Several users have written in to note that AT&T is sending out notifications that their terms of service have changed. The update includes a large number of things AT&T users need to be made aware of, including new language addressing AT&T's new cap and overage plans, mandatory binding arbitration, mandatory migrations from legacy DSL to AT&T U-Verse service, and even language giving AT&T the right to terminate your service should you get angry about any of these changes and take it out on an AT&T representative.
The new TOS can be found here and acceptable use policy here, both designed to enforce AT&T's decision to begin capping DSL and U-Verse users in May, directing users to AT&T's new usage portal. Users in our forums note the TOS include language requiring you to upgrade to U-Verse (at potentially higher costs, though they'll forgo an ETF if you have to pay more and decide to leave).
The TOS also informs U-Verse users that if they agree to their AT&T contract they lose their ability to take part in a class action lawsuit, and instead must participate in binding arbitration -- a process overseen by AT&T-hired companies where consumers lose more often than not. Judges time, time, andtime again have told ISPs this isn't legal, and the case will soon be heard by the Supreme Court.
Should you not like any of these terms of service changes and decide to take it out on AT&T in a manner AT&T deems unprofessional, the company has embedded a bit in their terms of service allowing them to terminate your connection for bad behavior. According to the TOS, AT&T may terminate your service if
quote:you engage in conduct that is threatening, abusive or harassing to the AT&T or Yahoo employees, including, for example, making threats to physically harm or damage employee or company property; frequent use of profane or vulgar language; or repeatedly contacting our customer service representatives for reasons that do not pertain to our provisioning, maintenance, repair or general servicing of your high speed Internet access service after you have been asked to stop such conduct.
That provision may come in handy for AT&T when their caps go live May 2. All in all it's a fairly standard terms of service -- giving AT&T every possible right while eliminating most of yours.
" or repeatedly contacting our customer service representatives for reasons that do not pertain to our provisioning, maintenance, repair or general servicing of your high speed Internet access service after you have been asked to stop such conduct."
This cannot be legal.
· 2011-Mar-30 8:53 am: ·
Rob Premium Member join:2001-08-25 Miami, FL kudos:2
" or repeatedly contacting our customer service representatives for reasons that do not pertain to our provisioning, maintenance, repair or general servicing of your high speed Internet access service after you have been asked to stop such conduct."
This cannot be legal.
I think it is - I think it's considered harassment.
I know when I use to work for Comcast, the phone reps (local reps) had a handful of customers who constantly called to harass them. Yell, use profanity, and just waste their time. Of course you never want to hang up on a customer, but it's difficult to assist a customer when they have no intentions of wanting to be assisted.
Agreed. Back in the day, when I did my time in tech support for a regional ISP, we had the same thing. We knew who the abusers were, and we dreaded seeing them show up in the queue, but we did our best to be professional. After a couple of warnings, though, the issue would be kicked upstairs, and terminations did happen. We had one guy who was a particularly obnoxious ass. He'd call in with some manufactured problem, almost always something of his own creation, then he'd start cursing the tech who was trying to help him. This went on for months until he finally went too far, and he was terminated. The problem for him was that he lived in a small town, and we were the only ISP with a local POP. Not smart on his part.
Then we had a guy, who, between July and December, logged 91 calls to tech support. He wasn't abusive; we figured out that he was lonely and sometimes drunk. The techs initially took pity on him, and some even went to his house to help him, but, after a while, it just got to be too much. And, mind you, those 91 calls didn't include the calls to me in Business Services, nor did they include the calls he made to people's homes when he managed to find their numbers. We didn't terminate him, but he was told that he couldn't call support anymore. I'm sure that restriction would have been lifted after a while, but we got bought out and shut down before that happened.
So, as much as I disagree with what AT&T is doing, I can't fault them for this part of their TOS.
" or repeatedly contacting our customer service representatives for reasons that do not pertain to our provisioning, maintenance, repair or general servicing of your high speed Internet access service after you have been asked to stop such conduct."
This cannot be legal.
I think it is - I think it's considered harassment.
I know when I use to work for Comcast, the phone reps (local reps) had a handful of customers who constantly called to harass them. Yell, use profanity, and just waste their time. Of course you never want to hang up on a customer, but it's difficult to assist a customer when they have no intentions of wanting to be assisted.
While the "abuse department" reps can call and use threatening language at will, right ?
· 2011-Mar-30 9:41 am: ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI kudos:1
" or repeatedly contacting our customer service representatives for reasons that do not pertain to our provisioning, maintenance, repair or general servicing of your high speed Internet access service after you have been asked to stop such conduct."
This cannot be legal.
I think it is - I think it's considered harassment.
I know when I use to work for Comcast, the phone reps (local reps) had a handful of customers who constantly called to harass them. Yell, use profanity, and just waste their time. Of course you never want to hang up on a customer, but it's difficult to assist a customer when they have no intentions of wanting to be assisted.
