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Frontier CEO Downplays Company's Tactical Speed Disadvantage
As company's landline losses accelerate

Frontier's second quarter earnings indicate that the company's loss of tranditional copper-based landline customers is actually accelerating, the company now seeing an 8% decline in landline users since the second quarter of last year. Given their massive deal to acquire unwanted Verizon DSL and landline networks didn't officially close until the end of the quarter, these latest earnings don't reflect the deal. While Frontier's reliance on last-gen DSL leaves them at a competitive disadvantage, CEO Maggie Wilderotter obviously downplayed this problem during a conference call with analysts and the media. From the transcript:

quote:
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We expect to positively impact our high-speed business through increasing the availability of higher speed tiers with a focus on three meg to six meg. I want to add that we offer 20 megs service in many markets today, and industry equipment providers are now testing 300 megabits per second DSL services. Our customers and networks have a fast future.
Except they don't.

The 20 Mbps service is apparently a hallucination on Wilderotter's part. The fastest speed Frontier currently offers is 10 Mbps downstream and 1 Mbps upstream, and while the CEO insists this tier exists in "many" markets, it's actually only deployed to a small fraction of Frontier's total footprint. Meanwhile, the 300 Mbps DSL Wilderotter mentions is so far just Alcatel Lucent lab work that may or may not ever see real-world deployment.

In the real world, the vast majority of Frontier customers don't see more than 3 Mbps, and in some instances Frontier struggles to provide that. Meanwhile, a lack of real competition in most Frontier markets -- combined with the added debt and expansion obligations from their Verizon deal -- means most users won't be seeing faster speeds anytime soon. So yes, Frontier customers have a "fast future," so long as you think 3 Mbps is fast.
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hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

SpinCo?

Is SunCo the name of the former VZ customers?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: SpinCo?

Verizon named their spun off unwanted assets SpinCo briefly before fusing them with Frontier using their Reverse Morris Trust tax dodge approach.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: SpinCo?

ahhh..okay..i didn't know they spun them off before selling them.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: SpinCo?

said by hottboiinnc4:

ahhh..okay..i didn't know they spun them off before selling them.
It's part of how a Reverse Morris Trust works. By spinning it off, then merging the spun off company with the target company, the selling company and investors receive tax advantages. The debt that gets spun off with the company then becomes the target companies problem, not Verizon in this case.

SpinCo or some form of that was also used by Verizon for the Fairpoint deal, as well as other companies as a holding company during similar deals.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT

Member

Re: SpinCo?

quote:
Meanwhile, a lack of real competition in most Frontier markets...
If they have no competition, then how can their speeds be a "tactical disadvantage"? If a customer cannot get any broadband from any other source, then 3 Mbps from Frontier will seem great.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

20 Mbps?

Are they counting Frontier FiOS customers in that number? Because I only know of 10 Mbps over DSL, as far as Frontier goes. Though in most places people will be stuck with 3 Mbps, which in all fairness is better than spotty 3G service, satellite or dialup...but still far from great.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: 20 Mbps?

Much of the network in the Midwest that Frontier got from VZ was upgraded well beyond that 3Meg profile. Much of it is 7.1. It's just a matter of working to get the lines to support much more. But Frontier will be busy working on expanding DSL but they have to worry about keeping the debt down.

But as i've said many times. They just need to start deploying some sort of wireless network either for just Internet and or replace their entire network with it.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: 20 Mbps?

Wireless has finite capacity and Frontier doesn't own any licensed frequencies of which I'm aware. If they can sink enough money into their wireline service they can keep customers around with decent-speed packages. Bonded ADSL2+ on lines that Verizon had provisioned for 7.1 service could get Frontier up to 15/2, comparable to or better than many cable companies are willing to provide in their footprint.

AMDUSER
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join:2003-05-28
Earth,
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AMDUSER to hottboiinnc4

Premium Member

to hottboiinnc4
Quite a bit of the Midwest is upgraded to the 7.1 meg.. unfortunately for them Charter is also in the areas [WI / MI / IL/IN].
-That, and Charter has an advantage Frontier does not, if you can get cable, you can get HSI. Charters [8 Meg /1Meg] is available at every house capable of getting cable tv in their service areas.

In the areas Charter does not serve, Comcast, RCN and other cable providers are more than happy to provide faster than 7.1 Meg.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: 20 Mbps?

RCN? They cover how much of the Midwest? Chicago? Not even a talking point with them.

the fact is Frontier needs to focus on getting out of the wired market and start working on taking their network wirelessly in order to really compete.

