Dish And Fox Latest To Have Ugly Carriage Dispute Customers in the middle again as Fox cuts sports channel access Friday Oct 01 2010 17:01 EDT As broadcasters demand higher carriage fees from cable operators we continue to see uglier and uglier public disputes. As Time Warner Cable did with their "roll over or get tough" campaign, customers are used as a negotiations weapon, intentionally riled up by both sides to fire vitriol and blame at each other. Of course the end result for the consumer is higher rates regardless of who wins, on top of the threat of lost channels as the two sides bicker. The latest feud is between Dish Network and Fox, Fox cutting access to Fox Sports and other Fox channels. In retaliation, Dish has launched seven websites to get consumers riled up. The domains may be slightly different, but the the message is the same: Fox is greedy and Dish is simply here to protect the consumer. "FOX is just another programmer trying to shakedown consumers by demanding double-digit rate increases and additional carriage demands," insists one. "FOX is spending money on scare tactics meant to intimidate DISH Network and our customers," warns another. Ultimately, Fox and Dish will agree to something slightly less than the 50% hike Fox asked for. In the end, all consumers will get is a slightly smaller rate hike and disrupted access to programming. Can we fast forward to the part where broadband-driven Internet video disrupts the TV and broadcast industry status quo, please? |
S_engineer Premium Member join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL |
I think it's funny..when these idiots "launch websites" in retaliation. What a sad spectacle by both. | |
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Fox the scum of everythingSeems like these bastards are not content with the plunder they are already reaping and want to shaft people more. I hope some one shorts them really good | |
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Re: Fox the scum of everythingFSN sucks.
CSN is much better and have some being mostly team owned and controlled helps. To bad comcast other channels like g4 suck.
CSN Chicago is real good and 80% team owned! | |
| | | IowaMan Premium Member join:2008-08-21 Grinnell, IA |
IowaMan
Premium Member
2010-Oct-2 1:49 pm
Re: Fox the scum of everythingAgreed with everything you said espically G4 sucking bad. If it was still TechTV I wouldn't hesitate to get the digital+ package from Mediacom now What's the point? | |
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asdfdfdfdfdf
Anon
2010-Oct-1 6:21 pm
I get tired of he said/she said reporting on these issues...Why don't reporters do their damned job rather than just reporting what fox and dish say. Find out what the actual fee increases are. This isn't just a matter of opinion, there are actual fee numbers involved. Someone isn't telling the truth there, or is being very loose with the truth. Shouldn't the press be digging around to actually determine what the numbers are so that we can determine who is full of shit and who isn't? | |
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Re: I get tired of he said/she said reporting on these issues...That would be great, except the actual agreed upon rates are not released. All we know is Fox wanted a 50% hike. | |
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asdfdfdfdfdf
Anon
2010-Oct-2 4:21 pm
Re: I get tired of he said/she said reporting on these issues...I understand but, in the past, didn't reporters try to ferret out information, that the powers that be didn't want disclosed, to get at the truth behind the claims? At a minimum couldn't they press both sides to justify their claims about 50% fee increases or denial of such fee increases instead of just saying fox claims this and dish claims that?
From some of what I have read it appears as if fox is denying that the fee increase was 50%. Is there any information or evidence about this beyond dish claiming this? Has dish provided any information to support this claim? Has fox provided any data in support of their denial?
Also I don't want to give the impression that I was trying to rag on you Karl. I was making a general statement, out of frustration, as I tried to get more information about this. | |
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Re: I get tired of he said/she said reporting on these issues...I didn't think you were, and I'm with you 100%.
I don't consider myself a "reporter." I'm more like an information traffic cop, that tries to connect people with things they'd find interesting, occasionally interjecting my own thoughts and opinions as somebody that has watched this sector for a decade.
As for "journalism," yeah. It's all he/said she said reporting, regurgitation of press releases, reporters not asking tough questions for fear of losing access, all filtered through a corporate-owned news apparatus that generally rewards superficial crap above hard hitting news.
In this case though, yeah...you're absolutely right. Those numbers might be revealed, and you'd think if you can find someone inside Apple to leak the slightest Apple news every week, you'd think someone could unearth the real numbers of these deals.