While the "abuse department" reps can call and use threatening language at will, right ?
Where do you get that impression? I have never had a rep call me and dish out that kind of treatment. All in all, I would think that more customers are abusive than the reps at the company.
Where do you get that impression? I have never had a rep call me and dish out that kind of treatment. All in all, I would think that more customers are abusive than the reps at the company.
So if it did not happen to you, it does not exist ? The abusive ways of the CC "abuse department" encounters are well documented on the CC abuse thread in the CC forum.
Customers are abusive for a reason: bad service, overcharging, bait and switch and so on. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to honest customers than to sociopathic by design artificial constructs bent on profit at any cost called companies shown to be bending/breaking the law over and over again.
Let me give a clear example: I called TMobile regarding a problem with my phone. While on hold I was advised that the "call can be recorded at any time for review and training". I asked the rep if I could record the call myself for future reference and follow up and she said that she will hang up because that was company policy to hang up if the customer recorded the call.
Why are they allowed to record the call whenever they want and I cannot ?
· 2011-Mar-30 10:58 am: ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI kudos:1
Where do you get that impression? I have never had a rep call me and dish out that kind of treatment. All in all, I would think that more customers are abusive than the reps at the company.
So if it did not happen to you, it does not exist ? The abusive ways of the CC "abuse department" encounters are well documented on the CC abuse thread in the CC forum.
Customers are abusive for a reason: bad service, overcharging, bait and switch and so on. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to honest customers than to sociopathic by design artificial constructs bent on profit at any cost called companies shown to be bending/breaking the law over and over again.
Nope, not saying that at all. I am sure it does happen, but we should not give a free pass to any customer care rep or customer who is openly abusive. There is no free pass given to customers, and if you are giving one to customers because of poor service, thats horrible.
· 2011-Mar-30 11:02 am: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
Where do you get that impression? I have never had a rep call me and dish out that kind of treatment. All in all, I would think that more customers are abusive than the reps at the company.
So if it did not happen to you, it does not exist ? The abusive ways of the CC "abuse department" encounters are well documented on the CC abuse thread in the CC forum.
Customers are abusive for a reason: bad service, overcharging, bait and switch and so on. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to honest customers than to sociopathic by design artificial constructs bent on profit at any cost called companies shown to be bending/breaking the law over and over again.
Let me give a clear example: I called TMobile regarding a problem with my phone. While on hold I was advised that the "call can be recorded at any time for review and training". I asked the rep if I could record the call myself for future reference and follow up and she said that she will hang up because that was company policy to hang up if the customer recorded the call.
Why are they allowed to record the call whenever they want and I cannot ?
Customers are abusive because apparently their mommy and daddy didn't teach them any manners. There is no excuse for being abusive to representatives on the phone. They are just doing their job...get over it and stop being an ass to the people on the opposite end of the phone.
· 2011-Mar-30 11:12 am: ·
67845017 Premium Member join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL kudos:5
The problem comes in when they are stupid and can't understand simple concepts (which is pretty often). Raising a voice or being a little firm with them sometimes help to get to the right person faster. I've done it before. No name calling, yelling or threatening. Just a sharpening of the tone will help.
· 2011-Mar-30 11:28 am: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
The problem comes in when they are stupid and can't understand simple concepts (which is pretty often). Raising a voice or being a little firm with them sometimes help to get to the right person faster. I've done it before. No name calling, yelling or threatening. Just a sharpening of the tone will help.
Raising your voice or changing your tone does nothing but throw up the barrier between you and the rep. It's a very human response and reps are yes...human. Your best bet is to rephrase your statement or better yet if you aren't communicating well...nicely ask to speak to a supervisor....NICELY. You might even throw in there somewhere "hey look its not you but we're just not communicating on the same page...could I please speak to a supervisor as they may be able to better assist with this issue".
· 2011-Mar-30 11:46 am: ·
bionicRod Funkier than a mohair disco ball. Premium Member join:2009-07-06 united state kudos:2
Not many people I know are abusive on the first call. Call #5, however, after having been given wrong information, or the old runaround, and still not having the problem fixed be it billing or a tech issue or whatever, yeah patience tends to wear thin in normal human beings. Now the fact that if they deem you 'abusive' in regards to their poor service they can drop you as a customer, no matter if there is another carrier or not...well that just seems like horrible customer service policy by a company who knows full well it provides horrible customer service.
· 2011-Mar-30 11:59 am: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
You obviously have never worked as a CSR or on the phones for a large company lately. People think nothing of being foul mouthed, rude, abusive and/or threatening if they think it wil get them what they want NO MATTER how wrong they may be.
