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Guess...that just shows how many people have iPhones on Verizon....Nuff said... | |
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Re: Guess...And if a majority of VZW iPhone buyers were already VZW smartphone users, there is really no new network traffic. | |
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 scavio
Premium Member
join:2001-07-14
Melmac |
scavio
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 12:22 pm
Massive ETF...$200 or so for an ETF seems like a good deal when compared to not being able to use your device to the fullest. Might just be me though.
I would suspect that once iPhone 5 comes out, there will be plenty of people jumping ship. Especially if rumors are correct and they are going with a 4" screen and dual core on the high end phone. | |
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|  djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:4 |
djrobx
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 12:25 pm
Re: Massive ETF...It's $325 if you bought an iPhone 4. | |
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Re: Massive ETF...$325 pro-rated at $10 a month.... | |
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del ftl
Anon
2011-Feb-15 12:41 pm
Re: Massive ETF...And the minimum i've seen an iphone 4 sell for is 400 dollars (decent condition). ETF for 10 months plus 200 for new vzw iphone will be about even or may possibly make money on the switch.
The EFT isnt keeping anyone away.
I've talked with dozens of ATT iphone users and none of them are staying with ATT because of ETF's | |
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wheel_218
Anon
2011-Feb-15 1:17 pm
Re: Massive ETF...Nah, I don't agree at all, the ETF is keeping plenty away, especially since a lot of them are on family plans, and not all phones on the family plans hold their value (e.g. not all the phones are iphones) enough to offset the combined EFT. | |
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|  C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ ·Cox HSI
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to scavio
said by scavio:$200 or so for an ETF seems like a good deal when compared to not being able to use your device to the fullest. Might just be me though.
I would suspect that once iPhone 5 comes out, there will be plenty of people jumping ship. Especially if rumors are correct and they are going with a 4" screen and dual core on the high end phone.
It is when you have to pay the ETF, (possibly) return the phone, and then buy a new phone with a new provider, at probably full price. And iPhones can go for $800 a pop (MSRP for a 64GB one). It's quite a compound of costs there. There's also the fact that any on grandfathered unlimited plans will lose that privilege when leaving, and never get it back. | |
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| |  Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 ·AT&T U-Verse
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Gbcue
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 3:49 pm
Re: Massive ETF...said by C0deZer0:said by scavio:$200 or so for an ETF seems like a good deal when compared to not being able to use your device to the fullest. Might just be me though.
I would suspect that once iPhone 5 comes out, there will be plenty of people jumping ship. Especially if rumors are correct and they are going with a 4" screen and dual core on the high end phone.
It is when you have to pay the ETF, (possibly) return the phone, and then buy a new phone with a new provider, at probably full price. And iPhones can go for $800 a pop (MSRP for a 64GB one). It's quite a compound of costs there. There's also the fact that any on grandfathered unlimited plans will lose that privilege when leaving, and never get it back. You don't return the phone. When you pay the ETF, the phone is yours. | |
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| | |  JohnInSJ
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA |
JohnInSJ
Premium Member
2011-Feb-16 1:14 pm
Re: Massive ETF...said by Gbcue:You don't return the phone. When you pay the ETF, the phone is yours.
Yeah, but it's not going to work on anything but AT&T/GSM. So, you're buying a new iPhone on VZ. The musical chairs don't start (the 16 million iPhone users on AT&T become free agents) until June 2012. You know, when the world ends (and all the iP4 users on AT&T are out of contract + the new wizbang iPhone 6 is out. | |
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to scavio
said by scavio:$200 or so for an ETF seems like a good deal when compared to not being able to use your device to the fullest. Might just be me though. Why would you pay the ETF anyway if they aren't delivering the service they promised? Refuse to pay it. Go through their dispute resolution process and drag it all the way to arbitration if you have to. Most wireless contracts have such a provision in the event of disputes and at least in the case of Verizon it's the carrier that pays for the arbitration proceeding. Guess what? It'll cost them more than the ETF is worth and they'll likely drop it before it gets that far. There's really no excuse to put up with shoddy service just because of an ETF. Fight them on it. It'll be a royal PITA but with enough persistence you'll win. Here's the relevant bits of Verizon's agreement, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that AT&T has something similar: How Do I Resolve Disputes with Verizon Wireless?
WE HOPE TO MAKE YOU A HAPPY CUSTOMER, BUT IF THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED, THIS SECTION OUTLINES WHAT'S EXPECTED OF BOTH OF US.
