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Verizon 15 Mbps Could Be 'Last Copper Upgrade'
Notes FTTH upgrade still makes more financial sense than VDSL

Yesterday we reported Verizon is now offering 15 Mbps ADS2+ service to about 4 million of their DSL customers. The new 15/1 Mbps tier costs $50 for users who bundle Verizon voice service, or $60 standalone. Light Reading's Carol Wilson offers additional technical detail, including the fact the faster speeds are being offered at customer central offices already equipped with Alcatel-Lucent or Adtran ATM Subscriber Access Multiplexers that can support ADSL 2+. Verizon's John Schommer puts it rather bluntly:

quote:
"If we knew we had the proper type of equipment to support higher speeds, we turned it up," Schommer says. "Through the end of the year, we are investing a little bit in some preferred locations. But compared to the investment in FiOS, this is a very small amount of money being spent on DSL." This could be the last copper upgrade, unless something new comes along, he adds. "You never say never," Schommer says. "Every time before, when we thought we were at the end of the road, we found something else."
It's not entirely clear where Verizon plans to go from here. The company says they won't be upgrading these users to VDSL, because the costs of building out fiber nodes closer to the customer "aren't favorable versus a complete fiber build." That of course is in contrast to the position held by AT&T, who recently insisted they still believe their decision to nurse copper and use more bandwidth-constrained VDSL was the more prudent option.

Meanwhile, Verizon's stated "complete fiber build" has been put on hold with the exception of large cities locked into franchise agreements (NYC, Pittsburgh, DC) with no statement from Verizon on when they'll be restarted.
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

wow

So basically if you are like me in a suburb of nyc but not in nyc and dont get verizon dsl or fios but in verizon territory you are screwed. I find it funny that cablevision thinks i am important enough to get internet service but verizon doesnt.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: wow

It's likely that your municipality's franchise agreement with Cablevision is to be thanked for your service coverage.
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

Re: wow

Nope just the area. Other people a couple of blocks away get fios.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: wow

I was referring to the claim that Cablevision cares about your neighborhood.

bobgwen
join:2001-07-07
Bartow, FL

bobgwen to majortom1029

Member

to majortom1029
said by majortom1029:

So basically if you are like me in a suburb of nyc but not in nyc and dont get verizon dsl or fios but in verizon territory you are screwed. I find it funny that cablevision thinks i am important enough to get internet service but verizon doesnt.
Hey, same situation here in Bartow Florida. Verizon territory but no dsl and I doubt if we will ever see fios. Have to rely on Comcast

mikesterr
join:2008-04-18
Sanford, FL

mikesterr

Member

were all so impatient

I guess we forget how long Cable took to build out their system. I remember growing up in South Jersey and it took years before cable was in our area and even when it was there it didn't have all the channels and features others had. then when the Cable Co's started selling internet it was years before that was available in our area. Now the difference was that there were a lot of small cable companies all doing the work at once all spending the money to upgrade so deployment was happening simultaneously in lots of regions. Now we have just a few players and Verizon is upgrading but its going to take a lot longer then we all would like. I'm glad I moved into a Fios area.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: were all so impatient

said by mikesterr:

I guess we forget how long Cable took to build out their system.
Or how long it took to build out initial dialtone to everyone after being mandated to do so.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

hottboiinnc4 to mikesterr

Member

to mikesterr
the VZ FiOS upgrade won't happen for the areas that are not on the list or are still being upgraded to faster DSL speeds. Those areas will always have copper from VZ until they're sold off or until VZ sees a real threat moving in. Not until then will they ever see anything else. VZ couldn't careless than what they do about their cutomers and only care about that bottom line moving in. When WiMax moves into more markets (especially NY) VZ is going to have a a shit load of disconnects for internet when all those customers move over to Clear/Sprint. And that will be the perfect time for Cablevision to move into being a reseller/wholesale provider and going national with their customers for coverage

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium Member
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA

rawgerz

Premium Member

Re: were all so impatient

said by hottboiinnc4:

Those areas will always have copper from VZ until they're sold off or until VZ sees a real threat moving in. Not until then will they ever see anything else.
I thought that was what cable has been doing to them for the last decade?

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH to mikesterr

Premium Member

to mikesterr
Heck, I live less than 19 miles from Billy Penn's hat in center city Philly, I couldn't get cable until 1993 or so.