· 2011-Mar-30 12:42 pm: ·
bionicRod Funkier than a mohair disco ball. Premium Member join:2009-07-06 united state kudos:2
You obviously have never worked as a CSR or on the phones for a large company lately. People think nothing of being foul mouthed, rude, abusive and/or threatening if they think it wil get them what they want NO MATTER how wrong they may be.
I've worked in a call center, much smaller and in another industry, that had a 97% customer satisfaction rate. We provided the service they paid for. Very few customers had cause to get upset. When they did, we did our best to make them happy. Some people are crazy. Most are not.
In telecom and cable, I have been on the other end of the call center experience. My very valid complaints like being double billed have been met with csrs who simply didn't care, who were incompetent, or who straight up lied to get me off the phone. I had to call over and over, it took months to straighten out. Businesses should always err on the side of the customer. The telecom business is no different.
Your attitude of us vs. them (the ones who pay your paycheck) is the problem with the whole industry. I think you should find another line of work.
· 2011-Mar-30 2:19 pm: ·
rchandra Stargate Universe fan Premium Member join:2000-11-09 14225-2105
I worked for a BPO company with phone services as one of its offerings (mind you, as IT and not one of the reps). The reason some reps don't much care is a lot of them are pressured to reduce AHT. I think it's stupid, personally. Yes, phone/agent time can be expensive, but as my brother who worked for them (in Juno Tech Support) said, what would you rather have, someone like him who took the time to solve the problem in one call, or 5 to 10 calls where the AHT looks fabulous as a statistic, but have the customer peeved at getting only one step in a complicated procedure accomplished before having to hang up?
Of course, contrast that with another former client, who had service contracts with their customers, and didn't care HOW long the calls were. The statistics were available of course, but it was that client's policy basically to ignore that one. Their metric was more like average time case was open.
· 2011-Mar-30 5:51 pm: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
You obviously have never worked as a CSR or on the phones for a large company lately. People think nothing of being foul mouthed, rude, abusive and/or threatening if they think it wil get them what they want NO MATTER how wrong they may be.
I've worked in a call center, much smaller and in another industry, that had a 97% customer satisfaction rate. We provided the service they paid for. Very few customers had cause to get upset. When they did, we did our best to make them happy. Some people are crazy. Most are not.
In telecom and cable, I have been on the other end of the call center experience. My very valid complaints like being double billed have been met with csrs who simply didn't care, who were incompetent, or who straight up lied to get me off the phone. I had to call over and over, it took months to straighten out. Businesses should always err on the side of the customer. The telecom business is no different.
Your attitude of us vs. them (the ones who pay your paycheck) is the problem with the whole industry. I think you should find another line of work.
Actually I wasn't talking to you when I made that statement. I have no attitude of us vss them. You also made an assumption as to what I do for a living which is incorrect. I have however been in that position more than once in my life and I'll tell you something you can be a perfect angel to the person at the other end of the phone and they think nothing of gouging your eyes out verbally. Years ago people just didn't treat others like that over the phone no matter how bad the situation. Things are different now and you can have a 97% satisfaction rating and you will still have to deal with those monsters on a daily basis. Depending on your line of business maybe many times a day. People have lost all civility many adopting this Jerry Springer trailer trash mentality...it's really sad....and whats even more disturbing is they see nothing wrong with it.
With all due respect I've got decades of experience in dealing with the public...I don't need lectures from you. I take pride in all things I do in public and private when it comes to dealing with people and one thing you will never see me do is treat others the way I've seen people behave these days over the phone. It's actually shocking I wish I could share some examples....I really wish I could.
Again I stand by AT&T on THIS issue alone. I think what they have done is quite acceptable and long overdue.
· 2011-Mar-30 10:39 pm: ·
KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
You obviously have never worked as a CSR or on the phones for a large company lately. People think nothing of being foul mouthed, rude, abusive and/or threatening if they think it wil get them what they want NO MATTER how wrong they may be.
That's what the hang up is for.
I've had plenty of CSR's hang up (ooops, I mean accidently disconnect me) because I ask for their name or a supervisor, after explaining the recurring problem. Not yelling, not raising the voice, not cussing, but simply being told incorrect or false information, and so I ask to speak someone else. Now, usually this isn't a problem, but yes, I've had them just "Disconnect" me before. If I was a CSR and someone started getting abusive I'd be like "Thanks for calling" Click.
· 2011-Mar-30 6:49 pm: ·
Kearnstd Space Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ kudos:2
You obviously have never worked as a CSR or on the phones for a large company lately. People think nothing of being foul mouthed, rude, abusive and/or threatening if they think it wil get them what they want NO MATTER how wrong they may be.
that is because they are on the telephone. the customer calling in knows that rep cannot just hang up(well in some centers, in others they have procedures in place to allow reps to end overly abusive calls)
· 2011-Mar-31 11:57 am: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
You obviously have never worked as a CSR or on the phones for a large company lately. People think nothing of being foul mouthed, rude, abusive and/or threatening if they think it wil get them what they want NO MATTER how wrong they may be.
that is because they are on the telephone. the customer calling in knows that rep cannot just hang up(well in some centers, in others they have procedures in place to allow reps to end overly abusive calls)
Almost all have adopted "policies" on how to deal with situations like this. But it's a last resort option and still doesn't do much for the abusive behavior that leads up to the final dropping of the call and certainly nothing for the mental state of the rep who had to endure the abuse. We tend to forget that there is a real living, breathing and feeling human on the other end of the phone. No matter how hard they try not allow such abuse to affect them it does have an effect.
