Pay TV Industry Lost 119,000 Viewers In 3Q Cable ops lost 741k, phone companies gained 476k Wednesday Nov 17 2010 14:27 EDT As the cable industry continues to argue that cord cutters either aren't real or just don't matter because they're poor, cutting due to high prices, or supposedly live in their mom's basement -- research firm SNL Kagan notes that cable operators lost 741,000 basic video customers in the third quarter, the "the largest single dip for cable since the research firm began compiling data for the segment in 1980." Much of that was due to customers heading elsewhere, given the phone industry added 476,000 customers in the third quarter. Still, the research firm notes that overall, the pay TV sector lost 119,000 subscribers overall, as customers continue to respond to constant rate hikes during a sour economy. |
pandora Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Outland |
pandora
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 2:28 pm
A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionA lot of this loss could be due to the recession, and not due to cord cutting over to internet sources for the same or similar media.
I don't know if basic cable, or even enhanced cable is as necessary as paying the mortgage, electric bill, or providing food and insurance. If families are on tighter than usual budgets, they may cancel cable to live within their means.
One day, it would be nice to see a real competitor for cable and satellite via internet. I have yet to see any single internet aggregator offer everything I get now via cable. The closest seems to be Microsoft media center and Hulu.
When the new channels, and the kids channels are all available via live stream or via dvr like feature and can be locally cached on some sort of low cost set top box, then internet TV will have arrived. For now, internet TV (aside maybe from Netflix and Hulu) is more for geeks than for typical consumers imo. | |
| | zed2608 Premium Member join:2007-09-30 Cleveland, TN |
zed2608
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 2:31 pm
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionim thinking its a bit of both the reccession probably is helping to push a lot more then otherwise would be to cut cord
im thinking if unemployment was higher and we where not in this current reccesion or whatever mess youed see probably 50k loss anyway | |
| | | pandora Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Outland |
pandora
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 2:38 pm
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionsaid by zed2608:im thinking if unemployment was higher and we where not in this current reccesion or whatever mess youed see probably 50k loss anyway Maybe. For my family to cut their satellite habit would require a DVR like set top box, which would have to provide at least the extended basic cable channels and ability to cache programs (even if the cache wasn't in home). So far, I don't think anyone has aggregated all the basic channels and packaged them in a low cost internet service with a PC, Mac, Linux and STB. When someone does, they'll be very rich imo. Netflix, Hulu and others have demonstrated the viability of large media stream content for the masses. However, I can't get live streams or DVR like streams of CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, or Fox News. My kids can't record or get HUB, Nick, Disney, other channels the family uses is stuff like Biography, Sy-Fy, and what not. One day, maybe someone will aggregate these and offer a low cost internet only service with a nice set top box. | |
| | | aztecnologyO Rly? Premium Member join:2003-02-12 Murrieta, CA |
to zed2608
said by zed2608:im thinking its a bit of both the reccession probably is helping to push a lot more then otherwise would be to cut cord I cut the cord this past Saturday, for both financial and to go online only. We have netflix for now and have started using hulu, plus I have about 200 movies in my library on the computer that we stream to the tv. I watched the auburn game this past saturday on the cbs website and I watched sunday night football on nbc's website, plus I have access to espn3. My basics are covered, and it will be an easy paradigm shift for the family since they have no choice but to adapt. I see an appletv or roku in our future as well... | |
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Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionPretty much the same thing here. I just dont care if I dont get to see the content right away. I also think the content available is over valued and if they refuse to offer me the kind of options and flexibility I need then ill take my stand and pass. I dont mind paying a bit more to subsidize customers in need but im not going to subsidize all those channels I dont want. | |
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| 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
to pandora