Maybe a deal with Clear in their markets?
rifleman69
join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR

rifleman69 to iansltx

Member

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

Are they counting Frontier FiOS customers in that number? Because I only know of 10 Mbps over DSL, as far as Frontier goes. Though in most places people will be stuck with 3 Mbps, which in all fairness is better than spotty 3G service, satellite or dialup...but still far from great.
Nope, they aren't counting FiOS since we weren't a part of Frontier until the third quarter.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
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join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·Consolidated Com..

spewak

Premium Member

Wilderotter

You know how we know she is feeding us a line of BS don't you? That's right, her lips are moving. Have you heard the new Radio spots Frontier is running? Some jagoff explaining how we should have a conversation about Frontier and how great they are in what they do. What a joke of a company. When she gets fired, is when I will celebrate.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Wilderotter

be glad they're willing to service their customers and the former VZ customers. They could just up and drop you as well and leave your areas to rot. But it was okay for VZ to do that to the GTE areas they got rid of but it's not okay for Fairpoint to try and make them better.

acadiel
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acadiel

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Can't really complain...

I've been trying to get Verizon to give me 7M for years (I'm only 4600 feet away). Prior to Frontier, I was only able to get 3M because the big V only had me in their system as capable of getting 3M. (However, I could get 7M with a CLEC, ironically.)

In comes Frontier, and a few emails/phone calls, and bam - I have 7M on one of those $55 Frontier phone/Internet bundles.

Can't really complain at this point - they've been awesome.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

and like i've been saying; people just need to give them a chance. They're not as bad as people make them out to be. Customer's should be glad that they have someone willing to service them and offer them services such as the 7Meg packages when VZ was only doing 3Meg at the same address.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
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morbo

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Re: Can't really complain...

said by hottboiinnc4:

and like i've been saying; people just need to give them a chance. They're not as bad as people make them out to be.
The problem is that their business model and therefore their company is doomed. "landline losses accelerating" is from the news blurb. That's bad news.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

LMAO! how can you claim their business model is doomed?!? what are these people in rural areas use for phone service if they can't get anything else or nobody wishes to serve them?

They've actually added landlines if you would have read what was typed. BUt you're just another one of those people that claim they're going to fail.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
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morbo

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

You cannot deny that landlines are dying. Look up the trends.

acadiel
Press fire to begin
Premium Member
join:2002-06-22
Atlanta

acadiel

Premium Member

Re: Can't really complain...

Paging is dying too, but I still have a pager.

Yeah, I'm a dinosaur.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

i know many, well known hospitals that still use them. Not including fire departments (large and small), EMS companies (public and private) and many other public employees.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
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join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·Consolidated Com..

1 recommendation

spewak to hottboiinnc4

Premium Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

and like i've been saying; people just need to give them a chance. They're not as bad as people make them out to be. Customer's should be glad that they have someone willing to service them and offer them services such as the 7Meg packages when VZ was only doing 3Meg at the same address.
I was a customer of Frontier's. For a very long and slow 7 years, until Fiber was laid and I jumped all over that. And yes, we must agree to disagree hotbo, they are as BAD as people make them out to be. They do not reinvest in their infrastructure, they only take the slow road as far as speeds. As far as that 7meg package, it will only last a few months before the latency and attenuation take hold and Frontier knocks his speed down. Just wait. It is one of Frontiers' favorite tricks.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

maybe in CA they don't but they do in Ohio. So you can't talk for all of their customers. Just for what you've experienced. So that's the point.

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

how much stock in frontier do you have? They are having so many problems in west virginia that the state is going to reconsider approving the sale in the state. Lots of people are going to charleston to ask that they revoke frontier's license to serve the state.

acadiel
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acadiel

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Re: Can't really complain...

said by mikedz4:

how much stock in frontier do you have? They are having so many problems in west virginia that the state is going to reconsider approving the sale in the state. Lots of people are going to charleston to ask that they revoke frontier's license to serve the state.
Nada.

They do have quite a challenge in WVa.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to mikedz4

Member

to mikedz4
i don't but good luck on reversing that. What happens if they do? VZ will just pull out and that will be the end of it. SpinCo will still be there and VZ won't provide SHIT. But lets keep in mind that if WVZ pulls frontier out. the Network Assets go to! OOPS! I bet you didn't think about that?

WVA has nothing but a bunch of complaing bitches that live there. They complain that VZ doesn't want to put any more $$$ into the network. Frontier comes in. Only has been in business there for a MONTH and they're still bitching!

