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Press Notices Other ISPs Impose 'Pay Your Bill Fees'
Verizon Certainly Not Alone in Obnoxious Cash Grab

The other day Verizon was hammered for their decision to charge users an extra $2 if they wanted to pay their wireless bill either online or over the phone. While Verizon backed off the plan, we noted at the time that the press seemed to not notice that their plan isn't that unusual, with many, many ISPs charging extra fees to pay bills online, over the phone, or in person. Even Verizon charges such fees for some landline and DSL customers.

The Boston Globe is one of the few mainstream sites to notice this, pointing out that if users are going to be outraged at Verizon, they should also be outraged at AT&T, RCN, Comcast, DirecTV and plenty of other companies who -- as we noted some time ago -- have created a trend of forcing customers to pay a fee -- just to pay their bills. They break out the long list of ISPs doing similar fees highlighting RCN, who charges up to $7 in some instances but didn't want to talk about it:
quote:
AT&T Wireless charges $5 to make a payment in person with a clerk or via phone with a live agent. And T-Mobile USA: $5 by phone with an agent. Many cable TV providers levy similar fees. Comcast Corp., the region’s largest cable television provider, charges $5.99 to make a payment via phone with the aid of a representative. And the two largest satellite TV providers, DirecTV and Dish Network, both charge $5 to make a payment through a representative. RCN, which charges as much as $7 for some types of payments, could not be reached for comment.
It's all part of a long-standing practice in the ISP industry (and now most other industries) to break out costs of business and place them below the line, allowing them to advertise a lower price -- then sock you with a variety of annoying fees. In this case Verizon didn't get away with it because users collectively complained, though you wonder why these folks weren't paying attention when other carriers implement such fees.
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Thank dishonest advertising practices...

You can thank dishonest advertising practices for this. This is nothing more than a rate hike that does not affect the advertised price. Things to get more expensive as time goes along so prices do go up. Instead of increasing the advertised price they just stick the increase elsewhere.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

said by battleop:

You can thank dishonest advertising practices for this. This is nothing more than a rate hike that does not affect the advertised price. Things to get more expensive as time goes along so prices do go up. Instead of increasing the advertised price they just stick the increase elsewhere.

But it isn't a rate hike for MOST users. It is a rate hike only for those clueless people who want to pay bills like they did in the 1950's. I actually prefer the regular advertised rate not go up for everyone just so that some people mired in the past get a break from fees.
sandman_1
join:2011-04-23
11111

sandman_1

Member

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

They used Internet back in the 1950's? Because I have seen this fee being charged for online transactions too.

I think the point here, is that why should the customer have to pay a fee just to pay a bill. You can't assume that everyone in the world should have your level of knowledge. There are a lot of people that didn't grow up during the PC computer age and are not really proficient at computers. Not a fault, it is just different for them when it comes to a PC.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

said by sandman_1:

I think the point here, is that why should the customer have to pay a fee just to pay a bill. You can't assume that everyone in the world should have your level of knowledge. There are a lot of people that didn't grow up during the PC computer age and are not really proficient at computers. Not a fault, it is just different for them when it comes to a PC.

They can pay the bill by mail and pay no fee. Paying in person or by phone is not required and companies discourage that option because it costs them more money because of extra employees being needed.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

And you don't need people to enter all those cheques received by mail into an AR system? Costs them more than doing it even by phone. Cheques received cost to be deposited to their bank account, just like credit payments. These arguments don't wash.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

said by sbrook:

And you don't need people to enter all those cheques received by mail into an AR system? Costs them more than doing it even by phone.

Please. A half way decent data entry clerk is going to make about the same as a phone CSR, and is going to be able to enter far more payments hourly then the CSR. The cost-per-payment is far less for a mailed in payment then a phone.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

said by cdru:

said by sbrook:

And you don't need people to enter all those cheques received by mail into an AR system? Costs them more than doing it even by phone.

Please. A half way decent data entry clerk is going to make about the same as a phone CSR, and is going to be able to enter far more payments hourly then the CSR. The cost-per-payment is far less for a mailed in payment then a phone.

Not only that, but most mailed in checks to pay bills are handled by outsourced 3rd party companies that do it all with machines - from opening the envelopes, scanning the bills & the checks, transmitting info to banks, etc. The cost per bill is pennies thru the outsourcer, versus dollars to handle a bill paid over the phone or in person.