said by pandora:A lot of this loss could be due to the recession, and not due to cord cutting over to internet sources for the same or similar media. you can't seperate the two. If the internet didn't exist how many of those would still have cut the cord? Not many. No way most people do without any TV. Because the internet gives you at least SOME video that makes cutting the cord less "painful" for a lack of a better word. | |
| | | pandora Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Outland |
pandora
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 6:07 pm
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionsaid by 88615298:you can't seperate the two. If the internet didn't exist how many of those would still have cut the cord? Not many. No way most people do without any TV. Because the internet gives you at least SOME video that makes cutting the cord less "painful" for a lack of a better word. To get a lot of broadcast content over internet is still the realm of geeks. I don't think people want to have a browser, keyboard, mouse and hdmi connection between their TV and PC to search for stuff. When an aggregater can offer service similar to basic and extended basic cable for less than the cable companies, and offer it via PC, Mac, Linux or STB, then you may start to see a migration over. Though many ISP's cap service. | |
| | | | 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2010-Nov-17 7:39 pm
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionsaid by pandora:said by 88615298:you can't seperate the two. If the internet didn't exist how many of those would still have cut the cord? Not many. No way most people do without any TV. Because the internet gives you at least SOME video that makes cutting the cord less "painful" for a lack of a better word. To get a lot of broadcast content over internet is still the realm of geeks. I don't think people want to have a browser, keyboard, mouse and hdmi connection between their TV and PC to search for stuff. When an aggregater can offer service similar to basic and extended basic cable for less than the cable companies, and offer it via PC, Mac, Linux or STB, then you may start to see a migration over. Though many ISP's cap service. let's see XBOX 360, PS3, Roku, most blu-ray players even TVs now. | |
| | | | | pandora Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Outland |
pandora
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 11:43 pm
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionsaid by 88615298:said by pandora:said by 88615298:you can't seperate the two. If the internet didn't exist how many of those would still have cut the cord? Not many. No way most people do without any TV. Because the internet gives you at least SOME video that makes cutting the cord less "painful" for a lack of a better word. To get a lot of broadcast content over internet is still the realm of geeks. I don't think people want to have a browser, keyboard, mouse and hdmi connection between their TV and PC to search for stuff. When an aggregater can offer service similar to basic and extended basic cable for less than the cable companies, and offer it via PC, Mac, Linux or STB, then you may start to see a migration over. Though many ISP's cap service. let's see XBOX 360, PS3, Roku, most blu-ray players even TVs now. My family watched half a dozen programs tonight, many of the programs I watched were skimmed (used the foward 30 seconds on the remote to skip commercials and segments that were of no interest). Channels looked at included MSNBC, FSTV, Link TV, Hub, CNN, Fox News, Fox Business, Disney, Nick, Teen Nick, CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox, TBS, National Geographic, and the SyFy channel. How would I get content, and record content locally for purposes of DVR functionality with a PS3 or Xbox 360 using a remote control without any subscription and with the relative ease of picking content from a prospective guide that goes out 2 weeks and is searchable? My family uses a mix of live and recorded content via 4 DVR's each with a 2 TB hard drive. These are run at a bit over 50% of capacity on a regular basis. I'd be interested in reading about your suggestion to use an Xbox 360 or PS 3 to get the content I do now. | |
| | | | | | 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2010-Nov-18 10:52 am
