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Clearwire Seeing 90/30 Mbps In LTE Tests
Though on an empty network without congestion
by Karl Bode 02:13PM Wednesday Oct 20 2010
Clearwire has repeatedly stated they want to leave the option open to migrate to LTE should they see that the Mobile WiMax future isn't particularly bright, something that's a very real possibility given significant, global incumbent support for the LTE platform. So it wasn't too surprising to hear them state recently that they'd be conducting LTE trials in Phoenix this fall, the results of which Clearwire Chief Commercial Officer Mike Sievert says have been promising:
quote:
Sievert said in Phoenix Clearwire is testing a WiMAX network alongside LTE network technology running in both 10x10 MHz and 20x20 MHz network configurations via equipment from Samsung and Huawei. He said Clearwire recorded download speeds of 50 Mbps in the 10x10 configuration, and 90 Mbps downloads (and around 30 Mbps uploads) in the 20x20 configuration.

Sievert, speaking here at the 4G World trade show, noted that the speeds were recorded in a real-world driving scenario, though clearly in a test network unburdened by actual customers.
As we've been covering, Clearwire Mobile WiMax networks "burdened by actual customers" have resulted in a growing number of consumer complaints about unclear and inconsistent throttling practices as the company struggles to keep towers fed with adequate backhaul bandwidth.

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airtouch25

join:2007-05-22
united state

2 recommendations

They were testing this with T-Mobile USA

Good to hear.

RiseAbove
Premium
join:2004-01-30

Re: They were testing this with T-Mobile USA

said by airtouch25:

Good to hear.
Agreed
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Sprint switches to LTE

Its obvious at this point Clearwire will switch to LTE, and Sprint's future will be an MVNO on Clearwire

On the otherhand, Sprint might take its spectrum (Xohm) out of the Clearwire partnership make that its LTE network. When users demand roaming/rural/suburban/highway coverage from Sprint, Sprint will HAVE to use whatever its roaming companies (ATT/Verizon) use. No buts, ifs or whats. CDMA/EVDO has atleast 5 if not 10 years left on it, so Sprint can't use 1900 for LTE any time soon.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Sprint switches to LTE

here we go again with you . You have no proof of this nor is there any proof that Clear will actually move to LTE. They were only testing the technology. And they can build out the LTE network and use it for roaming $$$$ from other carriers- TMO, VZ, ATT.

And Sprint won't take anything from Clear. They own 51% of that company and can do what they want with Clear with no problems. but they won't shoot their right foot by pulling spectrum from Clear- hell they've issued a sale for some of it.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Sprint switches to LTE

said by hottboiinnc:

And Sprint won't take anything from Clear. They own 51% of that company and can do what they want with Clear with no problems. but they won't shoot their right foot by pulling spectrum from Clear- hell they've issued a sale for some of it.
If the cable companies get too aggressive with Sprint, Sprint might have to break off from Clear and go their own path, and Clear will just become a competitor to Sprint. MVNOs relationships never turn out good. The network owner will get jealous and start to compete against the MVNO until the MVNO gives up and hands over the profit markup to the network owner. MVNOs innovate, and the parent just copies then cranks up the wholesale rate until the MVNO dies. Firefly phone for kids got copied by AT&T/VZ not too long after. Media content branded MVNOs all wind up bankrupt/closed and as apps on infrastructure carriers mysteriously. Look at Virgin Mobile and Helio. Verizon used to have a no prepaid policy, now they have alot of prepaid plans. Ampd was killed by Verizon. Sprint used to be a franchise network, it has since bought out or sued into the ground all its franchise holders. TracFone has gave itself insurance by selling both AT&T GSM and Verizon CDMA, so the neither can blackmail TracFone out of the market. All the prepaid mobile companies that have survived (except America Movil) own infrastructure, IE, Pocket, MetroPCS, Cricket. MVNOs as independent companies have no future. Either an MVNO is branded AND BUNDLED through a parent, or its a fake brand of the network owner (Boost, Jump, VM, Rover, etc).

Sprint owns 51% (although that doesn't mean much if your appointed directors mutiny) and can dissolve the partnership, which would prevent the cable companies or McCraw or the mutual funds from trying to get rid of Sprint. Every partner you kill means more profit for you.
DarnellP

join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV
said by patcat88:

Its obvious at this point Clearwire will switch to LTE, and Sprint's future will be an MVNO on Clearwire
Not necessarily. At this point, Clearwire still has enough spectrum to run both WiMAX and LTE.

