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Baltimore Still Begging Verizon for FiOS
Verizon Hasn't The Heart to Tell Them They're Screwed

For several years now the city of Baltimore has been asking Verizon why they, and several other significant cities like Buffalo, Boston, and Alexandria weren't seen fit to receive FiOS upgrades. Despite half a decade of asking the same question, they still don't seem to be getting any answers. North Baltimore residents met with Verizon last week to again ask when their aging DSL lines will be upgraded.

If you've been following along at home you know the answer to that question is never, but Verizon continues to essentially play patty cake with these communities:

quote:
"At this time we’ve not been extending any franchises anywhere in the country," said Tad Bishop, Verizon’s vice president of Governmental Affairs...Bishop declined to discuss why Verizon decided to extend its FiOS to some communities in the Baltimore metro area and not others, saying it was a business decision and cited proprietary issues. "These are the kind of things we don’t put on display," Bishop said...He also rejected the notion—raised by a community member—that the city was being avoided because of racial or socioeconomic reasons. He pointed out that Boston also does not receive FiOS service. "We’re not picking and choosing per se," Bishop said.
How are you not "picking and choosing" when you're clearly picking and choosing? The news outlet above fails to note that Verizon does offer just standalone FiOS service to a select few, luxury apartment complexes in Baltimore, so picking and choosing is exactly what Verizon is doing. And while that picking and choosing obviously isn't outright targeting lower income people of color, that's precisely who their mystery selection criteria ends up hurting in places like Baltimore and Buffalo.

Baltimore is one of many cities who simply want somebody to come in and provide better broadband service, but don't offer an attractive enough return on the investment for any large, investor-forcused private company to bother. Verizon certainly isn't interested, though it's kind of them to continue to attend these meetings year after year in order to deliver non-answers in person.
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danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

danclan

Member

Given the volume of subsidies

that they have received that it would be in their best interest to deploy where they are being begged to due to demand. It would build goodwill and be good for business.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Given the volume of subsidies

But why when they aren't forced to do so nor are they held accountable when they fail?

Ask Pennsylvania where their $200 billion went? Did you see any consequences on Verizon or the politicians that gave it to them for that major failure?

skuv
@rr.com

skuv

Anon

Re: Given the volume of subsidies

said by Skippy25:

Ask Pennsylvania where their $200 billion went? Did you see any consequences on Verizon or the politicians that gave it to them for that major failure?

I really doubt PA gave Verizon $200 Billion with a B.

More like, $2 billion.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Given the volume of subsidies

Maybe you should do a little research then.

Start by searching for 200 billion broadband scandal and Bruce Kushnick
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Given the volume of subsidies

Apparently you should do a little more research. The $200 billlion did not come from Pennsylvania. It came from many states.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to Skippy25

MVM

to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

Ask Pennsylvania where their $200 billion went? Did you see any consequences on Verizon or the politicians that gave it to them for that major failure?

Pennsylvania never had $200 billion to spend. Pennsylvania will only spend 25% of what California will spend in 2013; and California can't find anything close to the $68 billion they will need to build their HSR from Los Angeles to San Francisco!
mjmellin
join:2005-06-24
Englishtown, NJ

mjmellin

Member

Someone should organize a lawsuit

They are violating their franchise agreement in NJ. They were supposed to deploy to all areas. Then they went and selectively deployed where they deemed fit and ignored everywhere else.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Re: Someone should organize a lawsuit

A lawsuit would be good because then they can be forced through the discovery process and depositions their reasons for not upgrading certain areas.

If they were forced to disclose their "real" reason for not upgrading certain areas (like where I live in Springfield, MA), they'll probably settle with the plaintiffs, not admit any wrongdoing and upgrade the rest of their areas to FiOS.

They're probably not disclosing their reasons as it will cause irreversible damage control issues.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

Re: Someone should organize a lawsuit

I hear ya but a lawsuit benefits only the lawyers.

Instead, leverage the politicians that are lobbied by Verizon's special interest groups. Or get some grassroots movement of your own that shows how companies are using federal subsidies to benefit them, not the customer.

but nothing will get done as the telco formerly known as ma-bell is constipated.
tanzam75
join:2012-07-19

3 edits

tanzam75 to mjmellin

Member

to mjmellin
said by mjmellin:

They are violating their franchise agreement in NJ. They were supposed to deploy to all areas. Then they went and selectively deployed where they deemed fit and ignored everywhere else.

No.

