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AT&T, Verizon T-Mo Invest $100 Million in Mobile Payment System
Imagine The New And Innovative Fee Possibilities!
by Karl Bode 09:19AM Monday Aug 29 2011
In November of last year, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Discover Financial Services and Barclays joined forces on a project dubbed Isis. Isis was intended to help use smartphones to replace your existing credit cards, using short-range, high frequency near-field communication (NFC) technology to engage in encrypted payment transfers at short distances (read: just wave to pay). However, the carriers quickly realized they would have a hard time beating Master Card and Visa at their own game, and decided to work with the major credit players. Pushing Isis further, the companies have announced that they're decided to invest another $100 million into the project in the hopes of beating companies like Google to the punch. Using your phone as a debit/credit card is expected to be a $670 billion market by 2015 -- something certainly helped by the wireless industry's abilities to impose new and creative fees.

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mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

2 edits

Wow,

we'll be able to wave good-bye to our money in so many new and interesting ways. </sarcasm>

Edit: added the </sarcasm> tag (since it apparently wasn't obvious enough)
Another edit: Oh, and BTW, pun intended.
tpkatl

join:2009-11-16
Dacula, GA

Why would I want to trust AT&T with even one cent of my money?

If you think dealing with AT&T for phone/cable issues is a horrible chore (with no recourse to the Court system, only to their hand-picked arbitrators), then imagine how awful it will be to deal with AT&T on a transactional basis when they start handling (or mishandling) your money?

Why on earth would anyone trust the cellphone monopoly trust with our hard-earned money?

You may choose to use this - I will never do so.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Why would I want to trust AT&T with even one cent of my mone

said by tpkatl:

If you think dealing with AT&T for phone/cable issues is a horrible chore (with no recourse to the Court system, only to their hand-picked arbitrators), then imagine how awful it will be to deal with AT&T on a transactional basis when they start handling (or mishandling) your money?

While I wouldn't hold out much hope, I wonder how the government (courts, legislatures, regulators, etc) will look at mandatory arbitration when it isn't just essentially contract terms that are being disputed, but real money, bank accounts, etc. Banking laws are a little different then cell phone contracts.

Why on earth would anyone trust the cellphone monopoly trust with our hard-earned money?

You may choose to use this - I will never do so.

Never is a very long time. So I won't say never. But it will probably be a pretty long time before I would even think of doing so.
cahiatt
Premium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA

Re: Why would I want to trust AT&T with even one cent of my mone

I'm still trying to figure out how this is going to be better, safer or faster than just swiping my credit card.....

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by cdru:

Never is a very long time. So I won't say never. But it will probably be a pretty long time before I would even think of doing so.

My thinking is the same. I will wait out the resolution of rulings on will it use credit card billing laws or phone company billing laws. They say they will be partnering with MC & VISA and if those laws apply I'd be a little bit interested.

But even if billing issues are resolved, I'd still wait a while to see how the hacking of cell phone issues play out before switching from plastic to cellphone.
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mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

Re: Why would I want to trust AT&T with even one cent of my mone

said by FFH:

"phone company billing laws"

The wha'?!

You mean the "We're the phone company. We don't care, we don't have to." [so we'll bill you whatever we want to] laws?

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Why would I want to trust AT&T with even one cent of my mone

said by mod_wastrel:

said by FFH:

"phone company billing laws"

The wha'?!

Phone company billing is regulated by state PUCs all over the country. Though I admit the regulation is very lax in most states.
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mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

Re: Why would I want to trust AT&T with even one cent of my mone

Yeah... "funny fees" added at will (and I mean funny-strange not funny-ha-ha [though I'm sure that the telcos are laughing... all the way to the bank]).
en103

join:2011-05-02
I personally see no good reason to allow ANY third party middle company to have access to my money. This includes:

- Auto bill pay through a company with a check/cheque
- Pay a third party/middleman for payment services unless absolutely required (eg. TicketMaster)
- Pay to cash a check/cheque

AT&T/VZW/T-Mobile want to effectively become a Ticketmaster middleman to allow payment (for a fee I'm sure - on top of paying for wireless services) through a mobile device.

Payment through plastic and/or this form is becoming 'too easy' for some, allowing for people to spend more than they should.

David
hours are m-th 1130-10p central
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:96
Reviews:
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said by tpkatl:

If you think dealing with AT&T for phone/cable issues is a horrible chore (with no recourse to the Court system, only to their hand-picked arbitrators), then imagine how awful it will be to deal with AT&T on a transactional basis when they start handling (or mishandling) your money?

Why on earth would anyone trust the cellphone monopoly trust with our hard-earned money?

You may choose to use this - I will never do so.

I dunno, if they do a better job than paypal (which wouldn't require much!) it might be worth it.
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PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX

Loophole??

