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RIM Still Not Clear on Multi-Day Outage
They Themselves May Not Understand Cause
by Karl Bode 04:26PM Monday Nov 14 2011
Several weeks after an outage brought RIM's network to its knees, Ars Technica notes that the company still hasn't completely clarified why the outage was so severe. The outage began courtesy of a core switch and backup systems at a data center in Europe, but then cascaded across five continents as RIM's systems effectively imploded. The precise nature of those cascading problems still hasn't been fully understood, despite Bloomberg noting RIM has created a network "SWAT team" to dig into the cause and prevent it from recurring with potential system redesigns. Given RIM's inability to adequately compete with Android and iOS, they may want to hurry.

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rit56

join:2000-12-01
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Interesting

That's good for customer comfort in your product.

Guspaz
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It already hurt them

During the outage, I heard business people say that they were thinking about moving from BlackBerry to the iPhone. Because on the iPhone, there is no middleman; your phone directly connects to your company's Exchange server, and if there is a problem with the Exchange server, you can smack your IT guys until they fix it. Also all your mail would be down anyhow.

I haven't heard about people considering Android. Blackberry and iPhone both have pretty sophisticated enterprise management capabilities, but Android doesn't seem to have any first-party enterprise support at all, just third party solutions.
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Nightfall
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Re: It already hurt them

said by Guspaz:

During the outage, I heard business people say that they were thinking about moving from BlackBerry to the iPhone. Because on the iPhone, there is no middleman; your phone directly connects to your company's Exchange server, and if there is a problem with the Exchange server, you can smack your IT guys until they fix it. Also all your mail would be down anyhow.

I haven't heard about people considering Android. Blackberry and iPhone both have pretty sophisticated enterprise management capabilities, but Android doesn't seem to have any first-party enterprise support at all, just third party solutions.

Excuse me? The Iphone doesn't have any enterprise management capabilities to my knowledge. The only thing I do know is if you are running exchange and running an Iphone or Droid, you can wipe the device remotely within Outlook Web Access.

Please post a link with information on other enterprise management when it comes to the Iphone or Droid.
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yabos

join:2003-02-16
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Re: It already hurt them

Not hard to find

»www.apple.com/iphone/business/integration/

Nightfall
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Re: It already hurt them

No centralized way to push out apps.
No centralized way to manage phone settings.

Sorry, but what the Iphone has is great capabilities, but no real way to centrally manage them. Same goes for the Android. As soon as they figure it out is when RIM goes the way of the Dodo.
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DrDrew
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2 edits

Re: It already hurt them

said by Nightfall:

No centralized way to push out apps.
No centralized way to manage phone settings.

Sorry, but what the Iphone has is great capabilities, but no real way to centrally manage them. Same goes for the Android. As soon as they figure it out is when RIM goes the way of the Dodo.

Try this link:
»www.apple.com/iphone/business/in···ion/mdm/

Companies can make there own App store:
»developer.apple.com/programs/ios/enterprise/

Then there's the Dell KACE plugin:
»www.kace.com/about/releases/12_15_08.php
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Nightfall
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Re: It already hurt them

said by DrDrew:

said by Nightfall:

No centralized way to push out apps.
No centralized way to manage phone settings.

Sorry, but what the Iphone has is great capabilities, but no real way to centrally manage them. Same goes for the Android. As soon as they figure it out is when RIM goes the way of the Dodo.

Try this link:
»www.apple.com/iphone/business/in···ion/mdm/

Companies can make there own App store:
»developer.apple.com/programs/ios/enterprise/

Then there's the Dell KACE plugin:
»www.kace.com/about/releases/12_15_08.php

I will dive into this a little bit. We are going to be making a big push to Iphones next year I think.
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MRCURAnon

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Re: It already hurt them

"Sorry, but what the Iphone has is great capabilities, but no real way to centrally manage them."

You should really be careful before you make statements that come across as "Excuse me, how dare you try to say something that goes against my current knowledge" when you don't really know.

Nightfall
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Re: It already hurt them

said by MRCURAnon :

"Sorry, but what the Iphone has is great capabilities, but no real way to centrally manage them."

You should really be careful before you make statements that come across as "Excuse me, how dare you try to say something that goes against my current knowledge" when you don't really know.

If I meant that, I would have said it. Nice try though.
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Guspaz
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Re: It already hurt them

Well, you did make a bunch of matter-of-fact posts saying the iPhone didn't have enterprise management, or a centralized way to push out apps, or a centralized way to manage phones, and in reality you can do all of those things...

Basically your business maintains an MDM (Mobile Device Management) server, which communicate's with Apple's push notification service, which pushes the configurations down to the handsets. This PDF has more information:

»images.apple.com/iphone/business···_MDM.pdf

In addition to the basic remote wipe and lock, you can also push configuration profiles which can restrict or remove certain functionality (say you don't want people using the camera or the web browser or something, or you want to prevent the user from installing apps), you can install apps, remove apps, list installed apps (maybe make sure the user is abiding by soft policies), etc.

I don't know anything about RIM's enterprise management solution, but I don't really see anything missing here that RIM might do that Apple's solution doesn't.
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Re: It already hurt them

said by Guspaz:

Well, you did make a bunch of matter-of-fact posts saying the iPhone didn't have enterprise management, or a centralized way to push out apps, or a centralized way to manage phones, and in reality you can do all of those things...

Basically your business maintains an MDM (Mobile Device Management) server, which communicate's with Apple's push notification service, which pushes the configurations down to the handsets. This PDF has more information:

»images.apple.com/iphone/business···_MDM.pdf

In addition to the basic remote wipe and lock, you can also push configuration profiles which can restrict or remove certain functionality (say you don't want people using the camera or the web browser or something, or you want to prevent the user from installing apps), you can install apps, remove apps, list installed apps (maybe make sure the user is abiding by soft policies), etc.