If a person did this to another person face to face in public it would be considered at minimum disorderly conduct and very easily could be considered assault. Both are offenses that can and do land people in jail each and every day. Apparently there is a significant number of people who think it's ok to act like this over the phone....well it isn't. Abuse is abuse any way you dish it out.
We tend to forget that there is a real living, breathing and feeling human on the other end of the phone.
Unless it's Verizon (landline) you're calling, in which case the thing you'll be talking to for the first 45+ min of the call will not be living, breathing, or feeling. But don't worry, once you finish jumping through all those prompts and re-enter your info at least 6 times you'll be connected to someone who is living, breathing, and feeling and who will be happy to enter another ticked for you which will promptly be closed the next day with no resolution or reason.
/me hopes he never has another problem with a FiOS connection...
/mackey
· 2011-Apr-1 3:48 pm: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
We tend to forget that there is a real living, breathing and feeling human on the other end of the phone.
Unless it's Verizon (landline) you're calling, in which case the thing you'll be talking to for the first 45+ min of the call will not be living, breathing, or feeling. But don't worry, once you finish jumping through all those prompts and re-enter your info at least 6 times you'll be connected to someone who is living, breathing, and feeling and who will be happy to enter another ticked for you which will promptly be closed the next day with no resolution or reason.
/me hopes he never has another problem with a FiOS connection...
/mackey
But in MOST cases that is not the fault of the person who trying to help you. Why take it out on them? There are far more productive methods to communicate your dissatisfaction with the company you are dealing with. Besides you want them to be your advocate and own the issue don't you? The best way to get that from them is to treat them with the dignity and respect they deserve.
The problem comes in when they are stupid and can't understand simple concepts (which is pretty often). Raising a voice or being a little firm with them sometimes help to get to the right person faster. I've done it before. No name calling, yelling or threatening. Just a sharpening of the tone will help.
Raising your voice or changing your tone does nothing but throw up the barrier between you and the rep.
There is already a "barrier" between me and people from India. I will do whatever is needed to talk to American support and stop wasting my time.
· 2011-Mar-30 12:00 pm: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
The problem comes in when they are stupid and can't understand simple concepts (which is pretty often). Raising a voice or being a little firm with them sometimes help to get to the right person faster. I've done it before. No name calling, yelling or threatening. Just a sharpening of the tone will help.
Raising your voice or changing your tone does nothing but throw up the barrier between you and the rep.
There is already a "barrier" between me and people from India. I will do whatever is needed to talk to American support and stop wasting my time.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would say something like that. Not surprising at all.
If we Americans are sooo greedy and you hate it here so much then why don't you pack your bags and get your ungrateful ass back to Germany. I'm getting pretty sick of your American bashing posts. If you hate us so much then do us all the favor and get your sad ass back home where apparently your kind is welcome. Not flaming here...just stating the obvious.
· 2011-Mar-31 12:43 am: ·
67845017 Premium Member join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL kudos:5
I agree. At some point though we'll just have to invade and fire up some gas chambers of our own (just like you guys did) and really take care of the smelly, lazy, two-faced problems once and for all.
Unfortunately, there's probably more than 6 million of them, so it may take a little more time.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would say something like that. Not surprising at all.
No, I am a German. American sudden love with these foul smelling, lazy and two faced population produces disgust.
Well, that was pleasant.
Werner, if you live in the US, please leave. Our quota of ignorant bigots is filled for now. We'll let you know when we need another one. Until then, please consider repeatedly throwing yourself down the stairs, you racist scumbag.
-Signed, The American People (aka: The Melting Pot)
I've been with AT&T for the last two and a half years or so, and haven't had to many problems on the service end of things. The problem is more or less value nowadays.
I orginally left Charter back in '08 because I was sick of their rate hikes and AT&T was a slightly better deal with their "high-end" DSL to Charter's low-end cable. Charter is really the only alternative in my area and AT&T seems to be in no rush to get U-Verse here. Now Charter's low-end speed has doubled in the last two years for basically the same price AT&T continues to charge for their best DSL. Plus the fact I've supposed to have been on a "special rate" of $40 instead of $45 a month since last September and have yet to have it show up on my bill despite 3 calls to their customer service since last Fall.
