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Clearwire: LTE Won't Happen Before 2012
Though CEO suggests they'll be ready to make the shift
by Karl Bode 10:04AM Wednesday May 12 2010
Clearwire has repeatedly stated that they'll make the jump from Mobile WiMax to LTE if that's where the wind blows -- a position that was made more clearly lately after they re-worked a contract with Intel so that it no longer restricted Clearwire to using WiMax. Given that the majority of their network would remain the same, the shift shouldn't be that expensive -- though there are technical obstacles to overcome and Clearwire is burning through money quickly. Clearwire Bill Morrow gives a little more detail to CNET, and says that he doesn't see any shift to LTE happening before 2012. Says Morrow:
quote:
When we drafted the original commercial agreement with Intel, it was about promoting the ecosystem for 4G. And part of the condition for creating a bigger ecosystem is that Clearwire wouldn't offer a competing commercial technology on the network for three years, which would have taken us to 2011 or January of 2012. But a lot has changed in the market since that agreement. And each of us realized we needed more flexibility to deal with the evolution of technology. So we amended the agreement so that either party can terminate the technology agreement within 30 days. So we aren't bound to using one kind of technology or another.
Morrow again reiterates that Wimax and LTE have 80 percent overlap when it comes to the hardware deployed to the field, and that Clearwire is working with vendors to make any possible transition (or the operation of a dual LTE/WiMax network) an easy one. Meanwhile, the CEO also takes a little shot at Verizon, who'll soon be launching LTE service of their own:
quote:
We take comfort in the fact that we have far more spectrum than they do. And this is a capacity game. You want coverage, of course. But if you can't support the capacity, then customers have a bad experience. And if you don't have the capacity you have to bump your customers down to 3G, which limits them. We're finding that customers are using on average 7GB of data per month on our service. The average amount of data a 3G subscriber uses a month is about 1GB to 2.5GB a month.
The company continues to insist that the service will be available to 120 million people across the United States by the end of this year. Meanwhile, our user reviews of Clearwire service continue to be very mixed.

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jimbo2150

join:2004-05-10
Euclid, OH

LTE will never happen...

Not until 2012? Sure, wait until the end of the world so you don't have to deploy it...




--

- "Techie" Jim
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Switch or additon?

They have enough spectrum to add LTE, they don't necessarily have to switch. If there continues to be global WiMAX presence, Clear might want to stay on board so that the US also has presence. Cable companies will want WiMAX since both are tied into IEEE and don't have access to 3GGP control (LTE). The consumer electronics industry would want WiMAX because they don't have to get approval (eventually) from telcom companies as the case with LTE. Consumers should want WiMAX because if LTE dominates, the telcom companies will have total control of the future of wireless. We need both to offset each other.

Good for Clear to have options and all that spectrum, 4x ATT/Verizon freely available for 4G.. If Sprint would just dump iDen (Nextel), they'd have even more spectrum in 800Mhz space.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Switch or additon?

said by xenophon:

They have enough spectrum to add LTE, they don't necessarily have to switch.
Except I'm sure running dual networks doesn't get Clear to that 80% overlap that it's thrown around a couple of times now.
said by xenophon:

If there continues to be global WiMAX presence, Clear might want to stay on board so that the US also has presence.
I guess that'll depend on how well Clear is doing next year.
said by xenophon:

If Sprint would just dump iDen (Nextel), they'd have even more spectrum in 800Mhz space.
Sufficient capacity at lower frequencies would greatly enhance Clear and more quickly shoot its reach beyond 120M people.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Switch or additon?

There are too many large backers (Intel, Sprint, Cable companies, etc) for Clear to disappear in a year. Sprint is stabilizing and isn't going anywhere soon. If anything, Clear would be sold but I doubt Sprint would give up the spectrum.

But yeah, if WiMAX isn't doing well in a year and LTE shows some real beef by then, it would make sense for them to make the switch. I wonder what the operational overhead would be to operate both though.

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Switch or additon?

said by xenophon:

There are too many large backers (Intel, Sprint, Cable companies, etc) for Clear to disappear in a year. Sprint is stabilizing and isn't going anywhere soon. If anything, Clear would be sold but I doubt Sprint would give up the spectrum.

