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Primus: Bell's Over Billing Not Tied To Real World Costs
UBB charges 'many, may times' the cost of delivery
by Karl Bode 07:40AM Monday Jan 10 2011 Tipped by thebaron See Profile
With Canadian incumbents convincing Canadian regulators that usage-based billing was a good idea, Canadian consumers are now seeing all manner of rate hikes -- including Bell Canada trying to charge several hundred dollars for a 7Mbps DSL connection. With incumbents now throttling and double dipping wholesaler bandwidth too, Bell competitors like Primus have been forced to follow Bell's lead. As we've repeated, charging users up to $4.50 per gigabyte is a power play untied to real ISP economics, something Primus exec Matt Stein makes clear in comments to the CBC. "It's not meant to recover costs," says Stein of Bell's new billing. "In fact these charges that Bell has levied are many, many, many times what it costs to actually deliver it." Ultimately, it's not about Congestion, either. Bell's move is about retaining power, socking it to competitors, and cashing in on Internet video.

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cavemanISP

@zoomvps.com

Canada has lost 3 million user accounts since 2006

Canada has lost 3 million user accounts since 2006.
harper didn't like that facebook revolt so this is his plan to get rid of the rest of canada's internet....

travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

Re: Canada has lost 3 million user accounts since 2006

Lost 3 million accounts? What are you talking about?

trainwreck6

join:2010-09-21
off track

Another Chronoss clone... brother...

Chronoss Uha, dear eccentric one, quit changing your name and stop playing your shenanigans, we know who you are. It's pathetic and annoying like some of your comments sometimes.

First, quit blaming Harper, he has nothing to do with it, as Prime Minister he has WAY more issues on his plate then worrying about ISP billing.

That's why he delegates all these side issues to cabinet ministers, like Tony Clement. Complain to HIM. That's his job.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Canada has lost 3 million user accounts since 2006

said by cavemanISP :

Canada has lost 3 million user accounts since 2006.
harper didn't like that facebook revolt so this is his plan to get rid of the rest of canada's internet....

How about a link for that unlikely claim.
Xsympatico

join:2009-05-19

Re: Canada has lost 3 million user accounts since 2006

Here is the link. Canadian internet users actually dropped 3 million in just one year 2008 to 2009 and penetration rate almost 10 points over the one year period.

»www.internetworldstats.com/am/ca.htm
singh01

join:2010-08-05
Hamilton, ON

UBB

Finally some other companies are getting a grasp of the situation. Hopefully they need to team up with TSI, so they both have a better chance of removing the UBB or a high enough cap like 200GB.
jimbo2150

join:2004-05-10
Euclid, OH

Re: UBB

said by singh01:

Hopefully they need to team up with TSI, so they both have a better chance of removing the UBB or a high enough cap like 200GB.

NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Don't you know!?!? Removing regulation is meant to be good for consumers by lower prices and promoting innovation and improving speeds and services!

Nothing to see here. These are not the droids you're looking for. Move along.
koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Primus and TSI both are on the same side here really.. and have been fighting together, but both seem to have accepted UBB, just don't agree with Bell on the rates.

Unless the Gov of Canada stops this, UBB is here and a reality.
jeremiah_eng

join:2010-04-03

Re: UBB

UBB by itself is not entirely evil. The way the Canadian telcoms are trying to implement it is though.

If they want it to be by usage, then it should be ENTIRELY about usage. None of this $50 for your line and some usage, then a ridiculous amount of money when you go over that. Make it like gas/electricity and only charge people what they use. The only way this works though is if the rates are actually reasonable, and have it so you can purchase plans for groups of data (aka long distance minutes).

I'm surprised this point hasn't come up before, but to make this all happen, REVENUE GRADE meters need to be installed AT EVERY LOCATION that is provided internet so that we are not at the whim of fictional/faulty counting done by the person who is collecting money from us.

trainwreck6

join:2010-09-21
off track

2 edits

1 recommendation

Re: UBB

Well, when it comes to electricity, at least on my Ontario bill, the reality is more like the current UBB. That is, a base rate plus usage.

That's because even if I use 0 kw/h in a billing period I still pay Debt Retirement Charge and a minimal amount of "Delivery" charge. Also, a "Regulatory Charge" (I just checked my last bill again.) Those charges therefore are unavoidable and generate a minimum bill.

They also rise in proportion to usage! If I use 400 kw/h I pay less of those charges than if I use 1200 kw/h. I don't know what the formula is. But I'll always pay a minimum.

It's not like the old days from Bob Rae and prior where you paid 4 cents kw/h and then multiply that by your usage and that was your bill.

Deregulation under Mike Harris and Ernie Eves and their Energy Ministers took care of that as people demanded that each category of charge and utility overhead was broken down into separate line items on our bills.

Careful what you ask for! But the mantra is that during decades prior that we were underpaying for Hydro and now we have to overpay to make up for the lost decades of upgrades and maintenance. It has to be done, but it won't be painless.

Then of course the HST now is calculated upon the total of everything (including the Debt Retirement which is controversial).

In the last billing period I used 453 kw/h and paid 77.10 all inclusive. Therefore that's a shade over 17.01 cents per kw/h including all fees and taxes, bottom line.

However if I used zero, I would still pay 20 bucks or more just to "maintain the lines." Just like UBB.

intlcelrn11

@acanac.net

Re: UBB

TOU billing is completely different. Honestly the hydro in Ontario is atrocious. My bill has consistently gone up month after month.

