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Clearwire Unclear About Customer Throttling
Many users still confused about Clear's definitions of "unlimited," "excessive"

Last week we reported how a growing number of Clearwire wireless customers say they're having their home connections throttled back significantly -- often to as slow as 256 kbps -- for excessive use. While network management is expected on a wireless network, the problem is that Clearwire isn't being clear about what triggers this throttling, and based on user comments in our forums, customers are being told different things depending on which Clearwire support agent they talk to.

Some users in the Clear forums say they're being told the usage cap is eight gigabytes a month, after which you're throttled back to a fraction of your speed for the remainder of your billing cycle. Some users in our forums are being told they should keep their usage to between 500 MB and 1 GB per day, while at the same time being told there's no way to really tell when the local tower will be congested and throttling will occur.

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"Clearwire maintains a "hands off" approach to managing our network," Clearwire spokesman Mike DiGioia tells Broadband Reports, insisting that "we only manage the network to the extent that we have congestion problems," and that the company does not have caps per customer.

"If we experience network congestion, we are committed to dealing with everyone fairly and we do not target specific applications," says DiGioia. "The heaviest of users may give up a small amount of bandwidth so that everybody has a good experience."

That still doesn't clearly explain to consumers how much consumption Clearwire considers to be excessive, and consumers deserve a clear explanation -- especially given Clearwire's comments about insisting that users are free to "browse, download and stream to their hearts content." It harkens back to the days when Comcast used to kick people off their network for using too much bandwidth -- without telling anyone how much was too much.

We asked Clearwire if they could be more specific, and have yet to hear back -- though we'll keep prodding.
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xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

No throttling for me

Have both fixed modem and EVO phone. Do quite a bit a streaming (Netflix/Hulu) and large downloads each week, probably more than 10GB a month with no sign of throttling.

I tend to get about 10Mbps, up to 15.

If Clear is throttling, they need to specifically state what the limit is before throttling.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: No throttling for me

if i were you id be careful on what id ask for/demand from a company that size. You do remember what happened when people demanded a number from Comcast right? They all got one that was WELL below what the regular cap was of about 450 depending on your market.

Clear could give you 4gigs and be done with it.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

2 edits

WernerSchutz

Member

Re: No throttling for me

said by hottboiinnc4:

if i were you id be careful on what id ask for/demand from a company that size. You do remember what happened when people demanded a number from Comcast right? They all got one that was WELL below what the regular cap was of about 450 depending on your market.

Clear could give you 4gigs and be done with it.
450 ? Really ? Must be a really tiny market where that was the upper limit, many were threatened and kicked off for MUCH LOWER numbers. Visit the "abuse/limits" thread and look at the numbers, ok ?

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: No throttling for me

said by WernerSchutz:

said by hottboiinnc4:

if i were you id be careful on what id ask for/demand from a company that size. You do remember what happened when people demanded a number from Comcast right? They all got one that was WELL below what the regular cap was of about 450 depending on your market.

Clear could give you 4gigs and be done with it.
450 ? Really ? Must be a really tiny market where that was the upper limit, many were threatened and kicked off for MUCH LOWER numbers. Visit the "abuse/limits" thread and look at the numbers, ok ?
Sure!

»Warned for exceeding the cap, used 715G last month
»Got the call. We used 610GB on a 50mbit/10mbit d3 connection
»Account cut off at 250G? Correction: 715G
»I got the call ... 680G last month
»Got the call, 850G this month
»Comcast banned me today 2nd warning 680 GB
»I got the call ... 750GB
»Got the call, 750gb last month
»Got the call, 800GB
»Got the warning - 2 TB
»I got call today .. 400 gb last month
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: No throttling for me

thanks! my point proven.

trainwreck6
join:2010-09-21
off track

trainwreck6 to SpaethCo

Member

to SpaethCo
Bandwidth HOGS! "Don't be a Pigg, Hogg!"
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
I'm not on a contract with Clear so can easily switch back to TWC if I need to. But overall I'm getting a better deal with Clear so plan to stick with them unless there is a reason not to.
dustman81
join:2002-05-28
united state

dustman81

Member

Re: No throttling for me

As someone who lives in an area that is supposed to have 4G by year's end and is currently using TWC for broadband, that is good to know.