A friend of mine is a director of operations at one of the companies that does this in the Philadelphia area.
Expand your moderator at work

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to sbrook

Premium Member

to sbrook
but a data entry clerk can process 180-2xx+ checks per hour, a phone billing clerk can only POLITELY deal with 10-12 in some cases much less (people argue/chat with humans, not with checks, or online payment forums)

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Corehhi to sbrook

Member

to sbrook
said by sbrook:

And you don't need people to enter all those cheques received by mail into an AR system? Costs them more than doing it even by phone. Cheques received cost to be deposited to their bank account, just like credit payments. These arguments don't wash.

At one point B of A wanted to charge for using the ATM when the whole reason for the ATM was it's a much cheaper than having tellers. They also tried limiting your times you could use a teller, that failed too. It's like charging for a debit card, that was the last banking idea that massively failed.

They will try and people will vote with their feet or threaten too. It all works out in the end. Oh I forgot, bill pay use to be a feature you had to pay for and that also saves banks money.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
That's understandable, but the attempt to charge extra to pay your bill BY mail OR online, which SAVES them money is beyond reprehensible.

vzw emp
@144.191.148.x

vzw emp to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by battleop:

You can thank dishonest advertising practices for this. This is nothing more than a rate hike that does not affect the advertised price. Things to get more expensive as time goes along so prices do go up. Instead of increasing the advertised price they just stick the increase elsewhere.

But it isn't a rate hike for MOST users. It is a rate hike only for those clueless people who want to pay bills like they did in the 1950's. I actually prefer the regular advertised rate not go up for everyone just so that some people mired in the past get a break from fees.

I've got to call BS on you for this crap statement.

The whole point of paying a bill online is to reduce costs. Back in the 1950's you would mail a check. Well, the process of maintaining a facility (or multiple facilities depending on the size of your business) and hiring employees to process all that mail was expensive. To solve this companies turned to electronic payments (credit/debit card, ACH) which are far cheaper than sending a paper bill and processing a paper check. Now they turn around and say they are charging two bucks to improve the "customer experience"? Why don't they just be honest and call it what it is: a below the line rate hike which won't show up in the advertising and they won't tell you about until after you've signed on the dotted line?

I use Verizon Wireless and manually pay my bill via their website every month and would have been one of the people who were subject to this "fee". Explain why I'm "clueless". Is it because I don't want to grant access to my finances to a corporation who has shown it has no interest in anything but squeezing an even bigger profit from it's customers than it is already receiving? Is it because I don't want them to debit my checking account for an amount that has twice in the past year been incorrect? Is it because I refuse to surrender the only leverage I have when dealing with Verizon or any other corporation (the ability to deny payment until a problem is resolved)?

If anything, "clueless" seems a more appropriate descriptor for someone who allows a company to take money from his account at it's leisure because he mistakenly believes that a corporation never makes a mistake and has only his best interests at heart.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

I pay thru my bank's bill paying system. No fee from Verizon. No fee from the banks. No Auto-pay; I pay when I am ready.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

Re: Thank dishonest advertising practices...

said by FFH5:

I pay thru my bank's bill paying system. No fee from Verizon. No fee from the banks. No Auto-pay; I pay when I am ready.

Until they decide to start charging you a fee to do this.

This is the point of shutting this down now.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20 to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

I pay thru my bank's bill paying system. No fee from Verizon. No fee from the banks. No Auto-pay; I pay when I am ready.

That costs quite a bit of money in Hawaii (unless you are rich and have big accounts at the bank or use a credit union instead). I don't want my checking account at a credit union and I am not about to pay a monthly fee for my bank's bill pay. I also am not about to leave my bank which has been honored by Forbes for two years in row now as the Best Bank in America. I want my money in a safe place. I wouldn't put it in any other bank in this state. So, your option is not available to me.

I've used bill pay, as a free trial, and I think it is one of the most inane, stupid, time consuming ways to pay bills. Plus, there is NO guarantee if the check doesn't reach the payee in time. Everything then is MY fault...not the bank's because I should have scheduled the check to be mailed at least one month in advance and if the USPS loses it for longer than that...it is still my fault because I should not have used bill pay in the first place so I am subject to all penalties which can be very harsh. So, fine if where YOU live bill pay works well, and is free from STRONG banks, but that is not case in Hawaii.
8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

8744675 to battleop

Member

to battleop
Well, starting this month, airlines are required to include all the taxes and other below-the-line fees in the price they quote for the flight.

Hopefully, this will end up being the case for broadband and mobile carriers.
rdmiller
join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA

1 recommendation

rdmiller

Member

Why?

Why do you need "the aid of a representative" to pay your bills. What am I missing here?
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Why?

