1 recommendation |
ATT listened!quote: Then again, had Verizon listened to Moffett -- they'd be stuck fighting cable DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades, the VoIP triple play, and the continuing death of landline with aging last-generation copper and crossed fingers.
Pretty much where ATT is right now... | |
|
| |
Re: ATT listened!As did Maine, NH and VT for deal with Failpoint! LOL! | |
|
| |
to Uncle Paul
The assumption is that this kind of competition is even there to begin with.
The major problem over a vast majority of our country and thus over a vast majority of the consumers in the country is that having either only 1 or 2 actual broadband choices generally brings just the status quo. And the incumbents will continue to do the very bare minimum to appear to compete and to appear to be bringing something good when in reality they have not done much of anything to improve the overall infrastructure of the last mile and the most important part of the connection for the consumer.
Look at Hong Kong now 1 gig symmetrical for $26 a month. Sure they are smaller, but what about New York, Chicago, and other extremely large cities. Cities that have millions of people in a small area that can get at best 100meg for several times more.
It is not a matter of whether or not they can afford to do it or even should do it. It is a matter of simply telling the short term investors to kiss off (Like Moffett) and actually doing it for the betterment of the company as a whole and for the future. | |
|
|
techman0001
Anon
2010-Jul-7 11:17 am
reThis is why analysts have the most useless position. Another job where they are paid to be wrong all the time. | |
|
| openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 11:41 am
Re: reAnalysts actually serve a very useful purpose...for their employers and hedge fund buddies | |
|
banditws6Shrinking Time and Distance Premium Member join:2001-08-18 Frisco, TX |
Like a broken recordI think Moffett has forgotten that businesses actually have to provide some kind of value -- either in product or service -- in return for the money they collect, and that if that value is substandard, the company won't be around long enough to continue collecting said money.
I'm sure, of course, that Moffett would prefer Verizon to just take people's money and give it all directly to investors while producing nothing. | |
|
sefs join:2010-07-01 Gibsonia, PA |
sefs
Member
2010-Jul-7 11:22 am
Old ThinkingIf all companies listened to this, we'd still be on 56K modems because, "We can sell them another line and charge usage fees on it! What a great idea! Want more speed? Let us sell you a T1 line for exorbitant fees!". Competition is the only thing that will drive innovation. Otherwise, what's the reason to invest in a captive audience? Verizon laying FiOS has driven the innovation of DOCSIS 3.0 and other fast services. | |
|
moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2010-Jul-7 11:30 am
Really Mr. Moffett?quote: "Without these access lines, we project that the wireline segment which still accounts for ~70% of Verizon's asset base (proportionate for VZ's 55% ownership of VZW) will produce negative operating income going forward," the analysts said in their research report, adding that while the divested properties accounted for just 8.8% of Verizon's wireline revenues in 2009, they contributed an incredible 53.7% of wireline's pre-tax operating free cash flow [EBITDA less capex]."
Now, is this the same research you did when you said FIOS would implode? If this guy was my financial advisor, I would have fired him long ago. | |
|
| |
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?wise i got paid to do the wrong info....... moffet | |
|
| | moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2010-Jul-7 11:51 am
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?said by firedrakes:wise i got paid to do the wrong info....... moffet That's because Moffett took all of Bernie Madoff's clients. | |
|
| openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
to moonpuppy
In his defense, VZ's investment in FiOS hasn't exactly spurred any great growth for the company. Not exactly imploding, but..... | |
|
| | JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max. Premium Member join:2004-12-20 La La Land |
JRW2
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 1:06 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?said by openbox9:In his defense, VZ's investment in FiOS hasn't exactly spurred any great growth for the company. Not exactly imploding, but..... Investments such as this don't usually show IMMEDIATE profits, but in the long run turn out to be a VERY cheap investment in the company that has long range payoffs in savings. In the case of FIOS, we are ONLY looking at the "Triple Play" area and forgetting the changes on the back-end at the CO's that will save Verizon BOATLOADS of cash in maintenance costs, PLUS offer them a way to be on the forefront of FUTURE delivery of next generation of services... | |
|
| | | |
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Your speaking with a man that probably Twitters and is a friend on Facebook with Moffet.