What I hate the most is ignorant people that say that we're paying for upgrades to the system - new power plants, etc etc. Most people don't know this but the power usage these past few years has actually gone down, meaning new (more) power plants aren't required. Some plants were even decommissioned.

Anyone remember when Time of Use was introduced? it started out as "your bill will look like 3 cents per kilowatt hour for off-peak times" ... Remember? And then it went up to 5. So to me it was a marketing scam to get the public on board. The same is true with Bell with UBB, it's a big scam, Rogers and Bell have lowered their caps so it "just makes sense" to upgrade. In this world, it "just makes sense" to go with Bell, since they'll have the economic (price) advantage in comparison to non-incumbents, and since Bell passed it through local regulatory agency (CRTC), they're sitting back, laughing their butts off.

Wait until cable wipes the floor with them. Who cares about Bell any more? They're using old technology that deserves to die. Good riddance.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by jeremiah_eng:

If they want it to be by usage, then it should be ENTIRELY about usage. None of this $50 for your line and some usage, then a ridiculous amount of money when you go over that. Make it like gas/electricity and only charge people what they use.

That is NOT how gas and electric companies charge for service. All the utilities charge a basic flat fee just to have the connection. And then they charge a VARIABLE rate based on how much you use in a month. Use over a certain amount and the rate changes and most utilities also vary variable rates based on time of year as well.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

Re: UBB

Funny, my hydro has no flat rate. I shut off power in the summer, go away for 2 mths, there's $0 to pay.
I don't fill up on heating oil, I don't pay, again no flat rate.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

Re: UBB

said by EUS:

Funny, my hydro has no flat rate. I shut off power in the summer, go away for 2 mths, there's $0 to pay.
I don't fill up on heating oil, I don't pay, again no flat rate.

Do they charge you a reconnection fee for your power when you return?

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

Re: UBB

I'm not disconnected, I power off the main.
Oil is on demand, when they pass by they try to fill, and the tanks are still full, no more oil goes in, they cannot charge.
So no flat rate, all usage based.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

Re: UBB

said by EUS:

I'm not disconnected, I power off the main.
Oil is on demand, when they pass by they try to fill, and the tanks are still full, no more oil goes in, they cannot charge.
So no flat rate, all usage based.

Interesting. Here in Windsor EnWin charges a base meter fee per month, regardless of use as long as the account is active. Same goes for water, telephone and cable television.

trainwreck6

join:2010-09-21
off track
said by EUS:

Funny, my hydro has no flat rate. I shut off power in the summer, go away for 2 mths, there's $0 to pay.
I don't fill up on heating oil, I don't pay, again no flat rate.

Maybe I should bone up on my francais et demanager au Quebec.

And vote Bloc Quebecois? Hmmmm....

Ah, it's Montreal, you can kind of wing it there

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

Re: UBB

Bonin' up on french is easy, and terrific fun with a french girlfriend.

trainwreck6

join:2010-09-21
off track

1 recommendation

Re: UBB

said by EUS:

Bonin' up on french is easy, and terrific fun with a french girlfriend.

;)

milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
Nationalizing the electrical grid was probably the single most important contribution of Quebec's Quiet Revolution. The government spent a fortune buying out all the large private companies AND building huge hydro-electric dams to meet Quebec's growing needs for power.

Result: Quebec has some of the lowest and most stable electrical rates in North America. No flat rate plus usage fee combo, no peak hour billing, reliable service, and very few blackouts.

Now applying UBB to electricity is understandable since the huge amount of power that goes through the electrical grid does have a direct effect on the overall condition of the equipment. In fact, we were the pioneers in 735 KV power line delivery systems.

But the Internet? Am I to believe that the flow of data -- which involves minute amounts of electrical current -- actually wears out network equipment? That just doesn't make sense! TekSavvy and Cogent for example can offer unlimited service with no ill effects on their equipment. What's so special about Bell that their infrastructure suddenly breaks down whenever I try to watch a YouTube video?

You know what? If there's an election this spring, I'm very tempted to run on a mandate to nationalize broadband just like Australia is doing right now! Wire up everyone across the nation, and sell access to this network to any and all ISPs out there, each billed ONLY on the speed they purchase, and NOT on how much data actually goes through the freakin' tubes!

It's actually pretty easy to run for office in a national election. You need to be a Canadian citizen 18 years and over, have at least 100 qualified voters nominate you as a candidate, and leave a $1,000 deposit with Elections Canada which will be returned to you once you've filed your donations and expenses reports.

Okay, enough ranting for now. I need a hundred nominators! And if I get elected, I will present a private member's bill to nationalize the last mile nationwide!

One catch though.

My biggest opponent in my riding is... Gilles Duceppe!
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com (click "Watch Live!")
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: UBB

It's a good point. Nationalizing utility services has generally resulted in better services. But conservatives across the West will always try their hardest to privatize things and charge more money, even if modern technology and wealth allows them to live lives of perfect comfort.

There is something seriously deficient about human genetics that results in a significant segment of the population driven entirely by greed and a lust for power.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by jeremiah_eng:

UBB by itself is not entirely evil. The way the Canadian telcoms are trying to implement it is though.

They're jealous of the multiple hundred $ bills the wireless phone companies get on a regular basis.
--
The shortest distance between 2 points adds 1.5 stars to T. want $25? solve »coord.info/GC20A37 for me

Jojo

@174.3.160.x

Re: UBB

Three of the major telecom providers in Canada are also cell phone providers. Rogers, Bell, TELUS. And soon enough Shaw will be in on it too.

badabing11

@caneris.com

Get rid of CRTC

Cancel all services with Bell and Rogers En mass for 3 months starting now.

cheers