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Rogers Nets Half Of All Canadian Neutrality Complaints
And Most are Related to WOW Throttling Screw Up

Back in 2009, Canada passed network neutrality rules designed to protect consumers from anti-competitive treatment of network traffic, though at the time there was a lot of concern about the rules being adequately enforced. Canadian Law Professor Michael Geist was curious what was being done for consumers who claims they've had a problem with their ISP, so he filed an Access to Information request to gain access to the collected CRTC data.

What he found was that CRTC investigations into complaints often are very superficial in nature and the complaints are often dismissed without serious inquiry. While nearly all Canadian ISPs saw complaints, Rogers Communications saw the most (nearly half) says Geist:

quote:
In fact, the CRTC has frequently dismissed complaints as being outside of the scope of the policy, lacking in evidence, or sided with Internet provider practices. Rogers Communications has been the target of nearly half of all cases opened in response to net neutrality complaints. In recent months, there have been multiple complaints arising from bandwidth throttling of World of Warcraft, a popular multi-player online game. Rogers initially denied any wrongdoing, only to later acknowledge that there was a problem. The company promised to address the issue, though no consequences arose and it was not forced to publicly disclose the issue.
Many of the complaints appear to be instances where the ISP was being incompetent -- not malicious (though as a commenter correctly notes, denying the problem exists and penalizing the user for Rogers' own incompetence could be construed as such). In the Rogers WOW example, which we discussed at length last March, it's a result of Rogers not being competent enough to get their network management systems to work properly with the popular game. There's no competitive reason to throttle WOW, which outside of large patches really doesn't impact the network. Bell was also found accidentally throttling a storage-locker service.

While there's no doubt the CRTC isn't being particularly aggressive or transparent, it's not really clear that you can call incompetence a network neutrality violation. We've seen many cries of neutrality wolf over the years. Still, when there were actually were complaints that appear to hint at genuine violations, Geist insists that the CRTC's version of an investigation involved an e-mail or two to the ISP, who would then change their TOS but not really change their practices. Geist's hoping that the CRTC will ultimately publish all public complaints and problem resolutions "so that the issues obtain a public airing."
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AR

join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON

AR

Incompetence while charging service fees = malicious

Failure to provide expected service then denying there're problems while tacking on a 30 day notice of service termination required = malicious in my view.

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium Member
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

baineschile

Premium Member

Unite!

Unite the Horde, and storm the HQ!

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

HiVolt

Premium Member

Re: Unite!

said by baineschile:

Unite the Horde, and storm the HQ!

Not in Canada. We as a whole, are a nation of confused sheep.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

Re: Unite!

said by HiVolt:

said by baineschile:

Unite the Horde, and storm the HQ!

Not in Canada. We as a whole, are a nation of confused sheep.

MOST are confused sheep.
Not all of us though. Some of us are fighting.

heat84
DSLR Influencer
join:2004-03-11
Delray Beach, FL

heat84 to HiVolt

Member

to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

said by baineschile:

Unite the Horde, and storm the HQ!

Not in Canada. We as a whole, are a nation of confused sheep.

And America is your shepherd. So you're really screwed.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

36 complaints all providers over 2 yrs

There were only 36 complaints over 2 years for all providers, 1/2 of which were Rogers. Doesn't seem like there are many problems with so few complaints.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

Re: 36 complaints all providers over 2 yrs

said by FFH5:

There were only 36 complaints over 2 years for all providers, 1/2 of which were Rogers. Doesn't seem like there are many problems with so few complaints.

The problem with uninformed users is that they're having a problem, and don't know WHY its happening.

Calls to Technical Support usually result in "Its your computer" or "Its the website", and they consider the issue closed without bothering to actually look into the issue, or escalating it.

The fact that 36 complaints were made in under 2 years, is quite large considering most wouldn't know how to diagnose the cause of the problem, know the policies in place (ie what ISPs can and can't do), and then go that extra step towards actually MAKING the complaint with the CRTC, let alone being able to provide proof its happening.

