 | | Government is as corrupt as they want to be. This is only 1 incident that we know about. How many privacy violations are there each week in this wonderful country of ours? | |
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 |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2
 ·Bright House
| Re: Government is as corrupt as they want to be. If this might happen to lead back to the NSA cloning the bulk of our internet traffic, the present administration won't touch it.
If President O'Bama can keep the NSA/Telco marriage safe then he'll likely raise a huge indignant fuss over it, via the Justice Dept.
said by jjeffeory:This is only 1 incident that we know about. How many privacy violations are there each week in this wonderful country of ours? Countless thousands thanks to BigTELCOS/NSA/BUSH/O'BAMA.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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|  camaro92Question everythingPremium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
·Comcast
| Actually there have been a few more that have broke in the news in the last few years, don't have any direct links but it happens.But remember this is for our "safety" to get the bad guys,look at great intel they had on the guy who strapped a bomb to his crotch. | |
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| | deadzonedPremium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA | Re: Government is as corrupt as they want to be. Yeah right... the more data the better in your opinion huh?
The undewear bomber guy is a perfect example of why this doesn't work. Because of the sheer amount of data they have to try and sift through, they were not able to piece together critical information to stop this guy. | |
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| | | | | Re: Government is as corrupt as they want to be. said by deadzoned:Yeah right... the more data the better in your opinion huh? 2000 phone records isn't exactly a data dump. Sounds like they had something (or someone) specific in mind. My initial reaction is there's probably a whole lot we're not being told and probably never will be.
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The goggles! They do nothing! - McBain | |
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| |  NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | said by camaro92:But remember this is for our "safety" to get the bad guys,look at great intel they had on the guy who strapped a bomb to his crotch. The above example just proves that all the data in the world can't help if one doesn't have the intelligence to piece it together.
Or if the administration knows that something is going to happen, yet lets it happen anyway to provide justification for expansion of agency powers... (You know, like the virtual strip search machine that TSA is starting to play with?)
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. | |
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|  ggma1126GGMA1126Premium
join:2008-08-30
Claymont, DE | and people are surprised by this article - the fbi has been doing stuff like this for years | |
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| | | So, what's the big deal? I listen in on all my husband's telephone conversations all the time.  | |
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| | | | Re: Government is as corrupt as they want to be. said by Flintstone:So, what's the big deal? I listen in on all my husband's telephone conversations all the time. Kind of unsecured of yourself and his faithful devotion love to you?? EH??  | |
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| | | | | Re: Government is as corrupt as they want to be. said by myluvnttl78:said by Flintstone:So, what's the big deal? I listen in on all my husband's telephone conversations all the time. Kind of unsecured of yourself and his faithful devotion love to you?? EH?? Maybe a tad insecure but unsecured, NEVER!  | |
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|  Dude111An Awesome DudePremium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:11
1 edit | quote:
This is only 1 incident that we know about. How many privacy violations are there each week in this wonderful country of ours?
More than you wanna know trust me! | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Callcentric
| What's with the paranoia anyway?
Considering how hard it is to actually catch terrorist, why would anyone in their right mind what to make it even harder for the authorities?
I laugh when people mention that "this country's freedom's are being taken away", for two reasons. First of all, most other first world countries that actually have a higher standard of living to that of our own, have no issue or distrust in their government doing their Job. I know, it's an amazing concept for us Americans, as many seem to assume the government is our enemy. Well quite moronic actually.
Second of all, I have to laugh because on one hand people claim the government is not doing enough, like preventing the guy on the delta flight. Yet on the other hand, these same morons claim they are intruding our liberties.
