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Squire James
Anon
2013-Jun-13 9:42 am
Hard To TellFirst of all, I do not consider anything that he leaked to be a surprise... ever since the NSA said they were only monitoring calls that went outside the U.S. my thought ran along the lines of "those cell satellites aren't in the U.S." He was merely pointing out the elephant in the room.
He could be using this as a moral justification for treason. The leak itself may not be treason, but it is possible other actions he might have taken with the Chinese lately could be.
Not knowing his actual motives and actions means I can't accurately judge or label him at this time. | |
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 |  Michail
Premium Member
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1 |
Michail
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 11:36 am
Re: Hard To Tellsaid by Squire James :First of all, I do not consider anything that he leaked to be a surprise... ever since the NSA said they were only monitoring calls that went outside the U.S. my thought ran along the lines of "those cell satellites aren't in the U.S." He was merely pointing out the elephant in the room.
He could be using this as a moral justification for treason. The leak itself may not be treason, but it is possible other actions he might have taken with the Chinese lately could be.
Not knowing his actual motives and actions means I can't accurately judge or label him at this time.
Exactly, I think we already knew all of this. It was mostly rumor and educated guesswork though. It's also odd he's run to a far worse government. | |
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| |  ArrayListDevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Boston, MA |
Re: Hard To TellIt's still rumor and educated guesswork. | |
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He IS a PatriotBased upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob | |
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|  FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5 |
FFH5
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 10:00 am
Re: He IS a Patriotsaid by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. | |
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Re: He IS a Patriotsaid by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. I agree. | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. Proof that he is working for the Chinese? | |
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Re: He IS a Patriotsaid by KodiacZiller:Proof that he is working for the Chinese?
Let's see.... he runs away to the PRC (*) and then discloses details of a National Security program that was directed against them. What exactly was the moral imperative that required the disclosure of this program? It has nothing to do with American citizens or our civil liberties. China has been engaged in cyber warfare against the United States for two decades. Obviously we're going to respond and take steps to protect ourselves. This is actually a legitimate part of the NSA's duties, regardless of what you may think of their domestic activities. This kid is a traitor to his country. He deserves to spend the rest of his life at ADX Florence. Doubt it will happen, because the PRC isn't likely to let him go. I'm sure their intelligence agencies will find him to be a rather tasty acquisition. He will come to regret picking Hong Kong as a place of refuge. (*) Don't even try and say that Hong Kong isn't part of the PRC. They have some level of autonomy, but then so do Native American reservations. Do you think you could avoid the influence of Washington by running away to one of them? Not bloody likely.... | |
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Re: He IS a PatriotMaybe it was all about timing. With the details of the Xbox One privacy concerns and the backdoor access to major online companies, steam is already building for a privacy movement and this could have just been a catalyst to really get the discussion going. | |
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to Crookshanks
Since when was PRISM and all this other crap directed at China? | |
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| |  MaxoYour tax dollars at work.
VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL |
to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. The traitors are those working to tear apart of democracy in the name of false security. In a fantasy world the Chinese government is spear-heading exposing efforts of governments across the world that turn against their own citizens. | |
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to FFH5
And telling American citizens they are being spied on illegally is not patriotic?
His actions were patriotic, regardless of his motives. | |
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| | | ArrayListDevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Boston, MA |
Re: He IS a PatriotPeople label him as a patriot without even checking to see if what he says is true or not. He could be full of shit. | |
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| | | | clone
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN  ·T-Mobile US
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clone
Member
2013-Jun-13 2:21 pm
Re: He IS a PatriotYou posted last week that no one should be surprised by any of this (obviously because it's been going on for years), now we should hate this guy because he could be "full of shit". Which one is it, should we not be outraged because he's a liar, or should we not be outraged because this is old news? Can't have it both ways.
I've noticed that the arguments of the establishment-lovers has slipped, in just a week's time, down Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement from contradiction, down to attacking the tone, then came the ad-homs, now we're at plain out name-calling.
Very telling. | |
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to TechnoGeek
said by TechnoGeek:His actions were patriotic, regardless of his motives.
What do you find to be patriotic about this? When did it become patriotic to give aid and comfort to the enemies of these United States? I guess Benedict Arnold and Tokyo Rose were also patriots... | |
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join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN ·T-Mobile US
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clone
Member
2013-Jun-13 2:49 pm
Re: He IS a PatriotThe NSA hacks China? Boy, I'm sure they'll be fucking shocked to find that out. In other news, water is wet, the sky is blue, and grass is green.
