 mobOn the next level..Premium join:2000-10-07 | Good old socialism Oh oh, I get it.
Nobody is upset b/c the money is going to a company person, not a real human person. | |
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 |  |  FBGuyPremium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL | Re: Good old socialism I'm all for giving money out when it helps society progress. | |
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 |  |  The LimitPremium join:2007-09-25 Greensboro, NC kudos:2 Reviews:
·Windstream
| ...how exactly is this considered government welfare? How was nationwide phone service provided? I know, let's conveniently ignore that fact too while we are at it.
I'm sorry that I don't subscribe to the belief that "companies are in business for the best of the consumer, they can do no wrong, and we should just deregulate every industry in sight, because public shame will keep companies accountable." -- "We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must". ---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010) | |
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 |  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:3 | said by mob:Nobody is upset b/c the money is going to a company person, not a real human person. Ahh the selective memory.. must be a trait of a particular party.
Let us not forget how upset Americans were at the tarp bailouts. -- CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
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 |  |  mobOn the next level..Premium join:2000-10-07 Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
| Re: Good old socialism said by Rob:said by mob:Nobody is upset b/c the money is going to a company person, not a real human person. Ahh the selective memory.. must be a trait of a particular party. Let us not forget how upset Americans were at the tarp bailouts. Tsk tsk, don't bring politics into the fray. We have forums elsewhere for that type of discussion. -- Ich habe kein Mitleid - Me You're a daisy if you do. - Doc Holliday And as always, have nice day. | |
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 |  |  |  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:3 | Re: Good old socialism Heed your own advice. | |
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 |  |  |  | | You brought politics into the argument! Take your own damn advice!! | |
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 |  |  |  |  mobOn the next level..Premium join:2000-10-07 | Re: Good old socialism All I did was mention a glaring contradiction from a perspective of humanity.
You took it how you felt you should take it. Can't help you with that. | |
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 |  jpgrWAR join:2011-08-18 Clyde, OH | I for one lived with satelite internet cause Verizon did not want to invest . Thank God Frontier bought our lines I live 3.2 miles away from the CO and I love not getting a cap of just 19gb and 999ms know it's 34ms and unlimited gb . If I want to buy a game online I do I let it dnl while I sleep . If I want to watch netflix I do with no problem with just 1.5 mbs . Online gaming is alot more fun with people around the world then just single players .
And about this government welfare check you say...... pffff . The 92,000 residents who's getting the upgrade already payed there due's . There tax payers too people! Not some Ceo bank manager getting baileout an Giving bonuses cause they screwed there books all up ! | |
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 |  |  jdmm72 join:2002-02-12 Nitro, WV | Re: Good old socialism And the reason that you posted this twice is????
I can do it to...
And the problem with America today, "I done did pay my dues, now gimme, gimme, gimme." | |
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 Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Frontier, Vs Oil companies?, Car companies? Banks? Insurance you could find worse companies to feed corporate welfare to..
that said.. misuse of government money in Telecom is legendary, so there would need to be a SCTRICT line-by-line approval of what every cent spent does so that we don't see unnecessary equipment purchases, bloated labor & equipment charges, and fraud-waste-and-abuse of grant money. people need to know what X amount of dollars competitively buys in a given marketplace and see to it that there is a prudent value for the $. 100% of the funds allocated need to be posted online for public scrutiny... no just for frontier, but all USF and grant money. | |
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 RobIn Deo speramus.Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:3 | USF? Is this money coming from USF that has been collected? | |
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 |  FBGuyPremium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL | Re: USF? USF is not for this. | |
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 |  |  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:3 | Re: USF? said by FBGuy:USF is not for this. I was under the impression that the use of the USF has been modified to include extending broadband coverage to rural areas? -- CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
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 |  |  |  MikePremium,Mod join:2000-09-17 Pittsburgh, PA kudos:1 | Re: USF? Regardless it's DSL. No one cares about copper anymore. Fiber or go home. | |
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 |  |  |  |  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:3 | Re: USF? said by Mike:Regardless it's DSL. No one cares about copper anymore. Fiber or go home. Rural people do. | |
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 |  |  |  |  Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA | Depends on whether or not it's VDSL2. ADSL is becoming obsolete. | |
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 |  |  |  |  elray join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA | said by Mike:Regardless it's DSL. No one cares about copper anymore. Fiber or go home. Not exactly. DSL remains a viable part of the equation, given the real costs of deploying fiber. Trouble is, as cheap as it is, subscribers still don't want it.