The one of many things that have screwed up this country is the fixation with liberties, being PC and the Monday morning quarterback. Every idiot with zero actual knowledge on a topic or issue, has to have an idiotic opinion. This tendency to speak from the you know where, is why 99.9% of the world loathes it when we open our mouths. | |
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| |  ep
@verizon.net
1 edit
approval from:
RvLeshrac 
| Re: Government is as corrupt as they want to be. And why make it harder to catch regular every day criminals? Cops should just be allowed to search anybody, anytime and stop any vehicle anywhere any time. Who cares about the constituion. My right to avoid the .0000001% of death or injury from a terrorist attack means I should let the gov't do what ever it wants.
Lets let the fear of terrorism just dictate what our rights and rules should be. The terrorists have won then -- haven't they? | |
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| |  menumorutBE an American.
join:2005-07-04
Queens Village, NY
1 edit | said by Telco:I laugh when people mention that "this country's freedom's are being taken away", for two reasons. First of all, most other first world countries that actually have a higher standard of living to that of our own, have no issue or distrust in their government doing their Job. I know, it's an amazing concept for us Americans, as many seem to assume the government is our enemy. Well quite moronic actually. Unless one have lived in these so called higher standard of living countries and talked to these government agents he has no idea what his are asking for.
said by Telco:....have no issue or distrust in their government doing their Job. Citizens of these places have no idea of what civil liberties or personal property mean and the most shocking part is that in some of these places these very democratic governments can murder you and call it an accident.
The sad news is that president Obama is doing a pretty good job downgrading and equalizing US to all these first world countries.
Please do chime in when the average monthly salary down-reaches $900 a month.
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One can only speak in tongs so many times before landing on a perfectly working spell that would turn anyone in to a frog. | |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Williamstown, NJ
kudos:5 |  All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism
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| Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bright House
| Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by Linklist:And that is OK by me. Get the data first and then worry about paperwork. I suspect you of something nefarious. If I get a cop to agree with me, may I have your SSN#, Bank Acct#'s, Credit/Criminal Histories and complete family dossiers?
Thanks!
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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| |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism Just about any one with internet access, a credit card, and the right web site can get all of that, and more for about $75....
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Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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| | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bright House
| Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by N3OGH:Just about any one with internet access, a credit card, and the right web site can get all of that, and more for about $75.... At the moment, I'm not sure you could provide me TK's real name, street address and phone # (and I don't want you to be able to). It'd be kind of tough to get the rest of it without any of that.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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| | | |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
1 edit | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism . | |
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| | | |  badtripI heart the East BayPremium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA | said by Noah Vail:At the moment, I'm not sure you could provide me TK's real name, street address and phone # (and I don't want you to be able to). It'd be kind of tough to get the rest of it without any of that. NV You'd be surprised how easy it would to put together a relatively small set of individuals that could be potential candidates. Then all a person would have to do is some brute force data mining to get whatever data they want.
Many of us have posted enough seemingly innocuous personal data on these forums alone to facilitate such a search.
Privacy is an illusion. | |
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| | | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bright House
| Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by badtrip:Many of us have posted enough seemingly innocuous personal data on these forums alone to facilitate such a search. Not necessarily. I've hunted and been hunted enough times that I'm pretty conscious of everything I post. As for my paper trail, I tend to be a bit unconventional.
said by badtrip:Privacy is an illusion. I'm not really a privacy freak. I'm more of a control freak. I have a VoIP phone that less than 10 people have. However my Cell Phone is listed and openly available.
What I crave is a level playing field. You can have all my dirty little secrets as long as I can have yours. The NSA can know everything about me as long as I have a roster of their employees w/ all their personal information.
Interestingly enough I have lots of personal information about other people. I'd rather not, but I do. Some of it comes from people you've heard of.
In the process of helping people manage their data, I see stuff every day. I also manage networks and monitor traffic.
If there is anything I have learned about other people's personal information, it's all really dull. Even if it's interesting, it's dull. For the most part, I don't want to know anything about anybody that they haven't volunteered.
Because of that, I abhor gossip. I shut everybody down - rudely if necessary - if they begin to share someone's personal info, that I'm not entitled to hear.
Well, I enjoyed aimlessly rambling that far off topic.
