 silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA |
silbaco
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 10:26 am
US BroadbandHonestly, things are improving. Small telcos continue to deploy fiber, larger telcos (Fairpoint/Frontier) continue to roll out DSL to people who previously never had it, cable companies continue to roll out DOCSIS 3 which solves many speed and congestion issue, and WISPs continue to roll out wireless service to underserved areas with speeds comparable to wired services.
Service may still be poor for those in Verizon/At&t/Windstream DSL areas and areas where only satellite is available, but that doesn't mean it is poor everywhere. And an increasing amount of those areas may have a WISP alternative and don't even know it. | |
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DataRiker
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 10:35 am
Re: US BroadbandIts only improving because it was so terrible. I am a very insignificant exception as I have access to Google fiber 1,000 mbit/s for 70 dollars (almost double the price of South Korea; Seoul and Pusan it runs about 45 USD ).
Prices are absolutely ridiculous, service is generally terrible, and the labor the drives the industry woefully under-trained and underpaid. | |
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| |  tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:7 |
tshirt
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 10:45 am
Re: US BroadbandExplain how they are supposed to pay more, train more invest more, and charge less. | |
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1 edit |
Telco
Member
2013-Jul-11 11:02 am
Re: US BroadbandQuite easy to do actually and is what they do in every other advanced country.
That is, instead of the shareholders 'receiving' (i.e. not earning) $2 Billion in profit, they keep $1.9 billion and use the mere $0.1 billion to pay the actual workers a livable wage; something that also used to be the norm in 'Amurika' too prior to the Reagan days.
Coincidentally, also a time period when we lead the advanced world in everything and we were not ranked close to dead last; as we are now in this post 80's -- zero investment in America (but defense) -- failed Reaganomics years. | |
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| | | | silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA |
silbaco
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 11:21 am
Re: US BroadbandAnd many other advanced countries pay significant subsidies to their ISPs, far greater than we do. Or they simply pay for the deployment of fiber. | |
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Re: US BroadbandReally? Show me the facts please. | |
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Re: US Broadbandsaid by Skippy25:Really? Show me the facts please.
The Netherlands, Kuwait, Andorra, Australia, China, Israel, Uruguay, etc. Plenty of examples if you've been paying attention to worldwide trends. It's sometimes hard to tell, because it's not always subsidized directly by the government. Sometimes, the telco or the electricity company that's doing the fiber build-out is owned by the government. To the extent that profits decrease because of the fiber build-out, that constitutes an indirect subsidy from the government. | |
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Re: US BroadbandOh you mean like the subsidies what we hand out to our incumbents in "tax incentives and other perks" that equal into the billions every year? | |
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| | | | | | | | silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA |
silbaco
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 5:49 pm
Re: US BroadbandIt's not near as much as you seem to think it is. | |
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Re: US Broadbandsaid by silbaco:It's not near as much as you seem to think it is.
You think the multiple billions in USF subsidies handed out every year is not much? | |
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| | | | | | | | sonicmerlin |
to tanzam75
said by tanzam75:said by Skippy25:Really? Show me the facts please.
The Netherlands, Kuwait, Andorra, Australia, China, Israel, Uruguay, etc. Plenty of examples if you've been paying attention to worldwide trends. It's sometimes hard to tell, because it's not always subsidized directly by the government. Sometimes, the telco or the electricity company that's doing the fiber build-out is owned by the government. To the extent that profits decrease because of the fiber build-out, that constitutes an indirect subsidy from the government. He said facts. All you did was list a bunch of countries. | |
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Re: US Broadbandsaid by sonicmerlin:He said facts. All you did was list a bunch of countries.