YOU AND VERIZON WIRELESS BOTH AGREE TO RESOLVE DISPUTES ONLY BY ARBITRATION OR IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT. THERE'S NO JUDGE OR JURY IN ARBITRATION, AND THE PROCEDURES MAY BE DIFFERENT, BUT AN ARBITRATOR CAN AWARD THE SAME DAMAGES AND RELIEF, AND MUST HONOR THE SAME TERMS IN THIS AGREEMENT, AS A COURT WOULD. IF THE LAW ALLOWS FOR AN AWARD OF ATTORNEYS' FEES, AN ARBITRATOR CAN AWARD THEM TOO. WE ALSO BOTH AGREE THAT:
...
(4) AS PART OF YOUR AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, WE PROVIDE YOU WITH A FREE INTERNAL MEDIATION PROGRAM. IN OUR MEDIATION PROGRAM, WE ASSIGN SOMEONE WHO'S NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE DISPUTE (THOUGH POSSIBLY FROM OUR COMPANY) TO HELP BOTH SIDES REACH AN AGREEMENT. THAT PERSON HAS ALL THE RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS OF A MEDIATOR. NOTHING SAID IN THE MEDIATION CAN BE USED LATER IN AN ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT. IF YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE, PLEASE CONTACT US AT VERIZONWIRELESS.COM OR THROUGH CUSTOMER SERVICE. IF YOU'D LIKE TO START THE MEDIATION PROCESS, PLEASE GO TO VERIZONWIRELESS.COM OR CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR A MEDIATION REQUEST FORM TO FILL OUT, AND MAIL IT TO US AT THE ADDRESS SHOWN ON THE FORM. OR IF YOU'D PREFER TO START THE ARBITRATION PROCESS, PLEASE CONTACT THE AAA OR BBB FOR THE FORMS YOU'LL NEED TO SUBMIT.
(5) IF YOU OPT FOR THE MEDIATION PROGRAM AND TAKE PART IN AT LEAST ONE MEDIATION SESSION BY PHONE, BUT WE AREN'T ABLE TO SETTLE THE DISPUTE BETWEEN US, WE'LL PAY ANY FILING FEE THAT THE AAA OR BBB CHARGES YOU FOR ARBITRATION OF THE DISPUTE. IF THAT ARBITRATION PROCEEDS, WE'LL ALSO PAY ANY ADMINISTRATIVE AND ARBITRATOR FEES CHARGED LATER, AS WELL AS FOR ANY APPEAL TO A PANEL OF THREE NEW ARBITRATORS (IF THE ARBITRATION AWARD IS APPEALABLE UNDER THIS AGREEMENT). | |
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Re: Massive ETF...about forced arbitration agreements: they have been shot down over and over in courts around the country. You can easily go to court past small claims court if you wish, without anything happening to you. | |
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Re: Massive ETF...I'm sure you can.
My point was though that you can leverage this agreement AGAINST them. How much do you think it costs them to pay for that arbitration proceeding? How much money is the time of their employees/attorneys who would have to attend such a hearing worth? I'm willing to bet it's more than the value of your ETF.
There's no reason at all to pay an early termination fee if you aren't receiving the service you contracted for. Stand up for yourselves for heavens sake. I wouldn't tolerate a company bending me over and trying to charge me money for leaving them after they failed to deliver the product I was paying for. | |
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lolThere's been a group in the Verizon DSL forum that screams daily how the iPhone's been slowing the copper tubes down at night.
Do you guys really think so because I think it's absolutely preposterous. | |
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| djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:4 |
djrobx
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 12:33 pm
Re: lolSo may new phones, so many installations of Angry Birds from home wifi connections. Plausible!  | |
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| |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 1:12 pm
Re: lolsaid by djrobx:So may new phones, so many installations of Angry Birds from home wifi connections. Plausible! Who needs Wifi when you have unlimited data? | |
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Re: lolThis is why we didn't switch. We have unlimited data with ATT. I'm not sure I can trust Verizon to keep me grandfathered into a unlimited plan. | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 1:50 pm
Re: lolsaid by Uncle Paul:This is why we didn't switch. We have unlimited data with ATT. I'm not sure I can trust Verizon to keep me grandfathered into a unlimited plan. You shouldn't trust AT&T then either. I had one of their original unlimited data plans from 2005 and even when I was outside of contract they decided to change it to a capped plan. | |
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Re: lolYou're correct, but the difference is ATT at least has gone on the record once saying if you have the unlimited service and keep it while just upgrading the phone you're grandfathered. I don't remember seeing Verizon saying that. | |
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| | | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 2:06 pm
Re: lolsaid by Uncle Paul:You're correct, but the difference is ATT at least has gone on the record once saying if you have the unlimited service and keep it while just upgrading the phone you're grandfathered. I don't remember seeing Verizon saying that. No to be too pedantic but what can you do when AT&T does decide to renege? You can remind them that they promised unlimited data and they will just laugh. I highly doubt there is any legal weight behind that promise. | |
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| | | | | | |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2 |
N3OGH
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 2:38 pm
Re: lolpnh, they won't renege, they promise!