Don't attempt to debate the obvious with him. | |
|
| | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 2:13 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?I've never even been to Twitter's webpage and I don't have a Facebook account. BTW, I have some VZ in my portfolio, so if anything, I'm at odds with Moffett. Anytime you'd like to debate the actual financials of VZ, let me know. | |
|
| | | openbox9
1 recommendation |
to JRW2
Reducing maintenance cost isn't growth. Both are nice for the bottom line, but some growth would've been a nice boon for VZ. I understand long term prospects, but so far, FiOS doesn't appear to have even moved the needle. Wireless is where it's at for VZ and T. | |
|
| | | | mobbo join:2005-04-13 Denton, TX |
mobbo
Member
2010-Jul-7 2:16 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Ya, and wireless is going very well for T... | |
|
| | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 2:24 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Actually, it is AT&T posted a net gain in total wireless subscribers of 1.9 million, the highest first-quarter total in the companys history, to reach 87.0 million in service. First-quarter net add growth reflects continued rapid adoption of smartphones and a host of connected devices. Connected devices in service increased by 1.1 million in the quarter to reach 5.8 million, and retail postpaid net adds totaled 512,000 to reach 65.1 million.
Average monthly subscriber churn improved substantially in the first quarter, reaching the companys best-ever levels and marking AT&Ts fifth consecutive quarter of year-over-year improvement in both total and postpaid wireless churn. Postpaid churn was 1.07 percent, down from 1.15 percent in both the year-earlier quarter and the fourth quarter of 2009. Total churn was 1.30 percent, down from 1.56 percent in the first quarter of 2009 and down from 1.42 percent in the fourth quarter of 2009. » www.att.com/Investor/Fin ··· INAL.pdf | |
|
| | | | | | mobbo join:2005-04-13 Denton, TX |
mobbo
Member
2010-Jul-7 4:22 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Again, those are great numbers, but check back in 3 to 5 years. After the iPhone exclusivity agreement goes away. After those 2 year iphone contracts go away. After the family share plans go away. After Android becomes the more widely accepted smartphone platform. The problem with AT&T across EVERY division (besides the horrid union labor) is the incredible short-sightedness. It would be very unwise to think those churn numbers will stay in the black unless they actually do some Verizon-style investment in their networks. And before anyone says "its not that bad", and you could argue that until the cows come home, the problem is no longer a debate point on tech-savvy forums like DSLR. Its now public perception that AT&T's network is horrid. My dad, love him to death, but he doesn't know jack shit about cell services, 3G, 4G, the internet, networks, etc... but he knows AT&T's network is one to avoid. Shaking that label is going to be AT&T's biggest problem. Every iPhone 4 review gave the phone great reviews, but the AT&T network was the downside. And when people are given an out (Android, loss of iPhone exclusivity, etc.), they will. | |
|
| | | | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 4:35 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?In 3 to 5 years, the "next big thing" will be here so we'll see. AT&T continues to invest in its network, so things will continue to improve. Yes, it faces a fair amount of negative PR these days, but things will get better. The iPhone will be around for a while and there's plenty of room for Android, BB, and the iPhone in the market. I'm not defending AT&T's (in)action, but I don't believe the death knell is sounding. | |
|
| | | | |
to openbox9
growth for the sake of growth |
said by openbox9:Reducing maintenance cost isn't growth. Both are nice for the bottom line, but some growth would've been a nice boon for VZ. I understand long term prospects, but so far, FiOS doesn't appear to have even moved the needle. Wireless is where it's at for VZ and T. src: » www.nytimes.com/slidesho ··· dex.html | |
|
| | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 3:16 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Point???
Burn the houses and move on. | |
|
| | | | | | Jim Kirk Premium Member join:2005-12-09 49985 |
Jim Kirk
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 8:21 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Point???