What annoys me here is the pretense that either of these companies are interested in fighting for the consumer or against price hikes. It's laughable, and any reporter worth their salt writing about this you'd think would point this out... | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
1 recommendation |
to asdfdfdfdfdf
said by asdfdfdfdfdf :
This isn't just a matter of opinion, there are actual fee numbers involved. I'm sure there are, but I'm also sure they are secret and non-disclosure clauses within the contracts probably spell out major punitive damages should such information be "leaked" to the public. However, in this case, I will side with Dish. I'm quite sure Fox is demanding unreasonable increases. These Sports programmers always try and bend people over for their "content." | |
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FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2010-Oct-1 6:28 pm
Content providers are the real bad guysI have to side with Dish, or cable companies, or telcos, etc that take a stand against the content providers. They try and hold the line on increasing costs and the content companies with their control of the flow of shows try and continually raise rates.
But it is obvious that the American people get so worked up over missing a couple episodes of the latest mindless reality series that the power is on their side. People whine so loudly (to everyone incl congress) that it is hard to stop the content companies. And when prices rise? The content companies blame the cable companies, Dish, etc. And the people actually are stupid enough to believe them. | |
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MadMANN3
Premium Member
2010-Oct-4 3:40 pm
Re: Content providers are the real bad guyssaid by FFH5:But it is obvious that the American people get so worked up over missing a couple episodes of the latest mindless reality series that the power is on their side. People whine so loudly (to everyone incl congress) that it is hard to stop the content companies. And when prices rise? The content companies blame the cable companies, Dish, etc. And the people actually are stupid enough to believe them. What really drives consumers here is the fact that they are buying content through a middle man (DISH, DirecTv, Cable, etc). The customer doesn't know anything except they pay money each month to receive channels agreed upon by the sub and the TV service provider. When those channels are no longer there, the customer has only the customer service number of the company they made an agreement with in the first place. Therefore, the initial blame falls on the service in the eyes of the customer. From that standpoint, it is not their job to have to call Fox and try to negotiate with them. They are paying DISH to do that, right? That all said, Fox takes advantage of the situation because they know most of the complaints and consumer rage will fall on the lap of DISH in this case. That's how content providers have been negotiating for a long time. It really is a shakedown of sorts, with the content company knowing they will cause a huge inconvenience for DISH. Of course, the content provider has the advantage of not having to deal directly with the backlash, so DISH has to try and fight back by bringing Fox into the public with these anti-Fox websites. Unfortunately, no matter how it pans out, the consumer is going to pay. And, when the dust settles, the middle man is going to be the one blamed for the rate hike and Fox will reap the benefits by bringing in more revenue and will look forward to the end of the contract so they can do it again. | |
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Pathfinder5Dazed Confused Premium Member join:2000-03-26 New York, NY 1 edit |
MSG ?Since when does FOX control MSG? Isn't MSG controlled by that beneficent Dolan family? Ironic isn't it? After all the howling Cablevision did about the Food Network last year now they want to raise rates on Fuse. Who watches Fuse?? | |
| | TSWYO Premium Member join:2003-05-03 Cheyenne, WY |
TSWYO
Premium Member
2010-Oct-1 6:49 pm
Re: MSG ?When I can't sleep? | |
| | KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to Pathfinder5
Maybe FOX controls the satellite broadcast of MSG? | |
| | guyver01In Brightest Day join:2001-01-04 Littleton, CO |
to Pathfinder5
said by Pathfinder5:Since when does FOX control MSG? Isn't MSG controlled by that beneficent Dolan family? Ironic isn't it? MSG is controlled by Cablevision... it's a different dispute. check out » www.greedymsg.com/ for info on that dispute. MSG/Dolan's want Dish to carry "some unnamed music channel" .. which i would bet is FUSE. | |
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to Pathfinder5
said by Pathfinder5:Since when does FOX control MSG? Isn't MSG controlled by that beneficent Dolan family? Ironic isn't it? After all the howling Cablevision did about the Food Network last year now they want to raise rates on Fuse. Who watches Fuse?? I do. Not that that matters much. | |
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My folks...don't get FX or Fox Sports. What's in it for them?
