Strange Bedfellows( old news - 09:30AM Wednesday Jan 23 2002) tags: security If you remember back in Novemeber we discussed Rob Rosenberger, who had been paid a visit by federal agents when he discovered sensitive information while investigating a major anti-virus software vendor's products. Rob himself posted his side of the story in the above mentioned thread. The visit brought up the primary question of how tightly knit AV vendors are with the government, and if the vendors have the ability to essentially use the government as "hired thugs" to avoid embarrassment in the name of national security. Several months later, Forbes seems to have stumbled into the party and the story, posting the name of the vendor... In their article here, which requires a brief and free registration, Forbes all but blurts out the name Network Associates, and after it raises some interesting questions regarding the "magic lantern" project, it states the following: " Before that, another controversy, over censorship. At 3 o'clock one morning in September, federal cops and an agent knocked on the Wellman, Iowa, door of Robin Rosenberger. Rosenberger, an Internet gadfly of the companies that make computer protection software, was about to reveal on his Web site Vmyths.com that Network Associates had advised the National Security Council to shut down the entire Internet in September as a way of eradicating the Nimda virus. The disclosure would have been potentially embarrassing since it implied that the company's software wasn't working.
The agent was there to ask Rosenberger to kindly withhold posting the information--or else--for vague purposes of "national security" following the Sept. 11 terrorist attack. Rosenberger complied at the time, but later recounted portions of the incident on various Internet sites without naming the company.
At least that's the version of events from Rosenberger's camp. Says Network Associates' Hodges: "Network Associates would never sponsor nor condone attempts to censor anyone anywhere." We all know the government works completely independently of corporate interests. Right?
Related:- Uh, Mom? The Air Force Just Attacked Our PC
- T-Mobile Systems Hacked?
- Cyber-Attack On U.S. Larger Than Previously Believed
- Japanese Computer Scientists Crack WPA
- No, Obama Isn't Taking Over The Internets
- Comcast Employs New Botnet Alert System
- Time Warner Cable Security Flaw Exposes 65,000
- Hackable Time Warner Cable Modems Still Hackable?
|
 
kilingspam
join:2001-04-30
San Jose, CA
|  To damn funny!
My face hurts I am laughing so hard! he he ha ha ha
My next stop, Network Associates, to give them a piece of my mind and ascii art of the bird.
LOL
How many of you just know Forbes won't be backed into a corner like Rob was? Retraction of their article? LOL, NOPE!! ha ha ha | |
|  | 
purplejello
join:2001-08-23
Reno, NV
clubs: | Re: To damn funny! 1) You rule  Please give them two birds.
2.) Thumbs up from me. | |
| | Anon | Network Associates never said that I'm sorry to see that Forbes (and DSL Reports) have enabled this story to become twisted even further.
First, as Rob himself has stated at this site, he did not discover a flaw in an anti-virus software vendor's product. He merely learned "something" that he thought would be embarrassing to the vendor.
This "something" was comments made by a senior virus researcher from NAI at a private meeting on Sept. 18 of a government-industry working group on infrastructure security.
Note that Rob was NOT present at the meeting. He obtained an audio recording of the teleconference.
Nor did the NAI researcher suggest "shutting down the Internet."
NAI merely chimed in to support an idea that was being kicked around by some attendees at the meeting. That idea was to warn Internet users not to browse the Net until they had patched their IE browser against the hole exploited by Nimda.
The idea was quickly shot down by other participants, as has been previously reported in this Newsbytes story, which was published weeks before Rob was visited by the the Air Force Office of Special Investigations police.
So I don't know what Rob means when he says that NAI was trying to "squelch an important story."
As I understand it, Rob, by virtue of his work in the Air Force reserves, is not at liberty to disclose what happens at closed meetings involving government agencies.
Granted, it was low of NAI to get AFOSI cops to roust Rob out of his bed in the middle of the night.
But that does not make this incident proof of a conspiracy between the government and the anti-virus industry.
Brian McWilliams | |
| | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Network Associates never said that said by bmcwilliams:
So I don't know what Rob means when he says that NAI was trying to "squelch an important story."
Unless I read his forum response (linked above) wrong, Rob states that (NAI) trying to squelch an unimportant story is the story, not whatever he did or did not find, overhear or was writing about in the original column. All the other stuff related to it is just background.
"National Security" is a faceless, formless, lawless concept. It has spawned the X files, noiseless black copters and all manner of suspicions and myths. There's no doubt that it exists in the shadows all around us. Why is it surprising to find out that it has seeped into AV companies and their products we use every day?
--
Oops...sorry KrK. I hit the wrong reply to link...
[text was edited by author 2002-01-23 13:28:57] | |
| | 
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| quote:
Granted, it was low of NAI to get AFOSI cops to roust Rob out of his bed in the middle of the night.
LOW? My friend you miss the whole point. Who cares what he found out. The fact, and you even admit it, that NAI used a government agency to exert its will in the first place should disgust anyone reading the story.
[text was edited by author 2002-01-23 12:33:58] | |
| | | 
Copzilla$
Mmm... Donuts
join:2000-10-10
Friendswood, TX
| Re: Network Associates never said that People do this stuff all the time, Leviathan, not just AV companies.
Women accuse cheating husbands of beating them, children falsely report abuse, feuding neighbors calling in noise disturbances, drug dealers ratting another dealer off to get his turf, the list goes on and on.
I don't think one instance of a reporter being paid a visit by a bored government agent who asked him to hold a story in light of the 9/11 events as being an indication that AV companies have the government in their back pocket.