Now go do something useful with my data and give me a call.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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4 edits | Yes this is true, but the gov't isn't supposed to have those kind of powers. They're supposed to buy the information just like everyone else! That's why ChoicePoint corporation and others are around. 8-)
And ChoicePoint is know for being accurate . Just ask a woman who they confused with a felon because of a clerical error. It only cost her a new job and a year or two of her life and her credit, etc...
»www.wired.com/politics/security/···03/66983 | |
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| | | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism I'm not saying the govt. is supposed to have those powers.
My point being, anyone who thinks they have any privacy in this world any more is living an illusion.
I'm not condoning it, I'm not supporting it, I'm not saying it's right.
I'm just saying....
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Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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| | | | | | | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism ...and I agree. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be upset! It doesn't mean that we shouldn't be outraged. It doesn't me we shouldn't fight and complain and act ( in a positive and legal way, of course.)!
We shouldn't tolerate this behavior. | |
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| | | | | |  bentand IngaPremium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO
·Comcast
| Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by jjeffeory:...and I agree. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be upset! It doesn't mean that we shouldn't be outraged. It doesn't me we shouldn't fight and complain and act ( in a positive and legal way, of course.)! We shouldn't tolerate this behavior. But yet we keep voting Republicans and Democrats into power as if they had changed their ways.
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Greedy Old Pigs v. The Donkey Show | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by bent:But yet we keep voting Republicans and Democrats into power as if they had changed their ways. There's no other realistic choice. The way we have general elections without run-offs, the fear of "wasting your vote" (Ex. voting for Perot, and helping Clinton win in '92) will prevent third parties from being anything more than pamphleteers on the sidelines.
I wish that could be improved, if only to demonstrate that governing such a large country, with so many non-homogenous interests, facing complex issues that can't be dismissed with quaint slogans (like "Manifest Destiny" to steal the land of Native Americans) wouldn't be much different under any political party.
It would at least shut people up about how much better things would be if...
Mark | |
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| | | | | | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by amigo_boy:said by bent:But yet we keep voting Republicans and Democrats into power as if they had changed their ways. There's no other realistic choice. The way we have general elections without run-offs, the fear of "wasting your vote" (Ex. voting for Perot, and helping Clinton win in '92) will prevent third parties from being anything more than pamphleteers on the sidelines. I wish that could be improved, if only to demonstrate that governing such a large country, with so many non-homogenous interests, facing complex issues that can't be dismissed with quaint slogans (like "Manifest Destiny" to steal the land of Native Americans) wouldn't be much different under any political party. It would at least shut people up about how much better things would be if... Mark ...If only we followed the constitution and left much more power to the states to govern themselves instead of mandating everything, the points you raise could at least be mitigated by freedom of choice. At least for now businesses and citizens can, for example, choose to move away from California's high tax rates to an income-tax-free state like Texas. I wish there were more issues that were settled on a state level such that those who disagree or want something different can move to a better place of their choosing while still being able to retain their citizenship with this country.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | | | | | | bentand IngaPremium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by tiger72:said by amigo_boy:said by bent:But yet we keep voting Republicans and Democrats into power as if they had changed their ways. There's no other realistic choice. The way we have general elections without run-offs, the fear of "wasting your vote" (Ex. voting for Perot, and helping Clinton win in '92) will prevent third parties from being anything more than pamphleteers on the sidelines. I wish that could be improved, if only to demonstrate that governing such a large country, with so many non-homogenous interests, facing complex issues that can't be dismissed with quaint slogans (like "Manifest Destiny" to steal the land of Native Americans) wouldn't be much different under any political party. It would at least shut people up about how much better things would be if... Mark ...If only we followed the constitution and left much more power to the states to govern themselves instead of mandating everything, the points you raise could at least be mitigated by freedom of choice. At least for now businesses and citizens can, for example, choose to move away from California's high tax rates to an income-tax-free state like Texas. I wish there were more issues that were settled on a state level such that those who disagree or want something different can move to a better place of their choosing while still being able to retain their citizenship with this country. The real easy solution to that is to invert the Federal and State Income Taxes. Like that will ever happen. When have people with power ever willingly given up that power? Why am I sending such a huge percentage of my income to Washington so that some douchebags there can decide how to spend it? I'd rather the douchebags right here in Denver decide how to spend it.