There's still a constituency that likes to speak with a warm body when conducting business.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

$5...

Don't forget that Verizon WILL Hit you for $5 if you are a DAY late with paper invoice.

wasnotwas
@verizon.net

wasnotwas

Anon

Re: $5...

verizon = Sir Charge

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· zBloyvAk

&

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· H829JwCc

&

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· XaUH6NNo
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13

Member

Re: $5...

I just found my new favorite advertising campaign!

wings10
I Am Legend
Premium Member
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

wings10

Premium Member

Bull Shit!!

I only use auto pay services when they are free,

My Mortgage, Auto Insurance, DISH.

If others want to charge me a fee to get their money on time I say this is Bull Shit! And I will just send it by mail.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13

Member

Re: Bull Shit!!

I think the autopay is free, but manual payments (besides pay by mail) are charged extra.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

Re: Bull Shit!!

said by talz13:

I think the autopay is free, but manual payments (besides pay by mail) are charged extra.

one of my mothers credit card companies charges a $5 fee to pay the bill via their website, weather you use debit or ACH.. i pay that bill for her through her banks bill pay for no fee.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

Re: Bull Shit!!

said by thedragonmas:

said by talz13:

I think the autopay is free, but manual payments (besides pay by mail) are charged extra.

one of my mothers credit card companies charges a $5 fee to pay the bill via their website, weather you use debit or ACH.. i pay that bill for her through her banks bill pay for no fee.

She could also pay it by phone FREE using electronic debit from her checking account. By law all banks/financial institutions must accept phone payment over toll free numbers and not charge for it unless, perhaps, the customer needs to speak to a CSR for some reason other than the automated system messing up (like in the two examples below). It is much easier to pay by phone. I pay almost all my credit cards now by phone since it is fast, free, and with a corded landline phone (with a speaker in the phone's base) it is safer than via the internet. Even the first time you do it is EXTREMELY SIMPLE and easy to do usually.

I did have a problem two months in a row with one bank's automated system not understanding when I was asked how much I wanted to pay and I said "$150". It said "you want to pay $115 is this correct"? I said no and repeated the correct amount. It still thought I said $115 not $150. It took 4-5 tries before finally understanding me. The same thing happened the next month. I then called and complained and the bank actually fixed the system and now it understands even if I deliberately mumble slightly (to test it).

I had another bank's automated payment system rattle off the confirmation number (which was extremely long) so fast that I had to have it repeated many times in order to write it down correctly. (This is where the speaker phone comes in very handy as my hands are free for writing the long number down). After the second time that happened, I called that bank about it also. They fixed it quickly and the next time the confirmation number was given more slowly. A few months after that, the bank moved to a much shorter confirmation number.

thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here

1 recommendation

thegeek

Premium Member

This is why I didn't get all the uproar.

What Verizon tried to do was nothing new. Not only have other ISPs been doing it for years, but utilities and other organizations have also been doing it. And I actually stand behind the practice. So long as they don't try to charge for autopay options. For some reason my water company wants $5 to set up autopay. That is the only check I write. I don't even write a check for my mortgage anymore.

sammysnake
Never Forget 911
Premium Member
join:2002-01-19
Salt Lake City, UT

sammysnake

Premium Member

Re: This is why I didn't get all the uproar.

Questar Gas here in the inter mountain west is the check I write. They want to charge a "convenience fee" to get instant payment via online payment. So they wait until I mail them a check.

Madness
Like a flea circus at a dog show
join:2000-01-05
Lynn, MA

Madness

Member

Catch-22?

Does VZ charge if you still opt for a paper bill?
QLR
join:2009-06-23
Tallahassee, FL

QLR

Member

Re: Catch-22?

A $2 per line fee is charged if you want a detailed bill via mail. Summarized bills are still mailed at no charge.
mist668
join:2011-02-15
Middleburg, PA

mist668

Member

Its acceptable

We charge the fees for in person payment because there are many other methods that can be used to pay your balance "fee free". The only reason this charge is inacted is because when there is a store full of people we want to get to each and every person as quick as possible and not have to deal with bill payments while there are customers waiting for troubleshooting/adds ect.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Its acceptable

No you dont. You charge a fee because you can and because you want more money. It has absolutely nothing to do with customer service, because if it did you would actually invest in providing customers service.

•••

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas to mist668

Premium Member

to mist668
2 windows, 1 for bills, 1 for every thing else. before mediacom moved there service center the old one had 3 windows. 1 bill, 2 equipment return/exchange, 3 support.

so to say you "need" to charge a fee just to speed people up is false, invest in customer service instead of some corporate fat cats golden parachut and you could hire an extra person just for bills, like maybe a disabled person on ssi so they can get off of ssi and you can have a warm fuzzy feeling ?