· 2011-Mar-31 8:48 am: ·
BHNtechXpert BHN Staff VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:182
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would say something like that. Not surprising at all.
No, I am a German. American sudden love with these foul smelling, lazy and two faced population produces disgust.
Well, that was pleasant.
Werner, if you live in the US, please leave. Our quota of ignorant bigots is filled for now. We'll let you know when we need another one. Until then, please consider repeatedly throwing yourself down the stairs, you racist scumbag.
-Signed, The American People (aka: The Melting Pot)
Amen brother!!
· 2011-Mar-31 11:30 am: ·
Selenia Gentoo Convert Premium Member join:2006-09-22 Fort Smith, AR kudos:3
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would say something like that. Not surprising at all.
I don't often agree with WernerSchultz, but I fully agree with him here. I am sure not everyone in India is a bad tech or gives bad support, but most of these people are not properly trained on the product they provide service for. Try dealing with Verizon phone and DSL services. Those people make me want to scream and curse at the top of my lungs(but I stay professional), especially the hangups if those rude asses don't understand you properly. Priceless. I used to be a CSR and actually agree with the clause. There are extremes of both bad customers and bad customer service. Both situations should have appropriate recourse, if this situation is extreme. I would also like to see a clause that lets you out of contract, if an issue takes more than 5 calls to get satisfaction. We'll never see that.
· 2011-Mar-31 10:17 am: ·
67845017 Premium Member join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL kudos:5
The problem comes in when they are stupid and can't understand simple concepts (which is pretty often). Raising a voice or being a little firm with them sometimes help to get to the right person faster. I've done it before. No name calling, yelling or threatening. Just a sharpening of the tone will help.
No, now you are going too far the other way. Abuse happens when someone is frustrated and scared. Frustrated because they don't have a fraction of your understanding of the technology and scared because they think they are being denied something or they are convinced the service provider is trying to pull a fast one on them.
The problem is that the first is going to be the majority of your customers and the second comes from bad press, bad experiences in the past, and, yes, incompetent or unintelligible service techs.
I have found in my experience that it is vastly more efficient to totally ignore the rant and go to the heart of any question from a totally emotionless perspective. For most people, this enables them to realize that they are being an a** without being told outright that they are being an a** and that the information they are looking for is provided without resorting to treatment in kind; even a raised voice can cause some to go over the edge...
Technology can be a scary thing to many people and being honest and straight forward with all your replies makes a happier and more educated customer. Just keep it simple, as short as possible, and fill in some of the gaps in their knowledge along the way while keeping your own emotions out of the mix.
True story: It's not necessarily that the rep is stupid. It's probably their first day taking live calls, and they have not figured out the system; despite weeks of inadequate training. As far as "getting to the right person"; they are told they ARE the right person. If they are stuck, they pretty much have to end up frustrating the customer more, by getting out of it.
The problem comes in when they are stupid and can't understand simple concepts (which is pretty often). Raising a voice or being a little firm with them sometimes help to get to the right person faster. I've done it before. No name calling, yelling or threatening. Just a sharpening of the tone will help.
· 2011-Mar-31 1:29 pm: ·
67845017 Premium Member join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL kudos:5
I guess I get tired of the mindlessness of some these people that are just reading scripts and not thinking about the actual problem and how to really help. I've had the same issue with US support in the past. I'm not talking simply about overseas call centers.
For example, yesterday I called T-Mobile to get a non-published lower priced data plan for my Android phone. The guy supposedly tried and said that the plans weren't available and one had expired just a few days ago. Since he spent some time trying different things to help me, I figured it must be something he was unable to access. So I thanked him, hung up and called back 10 seconds later and spoke to retentions. Got hooked up immediately. There was no need to be confrontational in this case.
On the other hand, I spoke to some woman about two years ago regarding a problem I was having with my WOW cable service. I ended up having to treat her like she was mentally deficient since she kept asking stupid questions and suggesting ignorant solutions. And then, she refused to transfer me saying that if she couldn't help, then the supervisor couldn't either. That's when I went off on her. She finally transferred me to a supervisor and the issue was resolved (modem was failing). If I hadn't taken that position, my issue wouldn't have been resolved.
I pay for the service, I expect it to work reliably. The fact they are doing their job does not justify the company not delivering what was purchased. They are the "face" of the company, do not paint them as victims.
Customers are abusive for a reason: bad service, overcharging, bait and switch and so on.
You've obviously never dealt with the public. People are idiots. Maybe only one in 50 is an abusive jerk, but you can count on them to take up ten times as much of your time as a normal person and push you to where you'd like to crawl over the counter and teach them some manners.
Customers are abusive for a reason: bad service, overcharging, bait and switch and so on.
No, customers are abusive because they are abusive fuckers.
