LightSquared Gets Politicians to Beg for Spectrum Swap Lawmakers Want FCC to Review DOD Holdings LightSquared filed for bankruptcy last month after their planned LTE network was shown to interfere with GPS services, resulting in them being unable to get a necessary spectrum condition waiver from the FCC. Despite no product, unstable leadership, and not a whole lot of hope -- the company managed to get a slew of politicians this week to beg the FCC to help keep LightSquared alive. In a letter sent to the FCC, five members of the U.S. House Appropriations Committee have asked the FCC to review all available spectrum controlled by the Department of Defense and try to keep LightSquared alive by initiating a spectrum swap. "In the absence of a viable technical solution that would allow LightSquared to use its own licensed spectrum, we believe a spectrum swap is the most resourceful and efficient way to quickly expand broadband access nationwide," wrote Reps. Jim Moran (D-VA), Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), Rodney Alexander (R-LA.), Steve Rothman (D-NJ)and Ander Crenshaw (R-FL). "We believe identifying and freeing up available DoD spectrum promotes the efficient use of a valuable resource and reaffirms the FCC’s commitment to move the U.S. closer to providing wireless broadband for all Americans," stated the lawmakers. The Department of Defense is notoriously sluggish in moving off of freed spectrum assets, even those they haven't used for some time. This effort is essentially a last gasp effort by the company, and the swap of LightSquared's GPS interfering spectrum with more prime government wireless real estate seems rather unlikely, no matter how many campaign contributions LightSquared backer Phillip Falcone makes.
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  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 |  We now know which pols are for sale to Lightsquared
quote:
Reps. Jim Moran (D-VA), Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), Rodney Alexander (R-LA.), Steve Rothman (D-NJ)and Ander Crenshaw (R-FL).
The puppets are dancing at Falcone's request. | |
|  | | | Re: We now know which pols are for sale to Lightsquared Politicians aren't for sale; they're for rent. "Sale" implies that you own one forever, which you don't. They simply rent their services until a higher bidder comes along. | |
| | | | Politicians should be required to wear corporate sponsor logos, like NASCAR drivers. | |
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| | A better solution I have a better solution. If LS wants to build a network, they need to get out there, find the money, and buy the spectrum they need. Perhaps they can sell the holdings they have now to partially defray the cost.
LS gambled on getting spectrum on the cheap, and they lost. Time for them to suck it up, lick their wounds, and do it the right way this time. | |
| | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: A better solution LightSquared is attempting to do it the "right way" this round by getting its Congress Critters to weigh in on reallocating spectrum. I'm honestly surprised this tactic wasn't worked from the beginning. | |
| | | cramer
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:7 | Re: A better solution This isn't working because the spectrum they bought dirt cheap isn't worth anything. Nobody wanted it in the first place -- that's why it was cheap. Now, they cannot MAKE someone take it. | |
| | | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: A better solution LightSquared doesn't need anyone to "take" the spectrum allocation. I imagine the allocation will be sold off for pennies during bankruptcy proceedings or else returned to the FCC for re-purposing.
My response was aimed at LightSquared leveraging Congressional representation to encourage decision makers to reallocate useful spectrum to LightSquared. | |
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| | how How exactly did they buy the original troublesome spectrum? Did the fcc sell it to them as usable ? If so, then yes, they do need to help them try to do a swap.. This idea might actually help nudge the big duo's in many areas to wakeup and build out.... /shrug | |
| | | | Re: how The spectrum was not meant to be used for terrestrial use, it was designated for satellite communications. The FCC gave them a waver saying that they could try to make it work but if it caused interference they had to abandon it. | |
| | |  DataDocMy avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC
 ·Suddenlink
| Re: how said by flashcore:"but if it caused interference they had to abandon it."
Universally true, isn't it?