But you've overlooked the real underlying reason that the taxpayers are wasting $1K/household to subsidize DSL: it gives the socialists, anarchists, populists, Occupoos, Dems, and lets not forget our esteemed blogger, Karl, a ten-year extension on fighting the good fight, as they will continue to assail Frontier, et al, for not providing "faster broadband", whatever that is at the moment. | |
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 |  |  |  |  ThalerPremium join:2004-02-02 Los Angeles, CA kudos:3 Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
| said by Mike:Regardless it's DSL. No one cares about copper anymore. Fiber or go home. Try living on satellite internet. You'll be begging for a 1.5 Mbps DSL in no time. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | nice to know you speak for everyone. | |
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 |  |  |  FBGuyPremium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL | I thought USF was only leveraged against voice services and not data services. I've never paid it with broadband only service. | |
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 |  |  |  |  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:3 | Re: USF? said by FBGuy:I thought USF was only leveraged against voice services and not data services. I've never paid it with broadband only service. I don't think they increased USF, but redirected the funds away from voice services to data services. -- CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  FBGuyPremium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL | Re: USF? that is quite unfortunate. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | said by Rob:said by FBGuy:I thought USF was only leveraged against voice services and not data services. I've never paid it with broadband only service. I don't think they increased USF, but redirected the funds away from voice services to data services. Rob is mostly correct, though USF fees have increased significantly starting around 2010.
»www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/connecting-america
Broadband has gone from being a luxury to a necessity for full participation in our economy and society for all Americans. For that reason, the FCC has adopted comprehensive reforms of its Universal Service Fund (USF) and Intercarrier Compensation (ICC) systems to accelerate broadband build-out to the 18 million Americans living in rural areas who currently have no access to robust broadband infrastructure. This reform will expand the benefits of high-speed Internet to millions of consumers in every part of the country by transforming the existing USF into a new Connect America Fund (CAF) focused on broadband.The fact of the matter is that the original goals of the USF were almost completely achieved years ago. Rather than end the chronically mismanaged USF, they (predictably) kept collecting the money to use elsewhere, because government programs never die. | |
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 SuntopPremium join:2000-03-23 Choteau, MT Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..
| Predictable The telecommunication barons win again with yet another welfare check. Now come on, I understand that there are places without broadband, and this is an issue that should of been solved. Yet, there is always something.
It seems awfully familiar that bullies get more money for nothing. :/ | |
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 |  Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA | Re: Predictable said by Suntop:The telecommunication barons win again with yet another welfare check. If the public is paying for it then the public should own it at least at the wholesale level. | |
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 |  |  SuntopPremium join:2000-03-23 Choteau, MT | Re: Predictable Simple, that is not allowable. This would give a voice that matters to their way of business. This however is only the tip. I'd be wary. | |
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 |  FBGuyPremium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL | it's only ~$72 million. not even a drop in the bucket. | |
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 |  |  SuntopPremium join:2000-03-23 Choteau, MT Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..
| Re: Predictable What? There is a bucket of money somewhere? Yeah, I learned that being greedy and selfish bullies is not cool. Someday, this will stop when there is a shift. All this money and we have bad education and healthcare. I pray that we do not have a repeat of history, this looks awfully familiar. I am saddened to of heard that we are 17th in science and 25th in math no wonder this happens. | |
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 |  |  |  FBGuyPremium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL | Re: Predictable We are #1 in defense spending though. THINK POSITIVE! | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Predictable I don't this we are anymore. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Predictable said by HeyJude:I don't this we are anymore. We spend as much on defense as the rest of the world combined.
Even the British Empire did not do that at the height of its power. They were content to spend as much as the second and third place countries, combined.
In our case, Russia + China = 30% of our defense budget.
Or perhaps you think that's unfair, because Russian and Chinese soldiers get paid less than ours. So use purchasing-power parity. At PPP, Russia + China = 50% of our defense budget.
