky guy.
my zip is not in the sprint realm.
i got t-mo UMA and they don't have an android UMA device yet.
sprint does and i'm jealous. | |
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| m0unds join:2003-02-17 Albuquerque, NM |
to J3ff2
J3ff2 - I'm with you on this. Sprint also gave me an Airave for home use for free with the monthly service cost waived. for most consumers w/residential broadband, the amount of bandwidth the device uses (~40kbit bidirectional for a single call) is a drop in the bucket.
(i don't need one in my office because we've got sprint equipment on-site and i have native EVDO everywhere in the building) | |
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