The systemwide franchise agreement required Verizon to deploy to every county seat in New Jersey that it serves, plus a specific list of municipalities. If you're not on the list, then Verizon has no obligation to deploy FiOS in your area.

In total, there are 565 municipalities in New Jersey. Of these, Verizon's systemwide franchise only covers 369 of them. In the other 196 that are served by a different ILEC, Verizon would have to negotiate with the municipal government for a franchise, like any other cable overbuilder.

Of the 369 municipalities where Verizon is permitted to build FiOS, it is required to deploy to 70 of them, with deadlines ranging from 2012 to 2015. The other 299 may or may not get FiOS -- probably not.

Note 1: These numbers are from the 2010 BPU report. »www.nj.gov/bpu/pdf/cable ··· 6910.pdf Verizon originally obtained a 316-muncipality franchise that covered only the areas where it is already the ILEC. They later got the BPU to extend it to some adjacent areas.

Note 2: DSLReports keeps calling it a "statewide franchise." It's not. It's a "systemwide" franchise.
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

1 recommendation

serge87

Member

Where is the demand coming from?

Is it a "techie" minority that are begging for FIOS or is it everyone? If it's a majority then Verizon is missing out on potential revenue. If it's just a loud minority, then not taking on the risk of unprofitable investments(regardless of racial, socioeconomic issues, etc) is simply Business 101.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Where is the demand coming from?

Lets see, Verizon FiOS has nearly a 40% penetration rate, so yea, just say 40% of the people want it, its probably more overall if you include the "bouncers"
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom

Member

Build it

Baltimore doesn't have to waste all the taxpayers' money on pork and fraud, some can be spared for a project even if it might turn a profit

Mellow
Premium Member
join:2001-11-16
Salisbury, MD

Mellow

Premium Member

LTE

Verizon already serves these areas with a faster than DSL service, 4G LTE.

Only problems are, it is:
A. Overpriced
B. Expensive overages

Right now most people on DSL plans are paying around $35/month for 3mbit/768.

Switching to LTE would get you 4 gigs for around that same amount, and if you go over your hit with Data overages of $15 per 1 GB of data if you go over your plan allowance. OUCH!

So you would be better off switching to Comcast for $50/month with 250 gig "caps", which is what Verizon REALLY wants you to do.

Maybe someday Verizon will come back with special LTE rates to lure the Comcast customers back.

So don't expect FiOS in your area anytime soon, they think they already have you covered.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: LTE

No, they don't. It is impossible to serve a community like Baltimore with LTE as a broadband replacement option. Absolutely no way they have the network capacity. That's just some rumor started on this website assuming Verizon is incompetent which they have proven not to be.

xNPC
As Usual, Have Nice Day
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC

xNPC

Premium Member

Re: LTE

wrong again.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: LTE

Am I? How so?

xNPC
As Usual, Have Nice Day
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC

xNPC

Premium Member

Re: LTE

you have no idea of our network capacity, all youre doing is posting your ridiculous conclusions. which are wrong. you need to learn to brain

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Mellow

Premium Member

to Mellow
Verizon isn't interested in landlines anymore, except for servicing large businesses in their terrirtory. Wireless is their future and where all their investment money is going and where it will continue to go in the future. Residences will get wireless or they will get nothing from Verizon.

Want a landline? Better hope the cable companies stick around.

chip89
Premium Member
join:2012-07-05
Columbia Station, OH

chip89

Premium Member

Re: LTE

That's how it is here Thir is no verzion wireline That I know of in the state it is all wireless here.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
I thought there were two companies: Verizon and Verizon Wireless.

xNPC
As Usual, Have Nice Day
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC

xNPC

Premium Member

Re: LTE

verizon and vodafone jointly but not equally , own vzw. soon vz will own all of or most of vzw, then watch the prices go even higher.

AnonMe
@comcastbusiness.net

AnonMe to Mellow

Anon

to Mellow
said by Mellow:

Only problems are, it is:
A. Overpriced
B. Expensive overages

Don't forget:

C. Wireless consistency and reliability is nothing like cable modem or FIOS. People seem to think bandwidth is all that counts. That's just one or many considerations. Wireless might work for some people, but it is far from an apple to apples replacement for many of us!
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to Mellow

Member

to Mellow
Verizon LTE doesn't work well in all areas.

xNPC
As Usual, Have Nice Day
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC

xNPC to Mellow

Premium Member

to Mellow
you are CORRECT! mostly (to mellow)

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

1 recommendation

R4M0N

Member

Someone always has to play the race card

Even for FIOS deployment...
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Re: Someone always has to play the race card

Yep. They aren't picking based on race, why would they? They are picking and choosing where they can make "obscene" profit, as opposed to "some" profit.
Zen6
join:2011-06-04
Saratoga Springs, NY

Zen6

Member

Re: Someone always has to play the race card

True.

xNPC
As Usual, Have Nice Day
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC

xNPC to axus

Premium Member

to axus
you aint seen nuthin yet.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

tc1uscg to axus

Member

to axus
said by axus:

Yep. They aren't picking based on race, why would they? They are picking and choosing where they can make "obscene" profit, as opposed to "some" profit.