And you're right, it was a bunch of smaller companies doing build outs. Around here it was Subruban Cable.

We were fortunate that we were one of the first people in our area to be able to get HSI via cable long before we could DSL. This was just as broadband was starting to get bigger (1998/99) We're on the very outer regions of my CO.

About 4 or 5 years ago, Verizon installed a RT down the street and I have DSL for a while. Now I have Fios.
ssavoy
Premium Member
join:2007-08-16
Dallas, PA

ssavoy

Premium Member

15/1 for $50?

That's not that bad of a deal, considering I'm paying the same for 2.5/300k.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

What else are they going to say?

"We're screwed because we don't have the money to build out FTTH any more, nor do we have to money to do FTTN/VDSL like AT&T did because we spent it all on FTTH."

Yeah, I don't think so.

I think they're probably de-prioritizing the wired/home investment completely and ramping up wireless investment.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: What else are they going to say?

said by MyDogHsFleas:

I think they're probably de-prioritizing the wired/home investment completely and ramping up wireless investment.
Yes, I have no doubt that wireless is the future that will generate the revenue to keep growing. How long until we start asking the question of "have you cut your cable yet" only in the context of your fixed wireline connection to the Internet instead of pay TV and/or voice communication?

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: What else are they going to say?

said by openbox9:

said by MyDogHsFleas:

I think they're probably de-prioritizing the wired/home investment completely and ramping up wireless investment.
Yes, I have no doubt that wireless is the future that will generate the revenue to keep growing. How long until we start asking the question of "have you cut your cable yet" only in the context of your fixed wireline connection to the Internet instead of pay TV and/or voice communication?
The only problem with wireless is that you only have so much spectrum. Even if the govt takes away all of it from TV and others, there still won't be enough for future projected growth.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: What else are they going to say?

I understand spectrum limitations, however I'd still expect to see focus remain on wireless access to the Internet over the next several years. A lot of engineering room still exists to make wireless communications networks more efficient.

MIABye
Premium Member
join:2001-10-28
united state

MIABye to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine
That's why we need these companies to invent sub-space communications. I want to be able to play WoW outside of our solar system with no latency. Why? Because it'd be so cool.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

1 recommendation

patcat88 to MyDogHsFleas

Member

to MyDogHsFleas
You have to realize that this "ADSL2" equipment has been installed since the early 2000s, or since day 1 for some areas. The DSLAM manufacturers stopped making ADSL1 equipment a long time ago, everything they make comes with ADSL2 now. The only reason Verizon didn't make the faster speeds available is to preserve the value of their T1 cash cow and "consistence"

»Re: Does anyone get DSL at 20,100ft without a RT?
»Re: DSL Bandwidth - 1.5mbps or 3mbps?
»Re: ADSL2+
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to MyDogHsFleas

Member

to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:

"We're screwed because we don't have the money to build out FTTH any more, nor do we have to money to do FTTN/VDSL like AT&T did because we spent it all on FTTH."

Yeah, I don't think so.

I think they're probably de-prioritizing the wired/home investment completely and ramping up wireless investment.
They have plenty of money in the bank. Plenty. Of. Money.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

aaronwt

Premium Member

That sounds good for DSL.

I wish I could convince my girlfriend to get this instead of the 1mbs DSL she currently has. And she even has FiOS available but will only stick with her 1mbs DSL.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: That sounds good for DSL.

I don't know what you and your girlfriend like, but have you considered watching adult movies with her? she should quicly notice how ugly choppy videos are over 1 mb especially during romantic evening. seriously all what she does is web browsing? no netflix?

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

1 edit

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: That sounds good for DSL.

said by chgo_man99:

I don't know what you and your girlfriend like, but have you considered watching adult movies with her? she should quicly notice how ugly choppy videos are over 1 mb especially during romantic evening. seriously all what she does is web browsing? no netflix?
Netflix works at 1mbs, but it's only SD
.
It's just frustrating going from my FiOS 35/35 to her DSL 1mbs/384kbs when I go over to her house.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: That sounds good for DSL.

What does she pay for her DSL connection in comparison to your FiOS connection? I don't know your gf, but is that the driving reason? It probably would be for me.
Expand your moderator at work

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

1 edit

Smith6612 to aaronwt

MVM

to aaronwt

Re: That sounds good for DSL.

