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Big Carriers May Apply For Second Round Stimulus Funds
But ONLY if they can get taxpayer funds with no pesky strings attached...

As the broadband stimulus bill was being hashed out, you'll recall it was stripped of some very lucrative, carrier-lobbied-for tax credits that would have given companies like Verizon billions for doing absolutely nothing differently -- after the credits were exposed by the NY Times. With no cash giveaways, fears that taking funds could lead to additional regulations, and restrictions requiring that ISPs use the money on under-served areas, last summer found the biggest ISPs saying no thanks to $7.2 billion in stimulus funds. Thousands of companies who actually want to deploy to rural markets wound up applying instead.

Ever since the first round however, the mega-carriers have been lobbying the government to have the restrictions on how they can spend the (your) money removed. Specifically, carriers wanted language removed that required fund recipients to adhere to neutral network principles, and they didn't want to be restricted to using the funds for rural and/or under-served markets only. Judging from Qwest's comments to the Denver Business Journal, they've been successful in getting those provisions removed. Qwest’s Colorado president seems to indicate that Qwest will apply for the second round of funding:

quote:
"The good news is that they seem to have heard us in Washington, D.C.,” said Chuck Ward, Qwest’s Colorado president. "It almost gets us able to apply." The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rural Utilities Service and Department of Commerce’s National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) adjusted rules for the nearly $3 billion second round of broadband stimulus grants. "We’ll see — we’ve put everybody back to work and dusted off the analysis we did for the first round," Ward said.
Of course what Ward means by "we'll see," is that his lawyers are still digging through the language of the new round of funding, and if Qwest sees anything at all that requires them to actually do anything, they probably won't apply. History is full of giant corporations that prefer their taxpayer funds with absolutely no accountability, and that is essentially what the biggest ISPs want if they're going to apply for these funds.

You might recall that Qwest insisted that just $1 billion dollars from taxpayers would help them deploy regular DSL service to 95% of the company's current footprint. One question is whether a company like Qwest deserves a taxpayer subsidy to deploy service to under-served areas, given the fact that Qwest has a bit of a history with skimping on network upgrades, yet has spent millions of dollars fighting underserved communities' efforts to wire themselves with broadband. Most notably Qwest spent millions trying to derail municipal fiber efforts in Utah, suing to stop Utopia from using state utility poles, while claiming that municipal fiber to the home service caused "long term harm to consumers".
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wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA

1 recommendation

wdoa

Member

Thank you for your purchase of the US Government

The best government money can buy. The United Corporations of America. Democracy had a half decent run here, but it's back to the serfdom for most of us.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: Thank you for your purchase of the US Government

Yep, your borrowed dollars at work...or not.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to wdoa

Member

to wdoa
said by wdoa:

The best government money can buy. The United Corporations of America. Democracy had a half decent run here, but it's back to the serfdom for most of us.
If you think things are different today that they were 100 or 150 years ago or more you're pretty ignorant.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

Re: Thank you for your purchase of the US Government

The reason for the American Revolution was the very rich were unhappy with their government and bought a new one more to their liking. Lucky for us they were not a bunch total control freaks and there was a lot of land not owned by anyone to expand into and make a life.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by wdoa:

The best government money can buy. The United Corporations of America. Democracy had a half decent run here, but it's back to the serfdom for most of us.
If you think things are different today that they were 100 or 150 years ago or more you're pretty ignorant.
Actually, they are much different. A lot of these spending, entitlement, and stimulus programs came about after the great depression; sadly, they haven't changed their ways since.. it was about that time when elected government officials realized that the people were nothing more than a source of income.

If you haven't noticed, the same pattern still exists today. These politicians get elected on promises made to the people, get in office, and serve their party, not the people. There is no connection between the parties and the people to-date like there was 150 years ago.

The government isn't "we the people"... the government isn't even it's own entity.. the government is about the survival of the party and it's own interests.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

It doesn't matter which party is in office, they both do the same thing, ... only serve different interests.. and none of those interests are not "the people".. it's those who will get them elected to office in another term.

People, to be honest, are ignorant... the people allow this to happen every 2 years, and will never learn.