Example, an AT&T example at that, they have a customer out of Houston who back in the early days of DSL, like 1999 through 2004 or so, constantly bitching and berating agents over the upstream provider of bandwidth, demanding that the CEO call him back about it, to be transferred to the NOC directly, etc. etc. etc. He even registered an oh so funny email address, fucksbc@swbell.net. These calls wouldn't stop and we couldn't do anything about it. So we worked within the confines of the system, e.g. pulling his account for that email address. I bounced him once because he submitted a false name to the company to setup his account, Bill Gates.
Then there is the crazy loser in Berkley, CA, who would call nonstop over the Usenet server, asking the same question over and over and over again about retention and binary completion. By the time he got to me, I smacked him over the head with the TOS best effort clause, I think it stuck.
And I'm not even counting the infinite number of crazed people calling and screaming for no reason whatsoever.
Yeah, some get screwed and get frustrated. But the vast majority of abusive callers are just fucking nuts.
Actually, go ahead and record without asking her. Last I checked by informing you that her company was going to record the call she gave implied/assumed consent to be recorded by continuing with the call. She knew the call was being recorded, and that's what matters. ANY TIME the other caller tells you that they're recording you (including automated messages during prompts) at that time BOTH PARTIES are aware the call is being recorded, which makes it legal in all states. Some states don't even require the consent of all parties, just one.
I got into a fight with a collections agency on this once, and the woman there got angry because I didn't ask her if I could record. All she did was huff and puff when it was pointed out she gave consent when her company stated it recorded calls. I had fun with them because it was over a bogus medical debt anyway. Took the whole thing all the way to the court room just so I could give them the legal middle finger.
Dont say anything next time, that mesage you can state that they advised you of recording and thus port parties wre aware and u was in your right to record as well.
Why are they allowed to record the call whenever they want and I cannot ?
Actually both parties have the right to record the call.
However in most states there is a requirement of consent & notification. The message you hear is the notification. Your staying on the line with them is your consent to be recorded.
You have the right to hang up if you don't want to be recorded, which is what they're doing when you inform them of same.
Granted, you probably need to be calling them to get the issue resolved so sure, it's a bit of a catch-22 but still.
Let me give a clear example: I called TMobile regarding a problem with my phone. While on hold I was advised that the "call can be recorded at any time for review and training". I asked the rep if I could record the call myself for future reference and follow up and she said that she will hang up because that was company policy to hang up if the customer recorded the call.
Why are they allowed to record the call whenever they want and I cannot ?
Actually a good lawyer would tell you to begin the recording, before the part they tell you "calls me be recorded at any time" In my mind that is actually a statement, giving you permission to record the call; rather than most people see it as some kind of warning. You cant see punctuation in a statement like this. You shouldnt even need to legally provide warning to the CSR that the call is being recorded, because they know that all calls can be recorded. Of course you state laws about recorded telecom conversations so definitely look them up.
· 2011-Mar-30 8:42 pm: ·
Pirate515 Premium Member join:2001-01-22 Brooklyn, NY
I know when I used to work for Comcast, the phone reps (local reps) had a handful of customers who constantly called to harass them. Yell, use profanity, and just waste their time. Of course you never want to hang up on a customer, but it's difficult to assist a customer when they have no intentions of wanting to be assisted.
I used to do phone support for about a year and thankfully, they allowed us to employ 3 strike rule when it came to abusive customers and/or profanity.
STRIKE 1: Sir/Madam, I would appreciate if you refrain from using this kind of language. STRIKE 2: Sir/Madam, this is the second time I have to tell you to refrain from using this kind of language. If this continues, I will hang up on you. STRIKE 3: Sir/Madam, I have asked you several times to stop using this kind of language, but it is obvious that you have no intention of stopping. I am hanging up. Click.
Sadly, some companies do not allow you to hang up on a customer no matter what kind of abuse they lay down on you. Get caught hanging up for whatever reason, and you better be prepared to find yourself another job.
One of my friends also does tech support for a cable company which I shall not name and allegedly, they are now recording all the calls. They used to randomly monitor some; however, after several bogus bomb threats and some death threats towards the phone reps they started recording everything. There is a limit on how long they retain recordings (either 30 or 90 days), but if you are a rep and someone on the other end of the line threatens to kill you and you notify your manager right away, they will pull the recording and the caller just might get a visit from his local PD. Of course, the laws governing recording of phone calls vary from state to state, so not all the companies may be allowed to do this.
C'mon, that's the LEAST offensive part of the TOS. If you are vulgar and abusive why the hell should they put up with you? I used to work for a local ISP back in the days when those were around. We'd drop customers who swore at us and abused our CSRs too. Ditto for my time working for an insurance agency.
It's just not worth putting up with someone who is going to swear and yell at you.
· 2011-Mar-30 9:28 am: ·
ptrowski Got Helix? Premium Member join:2005-03-14 Woodstock, CT kudos:5
" or repeatedly contacting our customer service representatives for reasons that do not pertain to our provisioning, maintenance, repair or general servicing of your high speed Internet access service after you have been asked to stop such conduct."
