Japanese FTTH Gets Cheaper to Battle LTE FTTH Prices Drop 34% to $34 Per Month Tuesday Nov 27 2012 09:03 EDT Fiber to the home providers in Japan are having to lower their rates to compete with fast, cheap and reliable LTE services in the country. "Fixed-broadband giants NTT East and NTT West have been forced to slash their FTTH prices for new subscribers by an eye-watering 34 percent from ¥5,460 (US $66.70) to ¥3,600 ($34) per month to try and re-ignite their subscriber growth and stop the outflow of subscribers to cheaper LTE mobile broadband services," Tony Brown, senior analyst with Informa Telecoms & Media, on the company's blog (via Fierce Wireless). That may bode well for incumbent American telcos AT&T and Verizon, who have decided to hang up on wired broadband entirely across more than half of their footprint in order to focus primarily on LTE. Granted, Japanese LTE and FTTH carriers see significantly more competition.... |
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Telco
Member
2012-Nov-27 9:13 am
PricingThey have dropped their FTTH price to compete with 'cheaper' LTE. Having a look at their services, their FTTH speeds reach all the way up to 1Gbit/s.
Now compare this to ourselves, where the cheapest top tier cell plan for a mere 0.3GB data, costs $80 + tax. Taxes and fees are also typically (rationally) included in the price overseas.
Also amazing is how VZ charges more than double Japan for FIOS. Even when considering we have more people, which lowers the cost, and have one of the lowest minimum wage in the developed world. In addition, they have stopped their FTTH expansion.
This is why a cell company should not own any broadband services. It should be one or the other. We have two monopolies here that now amass the majority of data services. So there is zero incentive or market forces to driven competition. | |
|  |  88615298
Premium Member
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness |
88615298
Premium Member
2012-Nov-27 10:17 am
Re: Pricingsaid by Telco:Also amazing is how VZ charges more than double Japan for FIOS. Even when considering we have more people, which lowers the cost, Not when those people are spread out over much more area. Japan has half the population of the US in an area the size of Montana. Or basically imagine having everyone in the US live in Texas. Then sure I would think that FTTH and LTE would be cheaper. | |
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Telco
Member
2012-Nov-27 10:27 am
Re: Pricingsaid by 88615298:Not when those people are spread out over much more area. Japan has half the population of the US in an area the size of Montana. Or basically imagine having everyone in the US live in Texas. Then sure I would think that FTTH and LTE would be cheaper.
We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc, which still have 1 maybe 2 choices and cost double and up. Whereas, I was able to choose from about 9 networks when I was overseas: 2 cable providers, 2 Wimax, 5 ADSL2+ networks, and a plethora of resellers. In addition, can you explain how and why data services in nations with a lower population density than America also cost less? We have the highest data and cellular costs amongst the OECD, yet also offer some of the slowest speeds. Our current market and the monopolies the dominate it, is precisely what happens when you use this hands-off (no Government) Laissez-faire approach. | |
| | | | 88615298
Premium Member
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness |
88615298
Premium Member
2012-Nov-27 10:36 am
Re: Pricingsaid by Telco:We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc, which still have 1 maybe 2 choices and cost double and up. Whereas, I was able to choose from about 9 networks when I was overseas: 2 cable providers, 2 Wimax, 5 ADSL2+ networks, and a plethora of resellers. Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate. In addition, can you explain how and why data services in nations with a lower population density than America also cost less? Like Canada? That's sarcasm in case you didn't get that. | |
| | | | |  Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985 |
Jim Kirk
Premium Member
2012-Nov-27 10:40 am
Re: Pricingsaid by 88615298:said by Telco:We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc, which still have 1 maybe 2 choices and cost double and up. Whereas, I was able to choose from about 9 networks when I was overseas: 2 cable providers, 2 Wimax, 5 ADSL2+ networks, and a plethora of resellers. Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate. In addition, can you explain how and why data services in nations with a lower population density than America also cost less? Like Canada? That's sarcasm in case you didn't get that. Another ad hominem attack instead of providing an answer. Didn't expect any less I suppose. | |
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to 88615298
said by 88615298:Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate. Though you say it in just, that is exactly the problem with a mixture of Laissez-faire approach he mentioned. | |
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to 88615298
said by 88615298:Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate.
...