Burn the analysts and move on. | |
|
| | | | JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max. Premium Member join:2004-12-20 La La Land |
to openbox9
said by openbox9:Reducing maintenance cost isn't growth. Both are nice for the bottom line, but some growth would've been a nice boon for VZ. I understand long term prospects, but so far, FiOS doesn't appear to have even moved the needle. Wireless is where it's at for VZ and T. While VZ seems to be focused almost entirely on wireless phones, they seem to be missing the opportunities that the fiber to people's homes affords them. I would also argue that by installing FIOS they have arrested the loss of people to the cable companies, to me this is a positive on their balancesheet, but I doubt they see that, hence the choice to STOP the further rollout of FIOS. | |
|
| | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 3:43 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Wireless is where the money is now and will most likely be for the next few years. For a telecom with any sort of wireless arm to not focus on growing its wireless base is foolish. I'm not suggesting that FTTH doesn't help stem VZ from bleeding wired customers even faster than it already is, my point is that the investment in FiOS hasn't generated the return that VZ, and many around this forum, had hoped it would. It definitely hasn't generated the growth that many investors desire. | |
|
| | | | | | |
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?said by openbox9:Wireless is where the money is now and will most likely be for the next few years. For a telecom with any sort of wireless arm to not focus on growing its wireless base is foolish. I'm not suggesting that FTTH doesn't help stem VZ from bleeding wired customers even faster than it already is, my point is that the investment in FiOS hasn't generated the return that VZ, and many around this forum, had hoped it would. It definitely hasn't generated the growth that many investors desire. It's difficult to grow in an already saturated market. Your analysis of the wireless market is also mistaken, as it too is experiencing saturation. Once true 4G is installed, monetizing voice minutes will become a huge problem. Moffett's point is that wireline provides a large amount of consistent revenue (due to an utter lack of competition), and a loss of that stable base puts a company at greater risk. FIOS has also done a great deal to stem the tide of wireline customer churn. Yes cable is still bashing telecom on the head with its addition of customers, but Verizon isn't losing FIOS customers the way AT&T is losing DSL subscribers. | |
|
| | | | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-9 6:40 am
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?I disagree. Wireless is growing and has been for a few years. iPhones sell like hotcakes and other smartphone usage (and the extra revenue) has grown exponentially in the last year or two with no signs of slowing for the next couple of years. Once LTE is deployed, who cares about minutes and SMS...the carriers will be metering your bits, not the minutes.
Stemming churn is not growth. Just because VZ isn't losing as many customers, doesn't mean the investment in FiOS is generating revenue at the expected rate. | |
|
| | | | | | | | JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max. Premium Member join:2004-12-20 La La Land |
JRW2
Premium Member
2010-Jul-9 9:24 am
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?said by openbox9:....doesn't mean the investment in FiOS is generating revenue at the expected rate. All companies are TOO short sighted and have unrealistic expectations when it comes "expected revenues"... If it doesn't make A LOT of money VERY fast, it is a failure, even though it may have very good revenues. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-9 9:41 am
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?You're right. How dare companies try to make money. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max. Premium Member join:2004-12-20 La La Land |
JRW2
Premium Member
2010-Jul-9 9:46 am
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?said by openbox9:You're right. How dare companies try to make money. Don't twist what I said... I said they all seem to have HIGH expectations on revenues, if they don't hit those numbers, they consider it a loss, even though they ARE making a profit, and in many cases a good one, just not what they HOPED FOR... As an example.. A company I worked for EXPECTED to make 15 million dollars PROFIT one quarter, when they only made twelve million, they considered it a three million dollar LOSS. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-9 10:02 am
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?You're right. I should've wrote, "How dare companies try to make their revenue targets."
Considered it a $3M loss for what purpose? Internal management's loss? Missed earnings so the company's stock was hammered? | |
|
| | | | xrobertcmx Premium Member join:2001-06-18 White Plains, MD |
to openbox9
I wouldn't have a Verizon bill if not for Fios. Over priced 3/768 Dsl and over priced phone can't compete with a cable triple play offering. Of course it wasn't until Fios deployed that Comcast only decided to offer a slightly better rip off. | |
|
| | |
JasonOD to openbox9
Anon
2010-Jul-7 1:37 pm
to openbox9
Except they have (and continue to) future-proof themselves in most of their most competitive and most profitable markets.