A bunch of countries that have government-funded or government-subsidized FTTP builds currently underway. And that's a fact. | |
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| | | | |  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO |
to silbaco
and this is an issue?
seems smart to me image if we never invisted in the interstate highway system... or power gird... or phone..
it would looks a lot like what internet looks like now
but no we had to give to the banks... | |
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| | | | | | tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:7  ·Xfinity
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tshirt
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 1:55 pm
Re: US Broadbandsaid by elios:and this is an issue?
seems smart to me image if we never invisted in the interstate highway system... or power gird... or phone..
it would looks a lot like what internet looks like now
but no we had to give to the banks...
The internet would not exist as we know it if their hadn't been gov't investment and the TARP money has been returned, so we can invest SOME of it in broadband, and highways and clean water and air, and energy and... a zillion other things that need doing. The truth is we aren't over taxed, we are under-collected. The US could drop the federal tax rate to a flat 18-21% on EVERYBODY with ONLY one deduction of $20k per person (ie family of four gets the first $80k free and the same rate as bill gates on everything else) and still be the investment beacon for the entire world and ACTUALLY pay for every program we have and more IN REAL TIME. It wouldn't be instant, and it wouldn't always be pretty when each person lost THEIR treasured/favorite deduction. And some things (including more broadband) might be on hold for quite a while. | |
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| | | | | | | elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO |
elios
Member
2013-Jul-11 2:00 pm
Re: US Broadbandflat tax rates only help the rich so for get that
how about tax any one who makes more then 500k a year at 50%
and 10% less every 100k under that to 100k at 10% and if you make under 50k 1% and under 25k you dont pay any thing NO DEDUCTIONS FOR ANY ONE
done
mean wile how about we just kick ATT and VZN out and do the job right
Utopia had the right idea last mile dumb pipe that any ISP could sell service on
gov't fund it to get it built then sell it off to a local Co-op so its owned by the people that use it | |
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| | | | | | | | tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:7 ·Xfinity
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tshirt
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 2:30 pm
Re: US Broadbandsaid by elios:flat tax rates only help the rich so for get that
how about tax any one who makes more then 500k a year at 50%
and 10% less every 100k under that to 100k at 10% and if you make under 50k 1% and under 25k you dont pay any thing NO DEDUCTIONS FOR ANY ONE
We tried extreme graduated tax rates in the last century and struggled with low investment in regions like the south and extreme poverty in some areas, it also disincentive innovation and expanding markets. More equalized taxation give everyone "skin in the game" and a reason to excel. the single deduction keeps most people at the bottom from paying tax that then has to be returned in support programs. said by elios:mean wile how about we just kick ATT and VZN out and do the job right
Utopia had the right idea last mile dumb pipe that any ISP could sell service on
gov't fund it to get it built then sell it off to a local Co-op so its owned by the people that use it
So if we're going to start seizing things for the "peoples" use how about if we start with YOUR stuff, surely you won't mind. It's awfully easy to spend other peoples money. | |
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| | | | | | | | openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
Springfield, VA
kudos:2 |
to elios
said by elios:NO DEDUCTIONS FOR ANY ONE No. Talk about failure. How do you account for the cost of living disparities across the country? said by elios:mean wile how about we just kick ATT and VZN out and do the job right We could always go back to a heavily regulated monopoly communications company and get our infrastructure back to the best in the world too, but we don't want to pay for that. | |
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| | | | | | |  The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2 |
to tshirt
I want to agree with you, but I can't. You are assuming in your premise that the government will use that money wisely. Last I checked, we spend over 600 billion on military expenses alone. I highly doubt that changing the tax system will all of a sudden fix all of our problems.
There needs to a balance. I don't necessarily advocate for government intervention in this industry anymore, simply because I see how irresponsible our government tends to be. I'd rather see competition encouraged rather than regulating these carriers as utilities. A simple example is the nuclear industry. Power is still very expensive, but you don't see anyone bitching about the bill every month. I know it's a finite resource, and in some ways is unfair to compare to broadband, but some of the same principles still apply.