But yeah, if WiMAX isn't doing well in a year and LTE shows some real beef by then, it would make sense for them to make the switch.
Real LTE use won't even be starting for a year...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Switch or additon?

Verizon seems to think it will be end of this year.

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Switch or additon?

said by xenophon:

Verizon seems to think it will be end of this year.
Only for laptop connect data, and their trial with no users is rather underwhelming so far...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

1 edit

Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

...because it requires another huge investment and when you have extremely greedy companies like AT&T it's not going to happen fast.

The main problem is that most analysts think re-usability of existing 3G/HSPA devices means you just slap another radio unit (there are various freqs I read like 700MHz) on top of it and you're done upgrading - right, only if you decided to kill your market share by replacing HSPA with LTE (ain't gonna happen.)

There's no chance in hell it's going to be mass available before 2012 (or late 2011 which is essentially the same), I am saying this for several months now - and until then TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader (Imregularly measure 10-12Mb/s during peak hours in Downtown Manhattan and even higher back home in Brooklyn.)
--
said by bicker:

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

SOme good info here: »connectedplanetonline.com/3g4g/n···th-0112/
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by kamm:

and until then TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader
And except for the relative few people actually in T-Mobile's footprint, that claim-to-fame really doesn't matter. Besides, serious question, how often do you seriously need 10-12 Mbps on a mobile device?

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

1 edit

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by openbox9:

said by kamm:

and until then TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader
And except for the relative few people actually in T-Mobile's footprint, that claim-to-fame really doesn't matter.
Says all the people who have very little clue about actual footprints - it's not much different from AT&T's real "3G" (and I use 3G loosely here as most of the time their uber-shitty speeds don't even qualify for that regardless of using UMTS).

Besides, serious question, how often do you seriously need 10-12 Mbps on a mobile device?
Anytime when I'm trying to work, email, send a picture or a video.

You know, things people buy a smartphone for.
--
said by bicker:

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Click for full size
said by kamm:

Says all the people who have very little clue about actual footprints
I can see how easy it might be to confuse these coverage maps If you never leave the city, then coverage probably isn't a concern, but for those that travel....
said by kamm:

Anytime when I'm trying to work, email, send a picture or a video.
And working, e-mailing, sending pictures, and videos don't work at 2-3 Mbps?

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

1 edit

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by openbox9:

said by kamm:

Says all the people who have very little clue about actual footprints
I can see how easy it might be to confuse these coverage maps If you never leave the city, then coverage probably isn't a concern, but for those that travel....
FYI almost all data-enabled areas are upgraded or being upgraded to HSPA+ already.

Secondly accroding to the last census over 80% of the US population live in metropolitan areas - you know, areas where TMO covers just fine.

And yes, I have traveled in the Northeast and got excellent speeds no only in NY but both in NJ, CT.

said by kamm:

Anytime when I'm trying to work, email, send a picture or a video.
And working, e-mailing, sending pictures, and videos don't work at 2-3 Mbps?
Ouch...

FYI I have an 8 megapixel cam in my phone, each JPG is ~3MB... if I take 10 shots that's 30MBs...

...imagine my WWVGA videos - last time songs I recorded during a live concert were 80-100MB each...

...and then there's my wife's 12MP phone...

But hey, you are right but why stop there? Let's get back to GPRS, they work there too, don't they?
--
said by bicker:

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Can we agree on a potential trade-off between coverage and throughput...at least between VZW and TMO?

I don't understand large megapixel image captures with phones. If I want high-quality, hi-rez captures, I'll bring my Nikon DSLR. As for using a phone to record A/V at a live concert...I'll pass. So, I guess we have different usage patterns, which explains our differing opinions of 2-3 Mbps and 10 Mbps smart phone connections.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Everyone wants faster connections. Clear's uncapped service has allowed many people to use it as a home internet connection (when it works).
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Of course everyone wants more throughput. The trade offs are cost and availability. My point is that I'll choose near ubiquitous coverage and 2-3 Mbps for my smartphone over gaping coverage holes and the potential for 10 Mbps, all else being equal.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by openbox9:

Of course everyone wants more throughput. The trade offs are cost and availability. My point is that I'll choose near ubiquitous coverage and 2-3 Mbps for my smartphone over gaping coverage holes and the potential for 10 Mbps, all else being equal.
MMMMmmmkay... I just said it's the fastest network out there, keep in mind.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
said by kamm:

and until then TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader (Imregularly measure 10-12Mb/s during peak hours in Downtown Manhattan and even higher back home in Brooklyn.)
And you've yet to show us the pudding...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

said by kamm:

and until then TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader (Imregularly measure 10-12Mb/s during peak hours in Downtown Manhattan and even higher back home in Brooklyn.)
And you've yet to show us the pudding...
Ehh? I don't owe you anything, you're confusing me with someone else.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by kamm:

Ehh? I don't owe you anything, you're confusing me with someone else.
said by kamm:

...TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader (Imregularly measure 10-12Mb/s during peak hours in Downtown Manhattan and even higher back home in Brooklyn.)
O rly...?
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

said by kamm:

Ehh? I don't owe you anything, you're confusing me with someone else.
said by kamm:

...TMO will rule the market as undisputable data network speed leader (Imregularly measure 10-12Mb/s during peak hours in Downtown Manhattan and even higher back home in Brooklyn.)
O rly...?
Seriously: what are you talking about...?
Can you form an intelligent question at all?
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

2 edits

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by kamm:

Seriously: what are you talking about...?
Can you form an intelligent question at all?
We're waiting for your 12Mb/s screenshot...

my edit: Dear mods, if your gonna edit my post, at least leave a courtesy note...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

said by kamm:

Seriously: what are you talking about...?
Can you form an intelligent question at all?
We're waiting for your 12Mb/s screenshot...
Gosh, ignorance is bliss... there's NO option for screenshot on the X10.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by kamm:

said by aztecnology:

said by kamm:

Seriously: what are you talking about...?
Can you form an intelligent question at all?
We're waiting for your 12Mb/s screenshot...
Gosh, ignorance is bliss... there's NO option for screenshot on the X10.
Fail...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

Fail...
I agree, you did and spectacularly...

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Found my post from last week: »www.mobilespeedtest.com/results/···9600.jpg

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Here's mine from right now from my pc, rather inaccurate...



--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

2 edits

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

Here's mine from right now from my pc, rather inaccurate...



ROFL, you are truly clueless - speedtest.net can be way inaccurate in many cases (eg cached content, buggy Flash player etc.)

For instance we were happy to see some crazy numbers - only until we figured out it's multithreaded and connected on both connections we had (I use dynamic load balancing)...

--
said by bicker:

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

1 edit

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Here's my test from yesterday, from this site, with java...


--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

1 edit

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

said by kamm:

ROFL, you are truly clueless - speedtest.net can be way inaccurate in many cases (eg cached content, buggy Flash player etc.)
Here's my test from yesterday, from this site, with java...


Tried but it didn't run in Opera 5, Dolphin, Skyfire or native Android Browser.

If you can tell me how to access my saved Opera 5 pages on my X10 I can post the saved pages here...
--
said by bicker:

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

Best option so far is this:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ug3lIN-r9o


However I don't have time right now to go through this whole gymnastics...

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
said by aztecnology:

said by kamm:

ROFL, you are truly clueless - speedtest.net can be way inaccurate in many cases (eg cached content, buggy Flash player etc.)
Here's my test from yesterday, from this site, with java...


Ahhh BTW this was the first measurement, right?

You need to use at least the "5MB" link to get precise results - click on 3 megs then 5 meg and 7 meg will show up.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

1 edit

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

I did, 7Mb, still inaccurate...

--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Anyone even remotely familiar with LTE knows this already...

said by aztecnology:

I did, 7Mb, still inaccurate...

Probably it needs bigger packet for fiber speeds... send them feedback so they can update their tool.

BTW for me too it measures a bit slower than DSLR's iPhone tools in WiFi mode... maybe beyond 10-11Mb is its accuracy threshold until they update the package size?
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
I think I figured out a way, using Dolphin browser on my X10... let me log in and post it from my phone, OK?

•••

Chris H

@136.204.224.x

Will they be they same LTE though

I'm sure that if clearwire decides to switch or dual support lte and wi-max they'll try to use the channels they already have to limit costs. That probably means we'll have a gsm/cdma moment.