This cannot be legal.
No shirt, no shoes, no service.
A company has the right to refuse service to anyone.
I am just very surprised at the conversation going on in this thread.
On one hand, you have the users who believe that they have the right to verbally abuse customer care reps because they are not getting the service they are subscribing for. Apparently, if a product or service is not living up to its billing, then it is open season on the customer care reps or "the face of the company".
On the other hand you have people who say the common consumer is an idiot and customer care reps should be ready for abuse. These reps are there to take their licking and adjust accordingly.
Out of the spectrum entirely, you have someone like me, who believes that no one should be subject to abuse and both sides should just work to resolve the situation in an amicable manner. No one has any right to abuse a customer or a rep. If you believe you do, you are an idiot. End of story. Since when did common courtesy go out the door?
1. This shit is funny. Finally people get the picture. FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF... OR TRY TO YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.. STOP CALLING TO HARRASS..
Hopefully they don't charge for it more LOL.
Since I work for an ISP [Not ATT] wearing a lot of different hats I can attest that listening to customers bark and get angry about internet problems, really simple ones too, THEY REALLY DO NOT HAVE TO CALL TECH SUPPORT, and many of these things are issues they SHOULD SOLVE THEMSELVES.
This finally give power to the representatives over these douchebags that call up to harrass people and continue to do so because they are computer fools or just want to blame the ISP for all their problems.
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2. THOUGH, since I am a human being, unfortunately I have to be on the side of the consumers at this point. Support is support, but don't expect me to help you if you act like a prick and the issue is completely unrelated to the services.
This is going to piss so many people off now, because these reps are gonna pull out that ace anytime.
I switched nearing a year ago because AT&T drug their feet with U-Verse in our neighborhood, just like they did with DSL. I was stuck on 3Mbit with no hope of moving forward.
I had a project that required me download two sets of custom system DVD install images from a colleague's FTP server. It took 24 hrs for one set with AT&T, and 8 hrs on CC.
· 2011-Mar-30 5:05 pm: ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
The only reason that I can think they'll get away with such brazen acts is that their average customer simply doesn't read their TOS (or Broadband Reports, of course). They'll just accept.
Sad part is most customers never do read the tos, and yes I worked for many yrs for tech support been abused by customer over the phone over and over again. I like to help people but it is hard to when a few are screaming so load you have pull the headset off to not lose your hearing. I try everything but sometimes I had to give them warning that I have to let the call go. But most company you can't do it. so that part I think should be there but should be modify to try to workout issue first before going that far. The rest of the TOS is just illegal.
· 2011-Mar-30 10:14 am: ·
Camelot One MVM join:2001-11-21 Greenwood, IN kudos:3
The only reason that I can think they'll get away with such brazen acts is that their average customer simply doesn't read their TOS (or Broadband Reports, of course). They'll just accept.
Its not just that they don't read it, most never even get notified. I myself haven't received anything in the mail or by email alerting me to these major changes. If I log in to the website I can view the quick details of the bill without ever seeing it. It's not until I go to "view full bill" that I even see the note buried at the bottom of it alerting me to changes. And even then, there is no mention of the new caps, just their contrary-to-court-rulings demand for binding arbitration.
If not for this site, I wouldn't know the caps were coming, what they were, or that I might face charges for exceeding them. Fortunately I do, so I (very politely) called and put in a disconnect order today.
Why would anybody want to be with a company like this? I just cancelled my iphone subscription because att is out of control. Thank god , I didnt switch to att uverse, like I was going to do. That was close. Att to me , is just pure evil. This is one person they will never have as a customer again.
at&t will see fewer and fewer customers in the coming years... not more and more with uverse deployment. if your a current at&t customer, you should cancel your account pronto! wireless too!
Wow it sure looks like AT&T is getting back to the philosophy they held in the 50's, 60's and 70's before they were broken up, where the only right the customer has is to pay whatever they say to pay for whatever service they say you can have - or shut up..
Is AT&T management under the delusion that they are still a monopoly?
He wants to bring the Death Star to it's knees. Good thing he has an iPhone4-that spank'n new dual-core Atrix can't do 4G yet. Hear it's hobbled to like 300Kbs upload speed.Imagine that!
I worked for SBC, who became the 'new' at&t for ten years ... I must say, that while some of the products they have USED to be the absolute best around. They are certianly going to die a horrible death. By their own hands!!
Poor middle management is forcing all of the really, really talented folks out of the company. Horray for competitors huh?!
As they wallow in these last few years of thier own existance, I hope many, many more piss poor middle managers get to experience eating my shorts. Sporks will be provided Condiments will be provided by request, for an additional fee.
Lerch & Darth Felo, specifically, may feel free to enjoy a complementary shorts feast!