Do you get a discount for bundling your Sprint cell phone and Clear 4G service?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: No throttling for me

discount with Clear and Sprint 4g? you do realize that Clear and Sprint are separate right? Sprint brands their own 4G network and Clear brands their half as Clear. Sprint doesn't give you a discount.

And the Metro area is set to have service; they never said anything about outside of the Cleveland Metro area. So i wouldn't count on having it if you are far enough away from Cleveland.

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

SysOp to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
xenophon, EVO is with Sprint not Clear.

Your Clear account is not being managed because your usage is less than 8gigs in this billing cycle.
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

qworster

Member

I was ready to get Clear....

Not so sure I will now....
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

1 edit

cramer

Premium Member

Re: I was ready to get Clear....

Clear is in the same box as satellite internet. My recommendation is AVOID where possible.

It's fine for a cellphone or netbook (and maybe laptop) that's moving around a lot and used sporadicly. For a fixed (home) connection, it's far too slow and unstable. One minute it's 6M down, and the next instant it's less than 1. In some areas, people are reporting 10-14M down, peak. I've been carrying around a friend's modem for ~2 weeks and haven't found anywhere that it's stable. Even at my house... 1k ft from a tower, with clear line of sight.

[Edit: and it only gets better when they backhaul everything to Charlotte.]
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: I was ready to get Clear....

your area will differ from others. you can't recommend the product in SF just beecause it sucks for you in NC. It would fully out preform there.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

cramer

Premium Member

Re: I was ready to get Clear....

The problem is systemic. The carrier cannot control the number of nodes connecting to any specific tower. They do have some control over the amount of traffic sent to each node -- which is part of the capping issue. In my tests, the download rate is all over the place, however upload is pretty much a constant 1M (2M if the burst is short enough.)

Draw a 1 mile circle around [this tower] and count the number of houses. This is not a very high density area. There are other sites with significantly higher volumes where this modem gets less than 1M down, and dialup modem speeds up.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: I was ready to get Clear....

again; just because their service doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for someone else outside of your market or even in your market.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

cramer

Premium Member

Re: I was ready to get Clear....

I didn't say it doesn't work. I said it was not recommended (for fixed installations) due to the unstable nature of the medium. This is true of 3G as well. Congestion is ultimately beyond the carrier's control. (vs. wired services... just don't plug any more people in.)

I am in a legacy Clearwire WiMax area -- not their latest highspeed technology. The L2 backhaul half way across the state makes it look even worse.
betam4x
join:2002-10-12
Nashville, TN

betam4x

Member

You don't understand...

Thats what you guys don't seem to understand. Clear has a backbone connection. lets say for arguments sake that it's a T3. 45 mbit/sec. If 100 users are utilizing around 20 mbits total and 3 more users come on and starts a torrent download, those 3 users will be throttled back so they don't interfere with each other or the other users. They just take the top users/abusers and throttle them so that everyone has a more consistent experience.

For this reason, they can't give you limits. Now it's quite clear that if users in certain areas are seeing severe degradation, the backbone needs to get upgraded or maybe more towers need to be put in place.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: You don't understand...

nobody on here cares about that. They just want limits and to bitch after the company gives low ones. The same as they did with Comcast.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz

Member

Re: You don't understand...

said by hottboiinnc4:

nobody on here cares about that. They just want limits and to bitch after the company gives low ones. The same as they did with Comcast.
No, they complain about undisclosed limits and vague statements on purpose.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

AVD

Premium Member

Re: You don't understand...

and also false or at least misleading advertising.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: You don't understand...

and yet people still bitch about the 250gig cap because "its not fair with what we can do", "we can't download our *nix distro XXX number of times this month" and "we can stream NetFlix 24/7 for 30 days straight".

Should i find the posts about everyone on here still bitching about the cap.

And as far as misleading advertising- the "unlimited" was gone well before they started booting people.

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX

sivran

Premium Member

Re: You don't understand...