I think I'm actually agreeing with you, thinking about it now. | |
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| | | | | | | | tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:7 ·Xfinity
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tshirt
Premium Member
2013-Jul-12 11:02 am
Re: US Broadbandsaid by The Limit: You are assuming in your premise that the government will use that money wisely. Last I checked, we spend over 600 billion on military expenses alone. I highly doubt that changing the tax system will all of a sudden fix all of our problems.
I agree that we will need to set/change some priorities. But for at least 50years, the congress has wasted time with a back and forth as to which priorities and done little towards fully funding what we already spend. So I propose that we fully fund what we spend FIRST and then decide what to cut. When everyone pays an equal percentage adding and cutting has a much more personal and direct effect, and MAY provoke a little more participation in the process. | |
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to Telco
The really big difference is that until the 80's Everybody saved what they could, didn't run out a spend months or years of income on every "toy" at Wal-Mart, and those that invested well, and worked a few more hours, or took a class or 2 to improve their job skills. Now it's buy the fanciest phone, the biggist tv, the shiniest wheels even before you earn the cash.
You CAN survive without a lot of that crap and even, a little less broadband and invest those dollars in Comcast or xXXcorp and then YOU would be the one getting a couple percent more in dividends.
YOU can invest in America...the rest of the world does.
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en103
Member
2013-Jul-11 1:45 pm
Re: US BroadbandI agree... this is the result of the 'I want it now' syndrom vs. I 'need' it. This, along with the fact that the vast majority of it is all made in another country for pennies on the dollar doesn't help. Most of America is investing (or has been) in countries overseas. | |
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ccemployee to Telco
Anon
2013-Jul-11 3:37 pm
to Telco
30k a year is not liveable anymore. | |
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| | | | | The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2 |
Re: US BroadbandDepending on where you live, it is. The problem is people don't know how to live below their means. That pay rate is certainly enough for where I live. It's called living below your means, and spending your money on frivolous and non-essential items. | |
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to DataRiker
Why are you comparing pricing to South Korea rather then say Argentina or Italy? Is it because South Korea is typical and representative of global broadband connections? | |
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| | | Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX |
Kamus
Member
2013-Jul-11 2:34 pm
Re: US Broadbandsaid by PaulHikeS2:Why are you comparing pricing to South Korea rather then say Argentina or Italy? Is it because South Korea is typical and representative of global broadband connections?
So Italy and Argentina are as wealthy as the United States now? As it stands, the U.S. is still the wealthiest country in the planet. | |
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to PaulHikeS2
said by PaulHikeS2:Why are you comparing pricing to South Korea rather then say Argentina or Italy? Is it because South Korea is typical and representative of global broadband connections?
I'm using them because they have a good model. The US should take notes. People incorrectly state the population density argument, yet I lived in a small farm village (Joam) and I got fast Cable hookup the was included in my apartment rent ( The bill was only 20 or so bucks per month, I looked into it) | |
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| |  Snowy
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6 ·Hawaiian Telcom
 ·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable
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to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:Its only improving because it was so terrible. I am a very insignificant exception as I have access to Google fiber 1,000 mbit/s for 70 dollars (almost double the price of South Korea; Seoul and Pusan it runs about 45 USD ).
Prices are absolutely ridiculous, service is generally terrible, and the labor the drives the industry woefully under-trained and underpaid.
Not that I am disagreeing about the gap between Cohen's reality & reality but let's put some context into that. According to the World Bank (2012) South Korea's ranked 28th GDP (PPP) per capita is Int$ 30,722 per capita while the US is ranked 7th @ Int$ 49,965 » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li ··· r_capitaSo it's not really double in real terms. just saying...  | |
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Re: US BroadbandPer Capita GDP translates poorly into anything useful, especially the price for technology.
For example, the GDP in many African nations is atrocious yet internet prices are higher than they are in the US.
Also I've found most other goods and services in Korea have similar prices to the US.