Smokey99
join:2004-06-25
Huntington, WV

Smokey99

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

I love generalizations that only serve to point out the ignorance of the individual(s) who use them.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

no it's not ignorance. It's people like you bitching that don't give a damn what happens to the companies that service your area as long as you have something to bitch about. That's the fact at hand. Frontier comes along and has only had the service in their hands for a month now. And you think everything will move over and be all roses right at that second. But yet, you were also on here bitching about how VZ never maintained anything the service there was going to shit. And the Unions did it too. But yet now you come on here and are still bitching, the unions are bitching cause they're actually being MADE to work to get the services back up to where they should, yet you want them kicked out of the state? WTF!

Are you ever going to be happy? Wait. Let me answer that, NOPE! You nor will anyone else be happy until the state kicks them out and Frontier will then pull their equipment (which it does NOW belong to them NOT the state), and leaves you all in the dark. And yes, Phone companies can do that. It's a loop whole in the PUC laws that each state has. Go look it up.

Smokey99
join:2004-06-25
Huntington, WV

Smokey99

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

The more you type the more you prove my point. I'll try to state this as simple as I can.

1 - I've never complained about Verizon or Frontier

2 - The majority of West Virginians haven't (the unions have a way of overstating things)

3 - I have never complained about the service Verizon offered, as I was a customer of theirs for years and never had a problem.

BTW -- I'm not sure what a loop WHOLE is, can you elaborate? I would love to research the loop WHOLE regulations of the PSC, but I don't know where to start
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

I'm gonna stop replying to you only because you've proved my point. You claim "people are going to charleston to complain" the state is considering reversing the rulling to allow them to take over VZ. But yet you claim never to say anything like that.

So yah you've proved my point. Another person that just wants to bitch either way. Another company to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

And are you a grammar snob much?

Smokey99
join:2004-06-25
Huntington, WV

Smokey99

Member

Re: Can't really complain...

I again will state for you (though I that I was very clear in my previous post) I have never complained about Verizon or Frontier, not do I support the unions. I don't mind if you quote me, but please do it accurately. I never wrote the quote you included in you most recent post.

To answer your pseudo-question; I am not a grammar snob, I don't even know what a grammar snob is. However, I do believe in using good grammar.

Eagles1221
join:2009-04-29
Vincentown, NJ

Eagles1221

Member

The offer 20-40 mbits

Only if you're in the Frontier Cybercenter in Rochester leasing rackspace

I wonder if they are using the inherited VZ FiOS for that claim.

Honestly, I would rather see them lower prices than increase speed. Around here (podunk) all you can get is 384/3Mbit DSL for 49.99 or 39.99 128/1024 DSL.

I'd rather take the 19.99 for 128/1024 than pay 99.99 for 1/10 mbit.

Their backhaul capacity sucks. They are the only game in town in some places.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Frontier DSL Rates Outrageous!

A friend of mine lives in Middletown, New York. The local telephone company is Frontier. When I suggested he check the rates for DSL Service, the rates quoted were outrageous. Frontier charges $39.95 per month for 768K Down. I thought they might have the same rate structure as CenturyLink formerly Embarq has here in Central Florida with 768K at $14.95 per month and 1.5 Mbps at $19.95 per month, if the customer subscribes to voice service. That deal is certainly better than using dial up, on the other hand Frontier's outrageous rates are a perfect example of what is wrong with broadband deployment in the United States.

•••

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben

Premium Member

"Fast Future?" I'll believe it when I see it.

We expect to positively impact our high-speed business through increasing the availability of higher speed tiers with a focus on three meg to six meg. I want to add that we offer 20 megs service in many markets today, and industry equipment providers are now testing 300 megabits per second DSL services. Our customers and networks have a fast future.
     That's all good and well, except for a couple things.

     First of all, they need to do it, and SOON.  Either increase the speeds, or reduce the prices to compete that way.

     Second, increase the speeds how?  With what money?  There's so much debt that I don't see how they can ever afford to do that soon.

     So basically, I think it's going to be business as usual for the former Verizon customers.  I wouldn't be surprised if 3Mbps or 7.1Mbps DSL is the best they can get 10 years later.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: "Fast Future?" I'll believe it when I see it.

Again, as I've said before. Another person on here that doesn't care about anything but the speeds they get or that a company can and should offer. Frontier Customers should be glad that someone is willing to offer them services regardless of the company. Why would they want to stay with a company that doesn't do a damn thing because they're worried about their FiOS customer base and how to get more to sign up.