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionsaid by pandora:My family watched half a dozen programs tonight, many of the programs I watched were skimmed (used the foward 30 seconds on the remote to skip commercials and segments that were of no interest). Channels looked at included MSNBC, FSTV, Link TV, Hub, CNN, Fox News, Fox Business, Disney, Nick, Teen Nick, CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox, TBS, National Geographic, and the SyFy channel. How would I get content, and record content locally for purposes of DVR functionality with a PS3 or Xbox 360 using a remote control without any subscription and with the relative ease of picking content from a prospective guide that goes out 2 weeks and is searchable? My family uses a mix of live and recorded content via 4 DVR's each with a 2 TB hard drive. These are run at a bit over 50% of capacity on a regular basis. I'd be interested in reading about your suggestion to use an Xbox 360 or PS 3 to get the content I do now. Well I've never used a DVR nor do I intend to. When they sell one for under $50 and no subscription fees I might bite. I used a VCR to record a show about 20 years ago. That's the last time I used a recording device. Honestly TV isn't THAT important that it dominates my life that I have to record hundreds hours of programing a month. | |
| | | | | | | pandora Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Outland |
pandora
Premium Member
2010-Nov-18 10:58 am
Re: A lot of this loss could be due to the recessionsaid by 88615298:Well I've never used a DVR nor do I intend to. When they sell one for under $50 and no subscription fees I might bite. I used a VCR to record a show about 20 years ago. That's the last time I used a recording device. Honestly TV isn't THAT important that it dominates my life that I have to record hundreds hours of programing a month. This is our difference. Some members of my family watch a lot of TV, some don't. Personally I prefer to skim many news programs and see what is of interest to me usually within a few hours of broadcast. It appears you really have no need for TV, and are happy with an Xbox 360, PS 3, or Roku for media content. Those products don't offer the content my family enjoys, and don't facilitate my viewing style of choice. My guess is many time shift via DVR, and there are a number of basic and extended basic cable channels. If an aggregator comes along and can offer the channels we enjoy, with similar capability to that which we have today and at a lower price, we'll jump in. Until then, it looks like DirecTV gets our monthly check. | |
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bt
Member
2010-Nov-17 2:36 pm
Meaningful direction, but meaningless volume2 quarters of loss means something, but 119,000 subscribers is only 0.1% of the market. Too small of a number to be able to pin the trend on any one cause. | |
| | S_engineer Premium Member join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL |
Re: Meaningful direction, but meaningless volumeThe one cause they could use is "the excuse". The cablecos have ticked people of for so long with bad programming, excessive rate hikes, poor service, and useless tv stations that the first thing to go in a recession is the cable. Its all about priorities....food or QVC, TLC( the what can I get the husband to do around the house channel), E, Lifetime (the husband is guilty channel) , and the 5 billion commercials per movie via TBS? | |
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cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 2:59 pm
119,000 customers lost vs 350,000 foreclosuresCoincidentally the number of REO houses follows the number of "cord cutters"... Or is it the other way around? Hmmmmmmmm.... Wouldn't be unreasonable to thing that a foreclosed home is one less subscriber... While some would like to believe it's the "internet revolution", it's not... REAL cord cutters are just a few who realized they don't actually watch TV anyway or simply can't afford it anymore. | |
| EliteDataEliteData Premium Member join:2003-07-06 Philippines |
©no tv service, just internet. watch streams from justin.tv and related sites as well as movies from usenet and other various sources, from laptop to lcd tv instead. the constant rate hikes, retransmission fee hijacks and lack of quality programming pushed me over the edge. | |
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The loss is REALNow we have reasonable evidence that not only the recession is real, but technology and competition from broadband is also taking a bite out of the cable industry. Trying to pick fights over hiking prices isn't going to work (the core business model is over 30 years old). There are 3 types of service providers: cablecos, telcos and satcos. Each have their own agenda when it comes to the war of getting/keeping subscribers.
I'm probably not the first one to sound the alarm, but losing thousands of subscribers per quarter is a problem, much in the way the telcos who lost Plain Old Telephone Service customers in the last 10 years. Something better, cheaper and more robust comes along and begins a revolution/evolution. For cable to regain its customer base there will need to be changes. Even the telcos are realizing that and making small baby step changes (and advertising them). You don't see comcast, time warner, and the rest of the rusty bunch doing much to stem the hemorraging. Don't expect lobbying dollars dangled in front of the new congress to have much of an effect, they've got much bigger problems on their plate.
