 patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| astroturf Mobile WiMAX won't evolve. Clearwire hasn't converted a single fixed wimax market to mobile except for oregon area.
And why would DSL customers switch to same speed or slower wimax, which has more caps and throttling than DSL?
That 2-3 ghz spectrum that wimax lives in will be crap in dealing with mountains, and what carrier is going to put up 10s of towers per county to cover all the valleys and hills? | |
|  | | | | 
jeffhambone
Peace, through superior firepower
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
 ·Comcast
| Re: astroturf said by TKJunkMail  : The problem is that Wimax has the greatest benefit in areas where DSL has the hardest problem reaching(rural areas). But the greatest return for the companies rolling out Wimax will be in more densely populated areas. So logically, Wimax won't be rolled out to those needing it most but to the areas that can make the greatest return on the investment. It will just be another option for areas that already have 3 or 4 options for broadband. I agree. I see WiMax as a solution for those of us living in FiOS/DSL "Dead Zones" -- areas with reasonably high population density, but not dense enough to make FiOS economically feasible nor lucrative enough to justify a new or upgraded DSL infrastructure (assuming anyone's even trying to do that these days). If I could ditch Comcast for something faster than dialup, even if it's not as fast as Comcast, I'd be gone in a NY minute.
--
Son, there's only one thing you need to know: HEMI | |
| | | | | ncbill
Premium
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC
| Re: astroturf here it's only
1.5Mbps - $30/month
2 Mbps - $45/month
said by iansltx speeds up to 6/1...for $40 per month
[/BQUOTE : | |
| | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Re: astroturf That's because you're using ClearWire (vs. Clear) with pre-WiMAX great, which is crap. | |
| | 
bb101
@comcast.net | If you call covering 120 million pops covered by clearwire not evolving then i question your evolutionary education. | |
| dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
 ·Covad Communications
1 edit | wireless is a tricky thing to implement I believe this number to be a little high since wireless is not the magical cure for broadband access in this country. As the cell providers have shown, 3G (and 4G will not be any better) can be a painful experience for end users. There are just too many variables (distance from tower, weather, electrical disruptions, etc) for it to work 100% of the time. I live in the nation's capital and Clear/Xohm still can't their WiMax network to work everywhere in the city. So why would anyone expect the cell companies to devote significant resources so that Farmer Ted that lives 200 miles from a metropolitan area (in a valley or near mountains) to get WiMax access?
Unless something has changed, this report ignores simple business practices.
The only cure for broadband is laying fiber to houses directly. And I do believe that the end user should foot the bill if they choose to live in an area not dense in population.
I don't want to subsidize (by higher rates) a build-out of WiMax (or any other wireless or wired technology) so that Farmer Ted can surf porn faster.
Edit:
Fine, Farmer Ted deserves faster access to porn. But he should not expect the same price for that faster access since it costs more to provide to him. Bring him WiMax. But charge him higher rates since it costs more to provide it to him than say Bill the City Dweller. | |
| | 
Vertickle
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement Why should you be the only one able to "surf porn faster?" | |
| |
Farmer Ted
@comcast.net
1 edit | said by dcdeadbeat :I don't want to subsidize (by higher rates) a build-out of WiMax (or any other wireless or wired technology) so that Farmer Ted can surf porn faster. Do you realize that Farmer Ted grows the food you shove in your face several times a day? You think your food is grown in a McWarehouse?
Do you realize that Farmer Ted has been subsidizing the urban geniuses that are running the American car, insurance, stock and banking corporations? | |
| | | 
Shack
join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement thanks Farmer Ted! | |
| | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
1 edit | said by Farmer Ted :said by dcdeadbeat :I don't want to subsidize (by higher rates) a build-out of WiMax (or any other wireless or wired technology) so that Farmer Ted can surf porn faster. Do you realize that Farmer Ted grows the food you shove in your phat phuckin' face several times a day? You think your food is grown in a McWarehouse? Do you realize that Farmer Ted has been subsidizing the urban geniuses that are running the American car, insurance, stock and banking corporations? Not true. Most of the food in this country comes from Mexico and other countries. Many farmers in this country are paid subsidies to not grow crops.