--
"Don't shoot, I am Che Guevara and I am worth more to you alive than dead." - his last words. | |
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|  XiodenPremium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1 | said by howexact :How exactly did they buy the original troublesome spectrum? Did the fcc sell it to them as usable ? If so, then yes, they do need to help them try to do a swap.. This idea might actually help nudge the big duo's in many areas to wakeup and build out.... /shrug
They acquired spectrum through acquisition of a company that did mobile satellite communication. Said spectrum wasn't meant to be used for terrestrial service, but rather ground-to-satellite. They were attempting to get a waiver to use it for ground-to-ground use, which they couldn't get due to interference it caused. They gambled and lost. | |
| | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | said by howexact :How exactly did they buy the original troublesome spectrum? I believe the spectrum came with SkyTerra during an acquisition by LightSquared.said by howexact :This idea might actually help nudge the big duo's in many areas to wakeup and build out. The "big duo" are already deploying infrastructure to the tune of billions of dollars. The "promise" of LightSquared offering a wholesale network is a belief that consumer prices would come down for mobile data. | |
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1 edit | Although they tried and gambled, they also paid for the spectrum.
There are jobs and competition needed. If there are some open band can be used, they should have chance to pay for the worth of that airwave. | |
| | |  ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA | Re: how said by Cooljosh:Although they tried and gambled, they also paid for the spectrum.
There are jobs and competition needed. FCC might want to think about it.
Then they can sell the spectrum and use the money for something else more useful. Why should the FCC force the DoD to swap because some company wanted to use something for which it wasn't intended for. | |
| | | |
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Bad means for a good end? It would be a good thing for unused spectrum to start being used. It would increase wireless competition, and not really cost anything.
However, the success or failure of Lightsquared shouldn't factor in to any DoD decision. Maybe they can use some more spectrum for their satellites, though it takes them decades to actually get a satellite up. They probably have some 15-year plan for all of their other spectrum, involving pagers or some other obsolete technology.
It would probably cost them 100 million dollars and 5 years to even decide on what spectrum to swap. Sorry, Lightsquared! | |
| |  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
| Re: Bad means for a good end? Or they can hold on to it.
GPS is supposed to be off the l1/l2 freqs by 2020 (probably delayed 'til 2023-26 due to budget and technical problems) So LightSquared COULD petition to try again then.
OR the can use the spectrum for Sat. as intended.
OR the can sell it to someone else, for Sat use.
OR they could return it to the Gov't for resale (  like Falcone will let that happen) | |
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Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | When the VP of 4G has nothing better to do... Take a look at the comment a LightSquared employee left on my blog this morning:
»www.markuhde.com/2012/06/lightsq···-me.html
Sorry to link to my blog, I'll delete it if you want. I have no interest in promoting myself. I just want everyone to see this in context what they're doing... Don't click on any of my Amazon links while you're there or anything. This guy is supposed to be developing their seemingly non-existant technology, not running around Google alerts and posting stuff like that to people's blogs... | |
| | | |  r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX | lol. Someone needs to tell moogly to go back to india and mess up gps there instead.
He should also look into taking some physics classes.
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...brought to you by Carl's Jr. | |
| | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Indeed. Also, look at the guy I debated in my comments with yesterday - Jesse - I wonder if Jesse Bergson is simply a FOX News viewer who bought the whole charade hook, line, and sinker, or if he works for LightSquared LOL. | |
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| | It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea Fix the damned GPS system and this won't be an issue. All those receivers receiving out of spectrum signals are screwing this up, instead of ignoring the data they still process it. Can't believe how screwed up this is. FIX THE GPS! | |
| | Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea said by NOCTech75:Fix the damned GPS system and this won't be an issue. All those receivers receiving out of spectrum signals are screwing this up, instead of ignoring the data they still process it. Can't believe how screwed up this is. FIX THE GPS!
I agree, the GPS makers have been outside of their spectrum for far too long, and no one seems to remember, that if it werent for their shitty, lazy manufacturing standards, this would have never been a problem. The problem, is that too many companies had weight with GPS systems that were receiving out of band signals, and it was going to cost them far more to upgrade or fix the stuff they have than it was going to cost to simply kill of lightsquared. | |
| | | | | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea said by Chubbysumo:I agree, the GPS makers have been outside of their spectrum for far too long, ...