Oh, and these aren't the Droids you're looking for.
Move along.....move along..... | |
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to Uncle Paul
said by Uncle Paul:I'm not sure I can trust Verizon to keep me grandfathered into a unlimited plan.
Has there ever been a documented case of Verizon taking away a grandfathered plan from someone? My employer is still on a grandfathered America's Choice plan that hasn't been offered in six or seven years. We also have one PCMCIA data card that is still unlimited, bought it before the 5GB caps were imposed. | |
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Re: lolpnh102, you're absolutely correct and I'm sure my reasoning is completely irrational.
Crookshanks, I don't know but I guess by your understanding there hasn't been.
If the unlimited data plans are the same and the plans are the same I would imagine the only thing keeping me would be the weight I'm giving to ATT U-Verse which is starting to roll out here. I'm just not sure if I can handle only having 4 HD feeds. I moved from an area that has outstanding Comcast service to a city that has the worst Comcast service and equipment I think I've ever seen. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a worst DVR interface than the Scientific Atlanta. | |
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| | |  Murph1
join:2005-09-02
New London, CT |
to pnh102
Most of the Wifi I use (including my home) is faster than 3G. | |
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| | | gigahurtz
Premium Member
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
kudos:2 |
to pnh102
Those who prefer not to download at slower than dirt speeds  | |
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| Murph1
join:2005-09-02
New London, CT |
to HaloFans
Doubtful, but smart iPhone users would be on (faster) wifi as much as possible, as opposed to 3G. | |
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| N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2 |
to HaloFans
Where's the picture of the guy in the Tin Foil hat that Karl puts on the front page on a regular basis? Oh, here it is..... | |
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|  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
1 edit |
to HaloFans
said by HaloFans:There's been a group in the Verizon DSL forum that screams daily how the iPhone's been slowing the copper tubes down at night.
Do you guys really think so because I think it's absolutely preposterous.
Yes I do and now that Verizon knows the impact of iPhone my DSL speeds are back to normal all day long. Edit; my download speed dropped last night again. quote:
According to the firm, they found virtually no change (four-tenths of 1 percent) in network performance after the iPhone arrived, as compared to a sample taken during a four-day period one week earlier.
Well duh; Verizon throttled down the network before the iPhone arrived. | |
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|  SeleniaGentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:3
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to HaloFans
Verizon overselling at the CO and shoddy maintainence on the actual copper are what have been slowing down the copper tubes. In my case, the copper is new and I have full sync, but see pathetic speeds around peak. Overnight hours and such are fine. Many aren't so lucky and get their sync "optimized" by Verizon, aka lowering your sync below what you paid for. The iphone has nothing to do with this. Computers, by nature, are more bandwidth intensive and open far morw connections. On the extreme end, look at BitTorrent. Even Netflix, for that matter. | |
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| | batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ |
batterup
Premium Member
2011-Feb-16 1:48 pm
Re: lolsaid by Selenia:Verizon overselling at the CO and shoddy maintainence on the actual copper are what have been slowing down the copper tubes. In my case, the copper is new and I have full sync, but see pathetic speeds around peak.
Most people with the intermittent slow download are getting good speeds between their modem and DSLAM; the ones that aren't are told they have a loop proble. I wonder if the new 4G could be causing the slow network downloads. It was introduced last year about the time the slow download started. These speeds suck some massive data through those sticky tubes. | |
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mleland
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Westwood, CA |
mleland
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 12:32 pm
Switched on launch day...I dumped my iphone 3g on ATT as fast as I could on VZW launch day. I was a LONG time VZW(GTE) customer before I went to ATT for the iphone 3g. I was way out of contract with ATT and I got very tired of going to sporting events in the SF Bay Area (yes even to AT&T park!) and seeing all other providers phones working fine and my nice new iphone 3g was as useful as a door stop. I did find that I could turn off 3g and use "Edge" but there were some events where even that option failed to get the phone to work in any way(calls\txt\data). Also I travel by car around a lot of Northern CA. Several areas I would have no signal on my att phone and my friends vzw phone would have full signal. Ohh and the local ATT store stated to me that "there will likely be no more 3g deployments in the area". VZW upgraded all of the towers in this same area to 3g 2 or 3 years ago. I love my VZW iphone  | |
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| pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 12:42 pm
Re: Switched on launch day...said by mleland:I was way out of contract with ATT and I got very tired of going to sporting events in the SF Bay Area (yes even to AT&T park!) and seeing all other providers phones working fine and my nice new iphone 3g was as useful as a door stop. That's so sad it's funny. Guess AT&T thinks that naming rights for a playground are more important than improving coverage. | |
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Waiting on iPhone 5I may switch back to VZW for iPhone 5.