Also, why only get FSSouthwest or FSSouth ONLY? why not all FS channels? These are the questions... | |
| | ericn32meh Premium Member join:2009-09-23 Costa Mesa, CA |
ericn32
Premium Member
2010-Oct-1 11:46 pm
Re: My folks...1) basically nothing in it for them, and they might feel the rate hike
2) League rules prevent out-of-market broadcasts of games on regional sports networks (RSNs), unless it's airing on a national network (i.e. ESPN, MLB Network, NFL Network or the entire CBS network as oppose to the local CBS affiliate) or as part of a PPV sports package (Extra Innings, Sunday Ticket, League Pass).
With that in mind, as well as the fact that I live in the Los Angeles market, I can't get MSG, CSN New York or FS Houston, and even if I did get them, the games I would want to watch would be blacked out per league rules.
It's stupid, but that's how the pro sports leagues want it. | |
| | | mob (banned)On the next level.. join:2000-10-07 San Jose, CA |
mob (banned)
Member
2010-Oct-2 1:43 am
Re: My folks...said by ericn32:It's stupid, but that's how the pro sports leagues want it. It's actually a tax levied on the American public that we do not get to vote on. | |
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| Alcohol Premium Member join:2003-05-26 Climax, MI |
to thatissick
said by thatissick:don't get FX or Fox Sports. What's in it for them? Also, why only get FSSouthwest or FSSouth ONLY? why not all FS channels? These are the questions... I don't get Fox sports either. Don't even get fox business, or MSBNC, although i don't care much about the latter. | |
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Voodoo288Common Sense Dictates Premium Member join:2002-08-19 Richmond, VA |
Here's a different take on the situation...I went through my Dish DVR and the only program coming from FX is The League. So apparently there's little to no interest in their programming in my household and since it's FX they'll show any episodes I miss about fifty times before the holiday's get here.
To be honest I've had more interest in the programming currently being broadcast on that channel. | |
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Time for A la carte cable television!Time for A la carte cable television! | |
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We need to fix the industry as it is brokeThe whole industry needs to be fixed. The middle men needs to be removed.
Cable and SAT should just be the delivery system and the customer should have the choice of what channels he buys and the price for that channel will be controlled by the customer and free market. If the price is to high we wont buy it or we chose a different channel.
Right now the way it works allows this type of extortion. By the broadcasters or the cable and SAT providers.
So we should pay a FEE for the provider basic service, and then pay for the channels we like.
If the broadcasters want to make deals with each other to create packages of channels they should but each channel should be available at a free market price.
Until the industry changes its system this current issue will never stop and us customers will get the shaft every time. | |
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Re: We need to fix the industry as it is brokeThis will only be possible with an IPTV based system. Cable and Satellite have a limited amount of bandwidth available for channels. | |
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Re: We need to fix the industry as it is brokeBandwidth is not really the issue and of course the system must be changed. Bandwidth only effects the current systems where all channels are broadcasted at all times and only the paying customer can get them. We could still be allowed to chose the channels we want out of those current channels on the current systems.
If the system wants to add even move channels then it must be changed and could be. Right now all most all cables boxes have an IP address and the systems are digital. We have HSI in almost all areas. So yes IPTV could be the way it is done, i am sure there are other ways also.
As for Satellite they also could allow choice out of the current channels but yes have a bandwidth limit without changing sats out if adding more channels. But remember that if the customer chose the channels then many channels could be dropped because only a few want them and better more demand channels could be added. Free market at work. | |
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cvcsux
Anon
2010-Oct-2 1:12 pm
Cablevision = hypocrites?Wasn't cablevision crying like a school girl the other day when they had to pay up for ABC? Now they're shaking down Dish network?