No, they have not. | |
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|  a333A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Cingular Wireless
| Do you have ANY clue of how RF filters work? It is damn near impossible (or at least, VERY difficult / expensive) to build filters that can isolate two signals that are VERY close to one another in frequency (not to mention the doppler shift that occurs due to the orbital velocity of the GPS satellites themselves), with one signal being several orders of magnitude more powerful than another. You are comparing a GPS signal from a satellite thousands of miles out in space (which is transmitting maybe a 20W beam out over HUNDREDS of square miles of the Earth's surface.. and has to penetrate clouds & atmospheric fading effects in general), to a signal from a transmitter on the SURFACE that might be covering 10 or 20 square miles, and does not have to penetrate thousands of feet worth of clouds and moisture. The thought of those two coexisting is ABSURD to say the least, and reflects a general lack of understanding of the laws of physics (by the FCC, politicians, et. al). I'm all for the potential for letting LS use other frequencies, but blaming GPS is something that has already been covered both here and among technical experts in the field...
--
Physics: Will you break the laws of physics, or will the laws of physics break you?
If physicists stand on each other's shoulders, computer scientists stand on each other's toes, and computer programmers dig each other's graves. | |
| | | Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea Do you have any idea how far out of their band that the GPS receivers are working? I suggest you go and look it up. Lightsquared was going to put a 5mhz buffer on the top and bottom to prevent interference(as all carriers do, meaning there is a 10mhz buffer between carriers that have adjacent spectrum), and that standard 5mhz was not enough. GPS receivers have been far outside their allotted band for a long time, sometimes by as much as 20mhz or more, and the GPS industry and the FCC continues to do nothing about it. Hell, even the FCCs testing proved that the GPS receivers were far out of their band. This is not Lightsquared's fault, or problem to deal with. This would not have ever been a problem if the FCC would have slapped the GPS industry with the regulation they should have in the mid and late 90s when they started going outside their spectrum holdings. | |
| | | | a333A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cingular Wireless
| Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea Once again, that is not enough of a buffer due to the nature of GPS. As you mentioned, GPS receivers have for some time been operating "out of band". I.e. they have made the REASONABLE assumption that any other users of adjacent frequencies will be using those frequencies for their INTENDED purpose of satellite-terrestrial communications. This effectively eliminates the issue of interference, since the other signals will also be shifted by similar (~ 6 KHz ) amounts, and will be about as weak as GPS signals by the time they get to the surface of the Earth. The reason this assumption had to be made (and remain valid) has to do with the way low-noise amplifiers in GPS receivers are designed... designing an LNA with that much dynamic range would lead to excessive signal loss, deteriorating GPS performance and accuracy to levels beyond the requirement for military and civilian navigation. The issue at hand is that LS bought spectrum that had originally been purposed for space-ground comms, and tried to take a shortcut by attempting to re-purpose it. They lost. The waiver granted by the FCC was CONDITIONAL, and unfortunately, LS's solutions were not practical enough to fulfill the terms of the waiver.
--
Physics: Will you break the laws of physics, or will the laws of physics break you?
If physicists stand on each other's shoulders, computer scientists stand on each other's toes, and computer programmers dig each other's graves. | |
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| | | | | said by NOCTech75:Fix the damned GPS system and this won't be an issue. All those receivers receiving out of spectrum signals are screwing this up, instead of ignoring the data they still process it. Can't believe how screwed up this is. FIX THE GPS!
There's nothing wrong with GPS. | |
| | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea said by jseymour:said by NOCTech75:Fix the damned GPS system and this won't be an issue. All those receivers receiving out of spectrum signals are screwing this up, instead of ignoring the data they still process it. Can't believe how screwed up this is. FIX THE GPS!
There's nothing wrong with GPS. Yes their is, it's causing all these problems. | |
| | | | | | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea said by NOCTech75:said by jseymour:said by NOCTech75:Fix the damned GPS system and this won't be an issue. All those receivers receiving out of spectrum signals are screwing this up, instead of ignoring the data they still process it. Can't believe how screwed up this is. FIX THE GPS!