So, is there other providers in these areas or is it like Walmart. VZ comes in, runs everyone else out of town, then leaves the masses hanging with sub par service or non at all? Seems to me that these cities didn't know what they were doing when they contracted with big red and now they realized they screwed themselves out of what the rest of the country (or the places VZ cherry picked) is enjoying? Is that about right? Maybe they should be talking to Google. I'm sure that will get Verizons attention.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to axus

Member

to axus
said by axus:

Yep. They aren't picking based on race, why would they? They are picking and choosing where they can make "obscene" profit, as opposed to "some" profit.

Would you please tell us, what constitutes an "obscene" profit?

Do you even know what Verizon's profit margins have been for the past three years?

stevek1949
We're not in Kansas anymore
Premium Member
join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA

stevek1949

Premium Member

I want Google Fiber!

[sarchasm] I can't get Google Fiber because they are picking and choosing! Where is the outrage! We need a lawsuit! [/sarchasm]

Ctrl Alt Del
Premium Member
join:2002-02-18

Ctrl Alt Del

Premium Member

Surrounding areas have FiOS

Some surrounding areas around Baltimore have FiOS. It's like they want us out of the city!

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

1 recommendation

kingdome74

Premium Member

Tease

Everyone knows you always tease a girl along while your dating someone else just in case you need her in an emergency.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

FiOS

Baltimore would be profitable. Verizon will no doubt deploy there once they finish up their current franchise agreements and LTE network.

•••••••
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Exactly who is begging for

15 meg internet that cost $75 a month?

PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

PapaMidnight

Member

Re: Exactly who is begging for

said by 88615298:

15 meg internet that cost $75 a month?

People who get reamed by Comcast for 16/2 at over $100 a month.
malletto
join:2009-01-03
Purcellville, VA

malletto

Member

Don't understand Verizon

I don't get it why they have stopped FIOS expansion. There are entire cities that are practically BEGGING them for it and want to throw money at the company yet it ignores them. If I were a stockholder in Verizon I would want to know why the company isn't doing everything it can to increase it's profits. It has a great product, prices are getting a little out of wack but they are the only ones that really have done fiber to the home and they just stop. So weird.

•••••••

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170

1 edit

skeechan

Premium Member

Maybe if these localities weren't into extortion...

...VZ would be more willing to deploy. But when they do, we see time and time again, municipalities with their hands out looking for (er, demanding) freebees.

If it were lucrative for VZ to deploy in these areas they would do it.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Copy Chattanooga

When the private sector fails to provide what the citizens want, then they should petition the government, in this case for municipal broadband. It has done quite well in Chattanooga and I'm sure it would work in Baltimore, too.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

What about my cities in So. CA?

They are available in some neighborhoods, but not mine? Arghh!
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

jjeffeory

Member

Re: What about my cities in So. CA?

In some SoCal cities, half the city has FiOS and the other half doesn't. Taken Yucaipa for instance. The CO that is for Calimesa and Yucaipa has FiOS, the other CO doesn't have it. There's some wackiness going on right there....

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview

Premium Member

Time to contact Google ...

If Baltimore would contact Google with their sob story, and an attractive offer to entice them to deploy fiber ther, they *might* consider it. Baltimore would be a PERFECT place for Google to get right in the thick of the mid-atlantic market.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Re: Time to contact Google ...

said by newview:

If Baltimore would contact Google with their sob story, and an attractive offer to entice them to deploy fiber ther, they *might* consider it. Baltimore would be a PERFECT place for Google to get right in the thick of the mid-atlantic market.

Not a chance in hell. Baltimore City is so rife with corruption that even Oprah Winfrey complained about the schools here.

»hocomd.wordpress.com/200 ··· schools/

Google would come in and Baltimore would start charging extra fees AFTER a signed contract.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf

Member

Baltimore isn't the only town...