I don't want to get into a debate about living in a city versus living on a farm (or a farm that does not produce anything). My point was that everyone chooses where they live. If you choose to live a sparse area, you choose to give up some of the amenities of city life, just like city dwellers have a higher cost of living and give up space and privacy for additional amenities. | |
| | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement I got news for you but most of our food is from here at home in the United States. We EXPORT crops to Mexico and other countries to get what we need that we can't grow or do not have enough of.
the US Gov't does NOT pay farmers to keep them from growing crops. Where do you think all that corn is coming from to make E-85? They're not importing it. Where do you think that fancy corn-sugar comes from? corn grown right here in the USA.
I think you should live on a farm or even at least near a farm to learn how it works. I grew up on a farm and I can tell you, that you'd be in for a BIG surprise. | |
| | | | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
1 edit | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement said by hottboiinnc :I got news for you but most of our food is from here at home in the United States. We EXPORT crops to Mexico and other countries to get what we need that we can't grow or do not have enough of. the US Gov't does NOT pay farmers to keep them from growing crops. Where do you think all that corn is coming from to make E-85? They're not importing it. Where do you think that fancy corn-sugar comes from? corn grown right here in the USA. I think you should live on a farm or even at least near a farm to learn how it works. I grew up on a farm and I can tell you, that you'd be in for a BIG surprise. My family actually owns a farm (owned it and operated it since the HomeStead Act), and guess what...the farm gets paid to not produce crops on the land. It's very common.
And you are incorrect about the majority of our food being from the United States. Please do your homework before posting.
Now can people stop attacking me personally. This was not about farmers (I think farming is a fine profession). However, I don't think that broadband access by way of DSL subsidies or WiMax build-outs should be subsidized for those that CHOOSE TO LIVE IN SPARSE POPULATIONS REGARDLESS OF THEIR PROFESSION.
And I actually have a friend named Ted that farms. And yes subsidies currently provide him with broadband. In my opinion (and that of many city dwellers) he should pay for his own broadband because as he will state "I CHOOSE TO LIVE OUTSIDE A CITY." | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
1 edit | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement No farmers do not get paid to not grow crops. It sounds like your family is one that abuses the system. Which allows them to make a claim that they lost their crops in what ever way they feel like claiming and get paid. But you should know that since you claim your family owned and operated a farm. You would also know the USDA has been cracking down on those claims and suing to get their money back.
But also, if what you claim is true then why are the fields not sitting empty and growing grass/weeds? HMMMM... Because its not true!
And the keyword for your families farm is "ownED and operatED" you used ED which means DID own and DID operate at SOME Point. Not currently.
I know many farmers that produce crops. One of them grows popcorn for several large companies. They even grow other items as well.
Where do you think your tomatoes come from? They don't come from Mexico. They come the USA, generally out west.
And nobody is attacking you, you're comments just don't add up and they're not true. The USDA only pays those farmers money when they lose their corps, NOT to STOP growing.
»www.poltersberryfarm.com/index.html
»www.underwoodfamilyfarms.com/
»www.jonesfamilyfarms.com/ | |
| | | | | | | bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement I thought the tomaters were from Florida. A few years ago they had crop fail in Florida and tome-maters were hard to find. | |
| | | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement Tomaters are grown in Ohio, CA and in FL.
Most of them are in CA. Heinz used to have all their tomatoes grown to where they processed them at the time which later changed to using on CA grown tomatoes.
The city i'm from was hit hard when they decided to do this and transport them all the way across the country. | |
| | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement You sure do seem to be an expert on a lot of subjects, no matter what they are.
However, I'm going to say this strong as I can,... if you don't think farmers are paid to NOT farm, then you're 1 of the senses LESS than Hellen Keller. It is NO secret that the government pays farmers to not farm... is it all the time? No.. is it all farmers? No.. it depends on the item produced, the economic times, etc. It's done to protect the farmer, for one, and also protect the price of the commodity on the global market.
You also don't know anything about farming, based on your posts either. While this country produces a large amount of ag product, we also sell a lot of that. Mexico is a place we GET a lot from too.. go into your store.. pick up a tomato and look for the "product of Mexico" sticker on it..