I think it's probably an indicator of an AV company exec calling the feds screaming about "RISK TO NATIONAL SECURITY, GET OVER THERE NOW AND STOP THIS ANIMAL!!!", and the agent's boss has been instructed to investigate everything that pops up, leave no stone uncovered, so he sends agent Joe Blow, who has had ZERO rest in the previous couple of weeks, and is working 20 hour days, and pops in when he figures he'll find this person at home for certain, and just asks if he'll throw him a bone so he can move on to something else. The reporter agrees, and the non-story is still a non-story.
But paranoia makes it a story, eh? * whisper * whisper* government agents * whisper * whisper * collusion * whisper * whisper * secrets * whisper *
The fellow who responded to the first article by saying *** sorry, I'm going to edit this out because it's not very nice - and I shouldn't have quoted it ***
--
"Free your mind and your behind will follow" - The iBrotha
[text was edited by author 2002-01-23 21:31:13] | |
| | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Network Associates never said that quote:
People do this stuff all the time, Leviathan, not just AV companies.
And they're wrong too.
--
-\|/- | |
| | | | |
Copzilla$
Mmm... Donuts
join:2000-10-10
Friendswood, TX
| Re: Network Associates never said that said by Leviathan:
And they're wrong too.
Oh, no doubt... Using misleading reports to government agencies in order to harass? Sure, it's dead wrong.
That doesn't mean the agency is a willing participant, though, and not necessarily an indicator of collusion. The agency has to strike a balance between duty to investigate and the right of the public to their peace and quiet.
--
"Free your mind and your behind will follow" - The iBrotha | |
| | | | | | pkust
join:2001-08-09
Houston, TX
| Re: Network Associates never said that said by Copzilla:
That doesn't mean the agency is a willing participant, though, and not necessarily an indicator of collusion. The agency has to strike a balance between duty to investigate and the right of the public to their peace and quiet.
Since when is rousting a private citizen at 3:00AM to "ask" him not to exercise his First Amendment rights a valid investigative technique?
--
Cordially,
Peter Nayland Kust
pkust@tekmedia.com
TEKMedia Communications
www.tekmedia.com | |
| | | | | | |
Copzilla$
Mmm... Donuts
join:2000-10-10
Friendswood, TX | -- Why don't you ask the person who paid the visit? | |
| | 
antiserious
The Future ain't what it used to be
Premium
join:2001-12-12
Scranton, PA
| ... "But that does not make this incident proof of a conspiracy between the government and the anti-virus industry.
Brian McWilliams" ...
... gee, thanks for clearing that up ... I feel SO much better, knowing you guys are looking out for us mere citizens ... I'm sure it's all in our best interests, right ? ...
... now I can sleep at night ...
... knock knock ...
--
"I got a Sweater for Christmas - I really wanted a Screamer, or a Moaner ... but I got a Sweater". | |
| Anon
| A sincere note of thanks to bmcwilliams
Second, I want to address an important comment he made in his posting. If I ever called the original story "important," then I erred. No excuses: I should only call the original story "embarrassing." I humbly apologize if I made such an error.
Third, I side with those who dismiss the event as an anomaly. The antivirus cartel doesn't wield the power to divert ground troops to reporters' doorsteps and NSC/OHS doesn't have the balls to set up an Office of Cyber-Censorship. A lot of bizarre things occur in gov't because shinola rolls downhill, not because a conspiracy group flings shinola. Mix a big terrorism event with a bunch of mil/gov people who run around with their heads chopped off and you've got the perfect recipe for a farce.
Having said that, though, I do believe our foible-icious gov/mil complex embraces the antivirus industry as their designated champion. Face it: if a true virus war ever broke out, the U.S. military would run like a helpless damsel to the antivirus industry. The Pentagon is a non-combatant with a serious addiction to antivirus updates. The antivirus cartel wields immense influence over the world's governments (except China). Their corporate concerns can morph into governmental concerns.
Fourth, to anyone who wants me to grow some balls ... get real! I volunteered for castration in the early '80s to get a security clearance. Oh, which reminds me: I should say {falsetto voice} "I don't speak for the U.S. military in any capacity" at this point. It takes every ounce of testosterone you've got left to look a cigar-chomping colonel in the face and say "no sir, I won't take your counterterrorism advice to buy new, more expensive state license plates just to replace my older, less-expensive ones with the Guard/Reserve logo on them."
Rob | |
| |
Copzilla$
Mmm... Donuts
join:2000-10-10
Friendswood, TX
| Re: A sincere note of thanks to bmcwilliams said by rsnbrgr:
Third, I side with those who dismiss the event as an anomaly.
Thank you... I'm glad to see that paranoia doesn't reign on the person who was the recipient of this incident.
said by rsnbrgr:
Having said that, though, I do believe our foible-icious gov/mil complex embraces the antivirus industry as their designated champion.
I believe you're probably right... I know government law enforcement bureaucracy, and I know that most of the hierarchy is technologically inept.
said by rsnbrgr:
Fourth, to anyone who wants me to grow some balls ... get real!
You're right here too. I shouldn't have quoted that. I do apologize.
--
"Free your mind and your behind will follow" - The iBrotha | |
| | | | Anon |  Re: A sincere note of thanks to bmcwilliams
Also, let me add two more important items. #1: I drip with sarcasm whenever I discuss this event. #2: This was a slugfest between two guys. One wanted to avoid public ridicule; the other wanted to protect his badge of trust.
{dripping sarcasm} Many experts in the antivirus industry started out on a white horse -- but now they straddle a palomino. Makes ya wonder where all those brown stains came from, eh? | |
| | | |
|
|
·