At this point, this patriot is probably just trying to get some kind of protection, since he knows that whistleblowers get disappeared in the new Amerika. | |
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Re: He IS a Patriotsaid by clone:The NSA hacks China? Boy, I'm sure they'll be f***ing shocked to find that out. In other news, water is wet, the sky is blue, and grass is green. I'm sure that right after they change their pants that are sopping wet from their uncontrollable laughter at this mess that the United States Government has gotten itself into, they will be properly shocked and dismayed. | |
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to Crookshanks
Re: He IS a PatriotOh that.
I agree on that point. That is military info concerning a foreign country, stuff we as citizens do not need to know. That is far from patriotic.
Not like we didn't suspect it though. | |
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| | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK |
to Crookshanks
Since when was it ok for the NSA and our own Government to BE the enemies of the United States? | |
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| | dra6o0n
join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON |
to FFH5
How can he be a traitor when he wasn't really a ally in the first place?
And don't give me the 'oath' and 'allegiance' crap. Humans never once trust one another enough to be lifetime allies, it's situational.
Enemies can be allies in a certain time frame, then become enemies or neutral in another time frame.
You look at individuals as neutral, with their actions or their role being beneficial or consequential to others.
It's like how USA invented the word terrorism was back then. | |
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| | | openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
Springfield, VA
kudos:2 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 6:07 pm
Re: He IS a Patriotsaid by dra6o0n:And don't give me the 'oath' and 'allegiance' crap. The legal oath (yes, you sign acknowledgement of your legal responsibilities and potential severe penalties for failing to safeguard classified information) that he took when he was granted the privilege of access to classified information, means he was a trusted ally and partner. Snowden just thumbed his nose at the world stating that he's untrustworthy and will flip for some BS reason, regardless of his word and commitment. Label him whatever you want, but if he is the leak, he's legally liable for his damage to our national security. He can share a cell with Manning. | |
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| |  Anonymous_Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. He was bring some illegal government activity to the spot light. This has put a lot of pressure on the government. We The People, DO have the right to know. What part of that don't you under stand? | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. The traders are ones who endorse spying (such as you) and the ones who had any approval of it such as congress (Please note congress is the opposite of progress ) | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. Runs to the Chinese and reveals that USA is spying on their citizens at home and abroad with no real oversight? Wow what a national security threat. NOT. What I do bet is that Chinese are laughing how hypocritical our government is though. You are one of those individuals that are ultimately responsible for the present collective mess-up that our government became. | |
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| | Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX |
to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. I guess you could call him a little bit of both. Before i knew about the leak, I thought it was a strange coincidence how the president was going to have a meeting with Xi Jinping and how he was going to bring up all the hacking that China has been inflicting in the united states. Making the U.S look (and actually be) highly hypocritical because they are just as bad if not worse. But really, who cares? in the end what matters is what they are actually DOING, not who said what. And even more interesting. the fact that they didn't have to break any laws to do what they do! But we should hardly be surprised that this was the case. it has long been the case that laws are made with out any regard of the people it's supposed to protect. (MPAA and RIAA having their way at every turn is a perfect example of this, they might be douchebags, but as long as it's legal it's OK right?) | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J
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KrK to FFH5
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 9:32 pm
to FFH5
We need more Traitors like him, then.
Unless you want the USA to fall into Tyranny and oppression.
... of course, some people don't mind Tyranny and oppression, as long as it is THEIR kind of tyranny and oppression. As in, it lines up with their political/regligious/financial ideology. | |
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to FFH5
I think he's a patriot | |
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·RCN
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by workablob:Based upon what I know.
The NSA needed a good bitch slap.
Blob
He appears to be more of a traitor working for the Chinese than a patriot. What has he gained for you to say stuff like that? People don't just run to a foreign government without nothing to gain. I saw his interview and my god is he the number one world actor if he was lying. He should be a Hollywood star because that lying was grade A+ material if that was lying. Bottom line it looks like a guy couldn't sleep well at night knowing the NSA was shitting on your privacy. Didn't know standing up for the people and the constitution was considered being a traitor. Must have been asleep when that definition changed. | |
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The focus should be on NSA, not the whistleblowerThis guy isn't the first whistleblower of NSA, just the one getting most attention... » news.yahoo.com/other-nsa ··· 475.htmlThe NSA is apparently collecting usage data on everyone and using Big Data principals, this is the issue. May be hard to prove specific misuse that violate several Amendments by monitoring Americans but they have apparently set the stage to make it very easy to do so and this guy has pointed out it's easy to do. So easy that it highly likely is misused. The NSA have been given a free pass to collect data of personal calls/internet without a warrant and use the data w/out checks and balances of external auditors. This is the issue. But given the over-the-top fear many Americans have over terrorism and simultaneous love for guns, it will probably continue - even though we have far more domestic gun deaths than terrorism deaths over last 15 years. | |
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 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3 |
StuartMW
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 10:24 am
True...said by Karl Bode:Some 46 percent said they did not know, not uncommon given how little most in the public actually understand about what's going on. And that's the big problem IMO. Those 46% are probably too busy tweeting or posting to Facebook on their Smartphone to know what's going on or to even care. What I find interesting is that many want to believe the statements of Congresscritters or high-level officials in the security services (including the NSA). Does anyone really believe that these people actually know what is being done? They claim there are all sorts of safeguards etc. How do they know for sure? Are they IT experts? Do they have SysAdmin access? Of course not. They only know what they've been told by underlings who I'm sure have "sanitized" the real truth. As for Edward Snowden my view is that we'll have to wait and see. If he defects to China, Russia or other enemy country then his motives can be rightly questioned. BTW according to Snowden he was a SysAdmin. Now readers here (vs the idiotic media) should understand that SysAdmin's have almost full access to everything. That's their job. Whether he could legally access data is another matter. In the end it all comes down to trust. Do you believe Congresscritters and other officials or a self-proclaimed Sysadmin who claims to have had complete access? Now personally I don't trust politicians but Snowden's credibility is not yet established in my mind. | |
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 ARGONAUTHave a nice day.