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Greedy Old Pigs v. The Donkey Show | |
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approval from:
Linklist
| Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism ...if we had a government that adhered to the one moral purpse of government, which is to PROTECT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. But no.. we have too many whiners who want handouts, want medical care for free from crib to crypt, want to punish competitors that are better at making products than they are, etc. Sickening... | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | said by tiger72:...If only we followed the constitution and left much more power to the states to govern themselves States rights were never a reality. The founding generation abandoned that principle when it threw off the Articles of Confederation just 12 years after the Revolution. A relative libertarian utopia compared to the powerful, centralized federal government they constituted in 1789-1791.
Every generation since as followed that example. A state enslaves its population, or prohibits freedom of the press, and it's another loss of "states rights." A company in one state pollutes the air (affecting other states), another loss of "states rights."
"Go back to states' rights" is Ron Paul's mantra. But, it's a unrealistically simplistic response to complicated issues which would not disappear just because they're devolved into 50 little ones. It ignores how we got to where we are today. It's just a typical libertarian sleight-of-hand. Talking past issues with simplistic jargon.
Mark | |
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| | | | | | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | A ton of Democrats voted for Perot too, and came back to Clinton in 94. | |
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1 edit | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by KrK:A ton of Democrats voted for Perot too, and came back to Clinton in 94. No problem for them. It was Rs who moaned about other Rs "voting for Clinton" by voting for Perot.
Since then, the event is often used by Rs to whip a little fear into the disillusioned. (As Nader is used to whip Ds into shape regarding 2004's close call involving hanging chad, etc.).
There's no way to vote your conscience without run-off elections (or, tier-rank ballots which 2/3 of the population wouldn't comprehend anyway).
I don't think it would make a difference. If the "Tea Party" got into office, they'd last about 2 years like the "Republican Revolution" of '94.
If Greens (or Libertarians) got into office, they'd have the same abrupt encounter with reality.
It seems to be a natural human trait to blame the two-party system for everything. Or, dismiss every disagreeable action to "unconstitutionality." But, it always goes back to the same thing. Few people changing what they can change (preferring World of Warcraft). Or, trying to change things and realizing... it's not as bad as they thought it was. It's just the nature of a complicated world where people don't have the homogenous values and goals they did in Ward Cleaver's day.
Mark | |
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1 edit | We?
All you guys do! 
I keep saying the two party system is broken. People need to wake up and decide they want some real "change" and then make it happen. | |
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| | | | | | | | Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN
3 edits | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism Wiki Search RON PAUL
oops, now I'm on the terrorist watch list for supporting a pure constitutional candidate now Dr. Ron Paul
the new massive NSA data center in Utah can possibly act like google and start archiving everything it can on the net.
they said with the building size at 1.5 million square feet, and being stationed next to a Military base and power plant, and being able to supposedly store something like 16 yottabytes ?!?
I'd have to say that they are planning to keep that secure and running for a very very long time.
--the more ya know-- lol
by the way, i think yotta bytes may be possible, after reading this article back in 2006 about a scientist who invented 50 terrabyte flash memory using insect DNA protein to store it.
»www.getusb.info/50-terabyte-flas···protein/ | |
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| tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | I think you're guilty of murder.