Things WILL get interesting as the cable industry will have to come to terms with competing on broadband speeds and deployment of docsis 3.0 at SYMMETRICAL SPEEDS. Horrible medicine for a cable company... but they'll have to decide how much money & profit they can stand losing from... the content side or the broadband side. Perhaps a STREAMING/IP package that comes with a symmetical 25 - 100mbit package as the harsh medicine at competitive prices. Cable companies are feeding a telemarketing trough that isn't helping matters... change must come from within. | |
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cowboyro
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 3:53 pm
Re: The loss is REALsaid by tmc8080:Now we have reasonable evidence that not only the recession is real, but technology and competition from broadband is also taking a bite out of the cable industry. Only it's not the broadband competition, it's the recession. Subscriber losses are in line with foreclosures and a reduction in home ownership rate. said by tmc8080:Don't expect lobbying dollars dangled in front of the new congress to have much of an effect, they've got much bigger problems on their plate. 3 words: HA HA HA!!! Dream on... said by tmc8080:Things WILL get interesting as the cable industry will have to come to terms with competing on broadband speeds and deployment of docsis 3.0 at SYMMETRICAL SPEEDS. Competition? where, where? said by tmc8080:Horrible medicine for a cable company... but they'll have to decide how much money & profit they can stand losing from... the content side or the broadband side. Perhaps a STREAMING/IP package that comes with a symmetical 25 - 100mbit package as the harsh medicine at competitive prices. Economy 101: the price of a product is the amount someone is willing to pay for it. If raising the price by 2% results in a 1% loss in customer base then it's a net gain - increased revenue and less expenses. And broadband won't replace TV, all major players are hinting caps and/or overages. | |
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Re: The loss is REALYou may want to study up on your Economy 101 before stating blatant misinformation. | |
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to cowboyro
The trends of loss in [CABLE-TV] subscribership are much larger than 1% per quarter on a per company basis. Since Comcast is more geography diverse.. they probably are seeing the biggest hurt in the foreclosure picture. I'm estimating this q3 loss of at least 3% of the VIDEO customer base (from all sources.. churn, cord cutters, foreclosed homes, etc). In NO WAY is Comcast going to be happy with 3%+ of that base going away.
Some people don't read, or follow this head in the sand/cloud mentality. Cable-tv as it stands will be in less households & businesses across the country in 2011 as a net loss in subscribership year over year. THIS WILL BE AN UNDISPUTABLE FACT.
If you are to dispute these numbers with the spin of a cable company shareholder, employee, or fan, or have some financial interest in a cable company, fine.. but that point of view is not based in reality. | |
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Gami00 join:2010-03-11 Mississauga, ON |
Gami00
Member
2010-Nov-17 3:44 pm
once you've quit...most people seem to ignore that when most people quit something, esp. because of cost, they'll normally look at a way to replace it as best as possible..
once you've quit Cable TV, most people will switch to OTA setup.. others will try to find it via the internet... lots will probably be a mix of both.
regardless, of it not being a simple box on your TV anymore, once the people who have quit, starts using these alternatives, they won't go back to paid cable, esp. if it's at a rate of even more than when they first quit.
unless the cableTV/telcoTV, start doing price cuts, they'll just keep losing users, and it will be permanent loses instead of "ppl just canceling til they find more money again".. After they've found their alternative, they won't be coming back to cableTV. | |
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How many actual pay tv subscribers are there? When several friends switched to DBS they asked me for a solution on how to receive the local HD stations not carried on DBS and still get high speed broadband from the cable company without paying the broadband only premium. I always recommend the $11.00 entry level CATV service plus broadband access. The cost for this service is only about one to two dollars more than broadband only. The CATV company can still count that home as a Video Subscriber while the subscriber gets high speed broadband for almost the same price as internet access only. I wonder how many broadband subscribers are actually on the entry level CATV tier so they be counted as CATV subscribers. | |
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BASIC VIDEO???It confuses me to no end when they use the term basic video. Do they mean Comcast's $10-$12 basic or their $57-$60 basic? | |
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Re: BASIC VIDEO???actually they can count both. but most likely the $40+ bundle | |
| | IowaMan Premium Member join:2008-08-21 Grinnell, IA |
to beavercable
Ha I wish I could get the "limited TV" for $12 I pay $23 for it now However I do get TBS and CMT E and RFDTV | |
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baineschile2600 ways to live Premium Member join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI |
MathPeople left pay TV for these reasons:
1. Recession 2. "Cord Cutter" 3. Death, tired of it, blah blah.
Lets do some math.