Funny, too.. people thought that Sen. Ron Paul was a nutt-job, but he was one of the only people making sense. He was the only Presidential candidate that was calling for a change that would take the power and give it back to the people and take government further out of the picture; or as you say, back 150 years - as it should be.

Last I checked, the government wasn't a person so it really has non tit to suck on.. as it should be.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

almost gets us able to apply ???

“The good news is that they seem to have heard us in Washington, D.C.,” said Chuck Ward, Qwest’s Colorado president. “It almost gets us able to apply.”

And what does that mean? The rules in place still make it unlikely that Qwest will apply? OR that they still need more rule chgs and are working on getting the changes OK'd?

If the net neutrality provisions are still there and if they remain, Qwest may still not apply.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: almost gets us able to apply ???

It means if there's any rules there they don't like that tie regulatory action to the funds, they won't apply. In other words, they just want the money, free from requirements.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: almost gets us able to apply ???

That's pretty much it.

They essentially want the money w/o strings attached (i.e. pay me to build in the boonies') vs. let the government say how / when it needs to be built/supported. Some of it would could actually could (would) cost telco more than its worth.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 edit

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: almost gets us able to apply ???

The last thirty years of this country were built on doling out huge subsidies to corporations, then flaking out when it comes time to make sure the funds are put to good use, I just don't see why we should change such a successful formula now.
vinnie97
Premium Member
join:2003-12-05
US

vinnie97

Premium Member

Re: almost gets us able to apply ???

The scale seems to be growing and insurmountable, however. What's another trillion here and there, eh?

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to Karl Bode

Member

to Karl Bode
Probably longer than that. I'm sure that you're referring to the build out of general infrastucture (Interstates, utility grids, wireless, Internet, etc.)

Of course, the foundation for almost everything already exists. Now its becoming more of an issue of corporations being requested to deploy / support newer items (highspeed, wireless, etc) with no guarantee of success. The old school - government regulated ensured it. Having something like POTS/Cable when items like WiMAX/UTMS/LTE/EVDO can suffice puts risk.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 edit

Sammer to en102

Member

to en102
said by en102:

That's pretty much it.

They essentially want the money w/o strings attached (i.e. pay me to build in the boonies') vs. let the government say how / when it needs to be built/supported. Some of it would could actually could (would) cost telco more than its worth.
Actually it's more like pay me to build where I make the biggest profits whether or not that's in the boonies. IOW they don't want the money to deploy broadband where it's most needed they just think their entitled to corporate welfare.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: almost gets us able to apply ???

I agree.
I 'almost' suspect that companies like AT&T / VZW are holding off on any buildouts until they can secure some 'easy' stimulus:

AT&T: 3G 'upgrades' - wait for free cash. Uverse - similar
VZW: FiOS expansion - wait for free cash.

Why force rate hikes for buildout, when the government will give you the money.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

1 edit

fiberguy2 to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
There needs to be no rules for them to like or not when it comes to any money.. in fact, there needs to be NO money for them. They have enough money to build out their own networks.. What these communication companies NEED is regulation that REQUIRES them to put a required minimum of their profit BACK into their networks... period.

To say they need any kind of stimulus or bail out, or money - what ever fancy PR term the Gov wants to put on this tax money, is to say that they can't afford to be in business to begin with... totally false. These companies have plenty of profits to operate on their own.

If the government can require that a certain percentage of a new building's construction expense has to go into "arts" in the project, then the same rule can certainly apply to something as important as infrustructure that connects this nation together.

They need to do away with any taxes like the FUSF which is free money to the phone company and simply require that serving rural areas is a part of doing business. And, as cable pushes into the phone business, they too should be required to build out plant the same way that phone has to do.

It's not like their broke.. they have money. I can tell you where MUCH of their money goes... it goes into competing with each other. These businesses need to do what they do best.. provide the service they provide.. the customer knows they exists and how to get a hold of them.. if they'd put a large portion of their BS advertisements into building out plant and upgrades, we'd be fine.

So the way *I* see these government money grabs.. it's just more advertising revenue.

Another way to put this... if I loaned you $100 for what ever reason... until you pay me back, ANY discretionary spending you make (ie: eat out, go to the movies, buy MP3 downloads, ... toys) ... you're spending MY money. That's what these companies want to do.. they want MY money so they can compete with their competition so as the scales tip in their favor, in return for MY money, I get the ability to pay more for my monthly services.