I think this might be way to beat the new law that says that credit/debit companies can only charge 12cents per transaction, no matter how much the transaction is for, unlike the traditional 1%.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
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Re: Loophole??

said by PToN:

I think this might be way to beat the new law that says that credit/debit companies can only charge 12cents per transaction, no matter how much the transaction is for, unlike the traditional 1%.

That "law" (Federal Reserve Rule) didn't last long. The fee limit was raised to 21 cents, and that's for debit transactions, not credit cards, and that's the fee charged to the merchant, not the consumer.

The purpose of the pay-by-phone nonsense is not to avoid the debit regulations - it doesn't. The purpose is simply to ease money from your wallet - ABA studies already concluded phone-based and fast-pay payers are substantially more likely to buy on impulse as well as pay higher prices, than traditional credit card users and cash-only customers.

Karl's usual rhetoric falls flat - debit fee income is going to fall drastically with these new implements - and banks will end up charging account holders in other areas to make up the shortfall.

mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

Re: Loophole??

I think the purpose--which is solely a telco purpose--is to get a "piece of the action" (that the credit card companies have). (And I probably wouldn't use the term "ease" when referring to telco attempts to get money from you--something more like "rip" and "tear" are more suitable.) If I ever use NFC for charging stuff, it'll be because it's built-in to the latest cards that my card company/bank send to me.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

absolutely no thank you.

no thanks. I already have enough overhead with my regular credit card. I don't need this too.

liaa

@comcast.net

trust them lmao

sorry I don't trust using my cellphone as a credit card....

Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8

Less Cards to Carry

Love it!

eagle2012

@verizon.net

want a fee?

want a fee? there is a app for that
sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

No thanks

I can just see thieves having a field day with this. Can you see the malware tidal wave coming if this becomes a reality?

jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17

Re: No thanks

said by sandman_1:

I can just see thieves having a field day with this. Can you see the malware tidal wave coming if this becomes a reality?

That and the smartphones themselves are already a big target for thieves...just think how much damage a thief could do in just the time that (some) people wouldn't even notice their phones gone, never mind the delay in reporting the phone stolen...
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Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO

i thought they didn't have any money?!

Wait a minute, are these the same guys who say that they aren't going to lay any fiber, put up any towers or add any kind of bandwidth of any kind without passing 110% of the costs on to us?

I guess there is only money to sink into projects which will generate profits, not improve quality of service... (I know...good for the share holders, business are supposed to make profits, blah, blah, blah...)
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: i thought they didn't have any money?!

said by Fronkman:

Wait a minute, are these the same guys who say that they aren't going to lay any fiber, put up any towers or add any kind of bandwidth of any kind without passing 110% of the costs on to us?

When did these companies state that?
said by Fronkman:

I guess there is only money to sink into projects which will generate profits, not improve quality of service...

Like any good business, both of these tasks are being undertaken.
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

Mobile networks should not be in the loop

The credit card companies should tell the mobile networks to go and fuck themselves and refuse their investments.

If the phone is to use NFC (read: RFID) to communicate with te pyment terminal, then the mobile network would/should not be used for the payment.

The mobile networks wants their netork to be used so they can be part of the group that collects fees.

This should be purely between phone markers and the credit card companies. Involving the mobile networks ensures this will fail to catch on. ( an involving only USA networks ould ensure it i not a worldwide solution)
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: Mobile networks should not be in the loop

said by jfmezei:

This should be purely between phone markers and the credit card companies. Involving the mobile networks ensures this will fail to catch on.

What about the OS and app developers? Why can't all parties join forces to be a part of the solution?
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

Re: Mobile networks should not be in the loop

App developpers won't be part of this. OS and device developpers will.

The Google project, which is likely to be emulated by a Visa/mastercard implements the payment system as isolated firmware in the phone.

Apps can't touch it. When a transaction is being authorized, the phone doesn't do anything, it is that firmware which handles it and then tells the OS "accepted" or "declined" type of response.

You can't have an app developper asking for card number and password and while doing the NFC transaction, also sending an HTTP transaction to their own server to capture your info.

Gooogle's system had advertising in mind. You walk near Macy's. An ad for Macy's offering $10 discoiunt on male underwear pops up on your phone. You walk in, pickup a couple of underwear, get to the cash, and your "coupon" is automaticaly processed during the transaction.

Meanwhile, Google gets ad dollars for this because its ad caused a customer to buy something at Macys.

mobile networks see $$$ so they want to be kept in the loop.
chances14

join:2010-03-03
Michigan

major security concerns

i try to stay away from online billing as much as i can as i simply don't trust the security of online bill pay. I still pay all my credit card and utility bills through snail mail and good ol fashion checks. I will never use my phone as a credit card until they stop making those plastic credit cards.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: major security concerns

Mom, is that you?
Justin024

join:2010-08-11
Irving, TX
Yes because sending checks through the mail is so much safer.