If you'd like to be sneaky, if she visits YouTube a lot I suggest sneaking a Greasemonkey Script by the name of "YouTube HD Suite" into all of her web browsers. Obviously hide the script so that she doesn't know it's working, sit back, and watch as she realizes how bad her connection is . Maybe THEN she will get FiOS.

roc5955
Premium Member
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY

roc5955

Premium Member

That's better than what I get from...

Rat.. I mean Road Runner. If that's what the copper will allow, than that's it. I still think that they will eventually squeeze more out of copper though.
Yezidi
join:2009-11-17
New York, NY

Yezidi

Member

15 down is unicorns

This is tempting but, seriously, why do they offer stuff most of us will never see? You get all worked up, call customer service, sit through horrible music only to be told they've never heard of it or your area isn't one of the lucky ones. Pfffft. Oh well, back to almost 3 down...

Irun Man
Premium Member
join:2002-10-18
Millsboro, DE

Irun Man

Premium Member

It could be worse...

I'm surrounded by Verizon FiOS territory, stuck in the middle of Frontier land with 3MB DSL and NO HOPE of fiber connectivity from that telco... EVER. I refuse to overpay for Road Runner's DOCSIS 1.1 crap so I'm roughing it out on their basic 1.5MB service.

Wireless IS the future for data. If Virgin Mobile has a decent signal here I just might jump over to their $40/month unlimited deal and kick Time Warner Cable to the curb.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: It could be worse...

just wait for those areas to become Frontier as well. VZ isn't going to keep their copper network much longer. I give them about another 4-5 years and what ever isn't FiOS they'll sell off to someone else and keep building out their (still in the lab) LTE.

And as far as VM why not check the Sprint Coverage Map. It does street level mapping for signal. VM is a Sprint company.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to Irun Man

Member

to Irun Man
FIOS where? Hudson Valley doesn't have FIOS except for Newburg AFAIK.

Irun Man
Premium Member
join:2002-10-18
Millsboro, DE

Irun Man

Premium Member

Re: It could be worse...

said by patcat88:

FIOS where? Hudson Valley doesn't have FIOS except for Newburg AFAIK.
MIL has it in the Village of Fishkill; her nephew has FiOS outside the Dutchess County airport. It's supposed to be rolling out to the City of Beacon and surrounding Town of Fishkill soon.

mking128
join:2005-08-10
Whitestone, NY

1 edit

mking128

Member

For real, nah not a chance for the other 70m VZ subscribers

VZ's fios deployment in NYC is selective even within specific zip codes and city blocks, and if you are far from the CO - keep waiting for fios (2014, eventually will come)

Now, if VZ is having trouble delivering the basic speed or lower tiers, whether it's 1.5/384 or 3.0/768 - never mind the sometimes/often/mostly & really just above dial-up speed plan of barely up to 768/128 or 1.0/128 that's basically useless these days except to do text-based email (seriously) - at many locales, I have zero, no confidence whatsoever that VZ will deliver and meet its promised speed for those 4 million qualified customer base in selective CO sites.

That leaves, oh, what .... hmm, about 70+ million out in the 20th century infrastructure over copper.

Can't wait to see what the next round of cable HSI ads will look like but my feeling is the Madison Ave. is going to have lots of creative fun on spinning their own PR & marketing to challenge Big Red.

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben

Premium Member

I'm Still Pleasantly Surprised

     Frankly, I thought that they would never upgrade anywhere to another DSL based technology.

     Of course, this just had to come after they dumped all of those areas to Frontier (including where my parents live).  Now those areas are extremely unlikely to get any kind of upgrade at all.

     On a different note, how about actual DSL roll-outs?  In the last five years, has there been even one address that can now get DSL, that couldn't five years ago?  So far it seems that basically, if you can't get it now, you'll never be able to get it.  Then again, I've always lived in a Verizon (now Frontier) or AT&T (formerly SBC) area.

••••

treich
join:2006-12-12

treich

Member

Verizon/Froniter BS

I say this is BS because they know they are losing in this business due to smaller telco's are offering FTTH/FTTP/FTTN to customers or that cable companys are upgrading to DOCSIS 3.0 for higher speeds. So Verizon/Frontier nice try but your going to lose on this battle.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 recommendation

fifty nine

Member

Verizon will sell off?