I say it's time the govt' puts the nation's credit card back in the wallet.

And while I'm on a soap box here.. let me say this.. I DO have one requirement I'd love to see with the money - that you know they are going to get anyway.. any ads that they place, while they have borrowed money, can ONLY talk about their OWN services and pricing.. and NOT mention ANY competitor's name, industry, etc. In other words.. if you're needing money to build out a network for the people.. then sell IT... don't use MY money to slam the other guy.. it annoys the hell out of me when they do this in advertising.. these ads remind me TOO much of political ads... they never say what THEY have to offer, they only tell you what the OTHER guy's faults are.. to which I find a waste of money; another reason I NEVER give to candidates.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

1 edit

1 recommendation

Z80A to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

“The good news is that they seem to have heard us in Washington, D.C.,” said Chuck Ward, Qwest’s Colorado president. “It almost gets us able to apply.”

And what does that mean?
That means they got the check Qwest sent.

Logan 5
What a long strange trip its been
Premium Member
join:2001-05-25
San Francisco, CA

Logan 5

Premium Member

A Dark Day indeed for this Country

When political 'pressure' can lead to negative changes in laws or governments, no one wins at the level of who those laws or governmental decisions truly affect... you and me.

Ironic that it's been said over the years & decades that all of the "ism" styles of government are bad/evil/corrup/{insert favorite adjective here} when Democracy is now no better and is bought and sold at the highest (and lowest levels) of the US Political system, and is really no better then Italy was under Mussolini or the old USSR was under Stalin.

Whats the point anymore in voting for some slick mouthed politician who promises change then eats his word like a snake swallows a mouse?

We should hang all of our US Flags upside down because if anyone thinks this country is not in distress then they're either a fool or delusional but either way out-of-touch with reality.

It's stunts like this one that make me ashamed to say I'm American...

Land of the Free* & the Home of the Bought

*Certain restrictions to your freedom's and liberties may apply


IT Guy
Ow, My Balls
Premium Member
join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
Cisco ASA 5505
Cisco Meraki MX64

IT Guy

Premium Member

Re: A Dark Day indeed for this Country

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· CWS_Hw1E

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Logan 5

Premium Member

to Logan 5
said by Logan 5:

Whats the point anymore in voting for some slick mouthed politician who promises change then eats his word like a snake swallows a mouse?
I've seen many opportunities over the years where people had the chance to actually vote for a 3rd party candidate that really was different. The voters ALWAYS went for the existing candidates. So the voters are as much to blame for this situation as are the lying politicians they continually put in office.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: A Dark Day indeed for this Country

Hmmm, perhaps education plays a role there. Or is that too much holistic thinking...

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

Re: A Dark Day indeed for this Country

I liked the way Tom Clancy "removed" politicians from office in "Debt of Honor".
jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM

jarthur31

Member

Re: A Dark Day indeed for this Country

Haha! I remember that. Where was Ryan again? Hadn't he just been sworn in as Veep? It's been years since I read this and I swore they'd make a movie out of it. It was a very entertaining read.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

1 recommendation

openbox9 to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
People need to want to be educated first. Until the masses care enough to step up and make a real change (whether that be educating themselves, speaking out, voting differently, contributing to lobbying groups that actually care about consumers, etc.), the status quo will continue.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958 to Logan 5

Premium Member

to Logan 5
said by Logan 5:

When political 'pressure' can lead to negative changes in laws or governments, no one wins at the level of who those laws or governmental decisions truly affect... you and me.

Ironic that it's been said over the years & decades that all of the "ism" styles of government are bad/evil/corrupt/{insert favorite adjective here} when Democracy is now no better and is bought and sold at the highest (and lowest levels) of the US Political system, and is really no better then Italy was under Mussolini or the old USSR was under Stalin.

Whats the point anymore in voting for some slick mouthed politician who promises change then eats his word like a snake swallows a mouse?

We should hang all of our US Flags upside down because if anyone thinks this country is not in distress then they're either a fool or delusional but either way out-of-touch with reality.

It's stunts like this one that make me ashamed to say I'm American...

Land of the Free* & the Home of the Bought

*Certain restrictions to your freedom's and liberties may apply

You hit the nail on the head!!