I'd be happy to tried my as yet uncapped TWC cable connection for the 250GB Comcast one. When Comcast was running the show here, shit was reliable. It's gone to pot ever since they traded my market to TWC. The only good thing TWC's done here is bump up download speeds from 5 to 7Mb, and I don't even really care about that. I'd rather have some upload.

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

1 edit

SysOp to betam4x

Member

to betam4x
Eek2121, no, sir you don't understand that in the Atlanta market all the towers use 800mbps 100% microwave links back to the main switch which is a 1gbps interconnect; which is more than enough capacity.
betam4x
join:2002-10-12
Nashville, TN

betam4x

Member

Re: You don't understand...

said by SysOp:

Eek2121, no, sir you don't understand that in the Atlanta market all the towers use 800mbps 100% microwave links back to the main switch which is a 1gbps interconnect; which is more than enough capacity.
And how do you know that's enough? What about the number of users? keep in mind that a 1 gbps connection can only support 100 users pulling 10 mbit down. If you have 2000-3000 users and 100 of them are maxing out their connections, then the other 1900-2900 users would experience slowness.

grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA

grydlok

Member

Worries me

I just got Clear and I would hate to be in the middle of something and my connection drops.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC

cramer

Premium Member

Surf as much as you want @ 256k

To be fair, you can stream as much crap as you want. All day long, in fact. However, your speed will be all over the map, or flat @256k.

redxii
Mod
join:2001-02-26
Michigan

redxii

Mod

Re: Surf as much as you want @ 256k

You can't stream anything at 256Kbps, a snail has better chance of finishing a 1500 meter run before you can finish one video.

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

4 edits

SysOp

Member

I am being "Managed" aka throttled aka sandbagged

My average usage is 50 gigs per month, over the past 4 months.

No p2p, no servers, just netflix, online radio, youtube, email, VoIP.

Clear just installed a Sandvine traffic management system and I am getting caught in the sand trap:

Day 1 256kbps
Day 2 256kbps
Day 3 256kbps
Day 4 256kbps
Day 5 256kbps
Day 6 1mbps
Day 7 2mbps

redxii
Mod
join:2001-02-26
Michigan
Asus RT-AC3100
Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH2

redxii

Mod

To 256Kbps is not "a small amount of bandwidth"

You're joking right? I get this in the morning:



Clear is saying that that throttling me to .25Mbps is giving up a small amount of bandwidth? SMALL?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: To 256Kbps is not "a small amount of bandwidth"

no where do that say 256Kbps. Also they don't target one user. They tagert them ALL and give them all the same amount of bandwidth to use.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC

cramer to redxii

Premium Member

to redxii
Run that speedtest 10 times in a row. I'm 100% certain you won't see those speeds every time.

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

1 edit

SysOp to redxii

Member

to redxii
Sure, there is a market for 256kbps, it's call AOL 4G

iLive4Fusion
Premium Member
join:2006-07-13

iLive4Fusion

Premium Member

Unlimited Spectrum HA

What happened to everyone saying Oh well Clear is so much better than VZW's LTE will be and wont have any capacity issues?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Unlimited Spectrum HA

Clear has backhaul issues the same issue ATT had and VZ will have when everything is put on their network.

When they put up the new backhaul things will improve. And as far as 256k? Yah.
tdouglas22
join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

tdouglas22

Member

Sounds like they are trying to juggle everyone...

This sounds like traffic management at work. It's not so much that they're targeting anyone specific but they have to do something so that everyone can still access the service and download. Keep in mind that this is a finite system and it too has limits.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

1 edit

patcat88

Member

Where is you god now wimax shills?

Where is you god now wimax shills?

Before when Clear was Clearwire running fixed psuedo-wimax equipment, they throttled P2P with TCP reset injection. Nobody remembers that right? Their throttling language has been in their TOS from before Sprint got involved.

•••
wphutch
join:2007-04-06
Chicago, IL

wphutch

Member

All of a sudden my speed dropped

I test my line at least weekly. I have been getting between 3MB/sec and 4.1 MB/sec. All of a sudden yesterday and today, I ahve been getting 10% of that. There has been no rain or clouds that sometimes cut the speed. I will have to call them in the morning.