I don't know anything about RIM's enterprise management solution, but I don't really see anything missing here that RIM might do that Apple's solution doesn't.

Obviously people here had the wrong impression then. I was saying the whole time, "To my knowledge...." and I was constantly asking for more info. I have since gotten the information that I need. Thanks for this information. I will have to look into this as a viable option. Nothing really for the android side I am assuming?
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Guspaz
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Re: It already hurt them

For android there are third party tools. Some of those tools also work with iPhones, allowing simpler management if you have to handle multiple types of devices. But beyond that I don't know anything about it. I don't really know anything about Apple's management solutions either, only that they exist and what they do.
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Re: It already hurt them

said by Guspaz:

For android there are third party tools. Some of those tools also work with iPhones, allowing simpler management if you have to handle multiple types of devices. But beyond that I don't know anything about it. I don't really know anything about Apple's management solutions either, only that they exist and what they do.

Certainly would be nice to find some first hand reviews. There are a couple out there when I do a google search, but they are not very detailed.
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trparky
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Look at »www.good.com/android/

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Re: It already hurt them

said by trparky:

Look at »www.good.com/android/

Know anyone who uses this?
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jorr
CCNA

join:2001-05-02
Heath, OH

Re: It already hurt them

Used it (Good) was not all that happy... However, that was with Lotus Notes... Overall I was not impressed with Good & iPhone.

Currently use Mobile Iron for Android AND iPhone (ipad, etc).Mobile Iron works great in our international environment supporting M$ Exchange...

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Re: It already hurt them

said by jorr:

Used it (Good) was not all that happy... However, that was with Lotus Notes... Overall I was not impressed with Good & iPhone.

Currently use Mobile Iron for Android AND iPhone (ipad, etc).Mobile Iron works great in our international environment supporting M$ Exchange...

The point is that so far, RIM has had a foothold in the mobile business realm for a long time. Their devices work well when it comes to email. Their BES is a great management tool. So far, the Iphone and Android devices don't have this level of ease when it comes to management.
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espaeth
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said by Nightfall:

said by trparky:

Look at »www.good.com/android/

Know anyone who uses this?

We use this exclusively, and have just finished phasing out Blackberry support.

On Android and iPhone it creates its own encrypted storage container for local device caching, and you get central controls for content destruction, password resets, etc.

pnjunction
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You know as a user and tweaker of my personal Android phone I say: good (that the admins lack 'management' of my device).

Let me put in the activesync server and access my mail and calendar, that's all I need. Otherwise keep your control-freak paws out of my device.

I think they can wipe it though as someone said, it asked for that permission when I set up the account. That's fine I assume they won't do that unless I tell them I lost it (it's also backed up anyway).
jst3751
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Re: It already hurt them

The key word in your post is personal. That is fine and dandy. But if it is a company owned and provided device, the company has every right and should be able to do as it pleases with that device, including tracking it and monitoring what is going on on it.
niveous

join:2008-08-16
Toronto, ON
Active Sync works fine with Android and iPhone, although I could never use iToy myself. Company I work for has almost eliminated almost all of our Blackberrys globally. Enterprise BES has been replaced with express which will be shutdown by the end of the year.

Myself I tried to hold on to RIM products but after owning the POS Torch, I have jumped ship myself. Had been using their products since the days of their messaging pager.
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Re: It already hurt them

AS puts 7-12 times the load on a server as a BES or BESX connection does. Also the BES and even BIS compresses the datastream to conserve bandwidth. TBH though its MUCH slower in general to be on BES since your go phone => provider => backhaul to RIM => ISP backhaul => Exchange datacenter

Guspaz
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Re: It already hurt them

Well, of course ActiveSync is going to be more intensive, it has to communicate with every individual device, while BES is just going to communicate server-to-server no matter how many devices are involved...

The point isn't the resource usage, the point is the lack of control. Companies don't like it when one of their crucial internal services are down and they can't do anything about it. At least if your Exchange server is down you can get internal people to fix it. When RIM's services go down, you're screwed.
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Kearnstd
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Re: It already hurt them

said by Guspaz:

Well, of course ActiveSync is going to be more intensive, it has to communicate with every individual device, while BES is just going to communicate server-to-server no matter how many devices are involved...

The point isn't the resource usage, the point is the lack of control. Companies don't like it when one of their crucial internal services are down and they can't do anything about it. At least if your Exchange server is down you can get internal people to fix it. When RIM's services go down, you're screwed.

And this is the big problem for RIM, the other two competing smart phones are gaining more and more processes/apps to allow BB class control over the device for an employer but without the middle man of the RIM network on top of the possible issues of the actual data/voice carrier network.

id imagine once the Droid/iOS stuff fully matures that RIM will go tits up because I know if I could get the same class of management from a setup where my only point of third party failure was VZN or AT&T or Sprint I would feel a lot better knowing my network team is managing the data servers in our data centers.
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niveous

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DSLR fail. Dupe.
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1 edit
Maybe BES does have superior management features, but that is like saying a Ferrari is Superior to a Chevy Corvette but the Ferrari may or may not start some weeks and the mechanic wont know why it was not starting.
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Re: It already hurt them

said by Kearnstd:

Maybe BES does have superior management features, but that is like saying a Ferrari is Superior to a Chevy Corvette but the Ferrari may or may not start some weeks and the mechanic wont know why it was not starting.

Thats the rub right there.
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chgo_man99

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they're sleeping

enough said...