Premium Member
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN
kudos:1 |
ARGONAUT
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 10:30 am
What debate?Don't let the puppet masters pull your strings.
Snowden gained nothing with the leak. It's the American people who gained a little knowledge. The knowledge that being born an American means you're automatically put on a terrorist watch list. | |
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LeakerWhat a waste of a career. Most people knew about this already. He just trashed away his life. | |
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He became a traitor when he decided to disclosedetails about the NSA's cyber activities against the PRC.
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
Whatever sympathy I may have had for him vanished when he decided to disclose details of a program that had zero impact on American citizens. A program that was aimed at a country that has been engaged in cyber warfare against the United States for decades. A country that is busy building up a war machine in an attempt to drive us out of the Western Pacific and intimidate our Allies in the region.
This kid deserves to spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement at ADX Florence, which is exactly what will happen to him if the Feds manage to get custody of him. | |
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The question I would like to see poled is...Should bureaucrats that LIE under oath to Congress, hold themselves above the law, violate the constitutional rights of millions of Americans, violate their oath of office, be required to spend at LEAST the minimum time in prison that are in the federal sentencing guidlines before there is ever THOUGHT of pardon or parole? If the answer is yes, we won't be hearing from dear Mr. Clapper for a few million years.
Clap, oh clap oh clap, they call him the Clapper.... Clap...clap...clap...YOU KNOW what he's after. | |
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| meeeeeeeeee |
I'm very pleasedThat even the knuckle-draggers where I live can see the seriousness of this situation and how very WRONG the United States Government has become. | |
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 JohnInSJ
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA |
JohnInSJ
Premium Member
2013-Jun-13 3:13 pm
yeah butmore than 1 in three believe McDonalds is actually Food. So, um, Americans... not always so smart.
What's laughable here is how CONGRESS (who knows exactly what is going on) is SHOCKED and OUTRAGED... Yeah. | |
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He is a HERO and a PATRIOT!No one with well placed COJONES would expose the criminality of the Obama administration like this guy did, telling everybody that they are spied by the US government. The haters can say anything they want, but they are still spied on.
Yes! Attack the guy and keep quiet about his message; that is how the ruling oligarchy controls the unwashed, ignorant masses. | |
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Re: He is a HERO and a PATRIOT!said by SilentMan:No one with well placed COJONES would expose the criminality of the Obama administration like this guy did, telling everybody that they are spied by the US government. The haters can say anything they want, but they are still spied on.
Yes! Attack the guy and keep quiet about his message; that is how the ruling oligarchy controls the unwashed, ignorant masses.
I agree 100% Blob | |
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Re: Make it so # 2It's always been a partisan battle ground. It's okay when their guy does it, not okay the other way around. | |
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Patriot?Patriot to potentially cause security vulnerabilities?
More like why was a entity outside the government involved at all? | |
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Re: Patriot?said by FastiBook:More like why was a entity outside the government involved at all?
Because these spooks at NSA have accrued such a voluminous quantity of data on everyone that it takes hiring an out-sourced army of temps in order to sift through it all. | |
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 ·ooma
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
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brand xfor many who have been in the loop these last dozen years about what the government is doing will not have any surprises on what's going on even if it isn't publicized news. much of this information was coming to you from wikileaks anyway, if you bothered to pay attention and utilized the alternative sources once the government started blocking wikileaks. these times are worthy of a new documentary.. how we got to clockwork orange and 1984 in 2013.
it is unlikely a significant attack will be prevented in the future as it is more prophetic than anything.. once foreign energy is taken out of the picture as important to the US economy, our security picture can then focus on the real terrorists.. the domestic energy cartel. | |
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Pay meGive me $122,000 a year and I will keep it a secret : x | |
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