HD_fan
@sciencedirect.com

HD_fan

Anon

I'm Being Throttled Right Now!

I've been getting .25-.30mbps for the last 5 days after downloading around 10gb over 3 days (not in one go). Called them and they said I was being "managed". I'm going back to DSL even though I only get 1.5mbps where I am.

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

Ian1

Premium Member

Marketing/Vs. Reality = AntiTrust?

Their sales page still indicates.....

"Usage is unlimited – believe it. You can upload, download, and surf as much as you want for one low price with any of the CLEAR Internet plans. We don’t slow down your connection – the way some Internet providers do – if we think you are using too much bandwidth."

Even if, buried in their TOS, the legalese that nobody reads states otherwise, what they are doing is slowing down someones speeds based on their use. And individual users, based on their use patterns, not tower-wide throttling. In other words "the way some Internet Providers do."

I'm no lawyer, but I think Clear could be setting themselves for for a Class Action suit or Government intervention.

In the modern age of broadband, your business model simply can't be "Sell a service as unlimited broadband to as many people as we can.... Until it is over-subscribed... THEN upgrade the network."

SeattleDave
@clearwire-wmx.net

SeattleDave

Anon

Throttled in Seattle

.38Mb/s Down and .24Mb/s Up since yesterday.
@Clear on Twitter said to me: "Are you still experiencing slow speeds? If so I would recommend calling in to work with a tech rep to resolve this issue. =)"
I'll be giving them a call later today.
SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

SuperWISP

Member

Clearwire HAS to throttle, just like any other ISP.

Remember: there's software out there -- such as BitTorrent -- that's bound and determined to take over the network and will exhaust its resources. Any ISP that doesn't throttle is going to slow to a crawl, have endless complaints from users whose connections are choked off by the bandwidth hogs and pirates, and be financially insolvent. (Figuring this out isn't rocket science; you can work it out on the back of a napkin.) Why did people think that Clear was some sort of exception, just because it has a big hoard of wireless spectrum?

Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium Member
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX

Thespis

Premium Member

Re: Clearwire HAS to throttle, just like any other ISP.

said by SuperWISP:

Any ISP that doesn't throttle is going to slow to a crawl, have endless complaints from users whose connections are choked off by the bandwidth hogs and pirates, and be financially insolvent. (Figuring this out isn't rocket science; you can work it out on the back of a napkin.)
My FIOS connection isn't throttled, doesn't slow to a crawl and almost nobody complains about the service. (Now billing is another matter...)

decepticon
@clearwire-wmx.net

decepticon

Anon

clear are liars

.025-0.05 mbps for me thanks for nothing clear thanks for youre hands off approach.when are yall gonna stop being bi**hes and say something to youre customers other than its like a slice of pie> or we dont target anyone user> or we take a hands off approach> or if youre not happy you can cancel youre youre contract!

portlandcust
@clearwire-wmx.net

portlandcust

Anon

connection has slowed to a crawl

My connection has been slowed to .24mbps for 4 days now. I got three different stories from 3 different tech folks. Apparently the Network Management System is managing my connection. So far, if I leave my modem off for 8 hrs, I can stream 20 minutes of video before my connection is slowed to .24mbps again, and then I turn off my modem for another 8 hrs and repeat.

Not good service, certainly not worth the price.

Kilgorq
@clearwire-wmx.net

Kilgorq

Anon

Re: connection has slowed to a crawl

They have done the same thing to me but it has been 3 weeks now. I never get anything better than 256 and I am not downloading anything. Tech support told me it was due to high traffic and the next one told me my tower was being managed. I am sure the next one will tell me some other bs story. I watch 4 or 5 tv shows a week and test linux software. there is now way i am using more than 4 gigs a month. I probably have not even used 500K this month. I can't I can't even load a page that has any graphics without it timing out. OK fine they want to ruin my Internet connection then let me out of my contract so I can go get another carrier that won't. There customer service sucks. I have heard of about 15 other people in treasure valley Idaho that are having the same issues.