Total households that subscribe to pay TV last year: 80,000,000 (about ish).
119,000 left for one of the above reasons (as much as Karl would love, we cannot assume that its all cord cutter)
Percentage lost: 1.5%
Assuming HALF (again, assumption), less than 1% of people cut the cord, and it was not recession related.
I am not saying "cord cutting" wont be a bigger trend in the future, but the numbers just dont support it today. Lets not forget people that stop paying for TV, are still paying cable/phone companies for internet access. | |
| | SpaethCoDigital Plumber MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
2 recommendations |
Re: Mathsaid by baineschile:Total households that subscribe to pay TV last year: 80,000,000 (about ish). I think you're a bit short on those numbers, considering TBS is claiming 101,900,000 subscribers. » www.mediabistro.com/tvne ··· k_b24132So if we assume that's the top number of pay TV subscribers, it's 119,000 out of 101,900,000 -- or about 0.12% of the overall Pay TV market that dropped service this quarter. So the percentage is even smaller than what you were saying. While cord cutters are well represented at this site, in relation to the total number of pay TV subscribers the cord cutters aren't even big enough to introduce a rounding error. | |
| | | baineschile2600 ways to live Premium Member join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI |
Re: Math^ | |
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Lost will = gainThe lost income from the loss will actually be replaced with increases of broadband as well as caps. So in truth- "cutting the cord" won't really work after a while. You can't expect to live on the 'Net to get all your programming and watch unlimited of it for $40-50 per month. the HSI providers are going to realize that and UP will go the HSI bills and caps will be brought in across the board. Once 2 other major providers drop caps on their customers; you can bet ALL providers will start bringing them in. | |
| | 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2010-Nov-17 5:41 pm
Re: Lost will = gainsaid by hottboiinnc4:The lost income from the loss will actually be replaced with increases of broadband as well as caps. So in truth- "cutting the cord" won't really work after a while. You can't expect to live on the 'Net to get all your programming and watch unlimited of it for $40-50 per month. the HSI providers are going to realize that and UP will go the HSI bills and caps will be brought in across the board. Once 2 other major providers drop caps on their customers; you can bet ALL providers will start bringing them in. I'd like like to see cable companies cap someone OTA antenna. | |
| | | norbert26 Premium Member join:2010-08-10 Warwick, RI |
Re: Lost will = gainsaid by 88615298:said by hottboiinnc4:The lost income from the loss will actually be replaced with increases of broadband as well as caps. So in truth- "cutting the cord" won't really work after a while. You can't expect to live on the 'Net to get all your programming and watch unlimited of it for $40-50 per month. the HSI providers are going to realize that and UP will go the HSI bills and caps will be brought in across the board. Once 2 other major providers drop caps on their customers; you can bet ALL providers will start bringing them in. I'd like like to see cable companies cap someone OTA antenna. thats in danger too. theres a big battle coming . you see the cell phone carriers want more spectrum so they can sell more capped internet services . they want to take more TV channels away. add this in with white space devices that will soon be operating in the TV bands raising interference potential and OTA does not look safe either. The big players are doing what they can to see to it OTA gets trashed. | |
| | | | IowaMan Premium Member join:2008-08-21 Grinnell, IA |
IowaMan
Premium Member
2010-Nov-18 5:07 pm
Re: Lost will = gainCan you source that please? I'd like some education on that. | |
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rody_44 Premium Member join:2004-02-20 Quakertown, PA |
rody_44
Premium Member
2010-Nov-17 4:35 pm
enough is enoughI do non pays for a living, People are being disconnected because they cant afford it. I know carl would like it to be because of cord cutting. The fact is because people dont have any money they go without. Is it because of cost, sure it is. that doesnt change the bottom line. Out of every ten disconnecting 7 or 8 will be reconnected within 3 months. If you want to call that cord cutting go with it. But what it really is people being smart with there money. As the very last job of the day said. Im waiting for the food bank to call and you really think i should pay my cable bill. Of course not. | |
| beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH |
beaups
Member
2010-Nov-17 4:55 pm
HousingMore than 100K people lost their houses last quarter, 300K if memory serves me correctly.