Further bucking the per capita GDP statistic, I've found the standard of living in SK to be a bit better than the US ( Health care, transportation, and education are great, and violent crime is very low )
If I didn't have family engagements here I would definitely be living there or possibly Vietnam or Japan. | |
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| | | | Snowy
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6 ·Hawaiian Telcom
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable
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Snowy
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 9:31 pm
Re: US Broadbandsaid by DataRiker:Per Capita GDP translates poorly into anything useful, especially the price for technology. I wouldn't argue that point, it's an extremely subjective measurement. said by DataRiker:If I didn't have family engagements here I would definitely be living there or possibly Vietnam or Japan.
Small world. 2 of my siblings have done just that (Japan, Vietnam) & although I'm told the cultural shock can be a formidable challenge their both happy & thriving, one for 20+yrs already. | |
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| | | | | openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
Springfield, VA
kudos:2 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2013-Jul-12 2:55 am
Re: US BroadbandWhat about the cost of living? Living in Japan isn't cheap. I guess we get what we pay for with tradeoffs. Lower cost access to the Internet versus higher prices for many other things. To each their own. | |
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Re: US Broadbandsaid by openbox9:What about the cost of living? Living in Japan isn't cheap. I guess we get what we pay for with tradeoffs. Lower cost access to the Internet versus higher prices for many other things. To each their own.
Unless you wan't to buy property, the cost of living is about the same. America has lots of cheap property/land. The reason much of east Asia has excellent internet, public transportation, and healthcare is the communal nature of their societies. Its well outside the scope of this thread and would be hard to understand without living there. I can tell you with out any doubt the standard of living in SK and Japan is definitely higher than in the US. | |
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to silbaco
Actually, they are poor almost everywhere, especially when you consider that most markets only have 1 choice (or less) for a potential 50+mb service. | |
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| | silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA |
silbaco
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 5:51 pm
Re: US BroadbandMost people don't want 50Mbps, so that isn't a focus for telcos. They want the cheapest or the speed that comes in a bundle. | |
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| davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3 |
to silbaco
I sure hope those WISPs get some of that White Space technology going. Many rural areas could use some competition to satellite and convoluted expensive cellular products. | |
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tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:7
1 edit |
tshirt
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 10:37 am
He premature in saying we are there......well on the way and accelerating...A least at comcast and some other companies while a few keep dragging their feet. | |
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USA USA Number 8 baby!We rock ! Only in business vernacular is coming in 8th place something to howl about. | |
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jrose78
Member
2013-Jul-11 11:41 am
One choiceTo me this is simple. I live in a dense state and have one choice for internet. In the us I think we are about the market and competition so let me rate that as a fail. Is there really anything else to be said? | |
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US Ranks 17th in Education and 14th in Infrastructure» www.huffingtonpost.com/2 ··· 795.html» www.huffingtonpost.com/2 ··· 732.htmlLet's get our priorities straight. Broadband adoption is not about having the worlds fastest Internet pipe that no application can come close to using. Broadband adoption is about having a quality experience getting at a wealth of information and education for the poor. Having the average US broadband speed of 18Mbps (fine for all and multiple Internet apps). And showing even faster speeds in state geographies. I think the government should be spending more time on more important US Rankings vs the the one that only a few entitled whiners complain about. | |
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|  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT |
Simba7
Member
2013-Jul-11 1:26 pm
Re: US Ranks 17th in Education and 14th in Infrastructuresaid by devnuller:Having the average US broadband speed of 18Mbps (fine for all and multiple Internet apps). And showing even faster speeds in state geographies. I think the government should be spending more time on more important US Rankings vs the the one that only a few entitled whiners complain about. The issue is that average. That's including several cities that can get =>100mbps (and some >=1gbps), which skews the average. ..then you have people stuck on dialup, DSL, or satellite. They are usually in towns in the country that are not "profitable enough" for an actual buildout, so they do the bare minimum and that's "good enough". I still think we should utilize all that unused fiber and actually connect these towns, and bring in a few local WISPs into the mix for those way out there. Maybe WV could donate a few hundred spare routers for the cause. | |