Camaro
Question everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA

Camaro

Premium Member

And people wonder....

Why people complain about a carrier and badmouth them in here,now they want milk us byte by byte and spend my tax dollars anyway they want with no strings attached,at lease the banks have to pay back the money eventually.
JonBoySC
join:2009-06-26
Pickens, SC

JonBoySC

Member

Re: And people wonder....

It's probably not going to do any good, but I did contact my senator on this matter. I'm pretty sure I'll get a nice handwritten letter in a few days saying thanks for contacting me, but that'll probably be the extent of it. In reality the only vote is the almighty dollar, which I don't have enough of to be heard.
Desdinova
Premium Member
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD

Desdinova

Premium Member

Re: And people wonder....

At least your senators can write. My just pump out generic form letters filled with hollow, feel-good jingoisms and send it out signed by an aide.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL to JonBoySC

Member

to JonBoySC
said by JonBoySC:

It's probably not going to do any good, but I did contact my senator on this matter. I'm pretty sure I'll get a nice handwritten letter in a few days saying thanks for contacting me, but that'll probably be the extent of it. In reality the only vote is the almighty dollar, which I don't have enough of to be heard.
Sometimes I think that H. Beam Piper had the right idea (and political system) in his book "A Planet for Texans". In that system, each constituent is allowed (and legally has) total and unhindered access to his representatives to be able to register face-to-face his dissatisfaction with the way the Politician is serving that constituent. If the Politician (or his surviving friends) feel that the constituent used excessive force in registering his disapproval of the actions of the Politician, the claim is heard in the "Court of Political Justice". The burden is on the Politician (or Friends) to prove their case of overreaction (IOW: It is the actions of Politician which is being tried not the actions of the constituent).

An interesting system since it requires that the interests of ALL the constituents be served and punishes those Politician who do not provide this service.
pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA

pabster to Camaro

Member

to Camaro
Actually, they don't...ever heard of TARP?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Camaro

Premium Member

to Camaro
honestly people wonder why there is such hate for big corporations, they want to be able to do whatever they want even when its using our tax dollars.

just look at the banks they get our tax dollars and still pay out their bonuses to the execs when they should have just said no bonus this year sorry. yet somehow the crooks at AIG are too big to fail so we throw nearly 1 trillion at AIG and now we cancel something far more important then saving AIG, we canceled going back to the moon. space travel > AIG.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

The new vote will be

If you don't vote my way I will bankroll a candidate that will vote more to my liking. Even if they move the politician only slightly in their direction they have won.
Just look how the Tea Party has been taking over by the rich and powerful that will say they are looking out for the little guy but all they want is their vote and money then they set off to enrich their friends.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

2 edits

SimbaSeven

Member

Starting my own wireless ISP..

I'm seriously looking at starting my own wireless ISP and applying for these funds. I really want to serve most (or all) of the state with wireless broadband.

Coming from a small town (Broadus), I know how difficult it is to just get dialup let alone broadband. It took us 2 years before we got a local phone number to connect (the closest town was 80mi away that had it). Unfortunately, they also charged by the hour.

I know there's several rural towns that are either stuck with dialup or satellite (mostly ranches outside the area that can't get DSL or Cable). Wireless would be PERFECT for these areas.

I can see Qwest getting these funds and doing nothing (which wouldn't surprise me). It's time to get the smaller, independant companies that DO want to help to get the funds they need.
MZR2
join:2006-08-12
TX

MZR2

Member

Re: Starting my own wireless ISP..

Head over to the WISP forum , and see how many WISPs willing to provide better connectivity to rural USA are getting their applications denied.

WiseOldBear
Laissez les bons temps rouler!
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Litchfield Park, AZ
Motorola MB8600
Synology RT2600ac

WiseOldBear

Premium Member

Greed is Supreme

Qwest in all of it's lives has been focused exclusively on high wages for senior staff and enough ROI to keep stockholders, i.e. analysts happy. Service has never been a really important concern. Advertising is cheaper than infrastructure and doesn't have to be maintained.

However, Qwest is no worse than any other exBell system company. They just have the misfortune of having large areas of low population, rugged terrain in their territory. They are all scumbags and let avarice drive them.