You sit on this board and crank out these messages like you're a guru of life and have all the answers when in fact you're wrong so much of the time. When you google your answers, if you do, are you looking at reputable sites? and, do you even understand what they say? When it comes to things like the ag industry, there is NO way you're going to get a lesson or even a proper understanding on how that system works in the few short minutes you spend, if you do, looking for an answer. The system if MUCH too complicated and changes regularly.
And, as DCD.beat said.. broadband is really not required on the farm.. farmers don't point and click to make things grow. Farmers have been growing crops for centuries with out the internet and to be honest, nothing much has changed. The science of farming has changed some, but the basics remain the same.
The best tool a farmer has, out side of the actual farming itself, is still a telephone. A farmer is much happier with GPS on the machines for positioning when setting up fields rather than a 1.5mb DSL line or WiMax. And, to be honest, we've been using GPS on earth movers since long before anyone hear of Garmin or Tom Tom.
Just like the tacking on a gun rights law into the credit card bill of rights legislation, or saying "its about the children" BS that everyone uses, this "it's about the farmers who need broadband" is just an excuse to push another subsidy through to the poor people that chose to live a country life style.
I'll also throw this back in anyone's face. For YEARS, in Northern Minnesota, the people have been angry and furious that they have to pay into State taxes which go to build roads in the Twin Cities.. they say "it's not fair, we'll never use those roads".. well, the same goes in turn for the people living in the cities. You think they really care to subsidize the lifestyle of those that chose to lose way out in the stix? It's a road traveled both ways. However, roads are required.. broadband, or faster broadband, is not... it's not something that i believe that the people outside the benefit area should be burdened with.
I grew up in the country, worked on the family farm, and to this day still miss that kind of life. But, to be honest, I made a choice to live where I could advance myself, have a better shot and making it bigger, and moved to an area that supports that kind of desire. I made a choice. AND, just like the recent house purchase we just did, BEFORE taking that house, we checked for the services we needed to be available to it.. I can tell you that about 5 of 20 homes looked at were passed up becuase they did not have BOTH cable and DSL available to it.. WOW!! I made a choice! Novel concept.
Yes, I covered a lot in this message, but it needed to be said. You don't know everything you say or think you do.. further, you argue with people, many in return, that tell you you're wrong and the answers are there in front of you to find should you chose.. | |
| | | | | | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
1 edit | hotboiinnc: stop attacking me personally. My family owns a farm, still runs the farm, but is paid subsidies under a federal program that pays money out unless the land is developed (in other words, whether or not anything is farmed). And guess what...THE FAMILY DOES NOT EXPECT NOR REQUIRE BROADBAND TO BE BUILT-OUT TO THE FARM.
For those that actually believe that all of your food comes from the United States, you should really look at the label in the store. Many states now have laws that require labels to indicate origin source for produce, meat, etc.
But stop attacking me personally people. I do my homework before posting. This is a place for discussion about Wimax and broadband, not farmer subsidies or origin of food.
So back to the WiMax discussion.
In my opinion, many of the telco companies will not build-out WiMax as a replacement of DSL. These companies are for-profit companies and must concentrate their build-out on areas that will return a profit for their investors. DSL, while not a perfect technology..will have to be the best that many can expect, unless they are willing to move to areas that Wimax or other broadband options are available. | |
| | | | | | | kem09030
join:2004-11-29
Rushville, IL
| said by hottboiinnc :No farmers do not get paid to not grow crops. I think he is referring to the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP). You get paid to not grow anything on the land to preserve the environmental quality in the area and to a certain extent keep commodity prices up.
»www.nrcs.usda.gov/programs/crp/ | |
| | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement ... but mostly to keep the prices up. | |
| | | | | | 
MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
 ·Skype
·magicjack.com
| said by dcdeadbeat :And you are incorrect about the majority of our food being from the United States. Please do your homework before posting I'd like to see proof of this, because I just don't see it. Easily 80% of the food in my cabinets and refrigerator are still made/grown in the US. Most of the exceptions are things that are tropical, exotic/specialty or labor intensive like bananas, rice, and imported cheese. This area alone still produces and processes massive amounts of corn, hogs, poultry, melons, sweet potatoes etc. etc. Perishable items like bread and milk HAVE to be made within a reasonable distance, and are.