It's a good thing I fired at&t as my communications provider! They'll NEVER see another fracking red cent!
I started at a company in 2000, moved all of our services off of ATT except for our data plan, stupid people werent willing to change their ip's, any who, and went with Southwestern Bell, which became SBC. Customer service was awesome, billing rarely had any problems, and if it did I had a dedicated account manager to answer all my questions, etc.
Then SBC 'bought' ATT, then they changed their name back to ATT. Wasn't more then 3 months later, and I had 4 new account managers, all of which wouldn't take my call, and billing issues out the wazoo. They wouldn't even return my call when I wanted to spend about $3000 a month more on new service that we needed.
Also everyone I knew that was classified as 'old SBC' were leaving or were being asked to leave.
mandatory migrations to U-Verse force tv? what about directv
mandatory migrations to U-Verse force tv? what about directv att bundles?
at least they have MLB network now but it's U-300 that forces you to get buy stars and showtime. Also to get what about directv people? U-Verse has higher box rent fess, HD extra costs more, lower bit rates, and that 3-4 HD limit.
also to get directv choice extra has you need to get U-300 for (Fox Business Network, Investigation Discovery, NASA TV (nasa tv is FTA), PBS Kids Sprout, Discovery Fit & Health, ION Life, CMT Pure Country, MLB network, NBA TV, and Reelz Channel).
and then sports pack or U-450 for (NHL Network, TVG, CBS College Sports Network and The Tennis Channel)
Just signed the paperwork for a Comcast connection
I've told AT$T every month for 3 years that I would cancel my DSL if they implemented caps. The reason for calling AT$T every month? They would constantly put bogus charges on my bill. I think they were doing this just to get people to call in so they could try to sell them U-Verse. I was actually just about to pull the trigger on getting U-Verse inet & TV. Yeah, I know Comcast has caps also. It's like voting for politicians . . . you rarely vote FOR someone you like, you vote AGAINST the one you hate the most!
So put me down for 1 vote for Comcast Business class service.
So put me down for 1 vote for Comcast Business class service.
Can you just sign up for Comcast business class service, or do you actually have to have a business? Just for fun, I asked Cablevision/Optimum Online about a business account and was told that you have to provide the tax ID number of your business in order to qualify.
Strangely, even though my area is served by Cablevision, Comcast just sent me a letter hyping their business service and when I checked the web site, it said it was available in this area.
Re: Just signed the paperwork for a Comcast connection
They didn't ask for a tax ID from me but I could provide them with one if needed. Of course, the Comcast rep I'm working with probably doesn't care since I've committed 3 of my business clients to him since AT$T made their announcement of caps a couple of weeks ago. And, with those 3 business accounts goes 7 individual DSL accounts all with AT$T. So that's about $2,500.00 per month in billing so far that AT$T is losing. Another customer is stuck with an AT$T T1 line (at $800 per month) for another 7 months on contract then they're gone also. I've actually had a Comcast residential net connection for the last year as a backup to the DSL but have never had to use.
· 2011-Mar-30 4:37 pm: ·
93388818 It's cool, I'm takin it back Premium Member join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX
"Thomas wife being paid large salary of major corporation. Liberty Consulting, Inc., which filed incorporation papers in mid-November 2010. The company's website states that clients can use Thomas's “experience and connections” to help “with “governmental affairs efforts” and political donation strategies."
1) "The Roberts court, or really the Bush court since President George W. Bush appointed two of the most conservative members, including Roberts, ruled that corporations and unions have a First Amendment right to use their general treasuries and profits to spend freely on political ads for and against specific candidates. That ruling overturned previous Supreme Court precedents and well-established federal law."
2) "In a petition filed with the Justice Department last month, the advocacy group said past appearances at the Koch brothers’ retreat by Justice Thomas and Justice Antonin Scalia, along with the conservative political work of Justice Thomas’s wife, had created a possible perception of bias in hearing the case."
The Citizens United decision, with Justice Thomas’s support, freed corporations to engage in direct political spending with little public disclosure. The Koch brothers have been among the main beneficiaries, political analysts say.
That pretty much sums it up. As a T-Mobile customer going on six years, I am absolutely sick at the thought of being forced to deal with AT&T at some point, with very few alternatives.
· 2011-Mar-30 10:09 am: ·
OldschoolDSL Premium Member join:2006-02-23 Indian Orchard, MA
About a year ago I dumped ATT for bad customer service. I spent about 1K in ETF & new equipment from the new provider. Under normal circumstances I would've stuck it out til the contract ended but not this time. I was so upset with them.
U-Verse is available in my area but I don't want it. It's more then what I pay now by at least a 1/3. Their coverage in NYC sucks. I'm not a fan of the iphone so they can keep them. 4G support is a joke.
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Little hope of fair treatment for citizens with Roberts and Thomas kissing up to corporations.