Thats the problem. Most can't get the proof, and the onus is on the USER to prove it, and not the ISP that they're NOT doing it. I was able to get the proof of what Rogers was doing with WoW due to talks with Sr Blizzard reps who could see from their servers that Rogers was managing WoW traffic.

But most regular users wouldn't be able to get in touch with someone at a large organization to prove whats going on. So they just live with the problem.
Samgee
join:2010-08-02
canada

Samgee

Member

Left them for good.

I left them shortly after the Warcraft throttling started, and haven't looked back since. The service is great however the terms and restrictions are abusive. If you haven't done so yet, take the time to look for other ISP's in your area, you won't regret it.
LondonOntGuy
join:2004-05-12
London, ON

LondonOntGuy

Member

Re: Left them for good.

Years ago, when I had Robbers some of their retarded tech support reps would always blame me. I had one guy even go so far as to tell me I should "reformat and start over if I want it to work".

Not even Hell's India based "tech support" people would say something so stupid. Even if they did, it's not like I'd be able to understand them.

Brantford
@primus.ca

Brantford to Samgee

Anon

to Samgee
said by Samgee:

I left them shortly after the Warcraft throttling started, and haven't looked back since. The service is great however the terms and restrictions are abusive. If you haven't done so yet, take the time to look for other ISP's in your area, you won't regret it.

+1.

The independent ISPs typically offer better service and lower prices than the large incumbents. Vote with your wallet and encourage your friends and family to do the same.
slckusr
Premium Member
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC

slckusr

Premium Member

Re: Left them for good.

Do a lot of areas in canada have broadband competition, or is it more US style with 1 (national telco) or 2 (local cable) choices?

Brantford
@primus.ca

Brantford

Anon

Re: Left them for good.

said by slckusr:

Do a lot of areas in canada have broadband competition, or is it more US style with 1 (national telco) or 2 (local cable) choices?

The CRTC says there is "competition" although I think a reasonable person might hold a different view.

In my area, the choices are Rogers Cable (often called "Robbers") and Bell (known as "Bhell" or just "Hell") and various independents that wholesale service from the incumbents. I am fortunate that where I am (Brantford) there is also Primus which has its own DSLAM equipment and so my connection is not subjected to Bell's tampering. My service is not capped and the CSRs are located here in Canada, not someplace in India.

Primus reviews are mixed. Personally, I'm generally satisfied and will likely stay with Primus unless conditions change significantly.

Oinktastic
Let them use fibre
join:2005-08-24
Scarborough

Oinktastic to slckusr

Member

to slckusr
said by slckusr:

Do a lot of areas in canada have broadband competition, or is it more US style with 1 (national telco) or 2 (local cable) choices?

Different areas are serviced by different companies. But in general, there is a major cable company (cable internet service) and a major telco company (xDSL service) in each region.

The different regions are: Western Canada (Shaw cable vs. Telus xDSL), Ontario/Quebec (Rogers cable XOR Videotron cable XOR Cogeco cable vs. Bell xDSL), and then the Eastern provinces (Eastlink cable/Fiber and I'm not sure what else).

They pretend to compete with each other in the areas where they overlap, which is most areas in big cities and some rural areas, but a lot of rural areas are stuck on dial-up anyway. Competition isn't what it used to be. They raise prices and cut services in unison and claim it was for competitive reasons.

Most "broadband" plans are capped and throttled and the prices are being increased about twice a year now. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Brantford
@primus.ca

Brantford

Anon

Re: Left them for good.

said by Oinktastic See Profile
Most "broadband" plans are capped and throttled and the prices are being increased about twice a year now. It's absolutely ridiculous.
[/BQUOTE :

Cartel capitalism at its finest...

MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Oinktastic

Premium Member

to Oinktastic
said by Oinktastic:

They pretend to compete with each other in the areas where they overlap.....

To paraphrase the old adage of Communist countries, "They pretend to compete, and the CRTC pretends to regulate them".

Brantford
@primus.ca

Brantford

Anon

Re: Left them for good.

...and the government pretends to care...