Looks like Verizon will sell off areas that just aren't profitable enough for FiOS. If this is the last copper upgrade, and you haven't gotten FiOS, better start learning to write "frontier" on your checks to the phone company now.

••••••

sniperboyz
join:2009-10-30
Portsmouth, VA
Technicolor CGM4331
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Ubiquiti U6-Pro

1 edit

sniperboyz

Member

Wow... You need add 5mbps on upload.

I'd make the Tier for you,
First Tier: 15mbps/5mbps
Second Tier: 20mbps/10mbps
Third Tier: 25mbps/15mbps

I seen the VDSL2 maximum speed is 52mbps/16mbps. So we currently using Cox 20/2 (powerboost: 50mbps/10mbps+.) I hate slow upload but it is okay for me for 5mbps or above.....
FiOS still NOT available in Portsmouth, VA area... If anyone live in Portsmouth and FiOS not available but if ya'all interesting FiOS then call FiOS and make the Fiber Optics in Portsmouth Area RIGHT NOW!!!!! What's such a lazy verizon can't build right now. Come on Verizon FiOS, Please give us FiOS we are interested in your Fiber Optics....

Here is our speed

runzero
join:2005-09-16
DC

runzero

Member

Re: Wow... You need add 5mbps on upload.

Just did a quick search on Portsmouth and it shows a high poverty rate and rather low average income. Not the ideal place for Verizon to build out a premium service.

Don't hold your breath.

sniperboyz
join:2009-10-30
Portsmouth, VA

sniperboyz

Member

Re: Wow... You need add 5mbps on upload.

I know. Chesapeake and Va Beach has FiOS. We live near Chesapeake.
NJ_Ray
join:2005-02-11
Dunellen, NJ

NJ_Ray

Member

DSL, still?

VZ still is pushing DSL here in my part of NJ. The service they give on that copper though, is just terrible. Lines a few blocks away, and my phone had static. My next door neighbors, had no phones for days, had internet though, on a separate drop. Things like that are quite common place, at least in my neighborhood. How the heck are they expecting people to even consider that sort of offering?

NyQuil Kid
8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ

NyQuil Kid

Member

How can I get this?

Is this offering something I can inquire about with Verizon, or would Verizon be contacting selected customers?

[8F] The NyQuil Kid
Wiley3
join:2010-09-05
Los Angeles, CA

Wiley3

Member

Some interesting Verizon revelations.

Here is something interesting.

I was recently forced to switched from DSL to cable and I'll tell you why in a minute.

I had been a Verizon DSL user for over 6 years. As I started to rely on my cellphone more than my landline, I started to become a bit irked that I had to pay $40 a month for the land line just to keep the DSL, which was another $40. The cable company was able to offer me a cheaper, more extensive phone plan, and I had heard that the phone companies had to, by law, offer "naked DSL" now. I had called Verizon to confirm that I could get "naked DSL" also called a dry loop, and they said I could. So I signed up for a cable phone and had my phone number ported over to the cable company.

When I called Verizon to ask them to cancel my phone account and switch my DSL over to a dry loop plan, they told me they couldn't do it. I was a little confused about this because the DSL at the time was still working, and since the line no longer had a number assigned to it, it WAS a dry loop, and I pointed this out to them. Eventually I was transfered to billing. Apparently the people in Verizon's billing department know the answer to everything...trust me on this.

I was told that they could not transfer my account to a dry loop billing plan because there was no option to do it in the system. I was further informed that they actually no longer offer DSL in may area at all. They were just allowing existing customers to keep it.

When I asked why, I was by the rep.. "I don't know when it's going to happen, but in your area we will eventually start converting the system to FIOS and will only be offering FIOS service."

Other reps I spoke to knew nothing about it.

But I was forced to convert to cable because in their system they could not put me on a dry loop billing plan and the DSL would "magically" stop working without a number on the line, they assumed, or as the legend goes...I don't know how that works. I'm curious how it will actually go down, but I don't want to be stuck with a big bill for anything so I'm not going to stick around and find out. So I called the cable company and asked them to switch on the internet.

Once I completely cancel my Verizon account, I won't be able to go back to DSL.

I have to say, I'm kind of hesitant to make the call because I've not yet sorted out why the cable connection drops so frequently, and the DSL gets a connection faster when I first connect, and seems smoother in general, but I have no choice unless I want to port the phone number back to Verizon and pay $80 a month for phone + internet.