On the otherhand, Sprint might take its spectrum (Xohm) out of the Clearwire partnership make that its LTE network. When users demand roaming/rural/suburban/highway coverage from Sprint, Sprint will HAVE to use whatever its roaming companies (ATT/Verizon) use.
At this point, I don't know how easy it would be for Sprint to just "take" that spectrum back...As far as roaming, Verizon has stated that they'll operate their CDMA network until at least 2018-2020 so Sprint isn't exactly pressed for time on that end.

No buts, ifs or whats. CDMA/EVDO has atleast 5 if not 10 years left on it, so Sprint can't use 1900 for LTE any time soon.
Again, not necessarily. For one, they have 10MHz of spectrum on the PCS (1900) G band when they finish rebanding their SMR spectrum. Speaking of which, who's to say that they won't start migrating iDEN users off of that spectrum and start using it for LTE? Bottom line is that they do have options available to them if and when the need arises.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Sprint switches to LTE

said by DarnellP:

Again, not necessarily. For one, they have 10MHz of spectrum on the PCS (1900) G band when they finish rebanding their SMR spectrum. Speaking of which, who's to say that they won't start migrating iDEN users off of that spectrum and start using it for LTE? Bottom line is that they do have options available to them if and when the need arises.
The question is, what handsets will be available? If no phone manufacturer in asia wants to make a 1 carrier phone, the carrier will pay dearly for those custom handsets, and the customers won't come if the competitor has a cheaper handset/aircard. What if nobody makes an LTE chipset for that band? Will the carrier really pay Qualcomm or Infineon to make a custom chipset? Exotic wireless bands usually wind up being used for P2P backhaul or sold off or graveyarded (thanks FCC).

No PCS phones come with G band today. PCS G is as exotic as SMR. SMR band is really walkie talkies/taxi dispatch bands that were duct taped together to form a cell network by Nextel in the late 1980s/early 1990s in a very inventive way. The whole rebanding thing stems from that.
DarnellP

join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV

2 edits

Re: Sprint switches to LTE

said by patcat88:

The question is, what handsets will be available? If no phone manufacturer in asia wants to make a 1 carrier phone, the carrier will pay dearly for those custom handsets, and the customers won't come if the competitor has a cheaper handset/aircard. What if nobody makes an LTE chipset for that band? Will the carrier really pay Qualcomm or Infineon to make a custom chipset? Exotic wireless bands usually wind up being used for P2P backhaul or sold off or graveyarded (thanks FCC).
Hard to say, but its not stopping KDDI from deploying LTE on oddball 1.5GHz spectrum in Japan.

No PCS phones come with G band today. PCS G is as exotic as SMR. SMR band is really walkie talkies/taxi dispatch bands that were duct taped together to form a cell network by Nextel in the late 1980s/early 1990s in a very inventive way. The whole rebanding thing stems from that.
no phones today come with support for LTE. Does that mean it will never happen? No, of course not. Hardware is manufactured as it is needed. When there is a need for G band support, then it will be built. Moreover, there's nothing "exotic" about PCS G band or SMR spectrum.

ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/30102008/30/link-f-cnw-new-wireless-entrant-bmv-holdings-names-former-bell.html

Qualcomm Inc., the industry-leading chipset maker for handheld phones, has incorporated support for the PCS G Band spectrum in its standard chipsets for leading U.S. carriers. This technology can be readily applied to handsets in the Canadian market. "Qualcomm's comprehensive product portfolio includes innovative products that support nearly every frequency band in the world allocated for cellular data services," said Steve Brown, Senior Director of Product Management for Qualcomm CDMA Technologies. "G Band spectrum represents exciting new opportunities for consumer wireless services. Qualcomm is happy to support BMV's efforts to help commercialize devices operating in these frequencies."

something tells me it won't be a problem.... As far as the SMR spectrum, after rebanding, they will have 14MHz of contiguous spectrum that is in the middle of or adjacent to the frequencies that Europe will be using for 4G. Spectrum-wise, I just don't think they're in as precarious a position as you seem to be trying to make it appear.
raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA

Backhaul is key

Sprint has one of the best IP backbones in the world. However you have to get to it, which is the challenge for all wireless providers. Speed is one thing but if the connection from the cell tower to the wireline/fiber optic backbone is poor, then 4G/LTE/etc. does not matter. Just ask AT&T. Of course AT&T cannot find their IP backbone with a map and a flashlight, which is another problem altogether...

openupshop

join:2000-11-25
Chandler, AZ

1 recommendation

Re: Backhaul is key

This will not be a problem here in Phoenix. They will most likely use Cox's Docsis 3.0


iLive4Fusion
Premium
join:2006-07-13

Re: Backhaul is key

said by openupshop:

This will not be a problem here in Phoenix. They will most likely use Cox's Docsis 3.0


Too unreliable for backhaul.
--
2010 Ford Fusion Sport

Icee

@clearwire-wmx.net

Wow

So that's where my bandwidth went.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Pretty good

Clear has a whopping 100-150 MHz of spectrum at its disposal, so 20x20 (40 MHz total) LTE would be doable. Compare this to Verizon or AT&T, which AFAIk don't have enough contiguous spectrum to do 20x20 LTE and you get Clear coming out on top speed-wise.

Then again, I can get that kind of throughput on gear that you can deploy right now. The gear just happens to be a bit larger (»ubnt.com) than a phone.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

Re: Pretty good

I wanna see how this company is gonna mature. While its technology, network infrastructure is advanced, its billing, customer service, PR, web application have to mature.

And its hard to rely on only 4g without fallback to 3g. You cannot use it on commuter train. It constantly drops. Either spotty coverage, or poor hand-off between towers.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Pretty good

why are people quick to knock the company and its network? you do realize that Rome wasn't built over night right? They have a LOT to still do as far as putting up more towers and keep going. But yet; everyone has something to bitch about (not targeting you directly) regardless of what Clear is able to do or does.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Pretty good

Have you used Clear? Are they in your area? If not, you can't say yea or nay about the quality of their network.

I've tested Clear's network out in a few areas. The service may be fast at times, with download speeds reaching 8 Mbps, but I also saw speeds comparable to EvDO elsewhere, and at times I couldn't get service at all despite being in Clear's coverage area.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Pretty good

and yes. Clear is in Cleveland but not official yet. I have a 4g/3g card from Sprint and 4g works great!

The part about the network is people bitch about what is wrong with it and it's not the fact of anything being wrong with it except the towers are running out of backhaul bandwidth and the towers are limited in areas. Any company would have that problem; just not Clear. But people don't seem to get that; instead its just easy to bitch about them and give them neg press; which BBR/DSLR seems to do to anyone except VZW, T and Google. Anyone else Karl hates with a passion when he types his blog entries.

And just because someone has an issue in NC doesn't mean that someone else is going to have the same problem in Cali or even Washington or NYC. The fact is the network is different in every area in terms of the backhaul and such. nobody bothers to listen though. It's all about the bitching about how half ass their network is and how they should scrap Wimax and move to LTE just because T and VZ are doing it. Hell T isn't even there yet and people are already worshiping them.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

Re: Pretty good

People b**ch even worse about ATT and I don't remember seeing you there defending it. How do you know if Clear got as big as ATT Mobility wouldn't be more expensive and people still complained from inconsistent service in some areas?
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
And you live in Cleveland, OH. Do you ever ride commuter train there to the city from suburbs? Clear may be perfect for single hotspot in the city, in cafe, beach, restaurant especially where there is no wi-fi or it is overpriced. But try to use it in the moving vehicle. Spend 1 hour or so on commute and see if you can even reconnect once the connection drops and can't view any website. EDGE/HSPA doesn't suffer from this.
questionable

join:2005-10-18
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Pretty good

LOL no one uses the RTV it's to scary
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

Re: Pretty good

I don't know what are you talking about.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

1 edit
I've noticed a similar issue with Sprint's 4G. The reception is very finicky, and if I place my coffee in the wrong spot, the signal drops.

However, my office is located just north of the main Dulles runway 19L/1R, and from this static location I am able to stream 256-320 kbps MOG music files or use my Slingmedia player to watch TV at all hours of the day/night with seemingly no drop in performance.

I've streamed my Slingbox content during the Tour de France from 6 AM to noon, had the British Open golf tournament showing from the first tee-off until the sun went down, caught a few weekday college football games along with Monday Night Football games, and even the baseball playoff games, like the Yankees - Rangers game that I am watching right now. Works perfectly without any problems.