What's your address? | |
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| Reviews:
·Cox HSI
| said by Linklist:And that is OK by me. Get the data first and then worry about paperwork. I don't understand this mentality at all. A law enforcement agency gets caught breaking the law, not one time or two times, but thousands of times, and you don't have the least bit of concern or doubt about their ethics or actions? That's right up there with implicitly trusting a known pathological liar and putting the inmates in charge of the asylum.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism "think of the children" | |
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| | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | said by BillRoland:said by Linklist:And that is OK by me. Get the data first and then worry about paperwork. I don't understand this mentality at all. A law enforcement agency gets caught breaking the law, not one time or two times, but thousands of times, and you don't have the least bit of concern or doubt about their ethics or actions? That's right up there with implicitly trusting a known pathological liar and putting the inmates in charge of the asylum. Here's the funny part - he supports an executive branch with limitless powers, and calls a legislature "statist". In other words, he wants the president to actually be a King, and thus agencies under the King's purview (including the FBI, NSA, etc) are held to the same laws as any other king would be: NONE.
Of course, the greatest irony, is while our good friend TKJunkMail feels that because the law wasn't "convenient" for the FBI, it should be flaunted, his position on copyright law is that everyone should obey it or change it - period.
Interesting.
If the government ignores a law - "That is ok by me. Get the data first".
If a private citizen ignores a law "DON'T TOUCH THAT DATA!!! IT'S PROTECTED!"
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| |  IT GuyOw, My BallsPremium
join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM | I think the root of the problem lies with people that have the mindset of authority as truth, rather than truth as authority. This probably goes without saying and to me at least, is the major reason for plight in this world.
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Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. | |
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| | | said by Linklist:And that is OK by me. Get the data first and then worry about paperwork. Until you are the subject under investigation. | |
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| CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO | Could someone please tell me when the Republican party was taken over by the freaking Communist Party of the Soviet Union?
Let's all repeat after TKJunkMail, "I love the government, they always look out for my best interests, if they're spying on someone it's because they must be bad!"
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"Religion allows people who would otherwise be arguing about whether the Death Star could beat a Borg Cube to have a place of respect within society." | |
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| | bentand IngaPremium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by Corydon:Could someone please tell me when the Republican party was taken over by the freaking Communist Party of the Soviet Union? Let's all repeat after TKJunkMail, "I love the government, they always look out for my best interests, if they're spying on someone it's because they must be bad!" You know your country is seriously hosed when a growing portion of the populace fears the government more than they do the "enemy." I'm way more afraid of Jackboot Joey than I am of Jihad Johnny.
--edit for typo
Greedy Old Pigs v. The Donkey Show | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Callcentric
| Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism People abroad certainly don't label us stupid yanks for unwarranted reasons. What sort of idiots distrust the government they vote in? Furthermore, tell everyone how awesome our system of government is. I have traveled and lived all over the world. The US is the only first world country where the people actually distrust their own government.
Another favorite of mine is that our government is our enemy, yet corporations are looking out for our interest. | |
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1 edit | excellent point. since the guys doing this seem to be breaking this law called the constitution, let's throw them in jail and worry about the paperwork later. Along with them we should also throw in jail their suporters, as TK is, and worry about the paperwork later. | |
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1 edit | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by WernerSchutz:excellent point. since the guys doing this seem to be breaking this law called the constitution, let's throw them in jail and worry about the paperwork later. Along with them we should also throw in jail their suporters, as TK is, and worry about the paperwork later. This is non-news, and an example of DSLR's "blogging" bias.
The events described occurred before the Patriot Act was expanded in 2006 to accommodate the President's claimed needs. During the time which the President claimed 18 USC 2511 as the basis for his surveillance activities. The law which was used as a basis for so-called immunity (which only covered the period from 9/11 and passage of the Patriot Act.).
This is just regurgitating what was already known to animate the pitchforking mob.
As much as you don't trust the government, be wary of the motives of those who animate you.
Mark | |
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1 edit | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism And it was illegal then, just as it should be now regardless of what the industry purchased and our president did to try to cover their backsides.