There's nothing wrong with GPS. Yes their is, it's causing all these problems. No, it is not.
This has been explained over and over and over and over and over again, here on DSLR and elsewhere. I am NOT going to repeat again what anybody who would do the most basic of Internet research could easily find out for themselves. The "it's GPS' fault" is straight out of LightSquared's mouth. It's patent nonsense. Anybody who repeats it is either a LS shill, utterly clueless, or both. | |
| | | | | | | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea Is too. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·Charter
| said by jseymour:No, it is not.
This has been explained over and over and over and over and over again, here on DSLR and elsewhere. I am NOT going to repeat again what anybody who would do the most basic of Internet research could easily find out for themselves. The "it's GPS' fault" is straight out of LightSquared's mouth. It's patent nonsense. Anybody who repeats it is either a LS shill, utterly clueless, or both.
See above this one comment. GPS receivers have been equipped with inadequate RF filters for many years, and have been allowed to get away with it. I dont care what their neighboring spectrum was "supposed" to be used for, that can change. The GPS industry got lazy, and its showing, and now its only more in the news. The GPS industry is entirely at fault, because the GPS industry refused to put proper RF filters on their devices for many years(many of which are still in use today), and many new GPS devices still do not have proper RF filters. It has been shown in studies, that if the GPS devices have proper RF filters, there was no interference. | |
| | | | | | r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea Not true. | |
| | | | | | | | said by Chubbysumo:See above this one comment. GPS receivers have been equipped with inadequate RF filters for many years, and have been allowed to get away with it. Parroting LightSquared's repeatedly-discredited arguments isn't going to make them any more valid then they were when LS first made them.
said by Chubbysumo:I dont care what their neighboring spectrum was "supposed" to be used for, Whether you care or not is inconsequential. Spectrum allocations, all spectrum allocations, have assigned uses. That can only be changed if such changes are in the public interest and are "practical." In this case, the requested change was deemed impractical.
said by Chubbysumo:It has been shown in studies, that if the GPS devices have proper RF filters, there was no interference.
It's only been "shown" by LightSquared's studies. Every other study and experiment I've seen has only gone to prove what any reasonably competent radio person already knew: You cannot stick exceedingly high-powered transmitters near exceedingly-sensitive receivers on nearby frequencies and expect the latter to work well--if at all. It's physics as we know it. Filters cannot fix it, even if it was reasonable to expect millions of existing GPS owners to have their GPS' retrofitted, or throw them away and buy new ones, for the benefit of Falcone & Co.
LightSquared got some spectrum on the cheap and tried to get it re-purposed. It was an effort that any half-way-competent radio engineer could have told them was never going to fly. One can only assume they either had incompetent technical consulting or they ignored good advice. Either way: This is their own fault and, given what the way they've gone about this says to me about them, the sooner they die the better for all concerned, IMO.
Jim | |
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| | Reviews:
·Charter
| said by jseymour:said by NOCTech75:Fix the damned GPS system and this won't be an issue. All those receivers receiving out of spectrum signals are screwing this up, instead of ignoring the data they still process it. Can't believe how screwed up this is. FIX THE GPS!
There's nothing wrong with GPS. Their RF filters have been inadequate for many years, allowing them to pick up lots of interference from neighboring spectrum bands. | |
| | | |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
2 edits | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea said by Chubbysumo:Their RF filters have been inadequate for many years, allowing them to pick up lots of interference from neighboring spectrum bands. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's difficult to replace millions (or billions) of devices that utilize GPS technologies.
..not to mention, if no one else wanted the spectrum, that should've clued LS on why others didn't want it. I know I'd be interested on why before I spent billions on a project that would have my rear on the line.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,768M RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,OpenBSD] | |
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| Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Are you willing to replace billions of devices that use the GPS system for free?
Doubtful.
Like they say.. If it is not broke.. DO NOT FIX IT.