Half of our annual defense budget is $350 billion. At $775 to serve each home with DSL, that works out to 452 million homes -- and there are only 114 million households in the US. In other words, three months of the overspending on the defense budget would be enough to wire up the whole country. (Of course, you'd allocate the budget over multiple years, because the suppliers couldn't make the equipment fast enough.)
And that $775 is to bring DSL to underserved rural areas, which by definition are expensive to serve. You could probably supply fiber to the suburbs/exurbs for the same amount -- especially with the volume discounts that you get for such a large buildout. China Telecom and China Unicom are getting astonishing prices due to the scale of their buildout -- 100 million people with at least FTTN by the end of the 12th Five-Year Plan (2011-2015).
With the remaining budget, you could also build high-speed rail, improve the power grid, resurface our highways, fix our bridges, etc. Remember -- $350 billion of money freed up every single year, to be spent on projects in our own country instead of blowing stuff up in other countries. And we would still be as powerful, relative to our competitors, as the greatest empire the world has ever seen.
Of course, this would never happen. Still, it's tantalizing to dream. | |
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 | | Huh? Why are we paying to build this out anyway? People live in the sticks for a reason. If they wanted the full amenities of being in the mainstream areas then they would have chosen those areas. It is bogus to spend our $ to provide access where there may be no demand to warrant this and to a sub-section of the population who chose to live outside the range of these types of amenities! | |
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 |  See 9 replies to this post |
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 | | Dag nab it! Here we go again! If we wanted a transcontinental railroad, individual ranchers would have built the tracks themselves. Isn't that how Free Enterprise works? | |
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 |  See 17 replies to this post |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Ridiculous Our country is broke but we have money to pay for this BS? -- Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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 |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium join:2004-12-10 Lorton, VA kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bright House
| Re: Ridiculous said by pnh102:Our country is broke but we have money to pay for this BS? That and then some.
 rMoney
... reposted as often as it takes
. -- Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery. | |
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 jdmm72 join:2002-02-12 Nitro, WV Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| Frontier, blah So, lets get this straight. Frontier buys out Verizon landlines in a bunch of states, states that they can make it better, and profitable, then puts out their hand to the gub'ment.
In my state alone, Verizon let the telco infrastructure rot for 25 years with no major improvements, let the copper corrode to being unusable in many places, actually filed to the PSC to cut off "underserved" area (which failed, my great grandmother lived in one of them). When our public service commission finally forced Verizon's hand, they then sold to Frontier, who inherited the crap. Whoever at Frontier thought it to be a good idea, needs to be fired. Oh, and don't forget the PSC has been after Frontier for Verizon's prior negligence also.
To be fair, Verizon wasn't the only utility to try to cut out underserved areas, AEP (American/Appalachian Electric Power) filed the same request. | |
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 | | Under served areas OK you guys maybe you should hear from someone who lives in one of those "under served" areas. I'm only 50 miles from a city of 4 million people (Phoenix) and I have exactly two Internet choices. Dial up at $25 a month at less than 56k or satellite at $100.00 a month and only slightly over 56k or I can drive 15 miles to the closest town with wifi and sit in my car as I am now for a couple of megabits. Oh did I mention it's 108 degrees here and I can't have my car AC running? DSL? Not profitable enough. Cable? Not profitable enough. I've tried to see if I can get a microwave relay to where I live so those of us there can have decent affordable broadband. I figure it will cost about $250-500K to do it and I could make about $5k net a month. Can I do it? Nope. Why? Cox Cable, Centurylink and Verzion block me from doing it. Why? They control all the towers and leases. Without Government help I am SOL. Now what can I do all you Mitt slaves? Revolution? Anarchy? Please let me know when you're ready to get serious. Maybe you'll all contribute to my broadband fund. LOL ironically. | |
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 |  | | Re: why are they still investing in old copper instead of fibre? I understand that in Maine, cooperation is being worked out between the utilities to share the poles to help with Fiber.
Also the TVA basically wired the country for Electrical Power. It was done.