••••

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to mist668

Premium Member

to mist668
said by mist668:

We charge the fees for in person payment because there are many other methods that can be used to pay your balance "fee free". The only reason this charge is inacted is because when there is a store full of people we want to get to each and every person as quick as possible and not have to deal with bill payments while there are customers waiting for troubleshooting/adds ect.

You obviously don't work for cox where theres 5 agent stations and enough help to man them yet you WAIT WAIT WAIT because you have 1 person helping people and the others just standing around talking to each other bullshitting.
JohnA4
Premium Member
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA

JohnA4

Premium Member

Do it through your bank


Anyone that tries for a bill pay fee gets paid through my bank's bill paying system. All of my utilities are done that way, as they are notorious for online bill pay fees. I still control it, and when it's paid, with no fee involved.
QLR
join:2009-06-23
Tallahassee, FL

QLR

Member

Re: Do it through your bank

My city has outsourced their online bill payment systems to Western Union... So I use my online bill pay thru my credit union... Or I visit the local office and pay in person since that is free as well.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

Re: Do it through your bank

said by QLR:

My city has outsourced their online bill payment systems to Western Union... So I use my online bill pay thru my credit union... Or I visit the local office and pay in person since that is free as well.

so has ours, but theres no fee. and it beats going down there. you think the cable company is busy? that joint has 5 windows with 5 lines every month, takes a good half hour just to pay the bill.

billdacat6
Premium Member
join:2009-05-26
Sicklerville, NJ

billdacat6

Premium Member

Big deal133;it only a few bucks.

FWIW…The wonderful state of New Jersey (yeah it sucks) charges a $2.00 convenience fee to renew a vehicle registration online. I would bet human hands never touch or intervene in this process.

There is nothing more efficient then going to the DMV in person and having a clerk manually process your renewal application. Oh, I almost forgot, you get to write a wonderful check…yippy..

Come to think of it, the convenience fee is probably used to pay the DMV clerk’s salary..Never mind.

••••

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David

Premium Member

the state of IL DMV

Charges $2.75 just to pay your plate renewal online. If I pay my water bill with a automated payment online it costs me $1.25 per transaction.

I can see the fees for paying in person with a rep, I don't agree with verizon's idea of paying just to pay online.

I think that is what the the bigger difference was in the whole matter.

CHPMustang
N X T1
Premium Member
join:2001-10-18
Plano, TX

CHPMustang

Premium Member

Re: the state of IL DMV

We get charged like $5 for the convenience fee,I just walk into the office and save 5 bucks

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David

Premium Member

Re: the state of IL DMV

Yea, it comes in an envelope I could print out some pages and mail when the time comes and that would be incredibly cheaper. However, with the online bit, it makes it ultra convenient for me.

xirian
Premium Member
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY

xirian

Premium Member

None of the examples are similar

All of those examples are fees to pay with a rep, meaning taking up a live person. The verizon charge applied to pretty much anything but sending a check, going to the store to use the kiosk, or using autopay. I have no problem if they charge someone $5 to take up the time of an employee when they can do it themselves online, in store, or using an automated phone system, but they were doing it mainly to annoy people into giving them autopay authorization.

•••
equivocal
join:2008-01-23
USA

equivocal

Member

Surprised Verizon backed down

I'm really surprised that Verizon backed down. Being hated by their customers doesn't mean anything to a company like Verizon--it's built into the business model. They will keep at this until they finally get it to stick.

I'm in the camp that believes that the $2 is a red herring and the real motivation is to herd stragglers to auto pay. They will (and intend) to make many times that $2 by a continuous stream of billing "errors" which get paid automatically by customers who won't notice or decide it's not worth fighting to get back the small amount of the "error".
vp71inet
join:2005-05-12
Englishtown, NJ

vp71inet

Member

Re: Surprised Verizon backed down

I am with you on this one. By the time any regulating agency raps them on the knuckles for their "billing foibles" they have already laughed all the way to the bank. Any refunds to ripped off customers will be peanuts compared to the benefits that they have already gained.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

I pay my bills online

I pay my bills online via the company's website. I use autopay for my car insurance and my Sirius Radio and OnStar. For my Comcast, Verizon Wireless, and Western Mass Electric bills, I pay online via the company's website. For the rent, I pay it with a good old fashioned personal check.