Like Canada? That's sarcasm in case you didn't get that. I'm not going to get into a pointless discussion where you spout out talking-points from faux news and Rush. The fact is that with the exception of ourselves and Canada, the rest of the OECD pay much less, receive faster services, and have significantly more options. Surely folks who are apparently 'experts' in economics and capitalism (cough cough) would grasp the benefit of competition. You know, as in having more companies than just monopolies and duopolies. Those of us who learned deductive reasoning, critical thinking and even something as simple as reading an economics book, realize that competition benefits the American people - but lowers profits. Therefore, while these businesses talk a big game about the free market and no regulation, staying a monopoly secures and entitles them to hefty profit margins. | |
| | | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Zoom 5341J
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to 88615298
said by 88615298:Rich evil greedy corporations I guess.
Despite your misplaced sarcasm, yes, that is exactly it. Captive market, blocked competition, maximize revenue. The entire problem in a nutshell. --
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | |  bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5 |
to Telco
said by Telco:Our current market and the monopolies the dominate it, is precisely what happens when you use this hands-off (no Government) Laissez-faire approach.
It's a bit unfair to compare us to Japan. As has already been pointed out, providers there enjoy a much more dense population. It's much easier - i.e. less cost - to fiber up an MDU than is is a residential neighborhood. Additionally, there are different regulatory requirements and benefits to service providers in Japan than in the U.S. I suppose we could seek to have our government intervene and require 1Gbs connectivity everywhere and pay for it out of our tax money but I am not sure that would end up giving us the best service as citizens in the long run - I refer to this article to base my distrust of our government being effective » Verizon Still Screwing West Virginia, Even After Leaving StateIt should be noted that most of the telcos and MSOs are actively looking for ways to increase their capabilities (EPON, DOCSIS channel bonding and next gen DOCSIS) and I think they will continue to chase consumer demand for better performance and the dollars that are associated with them that is to say, I trust their greed to drive them to meet consumer demand more than a I trust the competency of the government to do it effectively via regulation Still, I find it amusing that every time we see a post about some other country or city getting better speeds we have so many people popping up and like an indolent Veruca Salt screaming "I want it, I want it now!" Broadband performance in the US is doing pretty good. It wasn't all that long ago that I thought I was pretty happy with my 128K ISDN connection that cost me $120 a month for the phone line and $50 a month for my ISP. | |
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Telco
Member
2012-Nov-27 4:01 pm
Re: PricingDoing "pretty good" compared to what exactly? RWer gut-feelings maybe.
We used to lead the world, whereas, today we are constantly ranked close to dead last in everything but defense.
I am sure the GOP base is happy with this, heck look at the condition of red states. However, the rest of us want to propel the country forward again. Being not bad or okay is not good enough. | |
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| | |  NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12 |
to Telco
said by Telco:We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc ...
Greater Tokyo + Keihanshin (Kyoto/Kobe/Osaka) - 53,250,984 souls. NYC Metro + Chicago Metro + LA Metro - 41,187,051 souls. Just combining the two most populous metro regions of Japan, the three most populous metro regions of the U.S. and comparing them. Of course, Greater Tokyo + Keihanshin comprise a little under half the population of Japan. NYC Metro + Chicago Metro + LA Metro comprise a little over one tenth the population of the United States. Just saying. FWIW. --
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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Telco
Member
2012-Nov-27 4:04 pm
Re: PricingPopulation density (per sq mi)
Tokyo: 16,000
NYC: 27,243
Chicago: 11,864
Not to mention, our carriers have enormous buying power, which should further reduce the cost of capital. As do the aforementioned points of paying half the wages, significantly lower taxes, and so forth. | |
| | | | | | NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12 |
Re: Pricingsaid by Telco:Population density (per sq mi)
So? You were talking "metro areas"; I showed you "metro areas". --
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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to 88615298
IIRC Japan's gov't also paid a large chunk for the fiber rollout directly, not via subsidies like our gov't did | |
| | | | openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
Springfield, VA
kudos:2 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2012-Nov-27 9:53 pm
Re: PricingI believe NTT is 30% owned by the Japanese government. | |
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| | Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX |
to 88615298
said by 88615298:said by Telco:Also amazing is how VZ charges more than double Japan for FIOS. Even when considering we have more people, which lowers the cost, Not when those people are spread out over much more area. Japan has half the population of the US in an area the size of Montana. Or basically imagine having everyone in the US live in Texas. Then sure I would think that FTTH and LTE would be cheaper. Your argument falls flat on it's face on high density areas such as Los Angeles, New York, Miami, etc. | |
| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
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Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2
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to 88615298
The population density excuse is just that, an excuse.
The real reason is because we have a system that protects incumbents and blocks competition, so they overcharge us just because they can.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Telco
Member
2012-Nov-27 10:47 pm
Re: PricingThe irony is that in America we have both states and cities that have higher and lower population density. As we all know, higher density lowers the cost per sq mi.