Can you say hypocrisy? | |
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Whatever happens, consumers will see an increaseand it will probably cover the increase that TW is seeing and even IF TW does not see an increase, they will still charge the consumers the same increase as if they DID have to pay | |
| | IowaMan Premium Member join:2008-08-21 Grinnell, IA |
IowaMan
Premium Member
2010-Oct-2 4:17 pm
Re: Whatever happens, consumers will see an increaseExactly. One way to control costs would be if everyone would drop to the lowest offerings on Cable and then what would the content providers do? They couldn't charge as much for the channel's that you can get over the air. | |
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David Premium Member join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL |
David
Premium Member
2010-Oct-2 4:43 pm
KarlYou should have put dish network fires bill oreily
makes me want to buy now lol | |
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Throw Murdoch in a vat of AcidBack in 1991 02 1992 Ruppert Murdoch tried to get an FCC exemption to own a News station and newspaper in the same market (N.Y.) The FCC refused. When Republicans won control of congress in 1994 they overruled the FCC and granted Murdoch his exemption and many others which resulted in the monster that it is today. When cable companies refused to carry Fox News they were threatened with yanking of franchise agreements by GOP mayors(Guiliani) and other hardball tactics. I would be more sympathetic to Fox if they were truly "Fair and Balanced" Problem is that they have become a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican party. It would be unfair to force Liberal cable subscribers to finance the campaign of Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, O'Donnell and other extreme candidates. | |
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cut the cord
Anon
2010-Oct-2 9:26 pm
It can be fixed with one phone callBack in 2008 when DirecTV jacked the rates again, one call reduced the bill to zero. Now I get ten channels of nothing but at least the commercials are free. | |
| linicxCaveat Emptor Premium Member join:2002-12-03 United State |
linicx
Premium Member
2010-Oct-3 3:48 am
Dish users are leaving...and Direct TV is giving them sports packages as a reward plus a teaser rate for a year. Sweet. | |
| don544 join:2003-03-23 Ortonville, MI |
don544
Member
2010-Oct-3 4:13 pm
Sorry But What Is This About?As we have no tv that we pay for why on earth should I care? | |
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stephen306
Anon
2010-Oct-3 8:57 pm
disgusted with greedy, and, inconsiderate fox sports! well, well, here we go with the big corporations,and all the greed in store with the rich and powerful! Why don't you people @ Fox Corporation,quit picking on poor people who work hard for a living,and like to have some entertainment on television,who can't afford to go to live games,and look forward to watching their favorite teams play on television! Fox network is already the richest network in broadcasting,but,now you're getting greedy and want more money,and don't care who you hurt in the greedy process! Well, all this greed you bestow on your selves will be paid for in the end of time! We already pay you to watch what we see day in and, day out so,you want to pass it on to Dish networkwho already has the best prices of all satellite viewers in America! Dish cares about the little people so,why can't Fox!, care about us ,as well! Please re-consider Dish Network! PLEASE! | |
| stephen306 |
stephen306
Anon
2010-Oct-3 9:03 pm
well, well, here we go with the big corporations,and all the greed in store with the rich and powerful! Why don't you people @ Fox Corporation,quit picking on poor people who work hard for a living,and like to have some entertainment on television,who can't afford to go to live games,and look forward to watching their favorite teams play on television! Fox network is already the richest network in broadcasting,but,now you're getting greedy and want more money,and don't care who you hurt in the greedy process! Well, all this greed you bestow on your selves will be paid for in the end of time! We already pay you to watch what we see day in and, day out so,you want to pass it on to Dish networkwho already has the best prices of all satellite viewers in America! Dish cares about the little people so,why can't Fox!, care about us ,as well! Please re-consider Dish Network! PLEASE! | |
| stephen306 |
stephen306
Anon
2010-Oct-3 9:07 pm
well, well, here we go with the big corporations,and all the greed in store with the rich and powerful! Why don't you people @ Fox Corporation,quit picking on poor people who work hard for a living,and like to have some entertainment on television,who can't afford to go to live games,and look forward to watching their favorite teams play on television! Fox network is already the richest network in broadcasting,but,now you're getting greedy and want more money,and don't care who you hurt in the greedy process! Well, all this greed you bestow on your selves will be paid for in the end of time! We already pay you to watch what we see day in and, day out so,you want to pass it on to Dish networkwho already has the best prices of all satellite viewers in America! Dish cares about the little people so,why can't Fox!, care about us ,as well! Please re-consider Dish Network! PLEASE! (..) | |
| tim Premium Member join:2005-06-07 Conroe, TX
1 recommendation |
tim
Premium Member
2010-Oct-3 10:07 pm
The websites against Fox don't mention a single thing about Dish Network's endless carriage disputes with other networks. If Dish wasn't such a gutter trash, overpriced satellite provider, I don't think there'd be a problem. But, Dish wants all the money in the world for minimal channels. Maybe they'll start their own sports channels. DISH Network Sportscast anyone? | |
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