Perhaps there's an impact on cable tv when people lose their homes?
Just sayin... | |
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Re: Housingyep and it's not cord cutting. | |
| | ctceo Premium Member join:2001-04-26 South Bend, IN |
to beaups
And those are just the numbers they want you to know about. | |
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AlakarFacts do not cease to exist when ignored join:2001-03-23 Milwaukee, WI
1 recommendation |
Alakar
Member
2010-Nov-17 10:27 pm
Ruby SlippersKarl must think that if he keeps spouting the cord cutter mantra and clicks his heels together three times it will come true. Can be the only reason he keeps posting these articles up and then editorializes that it's cord cutting. I think that old political axiom fits, "It's the economy, stupid". | |
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33358088 (banned)
Member
2010-Nov-18 12:23 am
NOT only recessionits high prices going up up up up and away
and you add all that spywar they put on you all and pay for.... you add DMCA and et all...and copyright fee this and copyright fee that people just go fuck you after a while 741K left cable and 400K+ went to a phone service ( likely dsl to download what they can before they get a lawsuit notice ) | |
| | SpaethCoDigital Plumber MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN |
Re: NOT only recessionsaid by 33358088:741K left cable and 400K+ went to a phone service ( likely dsl to download what they can before they get a lawsuit notice ) The 400+k are the folks who went to Telco TV. That's stuff like Verizon FiOS TV, AT&T U-Verse, or muni fiber providers who are also providing video services. This is delivered in the same packages as traditional cable TV, just from a provider who was previously only a telco. This has nothing to do with people who are getting their TV content solely from the Internet; that number is significantly smaller. | |
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billdacat6 Premium Member join:2009-05-26 Sicklerville, NJ |
It's free...Cut the cord over a year ago
I got a cheap Verizon FiOS plan that offered 10/2 internet and unlimited phone. Via OTA, I time slip most of my viewing a W7-HTPC to avoid annoying commercials. Netflix and a little IPTV, (directly from ABC, CBS, yada, yada, yada
..) as we all know that Hulu sucks.
I work with a bunch of computer geeks that actively pursuing cord-cutting. We hang around the water cooler bragging about our HTPCs and home video servers. Yeah everyone has the I-Phone ho-hum, now the hot conversation is antennas and building a rocking ass HD-HTPC system. On the down side
I sort of miss Monday night football, but what the heck
.I am cheap... | |
| TMMerlinThe Devil made me do it join:2003-06-19 Oxford, MI |
SNIP-SNIP-SNIPOne OTA antenna "free" .. [cashed in some bonus points] NetFlix .. streaming and 3 DVD's with BlueRay ..$22.00/month Dumped cable and landline and save $203/month I already have a cellphone so that dosen't count. Why did I do SNIP-SNIP-SNIP .. it just felt so good getting that cable shaft out of my anus ....! | |
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Me2
Anon
2010-Nov-20 9:04 am
I'm returning my cable box in 15 minI gave it a trial run and have not turned on cable tv for 2 weeks. I use my laptop and an HDMI cable to connect to a big flatscreen tv and watch everything I want online, plus I joined Netflix.
The last straw for me was the absurd weather channel and news channels that sound more like a junior high lunchroom than broadcast journalism. Every morning looking for a news and weather update, I'd think to myself "I'm paying for this nonsense?" Then I would get online and find out what happened overnight.
Am I going to miss the insane Bettis-Roker chit-chat between the weather update? Nahhh .... Goodby cable and hello $80 in my pocket every month. | |
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Jojo
Anon
2010-Nov-22 3:00 am
Shaw overagesSoon as shaw starts charging overage fees ill be cutting my cord and getting all my content threw telus.... Only old people wanna watch TV where ADs are not already removed, i mean really why waste 1/3rd of your life watching fail ads.... | |
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