Look, VZ's not a company that's for sale and it's a war out there. They've got to spend some money to advance their products in the marketplace. Qwest, on the other hand, needs to be sold and rightfully shouldn't be spending any cash on long term investments. | |
|
| | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 2:17 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?I don't understand why people can't grasp the concept of growth. As an actual investor in VZ, I don't have a fundamental issue with the FiOS investment. My point is that FiOS to date hasn't really moved the needle for FiOS and isn't creating the growth that many people insisted would occur with replacing copper with fiber and entering the pay TV market. | |
|
| | |
to openbox9
said by openbox9:In his defense, VZ's investment in FiOS hasn't exactly spurred any great growth for the company. Not exactly imploding, but..... "great growth", well, how much did FIOS PREVENT a decline? If FIOS isn't a core product, atleast its a retention offer to keep defections to slow 8mbitps cable and MSO VOIP. | |
|
| | | ••• |
| | moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
to openbox9
said by openbox9:In his defense, VZ's investment in FiOS hasn't exactly spurred any great growth for the company. Not exactly imploding, but..... Neither has Quest which has done a worse job and yet Mr. Moffett seems to like what they are doing. | |
|
| | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 3:36 pm
Re: Really Mr. Moffett?Why not. Qwest farmed themselves out to the highest bidder and found it in the form of CenturyLink. | |
|
| | pnolte join:1999-10-21 Chino, CA |
to openbox9
Another thing holding Verizon back is the crappy DVR they use. I bet if they had something better, more users would be willing to make the change | |
|
| alchav join:2002-05-17 Saint George, UT |
to moonpuppy
Craig Moffett is a Wall Street Guy, he doesn't know anything about the operation of Telco's. His predictions are all based on the Bottom Line, and making money for his investors. Nothing wrong with that, but if the Telco's start listening to him they will fail. That's what's wrong with AT&T, they bring in these type of guys into upper management and you can see the results. Verizon will be the only Telco, or for that matter company, making money for their FiOS decision. | |
|
| Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA |
to moonpuppy
While I don't really agree with the Sanford Bernstein Anal-ysis it is entirely possible that Verizon sold too many assets to Frontier. | |
|
Jim Kirk Premium Member join:2005-12-09 49985
1 recommendation |
Jim Kirk
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 11:33 am
AnalystsAnalysts are one step below lawyers on the scum of the earth chart. | |
|
| N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano Premium Member join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs |
N3OGH
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 3:09 pm
Re: AnalystsWith politicians who are lawyers at the top! | |
|
SLD Premium Member join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA |
SLD
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 11:43 am
AssHat![See subject] | |
|
|
lolquote: "Without these access lines, we project that the wireline segment which still accounts for ~70% of Verizon's asset base (proportionate for VZ's 55% ownership of VZW) will produce negative operating income going forward," the analysts said in their research report, adding that while the divested properties accounted for just 8.8% of Verizon's wireline revenues in 2009, they contributed an incredible 53.7% of wireline's pre-tax operating free cash flow [EBITDA less capex]."
Hmmm. Are you telling me that those 8% of Verizon's gross income, resulted in 50% of Verizon's profit? Maybe I should buy Frontier stock now | |
|
|
He should quit his day job......Because time after time he predicts that FiOS will crash and burn, while more and more people switch, and their satisfaction ratings are constantly much better than those of the cable companies.
He can become a lobbyist for the cable industry, since he's as anti-FTTH as they are. | |
|
|
hmmWell he is kinda right. verizon did announce no more fios rollout . | |
|
| ••••• |
JoeOnSunsetDoublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood. Premium Member join:2002-11-25 Ormond Beach, FL |
blah blah fiosNeither here nor there, but, could this guy have a douchier photo? | |
|
| |
Re: blah blah fiossaid by JoeOnSunset:Neither here nor there, but, could this guy have a douchier photo? Looks like Eric Cantor. | |
|
|
Anonyname
Anon
2010-Jul-7 12:18 pm
Which way do we goMy brother lives in Delmar which is one of the few areas of upstate NY where FIOS is run. As I was visiting one day I looked at the lines running along the poles between his and his neighbors house and asked why he didn't subscribe to Verizons fiber solution (being that he was complaining about his cable modem woes with Road Runner). He told me that he never even heard of it and so I told him all about it. He called up but they told him it wasn't available to him. I told him that is that were true, why does your neighbor have it? After he explained that to them, they sent someone out to set him up and he hasn't been happier with his internet connection. I only wish they offered it in the Clifton Park / Halfmoon region. My internet connection is fine with Road Runner (albeit slow at times), but the HD channels almost always seem to get pixilated. Of course they don't offer tv in upstate NY yet either so I guess it is a wash for now. A number of the people I talked to that could get FIOS said they weren't going to consider it until they could get TV service as well. | |
|
Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 2 edits
1 recommendation |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 12:32 pm
This is why ST capital gains taxes need to go WAY upShort term capital gains taxes need to be so high that investors can't go in and demand the decimation of a company like a bunch of piraña for short term profits.
Short term capital gains taxes should be 80%+ and long term should be more than just 1 year. Perhaps have a mid term rate with long term being at least 5 years.