There were laws in place they were to follow that granted them the ability to do what they did with oversight (start the tap and get a warrant within X time). This is the same oversight that is incorporated into the very foundation of our constitution (3 branches) to help prevent corruption and power distortion. They ignored that law and then passed another one saying it was OK to ignore that law. Sorry that distortion of power does not fly regardless of what you nutz think. If what they did was legal than there was no basis on creating another law to shield the industry from invading the privacy of millions of people. The shear fact they had to pass another law shows they were in the wrong and know they were in the wrong. | |
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| | | | | | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by Skippy25:There were laws in place they were to follow that granted them the ability to do what they did with oversight ... 1. The Executive Branch has an inherent power to conduct surveillance. The branches of government being co-equal, the Legislative Branch cannot legislate away that power. It can only create a framework for the Executive Branch to operate within for foreseen needs.
2. 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) is a recognition of that inherent Executive power, and Congress's recognition of it (outside Congress's framework). Furthermore, the Congressional debates over FISA show that Congress feared that it could legislate too far, and be found unconstitutional. Leading to this clause of 2511.
3. The recent Congress reaffirmed this intent when it used 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) as the basis for so-called "immunity."
4. The recent Congress reaffirmed the President's claim that its framework didn't accommodate new, unforeseen needs when it revised FISA with the Patriot Act.
That's how Constitutional government works. All I hear is a bunch of misinformed people (who read imbalanced blogs), complaining about how the government should follow a constitution that doesn't exist. And, they're too lazy to amend the Constitution to be what they say it should be.
Mark | |
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| | | | | | | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism I think you're confusing a constitutional government with a monarchy. You must be one of John Yoo's best students. | |
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| | | It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission, especially when there are no consequences... | |
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|  woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | Problem is that they Never did the paperwork.....Peace
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| | LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Williamstown, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by woody7:Problem is that they Never did the paperwork.....Peace »www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···982.html
FBI officials issued approvals after the fact to justify their actions.
The after-the-fact approvals were a "good-hearted but not well-thought-out" solution to put phone carriers at ease, she said. In true emergencies, Caproni said, agents always had the legal right to get phone records, and lawyers have now concluded there was no need for the after-the-fact approval process.
The searches involved only records of calls and not the content of the calls.
FBI managers signed 11 "blanket" national security letters addressing past searches, officials told The Post.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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| NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | You forgot to use the sarcasm tags on your post... 
While not handcuffing our law enforcement agencies in going after terrorists needs to be a priority, ensuring that our law enforcement agencies obey the law in doing so must be a higher one. Unbiased judges like to throw out evidence obtained illegally, and sometimes even punish those law enforcement officers who wantonly broke the law in getting it... and rightfully so.
With stories like these popping up, it's no wonder why our society has lost pretty much all trust in government.
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. | |
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|  LightSPremium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX | TK this is probably one of the most awful things you've ever posted. You should probably evacuate this country and move somewhere else, somewhere that they think like you. | |
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| | LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Williamstown, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: All the disputed requests for anti-terrorism said by LightS:TK this is probably one of the most awful things you've ever posted. You should probably evacuate this country and move somewhere else, somewhere that they think like you. They think like I do in the White House(past and present) and at the FBI and the NSA and the CIA, etc, etc. Want to help me get in the White House?
P.S.>> And if you think this is the most awful thing I have posted(i.e. by BBR's slant on things), then you haven't been paying attention.
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by Linklist:And that is OK by me. Get the data first and then worry about paperwork. Take that to the logical conclusion: Kick in your door, shoot you dead, then sort out the "evidence" later.
Of course, if they make a mistake, or abuse occurs, they can always plant evidence or cover it up completely.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | said by Linklist:And that is OK by me. Get the data first and then worry about paperwork. Or "shoot first and ask questions later?" | |
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| | Jailtime But will any of the people who committed the illegal activity be jailed? Along with those that ordered the crime to be committed.
Not a chance in hell.
If a citizen commits the same crime? Instant jail.
If a Fed commits the crime? A written note of apology. Otherwise where is the big boys jail for them as well.