I can't imagine that I'm being throttled, as I would think the picture quality would go to hell.

I have 3G to fall back on when traveling about, and I only fire up the 4G radio when I know the signal is good and I plan on using an app that would take advantage of the increased performance or need to transfer a large file that can't wait.

Between the choice of a Starbuck's WiFi or 4G, if both are available, I'd feel more confident that I would get much better performance with the 4G, especially if there are more than a couple of people using the WiFi.

All that said, the 4G is not ready for mobile use. Just driving around with 4G enabled, I can see the signal drop from maximum to nothing and back again several times in a simple 5-6 mile trip to grab a bite to eat. It's use is better suited to WiFi type activities, and not as much for what 3G does.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

Re: Pretty good

said by jmn1207:

Between the choice of a Starbuck's WiFi or 4G, if both are available, I'd feel more confident that I would get much better performance with the 4G, especially if there are more than a couple of people using the WiFi.

That depends where you use it. If you use it at university's library with smart networking design, even if many people connect it won't suffer congestion. Worse it comes to stores or coffee shops and especially public libraries which have poorly designed wi-fi networks. Some of them even use only linksys consumer grade crap and for backhaul use minimal adsl tier available!!!
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by hottboiinnc:

and yes. Clear is in Cleveland but not official yet. I have a 4g/3g card from Sprint and 4g works great!

The part about the network is people bitch about what is wrong with it and it's not the fact of anything being wrong with it except the towers are running out of backhaul bandwidth and the towers are limited in areas. Any company would have that problem; just not Clear. But people don't seem to get that; instead its just easy to bitch about them and give them neg press; which BBR/DSLR seems to do to anyone except VZW, T and Google. Anyone else Karl hates with a passion when he types his blog entries.

And just because someone has an issue in NC doesn't mean that someone else is going to have the same problem in Cali or even Washington or NYC. The fact is the network is different in every area in terms of the backhaul and such. nobody bothers to listen though. It's all about the bitching about how half ass their network is and how they should scrap Wimax and move to LTE just because T and VZ are doing it. Hell T isn't even there yet and people are already worshiping them.
Cry more.
squison

join:2001-07-07
Decatur, GA
From a end-user perspective it doesn't matter if it's the tower, the backhaul or the network. The problem is the company over-promised a level of service to too many subscribers and are reluctant or slow to spend money/time on more towers, bigger backhaul pipes, or increased network capacity. Meanwhile, customers see drops in service, complain about the company/network, and head for the competition.

If they want to avoid customer backlash like this, they just need to be clear about what service they are offering up front (if you cap, tell us -- don't hide it in vague terms in the AUP) and only offer a level of service they can actually provide.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Agreed. I was in San Antonio yesterday and 4G coverage was spotty despite having been around for a year or so...
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Pretty good

problem with any carrier network that is wireless.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Pretty good

My Sprint aircard works just fine. My Sprint phone on 3G works just fine. Friends' AT&T and Verizon phones work just fine. Granted, we're talking about 3G that's at least 600MHz lower-frequency than Clear WiMAX but the fact remains that it works less well than the competition has for years.

GNH
tolle causam
Premium
join:1999-12-20
Arlington, TX

The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades

AISB, the future is wireless.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

1 edit

Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades

like this guy?


GNH
tolle causam
Premium
join:1999-12-20
Arlington, TX

Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades

Similar... (g)

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.

join:2006-07-23

Good news

Great to hear they're testing LTE; I know Sprint's CEO has specifically stated that they're not married to WiMax, by any stretch of the imagination.

Considering the bandwidth advantage of LTE (and the much bigger once, latency...which is horrid on WiMax, but like DSL/cable on LTE), I can't see WiMax winning, even if it has a 1-2 year advantage.

I've heard rumors (don't know if it's true) that WiMax equipment can handle LTE with a simple software upgrade...hopefully, that's true.
billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2

Sure fast speeds, sure do cap

Sure you might have really fast speeds eventually with them, but, they will cap you like they have been doing to alot of their customers. So, in a matter of time you will have less than dialup speeds, like with alot of customers now.
mbrianc2

join:2008-08-16

Doesn't matter anyway

I don't see the point in arguing the speeds available when all the carriers are trying to institute caps or throttling for wireless data. I don't care how fast it is, if they try methods to restrict your usage to less than 25 gigs a month, it will be useless for anything else other than showing it off to your friends.