I support rural broadband for the same reason I support rural roads and highways and utilities: it promotes commerce and prosperity. They allow the farmer to produce more efficiently. Telling everyone to move into the city is oversimplified and problematic. Professional farmers aren't going to be able to find much work in the city. It would decimate one of the few industries we still have in this country. Concentrating the population more than it already is makes us more vulnerable than we already are to crime, disease, attack, food shortages etc. And on and on.
--
The law of supply and demand: The fewer people controlling the supply, the more they can demand | |
| | | | | | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement said by MrMoody :said by dcdeadbeat :And you are incorrect about the majority of our food being from the United States. Please do your homework before posting I'd like to see proof of this, because I just don't see it. Easily 80% of the food in my cabinets and refrigerator are still made/grown in the US. Most of the exceptions are things that are tropical, exotic/specialty or labor intensive like bananas, rice, and imported cheese. This area alone still produces and processes massive amounts of corn, hogs, poultry, melons, sweet potatoes etc. etc. Perishable items like bread and milk HAVE to be made within a reasonable distance, and are. I support rural broadband for the same reason I support rural roads and highways and utilities: it promotes commerce and prosperity. They allow the farmer to produce more efficiently. Telling everyone to move into the city is oversimplified and problematic. Professional farmers aren't going to be able to find much work in the city. It would decimate one of the few industries we still have in this country. Concentrating the population more than it already is makes us more vulnerable than we already are to crime, disease, attack, food shortages etc. And on and on. Want proof? Go to the grocery store and look at the labels.
As far as rural broadband, why should companies subsidize people that choose to live in rural areas? The answer is that they should not have to subsidize anyone (regardless of where you live).
Prices and WiMax availability should be based upon how much someone is willing to pay for the technology. If you live in a rural area and it costs a lot to bring you WiMax and you don't want to pay that, then THIS IS YOUR CHOICE....just like it is my choice to live where this stuff is available and less expensive to provide.
There is no universal right to broadband (Wimax, DSL, or otherwise) in this country. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| More of your food, than you care to know, comes from Mexico and other countries.. being that my family has farmed, well, since we've existed, I think I have a little understanding of the family farm as well as how farming works in this country. Massive to you may not be massive to the who country in general as for as supply.
Further, I support rural broadband and roads.. etc. Just not willing to pay for it out of my pocket for someone else. Farmers? Sure.. people who choose a country life.. you need to pay to play.
Just as I can accept your arguments as you stated, can you accept that many people live in the city not becuase they WANT to, but because they HAVE to.. they have to for a good job, to get the services they need, etc. Just as I"m sure you'd sit back and be upset about rich people getting the pristine and prime land and areas saying it's not fair, there are many people that say its not fair they HAVE to live in a city while their hard earned money, and rushed life style, goes to support someone's desire to live in the country, have their cake, and eat it too. | |
| | | | | | | | 
tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
 ·Millenicom
 ·WildBlue
| Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement said by fiberguy :Further, I support rural broadband and roads.. etc. Just not willing to pay for it out of my pocket for someone else. Farmers? Sure.. people who choose a country life.. you need to pay to play. Electric and phone service were subsidized in order to be run to very rural areas. If broadband ever becomes a must have utility, then it may also be subsidized as they were. We all are already paying USF. Perhaps more of that money should be used for broadband to rural areas and not just schools.
--
RIP my babys Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07 & Beamer 7/24/08, Buttons, Buttons video, Beamer
| |
| | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement I'm guessing you live in a small town, right? | |
| | | | | | | | | |
tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
·Millenicom
·WildBlue
| Re: wireless is a tricky thing to implement said by fiberguy :I'm guessing you live in a small town, right? I am not asking for any government bailouts for myself | |
| | | | | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| In many cases, WiMAX is actually a lot cheaper to deploy than fiber. A LOT cheaper. Granted, bandwidth capacity on WiMAX is comparable to a DOCSIS 1.1 system in ideal conditions using 10 MHz channels (ideal conditions can happen in real world instances, but are rare), but it's certainly better than 3 Mbps or so that seem to be standard fare for WiFi-based deployments out in the sticks.