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Consumer Rights is more than just a suggestion. | |
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| bentand IngaPremium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Jailtime said by zalternate:But will any of the people who committed the illegal activity be jailed? Along with those that ordered the crime to be committed. Not a chance in hell. If a citizen commits the same crime? Instant jail. If a Fed commits the crime? A written note of apology. Otherwise where is the big boys jail for them as well. Know what the life expectancy for a FBI agent in the Federal Pen is? Not very damn long.
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Greedy Old Pigs v. The Donkey Show | |
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| | NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | Re: Jailtime Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
I guess that's all the more incentive for them to not break the law then... If my 6 month jail time could possibly become a "life sentence" because of my FBI status, I think I'd darn well make sure I obeyed every law on the books at all times-- even the ones that contradict each other...
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To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. | |
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 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | RE J Edgar Hoover must be turning over in his grave right now...NOT. | |
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| camaro92Question everythingPremium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA | Re: RE He has one large hard on | |
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| |  roc5955Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY | Re: RE And in woman's clothing. | |
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| | How Come I am Not Surprised The gov can do whatever they want too. They do something knowing it's wrong and just shrug their shoulders knowing they can do it and then caught later. Doesn't matted because they already have what they wanted. Phone records, IM messages, etc... What good is a warrant? | |
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1 edit | would you like to see some proof of there activiites they wanted to get some wannabe hacker team together and when they couldn't hack my server they dossed it, until my edmonton isp upped my bandwidth of course i could not afford the 2000 a month bill.....
and neat more is the usa military grabbing brutus the brute force cracking utility
seems its a big hit with uncle sam
my o my where you gonna get it now if we all take it way form you better burn a copy.......
but remember copyright in usa is 95 years plus life a author and my bet is author is still alive | |
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| | I didn't almost fall out of my chair! Oh wow... NO ONE could have predicted THIS would happen!!! This the total f---ing surprise of the century!
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| | bentand IngaPremium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: I didn't almost fall out of my chair! said by LightS:I know, right? Maybe the corporate overlords and industrial superpowers that run this country from the sidelines should take a look at this forum. Sad thing is, there's nothing we can do about any of it.  From the sidelines? From the front lines. It's no secret that corporate lobbyists pull the strings in Washington. Who has the louder voice? The paid puppeteer in his limo or the small businessman in Podunk, CO?
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Greedy Old Pigs v. The Donkey Show | |
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1 edit | Re: I didn't almost fall out of my chair! said by bent:From the sidelines? From the front lines. It's no secret that corporate lobbyists pull the strings in Washington. Who has the louder voice? The paid puppeteer in his limo or the small businessman in Podunk, CO? That's an unintended consequence of the hastily ratified 14th Amendment in 1866-1868.
Here's the real irony. After the Civil War, southern states began re-instituting slavery through laws prohibiting blacks from owning weapons, gathering in groups, voting, etc. The Feds tried to stop this using Civil Rights Acts, which were repeatedly ruled unconstitutional (because the Bill of Rights only applied to Congressional infringement, and the Federal government had no power to intervene in a state's infringement of its own citizens).
The Feds hastily ratified the 14th Amendment to give themselves jurisdiction. It was intended to 1) make all persons citizens of both their state and the Federal government. And, 2) extend the first eight Bills of Right (called privileges and immunities) to state or private infringement.
What happened? The Supreme Court immediately ruled that the 14th Amendment didn't do that. The era of Reconstruction was over.
It wasn't until the early 1920s that the Supreme Court heard a case involving the state of Minnesota banning subversive newspapers, and suddenly found that the 14th Amendment was supposed to extend the BoR against state infringement.
At that point, the SC undertook a campaign called "selective incorporation." Over the following 80 years it selectively incorporated individual clauses of the BoR into the 14th Amendment.
So, from 1868 until 1920, the clear intent of the 14th Amendment was ignored. But, during that time the Supreme Court used the 14th Amendment to extend the BoR to corporations! Something the drafters never intended!