LS's saying.. "If it is not broke.. FIX IT UNTIL IT IS."
Anyone who knows radio communications says this is an incredibly bad idea. They have approached LS several times with tons of technical data and facts.. only to have LS tell them to "piss off".
The problem with LS is, they have no technical sense and only corporate sense. No one, in their right mind, would have approved this.. even LS throwing money to change the laws of physics didn't work. | |
| | | | You GPSers just need to get over yourselves. | |
| | | | | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea Oh, you mean the GPS in your Cell phone. The GPS used at the Cell towers to get that equipment to EVEN work. The GPS used in cars, handhelds, Etc. The GPS in police vehicles to locate (automatically) response destinations for life saving. The GPS used in almost all modern farm equipment. The GPS used in any modern day construction for ground leveling, sewer work Etc.. The GPS used to locate fiber underground. The GPS our government uses to protect us and our troops on a daily basis. ETc.Etc.Etc.
Yeah, we ALL should just get over it, and use a compass I know. But a lot of us would be lost, and most industry would stop or fail at that point. Esspecially if cell phones didn't work any more.
Last point. Maybe in a way you will understand instead of the LS B.S. When a signal is too "hot" it doesn't matter what kind of filters you use. Unless of course you want all of these hand held GPS devices to be the size of a damn cinder block in your hand. You are talking about the difference in perceived signal perception of a GPS device from the satelitte at a whisper, while an adjacent LS tower sounding like you just walked in to a rock concert. The GPS device will no longer be able to "hear" the satelitte over that noise. Even at a 10Mhz buffer (that isn't crap BTW). It's not like the signals just disappear outside of the 10Mhz. They just start to "fade" at an audible slope (albeit something we can't hear)
It takes all kinds, I tell ya.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net | |
| | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: It's a shame the government is ruining this wonderful idea said by gunther_01:When a signal is too "hot" it doesn't matter what kind of filters you use. Unless of course you want all of these hand held GPS devices to be the size of a damn cinder block in your hand. You are talking about the difference in perceived signal perception of a GPS device from the satelitte at a whisper, while an adjacent LS tower sounding like you just walked in to a rock concert. Reminds me of WiFi vs. Microwave Oven. The GPS signal is the WiFi while LS network is the Microwave.
Let's see.. 100mW (WiFi) vs. 900+W (LS). Guess which signal becomes useless. Doesn't take an engineering genius to figure that one out.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo] | |
| | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by gunther_01:Yeah, we ALL should just get over it, and use a compass I know.
Well glad you know, and knowing is half the battle. Glad to see you are onboard with my position. | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | RE Yes see, LS gets their swap, they still go under, and T or Big Red come in and buy up the spectrum, at a discount.. | |
| Reviews:
·Comcast
 ·Verizon FiOS
·MSN
| This might be a good thing to do.... Right now Lightspeed's spectrum is right beside that used for GPS, an essential service for both commercial and government/defense. The DoD should consider warehousing this spectrum and then giving Lightspeed spectrum in a less important area. Having guard bands around GPS would be a good thing - and having additional contiguous spectrum available for a possible future enhanced GPS is prudent also.
This has the potential to be a win/win for everyone.... | |
| | |
WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5 | WISPs Need More Spectrum In all states, you have areas that are simply not served by wired incumbents. Let Wireless ISPs have the spectrum we need. | |
| | | SCO analogy? Is this going to be like SCO where some evil weasel can drag their abject failure on and on by blowing on the legal embers? Or in this case, blowing politicians. | |
| | | Muni-Wireless comparison This reminds me of the early days of muniwireless. The technical guys told the business guys they would walk on water. The business guys then extended that to mean they could fly too. The network technical guys sold the business guys a bill of goods based on their egos and lack of real wireless engineering skills. The business guys who had no idea of the technology then screwed investors without ever critically analyzing what they were promoting.
Investors got screwed both from manufacturers and providers. Falcone and his engineers did the same thing here. They should fail and be put out of business. | |
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