I live just west of Pikes Peak, CO. I was promised Connection in 6 months, so the service was bought out. Now two years later I am promised 7 months. | |
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 |  jpgrWAR join:2011-08-18 Clyde, OH | I for one lived with satelite internet cause Verizon did not want to invest . Thank God Frontier bought our lines I live 3.2 miles away from the CO and I love not getting a cap of just 19gb and 999ms know it's 34ms and unlimited gb . If I want to buy a game online I do I let it dnl while I sleep . If I want to watch netflix I do with no problem with just 1.5 mbs . Online gaming is alot more fun with people around the world then just single players .
And about this government welfare check you say...... pffff . The 92,000 residents who's getting the upgrade already payed there due's . There tax payers too people! Not some Ceo bank manager getting baileout an Giving bonuses cause they screwed there books all up ! | |
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 |  |  jdmm72 join:2002-02-12 Nitro, WV | Re: why are they still investing in old copper instead of fibre? And the problem with America today, "I done did pay my dues, now gimme, gimme, gimme." | |
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 |  |  |  jpgrWAR join:2011-08-18 Clyde, OH | Re: why are they still investing in old copper instead of fibre? Your right look around what you get! | |
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 |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by ConstantineM:A 775$ subsidy per line for DSL?
Whereas the whole cost of an aerial fibre network is 500$ per house?
Yes, sounds like a good way to spend the federal money! When will these people finally put a stop on wasteful spending, and will approve of plans that actually benefit the consumers and the taxpayers? Frontier is simply charging their retail labor price to the govt. An ILEC craftsman/blue collar is $120 per hour, you need 2 in each truck. Even assuming $30 per hour cash pay, and $30 in payroll taxes and benefits, thats only $60 per hour. The other $60 are Frontier's dividends. Engineering is $200 per hour. The phone and cable networks were never built over the 20th century using the "retail" price of labor, they were built using in the internal price. | |
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 | | I love it I think some of you who proclaim Frontier is the best, needs to realize they were mandated in many states to bring DSL to unserved areas in each state. I think in IL they had to bring DSL to 90% of the towns they serve. NOW, they have their hand out for MORE money from the USF (I don't care what it's called now)
Here is another fun fact. USF has been paid in to for a very long time. Verizon took that money and made Verizon Wireless, instead of keeping up with the copper as far as I am concerned. It's government waste. -- »www.wirelessdatanet.net | |
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 Reviews:
·Millenicom
| Re "to an additional 92,876 households"
How odd that they've calculated it down to a single household. Anyway, I hope my house is one of those. I've been trying to get Verizon DSL here for the past 10 years. And then Frontier took over, and still no DSL. This is despite the fact that houses on the road to the east of here HAVE Frontier DSL.
You break my heart, Frontier. | |
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 wtf @cogentco.com | of course this happens So its OK for TAX money to be given to a corporation, but unfair if used by small communities that want to expand their broadband?
How do you figure? | |
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 |  jdmm72 join:2002-02-12 Nitro, WV | Re: of course this happens Is Frontier a small community, I think not. Was Verizon a small community, again the answer is NO! | |
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 |  |  jpgrWAR join:2011-08-18 Clyde, OH | Re: of course this happens Every person in rural America who is getting this so called welfare is a tax payer . So why not give back since this company Frontier is the only company stepping up to gobble up these rural folks (like me ) . The Government saw what Frontier did for the rural folks with it's own money. So know it see's the good the company is trying to do. Satelite is so expensive Frontier I predict will Grow to a major player ,eventually upgrading To fiber down the road AS the Gov already has plan's to make it less expensive to do so down Government roads /State roads. | |
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 |  |  |  jdmm72 join:2002-02-12 Nitro, WV Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| Re: of course this happens Give back, really? It's my money, taken from me, given to a private company, who has a checkered history of failing to do what other sweetheart deals with the government required.
But again, all you all want is "free" stuff from the gub'ment. | |
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 |  |  |  |  jpgrWAR join:2011-08-18 Clyde, OH | Re: of course this happens It's my money to buddy an I am not getting a dime from this I still have to pay taxes and pay for internet . And the 92,000 people but together getting the upgrade surely paid over 72 million in taxes, but who cares the deal went through ! | |
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