Therefore, there isn't any rational reason as to why highly populated states (Texas, Cali, and NY) do not have a range of competitors (options).
Which is why it all comes down to the market being deliberately manipulated and skewed in their favor - to maximize profits. It's no different to organized crime eliminating competition. | |
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JasonOD to Telco
Anon
2012-Nov-27 11:49 am
to Telco
It's unfair to compare VZ FIOS with Japanese fiber, as VZ is also a LTE company with mobile as its driving focus. Except for google, apparently, nobody cares about FTTH service. The returns just aren't there. | |
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Telco
Member
2012-Nov-27 4:06 pm
Re: Pricingsaid by JasonOD :It's unfair to compare VZ FIOS with Japanese fiber, as VZ is also a LTE company with mobile as its driving focus. Except for google, apparently, nobody cares about FTTH service. The returns just aren't there.
For starters, our markets are dominated by untouchable monopolies. It's like walmart, nobody has the means to take them on, so they dictate the market. Come to think of it, if these carriers indeed 'do not care' about FTTH, then why are these same indifferent carriers up-in-arms the second any muni FTTH project is proposed? I thought it's useless and they're not interested in it... However, they always turn around and spend millions lobbying and suing our government, to ensure their profit margins stay in tact. | |
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| nitzan
VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8 |
to Telco
said by Telco:Having a look at their services, their FTTH speeds reach all the way up to 1Gbit/s. That's just marketing hype - you might get good speeds (more like 100mbit/sec) inside Japan, but anything outside Japan is more like 10mbit/sec, maybe a little better. Just because the connection is 1Gbit/s doesn't mean you're actually getting that speed. Also amazing is how VZ charges more than double Japan for FIOS. I don't know about the recent price drop, but I had 1Gbit/s in Japan 3 years back and it was way more expensive than any ISP I had back in the US. It cost a few hundred just to set it up, and the monthly fee was about $60-70/month. | |
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Pricing ErrorThere is a typing error in the pricing conversion.
FTTH prices for new subscribers by an eye-watering 34 percent from ¥5,460 (US $66.70) to ¥3,600 ($34)
The 3,600 Yen is actually equivalent to $43.98, a difference of only $22.72. But still a very significant drop. Note also that this rate is only for NEW subscribers, so it is just a teaser to get users to sign up. Marketing costs, that is all the discount is.
Now if NTT-E & -W had municipal wireless, either Small Cell Wi-Fi and / or LTE-Advanced when available, on top of their FTTH, ... ummmm? | |
|  skeechanAi Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
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skeechan
Premium Member
2012-Nov-27 11:22 am
LTE there is actually pricy when you look at unlimited dataThey may be seeing slower growth but that is because their market is saturated...there are no more "new" users. They must get it from other wireline customers or try to up sell current customers. NTT is the largest mobility company there, so they would be fighting with themselves. SoftBank is the Sprint of Japan and AU/KDDI isn't going to stimulate this kind of panic.
These are new sub teaser rates just like US wireline has 6-12 month teaser rates. That doesn't mean Time Warner Cable or Cox do the promos because they are competing with Verizon Wireless LTE. | |
| | openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
Springfield, VA
kudos:2 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2012-Nov-27 9:57 pm
Re: LTE there is actually pricy when you look at unlimited dataYes. There's nothing cheap about mobile services in Japan. We don't ever read stories about that though. | |
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FTTH and LTE are not in the same class.Perfect conditions with LTE can't compare to FTTH. Why is it ever considered competition? | |
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Re: FTTH and LTE are not in the same class.said by buzz_4_20:Perfect conditions with LTE can't compare to FTTH. Why is it ever considered competition?
The only people that consider it competition are people that do not do anything with their connection. | |
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 antdudeA Ninja Ant
VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:5 |
Dang!I should move to Japan or South Korea. :P | |
| | bbeesley
VIP
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Richardson, TX
kudos:5 |
Re: Dang!said by antdude:I should move to Japan or South Korea. :P
It would be cheaper to call your local cable company and pay them to extend fiber from the nearest splice point and then sign up for a business fiber Ethernet service | |
| | | antdudeA Ninja Ant
VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:5  ·Time Warner Cable
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Re: Dang!said by bbeesley:said by antdude:I should move to Japan or South Korea. :P
It would be cheaper to call your local cable company and pay them to extend fiber from the nearest splice point and then sign up for a business fiber Ethernet service How much would that be as an estimate? | |
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| | openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
Springfield, VA
kudos:2 |
to antdude
Don't let the broadband tease sway you. You'll likely pay much more for everything else while you're here. Not being "rich", I doubt that tradeoff is a good one. | |
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