As long as WiMAX can provide satellite-speed (kbps) access without FAPs, low caps and throttling...and ridiculously high latency...your rural WiMAX development is a success. Generally speaking, people living out in the country are going to be perfectly happy paying $60 per month for a 5x384 connection...yes, that's what cable had in town four years ago but it's still great for most normal stuff, including streaming HD video.
You don't have to subsidize anyone, but the ball does need to get rolling. | |
| |
tmh
@qwest.net
| said by dcdeadbeat :I don't want to subsidize (by higher rates) a build-out of WiMax (or any other wireless or wired technology) so that Farmer Ted can surf porn faster. Farmer Ted's idea of porn may be different than yon citydweller. When all you see are cows.... | |
| ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI
·Alltel Axess
| Farmer Ted ...also pays into the USF that supposedly subsidizes rural telephone usage. Nevermind that landline use is going downhill fast in favor of wireless. When we built our house 4 years ago we didn't bother hooking up -- the line is in the underground pipe but not in service, just in case Hell freezes over and DSL comes through.
Some enterprising and forward-thinking congressman needs to push legislation to funnel the USF funds into rural BROADBAND coverage where it's needed.
Farmer Ted can also help keep his costs (and in the end, your grocery prices) from jumping, get better deals on feed, seed an fertilizer, benefit from new agricultural techniques and get info to keep his expensive equipment in top shape. | |
| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | OK which is it? 13% as the headline states of 12% as the text states? Not that it matters much since WiMax will have a hard time deploying to even 10% of the overall market, so both of them have been fluffed by PR wonks. | |
| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Co-ops to the rescue!!!1! Seriously, WiMAX and DSL may not be doable in rural areas when there's a qurterly profit motive. However the telephone co-op a few miles over decided relatively recently that WildBlue sucked (they championed WB for awhile as the panacea for rural broadband when the service came out a few years ago).
So they've pulled fiber much deeper into their network, and now their average loop length to customers is 7k feet. They're running ADSL on that 7k feet right now, but if they wanted to run ADSL2+ most people could get 15 Mbit/s speeds if I'm doing my math right.
Prices are steep ($70/month for 3Mbit down, 768k up) for DSL service compared to more urban locales, but we're talking about areas where cable would never *dream* of touching, where previously you *might* be able to get EvDO coverage or WiSP access. So this is way better...
So where does WiMAX come in? Well, the co-op in question (HCTC) is using that tech to distribute broadband in a few of their harder-to-reach areas where loops are still too long for DSL. Same speeds and prices as DSL service.
Here's an idea: if a telephone company cannot provide 3 Mbit down, 768k up service to a given access line by the end of 2009, that access line shall be turned over for a nominal fee to a (newly-formed if need be) cooperative. 3M service can be via any terrestrial system (DSL or WiMAX in all likelihood).
Nobody would be subsidizing anyone else this way, and places would get DSL a bit quicker, if at higher rates than city-dwellers. Or if not DSL then WiMAX. Or maybe, just maybe, fiber... | |
| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Co-ops to the rescue!!!1! I've said that rural telco co-ops are the best way to deploy into the sticks for awhile now. Many (yours included) are far more progressive when it comes to technology adoption since they are customer-owned and are not myopically focused on the next quarter's balance sheet. The higher prices reflect the higher cost of providing the service. It's rough going trying to amortize a $25000 DSLAM across 100 customers scattered over several square miles. | |
| | | |
prince
| ping/latency as an online gamer. i wont be switching to wimax.
wimax sucks with pings. | |
| | mkrueger
join:2005-06-04
San Francisco, CA
·Comcast
| Re: ping/latency said by Prince :as an online gamer. i wont be switching to wimax. wimax sucks with pings. Unless you compare it with satellite service ping time. Then wimax is FAR better. Is wimax latency really that much worse than DSL? | |
|
TechCANADA
@sitel.net | wimax wont evolve ? It has the cabability of UP TO a 60MB connection at a maximum distance of 250KM ....once the bugs are worked out with congestion and assigning IP`s | |
| | | |
|
|
13% Of DSL Users Will Go WiMax
Re: astroturf