A lot of us in New Jersey, Toms River and it's surrounding towns ALSO want FiOS if not for the service but for the competition to get Comcast to lower prices and quicken innovation because quite frankly Comcast moves as slow as the senior citizens in Holiday City when it comes to rolling out any new features and updates and their prices are as high as their ages. What sucks is that they started rolling out FiOS in certain parts of Toms River years ago because of some obligation they had made in those sections 10 years prior, then immediately went no further to new areas. I find it ironic that the Verizon Wireless store is setup for FiOS as a selling point but no other businesses around it is. It's too bad the FCC or Federal Trade Commission or someone can't strong arm Verizon to actually roll out the FiOS everywhere.
tanzam75
join:2012-07-19

tanzam75

Member

Re: Baltimore isn't the only town...

said by Mike Wolf:

What sucks is that they started rolling out FiOS in certain parts of Toms River years ago because of some obligation they had made in those sections 10 years prior, then immediately went no further to new areas.

How much of Tom's River is covered at present? If Verizon has covered 50% (by customer count, I think), then it has fulfilled the present conditions of the statewide franchise.

The other 50% is not required to be covered until October 2013. As you might expect, Verizon will focus on areas that have an earlier deadline.

Beechwood is not on the required build-out list for Verizon's systemwide franchise. Toms River is, because it's the county seat.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf

Member

Re: Baltimore isn't the only town...

Not sure about anything at this point, especially the saturation percentage of FiOS in Toms River, but when they installed FiOS in certain parts of Toms River in 2007 I was told then that they were only fulfilling an agreement they had made 10 years prior. Of course it was in the rich part of the town with the fancy houses. Kinda feels like Verizon just wants to roll out their FiOS in high income areas where they have a better chance of residents signing up (Nothing new there ) I remember being told by a Verizon technician in 2012 that they didn't want to do anymore in Ocean County because of the requirements they have to fulfill with towns in order for them to get permission to do work. One example he gave me in an adult community in Toms River (age 55 and over) was that they had to do the municipal buildings and public buildings before they were allowed to offer it to the residents, but not enough people signed up for it either due to the cost or inconvenience of installation or both or something else, so Verizon ended up losing money. This happened too many times and I guess they just decided to abandon it for a while. He also told me that Verizon has been taking money out of copper line maintenance to put towards recovering costs of FiOS, but I can't confirm how true that would be. Brick, which is right above Toms River and is also serviced by Comcast, has FiOS.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

speak with your PROPERTY TAX DOLLARS

MOVE!!!

Let vast swaths of the geography become ghost towns with tumble weeds and maybe the municipalities will wake up.

xNPC
As Usual, Have Nice Day
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC
·Shaw
ARRIS TG3482

4 edits

xNPC

Premium Member

helloooo?

it is simply because they plan to offer fixed LTE in those areas. they will get MORE money. after they grab up the rest of vzw from vodafone, and with the backroom deals made with comcast and other cable providers for all that spectrum... they will make a TON more money offering fixed LTE. no one here has figured that out already? really? if you just read carefully and look at it from a business pov it starts to make sense now right? of course it does. youre welcome. have nice day.

/thread

•••
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Guys, there are reasons...

Take it from someone who lived there. Here is a bit of a history lesson.

I moved to Baltimore City in 1980. There was NO cable TV in the city but there was in the surrounding counties. In fact, northern Anne Arundel County had 2 cable companies serving the area. Baltimore City had nothing.

The reason they had nothing was because the City Council kept making outrageous demands of any cable suitor that came in (free cable for all public schools, 10 public access channels, etc.) The only demand they had that made any sense was that 100% of the city had to be wired for service. FINALLY, in 1984, they had United Cable come in and start and it took 4 years to wire everyone up (and even that took some cajoling.)

After a while, there were a lot of issues with non-payment of services and a LOT of boxes (since all channels were scrambled) being stolen. There was even a month that no one could sign up for service because there were no boxes left. Many were never turned in or simply thrown away when people moved or were evicted (a common sight in the city.)

Even some of the cable employees were committing scams on the population by taking money for service that was never hooked up through door to door solicitations.

United Cable because United Artists Cable and then TCI and finally Comcast. Even when Comcast took over, it took years before they offered cable modem service. I left in 2001 and it still wasn't available.

Baltimore City is simply a money pit. Too many ways to lose money along with a City Council that begs for money on a daily basis. FIOS will not pay off in the entire city but would work in the more affluent areas like Federal Hill but the city would never allow red-lining like that.

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