Corporations are legal "persons" created by state legislatures to stand as the "fall guy" if officers and investors make poor choices. A fictional person treated legally like you or me.
The Supreme Court said the 14th amendment extended the BoR to those "persons." They have same freedom of speech, association and privacy as real, naturally born people.
Nobody even intended that.
So, today the 14th Amendment is what gives corporations such tremendous political influence. And, it's what makes us unique among other nations, where any alien can have a baby here and immediately be related to a US citizen (when the drafters of the 14th didn't intend that either). And, we got all this from the Supreme Court who sat around for 60 years ignoring the clear intent of the drafters of the 14th!
The amazing thing is, we do nothing about it. People are whizzing themselves about 2000 abuses during a 6-year period during which the laws didn't accommodate the government's surveillance needs. And, doing nothing to correct the true abuses which have arisen from the 14th Amendment.
Mark | |
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geonaplolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | welcome to hell this stuff will never end, either bush obama or anyone else will have the power to end this struggle between idiots with power and the presidency. nobody can make a move because we've ultimately given power of everything to the alphabet boys to "protect" us. so if obama, bush or anyone else puts a stop to this, if something even so simple gets through, those who had a hand in stopping this will get into deep shit, consider privacy eradicated like a pest with no immunity to the medicine, shit is changing every day thanks to 9/11, with all the pro's that have happened for the rich, powerful and government.. only the stupid would believe that 9/11 was what was said it was. it's just how the world works, the big chunk of people need to be controlled and you'll never find anything change since the word terrorism is brought up 500 times a day, so while americans sit there and wait for the next terrorist attack after having given up all their rights, a drunk driver kills someone every (insert your measurement count here) and we give up EVERYTHING to track a potential "terrorist" | |
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1 edit | People like TK... People like TK, who think it's A-OK for the govt. to run roughshod all over our hard fought and won constitutional protections ARE the problem!
AND...I present another thing for you. The USA is SUPPOSED to be THE beacon of freedom that all other countries aspire to! That's what WE tell the people of other countries-and then WE turn around and screw OUR OWN CITIZENS this way? How can other countries possibly believe the rhetoric we spew when we don't even make it apply to US? How can THEY trust us when WE act this way? | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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 HpowerRoflmao
join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA | Great... I am so not surprised at this. They violated probably countless of laws anyway and will keep on doing it.
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The Internet is about to go down....it is actually. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Surprise! Where's those supporters of unlimited wiretapping now? You know, with the quotes like "If you don't have anything to hide..." etc?
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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|  The LimitPremium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2 | Re: Surprise! Hiding behind their usernames. | |
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| | Re: FBI Faked Terrorism Emergencies To Net User Phone Record So what's new? Is this any surprise? How Americans stand for this boggles my logic. Essentially this branch of the gov't, or is it an NGO? Commits acts against Americans that could be considered terrorist, and they do it in the name of "national security." It's almost like they aren't trying to protect anyone or anything, but FBI/CIA actions are always an exercise in power and their ability to bend rules. | |
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 dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
kudos:2 | what 4th ammendment?Remember when we had a 4th Amendment? ahh the good ol days...
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - B. Franklin | |
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| | | Re: what 4th ammendment? I guess this is where our tax dollars go, LOL, maybe by 2020 we'll finally have descent security that will actually do their jobs.
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| | Business calls are blocked by federal law enforcement Please take a look at this story and no taxicab service in the world should ever have to go through this kind of abuse. My phone calls have been blocked to destroy my business. I need help getting this story in the spotlight and I believe it might be the worst case of phone abuse by law enforcement on record.
»www.topix.com/forum/city/elk-cit···TU1EPLCG
www.killacab.blogspot.com
My numbers are 580-821-ACAB [2222] 580-225-TAXI [8294] 347-TAXI-GUY 724-VAN-TAXI | |
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