All investors should have a vested interest in long term economic viability and success of the company they are investing in. | |
|
| •••••••••••••••••••• |
Vamp9190 Premium Member join:2002-02-11 Chantilly, VA
1 recommendation |
Vamp9190
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 1:00 pm
This is not newsDSLR keeps reporting on this moron, and it isn't even news. Who cares what some analyst is saying about FiOS, it's just made-up fluff so that he can sell more stock to poor saps that will probably lose money while he makes big commissions. If you keep putting this guy in the news, he gets exposure, so stop! | |
|
| |
Re: This is not newsABSOLUTELY | |
|
neftv join:2000-10-01 Broomall, PA |
neftv
Member
2010-Jul-7 1:21 pm
American outdated traditional corp structure.I wanted to make a more general comment that as long as there is an outdated traditional corp structure, (boardroom, stockholders) and yes Unions this country will never be the best it can be. There are so many matters that involve the government too. Right now I think "We the people" are just a bunch of chumps in this country with mediocre services and goods many of which are not even made in this country. | |
|
| |
Re: American outdated traditional corp structure.said by neftv:I wanted to make a more general comment that as long as there is an outdated traditional corp structure, (boardroom, stockholders) and yes Unions this country will never be the best it can be. There are so many matters that involve the government too. Right now I think "We the people" are just a bunch of chumps in this country with mediocre services and goods many of which are not even made in this country. Your hate for unions is completely illogical. Unions were the reason the US middle class prospered post WWII, and their loss of power post 1980 is why the gap between rich and poor has been increasing over the last 30 years. | |
|
| | neftv join:2000-10-01 Broomall, PA |
neftv
Member
2010-Jul-9 8:56 am
Re: American outdated traditional corp structure.Great another one. I never said the word hate. It's always amazing as soon as the word outdated and unions are mentioned in the same sentence right away your labeled a hater. There is a bigger picture involving the government that is failed to be realized by unions. I will never understand why unions like the establishment career politicians when they say the endorse someone. Between the taxes of doing business in this country, government getting bigger and more involved with our everyday lives and the unions blaming management for everything that just ends up adding that cost to the product/service with no real solution to the gap that has happened. Another thing is I don't get why I see unions strike in this economy now like I seen teachers and hospitals strike with in the past year. They should be so lucky to have a job now and they expect their health care to be paid for completely. I was in a union in my first job I ever had. I still to this day don't know why I was paying 35/month for to the union. When I was laid off along with the whole department I worked for I was told by the union awwww can't help you sorry you'll just have to find another job now. I probably won't ever know exactly the feeling of the people in Flint Michigan when GM decided to go to Mexico. Yea blame management for that but that not going to solve the issue with that outdated thinking. There is a bigger picture a side for blaming management (which that structure is outdated too). | |
|
jca2050 Premium Member join:2002-02-04 Dallas, TX |
jca2050
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 1:26 pm
HmmI think he's just bitter they didn't deploy FiOS in his area and he's stuck with crap DSL :P | |
|
pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
1 recommendation |
pnh102
Premium Member
2010-Jul-7 1:32 pm
SillyWe have a working example of what would have happened to Verizon had it not gone the FIOS route.
It is called Qwest. | |
|
|
Am I the only one...that looks at his photo and gets an irresistible urge to punch him squarely in the nose??? | |
|
| 1 edit |
Re: Am I the only one...said by jhboricua:that looks at his photo and gets an irresistible urge to punch him squarely in the nose??? No, I feel the same way. | |
|
|
| |
Re: Market Analysts are Killing USAThat's the best idea I've heard all year! Kudos to you! | |
|
| |
to WiseOldBear
Don't let Iraq feel left out, split them 50/50. | |
|
|
Corporate Douchbaggery! Mr. Moffett may be demonstrating a form corporate douchbaggery. Mommy I want it now. He apparently wants instant return on investment. He forgets that in the good old days of electromechanical central offices the deprecation cycle was 40 Years. In the early 80's some baby bells mothballed their electromechanical central offices and continued to deprecate them on the 40 year cycle, while replacing them with digital central offices because the maintenance cost on a digital C.O. is so low. On the other hand he may have something because most hardware and software become technologically obsolete long before they wear out. | |
|
| |
Re: Corporate Douchbaggery!said by Mr Matt: Mr. Moffett may be demonstrating a form corporate douchbaggery. Mommy I want it now. He apparently wants instant return on investment. A lot of people who came of age in the 1980's have this same instant gratification (almost spoiled brat) philosophy. Not all of the generation, not all, but many.... | |
|
|
|