AT&T, FIX YOUR GODDAMN NETWORK! | |
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amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America
kudos:1 ·Cox HSI
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amungus
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 1:04 pm
I have a feelingthat Verizon's network could handle all of the AT&T "defectors" without much issue...
Either way, sure is quiet in here. Where are all the posts about how bad Verizon's network would suck with an iPhone?
Hmm... maybe the TDMA based GSM network AT&T uses has just sucked all along? I mean, you can't really fix something if it's inherently crap to begin with.
I just hope that VoLTE doesn't turn out to be a disaster. | |
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still can't......talk on the phone and browse the web on Verizon. I can talk, text, and web surf all at the same time with the IPhone on AT&T, so why cant you do that on verizon? no phone on verizon can. | |
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 SLD
Premium Member
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA |
SLD
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 1:40 pm
Quite a range of users Karl!600-700,000? That is quite a spread. I assume you meant 600,000-700,000? | |
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................Ill stick with my flawless AT&T service. I will never go back to VZ. | |
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Re: ................said by fieroloki:Ill stick with my flawless AT&T service. I will never go back to VZ.
Further proof that Texas should become its own country. Texas is one of the few places with flawless AT&T service. | |
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| | jca2050
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Dallas, TX |
jca2050
Premium Member
2011-Feb-15 4:30 pm
Re: ................Dallas might, when we went on vacation to South Padre (south Texas) everyone else had AT&T with 1 bar or no service and I was sitting at max signal strength. | |
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can you hear me now?can you hear me now? no I cant hear you on verizon network lol. I will stick with my ATT service. | |
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Re: can you hear me now?I also have much better At&t service than I do Verizon. Must be an Ohio thing? | |
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Ya, ok.When there are actually close to the number of iphone users on vz that there are on att then get back to us.
Robust network, no. Try no voice & data at same time network.
- A | |
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fiosuser
Anon
2011-Feb-15 5:35 pm
Re: Ya, ok.said by FastiBook:When there are actually close to the number of iphone users on vz that there are on att then get back to us.
Robust network, no. Try no voice & data at same time network.
- A
How about YOU get back to us when at&t has as many android users as Verizon. Android uses a lot more data than Iphone. In fact data consumption will likely decrease if android users migrate to Iphone. Of course Verizon will be ahead of the curve with their LTE network, so its likely Verizon's network will not buckle the same way as at&t's did. But that's the point, at&t should've invested enough in their network to handle demand. If anything the at&t loyalists should be happy when the malcontents switch to Verizon as that should improve the network experience for the loyalists. | |
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 ·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
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missing the point...nationwide wireless networks are what makes the difference. this is not the same as the fiasco that is at&t / comcast who dont' really compete or choose to upgrade their networks (because competition drives upgrades). verizon already knows what it's customers want and design the networks to endure critical mass provisioning. at&t has lost it's way when it comes to remembering what rbocs USED to do in serving customers. this will play out further as data becomes the service sold & voice becomes the value-added service on the SAME LTE device.
**CDMA, GSM will fall by the wayside in the coming years as will hspda, and 3g networks for 4g (type) networks. Chipsets will be universal supporting 4g and LTE in the same device & be responsible for data as well as voice. | |
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fiosuser
Anon
2011-Feb-15 5:22 pm
Verizon vs at&tThe one thing I've noticed whenever I call someone who has at&t cellphone service is the static noise on at&t's network. I had some friends who claimed they never noticed, so we did a test. Using a FiOS Digital Voice landline, I called one friend's at&t cellphone. (We were all in the same room). I put the phone on speakerphone and immediately pointed out the background static
noise as soon as the call connects to the at&t network. Did the same thing and called my Verizon cellphone, no static. Did the test again to a Sprint cellphone, no static. Then we called from my Verizon cellphone to the at&t cellphone-background static noise. From Verizon cellphone to Sprint cellphone-no static. From Sprint cellphone to at&t cellphone-static.
Funny thing is no one noticed it until I pointed it out. I don't know if its just this area, but its noticeable the instant the call hits the at&t network and you can hear it in between the ringing. Its not enough to ruin the conversation, but its definitely not a quiet line like it is with Verizon.
If anyone can validate this claim, I'd like to know if anyone knows what the background noise is. | |
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