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| elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA |
to devnuller
The majority of children in this country are forced to attend public schools - a government monopoly. Its a wonder we even rank 14th. | |
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josephf
Member
2013-Jul-11 12:48 pm
LTE is the Golden EggLTE is deployed wirelessly with a significantly reduced cost compared to laying fiber to residences. And it provides high speeds comparable to wiring. | |
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The way forward is simpleThe way for the US to truly achieve broadand supremacy is to more wisely utilize the USF. The USF should only go towards providing wired service to homes that currently have no wired service until 99 percent of the country is covered. Then when that milestone is achieved, the USF can be used to either provide FTTH anywhere or wireless service to the 1 percent who are so isolated and remote, for instance on an island or the top of a mountain, that wired is completely impractical. | |
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| silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA |
silbaco
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 5:55 pm
Re: The way forward is simpleBut that produces a lot of wasted money. If you are going to invest in infrastructure to get broadband out to the rural areas, you might as well run fiber the first time and be done with it. Otherwise it will still have to be done later, and in the mean time users will have poorer service and the telcos will have to pay higher maintenance costs. | |
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 syslock
Premium Member
join:2007-02-03
La La Land |
syslock
Premium Member
2013-Jul-11 5:52 pm
They are dreaming.Drive 35 min West of Ann Arbor and your options are dial up
or cell phone hot spot for the home. Thats it. TV... OTA or some kind of dish
is needed. So incredibly awesome Comcast. | |
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AnonMe
Anon
2013-Jul-11 7:06 pm
No price increases?And Cohen is still claiming no price increases in their broadband Internet access in 11 years, even though speeds have increased. That is just a flat out LIE!!
11 years ago, if you ordered Comcast's Internet service, it was a lot cheaper than it is today. There have been price increases. And more sleazily, in many cases they have not raised the price of the service, only the REQUIRED fees to have the service. Those are also called price increases, even for the uneducated.
I guess he thinks if he says it enough times, maybe people will actually believe it as truth.
Or, maybe since he doesn't actually have to pay his own Comcast bill, he has no idea of what the company is actually doing... | |
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 IowaCowboyIowa native
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1 |
I like city waterThere are many advantages to living in the city; such as reliable clean drinking water, city sewer (no septic tank to worry about), natural gas, quick fire/police/EMS response times and best of all, access to broadband.
I guess if you want broadband, I guess you'll just have to live in an urban/city area just like if you like the luxury of city water and sewer.
Another plus of living in the city is everything is within a short drive, especially with high gas prices. | |
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Re: I like city waterI don't ever foresee myself in a city setting. Wife and I moved out into the country in early 2011, and the main drawback was the lack of reliable broadband. After about a year of talks with all of the normal east coast providers, Comcast decided the ROI was worth it, and about 2 weeks ago we went live. Best of both worlds now. | |
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to IowaCowboy
You do realize that many rural areas have broadband access, right? Just because you're rural doesn't mean your remote. You make it sound like if you don't live in immediate downtown area you have no cable or DSL access, which as most things you tend to post, couldn't be farther from the truth.
Judging from you posts about your area, you couldn't pay me enough to live there. I prefer to live in an area where I don't feel like I need an alarm system to give myself a dales sense of security. | |
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 linicxCaveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State
 ·DIRECTV
·TracFone Wireless
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linicx
Premium Member
2013-Jul-12 1:17 pm
Gee Whiz..Mr. Cohen needs to come where I live. He can buy 15/5 for about $200 to install the modem and hook up the VOIP phone. Then he can pay another $200+ a month for limited washed out cable. But the connections will be stable and the phone will be wonderful until the system drops off line or the power fails. If he wants Comcast he can move 50 miles, too.
Cohen is like all the others in DC; they live on a different planet than I do. | |
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