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Breaking the DSL Stigma
From cable to DSL in three days
(old news - 02:14PM Thursday Apr 04 2002)
tags: dsl · install
One of the stigmas hung around the neck of DSL is the inordinately long installation time. Coordination of loop installs, and CLEC vs. ILEC bickering (or just ILEC incompetence) for many years meant you could grow a full cycle of crops in the time it took for DSL Line delivery. This seems to be changing, at least for some.

When self-install kits originally hit the scene some time ago, there was naturally a large dose of skepticism among those of us who had waited endlessly for our DSL lines to go live. In reality, these "truckless installs" have had a fairly high success rate, with the relative success of DirecTV and others (at least of the initial install) backing this up.

Most companies have now made the self-install kits part of their modus operandi, but coordination snafus and bureaucratic quagmires still lend to lengthy install times for those looking to join the armies of the DSL faithful. However, there at least seems to be some improvement in getting the DSL line up and running, though much less in the ability to keep it that way. One of our moderators shares with us such a tale of wonder from Winnipeg, Canada:

Looking to cut costs and willing to take a slight speed hit, the elusive Kinguni migrated from Shaw Cable to MTS (Manitoba Telecom) DSL for $19.95/month for the first 6 months and then $37.95/month after that, compared to his 42.95 monthly bill for cable. Signing up via the company's website, he received his self-install kit and Efficient SpeedStream modem three days later. Included were the necessary filters and software, and after installing the cables and running the included setup CD, he was up and running that same day, happily testing at speeds of 1050 down/335 up. No muss. No fuss.

This may not necessarily be the norm, of course. Kinguni has technical knowledge and an army of BroadbandReports regulars to help him out in a pinch. According to MTS, an on-site tech install can usually up the time frame to 5-7 days, and there can still be line conditions and other extenuating circumstances that lead to delays, but the overall impression is certainly one of improvement.

A three to seven day installation with no hang-ups is a far cry from watching the Clec and Ilecs playing keystone cops in your back yard, basement, and checking account for months on end. Lending ammunition to the constant Coke Vs. Pepsi debate against cable, while bringing us one step closer to breaking the stigma that DSL installs take years off of your life.

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Forums » Breaking the DSL Stigma
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Post a:

nc1165

join:2001-04-10
Delray Beach, FL

That's not fair - no cheating

You can't post an article about Canadian competency for broadband transition. You really had me going for a second. I thought it was a U.S. telco.

Honey, pack the bags! Tell the kids we're movin' to Manitoba!
--
If my enemy cuts me, I will drown him in my own blood.

pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA
·Clearwire Wireless
·Cricket Broadband
·Comcast Formerly ..


Canada does it better

There are a lot of reasons to like B.C. or Alberta, not just the broadband.Canada does it better because their government regulates the industry sensibly. US regulators (FCC)are stuck on stupid, as evidenced by the recent decision that cable internet is an information service, not subject to regulation.De-regulation has been a debacle for consumers, investors, and the industry, but Congress still pretends otherwise.
[text was edited by author 2002-04-06 10:41:19]

TireSmok

@bellsouth.net

Re: That's not fair - no cheating

TO MANY GREEDY PEOPLE IN THE US TO MAKE IMPROVMENTS LIKE THAT.

Rj

@aol.com

USA, is South Florida still in the US?? 11 days (post on self install kit was the slow part. The line was ready first before modem came %he company? Would you believe AOL! (Bell South in some locals seems to be as fast on instals.) so its not slow everywhere. Just some places. Using the USB kit.
frontenac

join:2002-04-08
London, ON

Hey. I got my DSL setup in 2 days and that was time spent waiting for the courier to deliver the modem! No problems in Canada. 1.5mb/s DSL or 3mb/s Cable in any major center. No underfunded, deregulated ISPs with crazy schemes going belly up either. The only problems we had were caused by @HOME in the US. Good riddence to them and their flakey service.
wiley post$

join:2002-01-13
who cares


My DSL was up a week before the Due date

My Option 2 DSL was up a week before the due date!. But then again, I work for ASI ! heh heh!

All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.
Frank Zappa

[text was edited by author 2002-04-08 20:52:27]
login name
Premium
join:2000-08-11

what is the point of this article?

I think 99.99% of all other dsl installations take a considerably longer time than 3 days. If this starts to happen on a regular basis, I will give it some credit, but until then....
--
Asked by CBS television if he would prefer bin Laden be killed rather than captured alive, he said: ``Oh, my goodness gracious, yes, after what he's done. You bet your life.''

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: what is the point of this article?

The point is that there is some improvement.

When I ordered my DSL line in early 2000, I waited three months just to get a tech to show up. It took them 3 weeks for the ISP, CLEC and ILEC just to agree on an address.

On the install date the Verizon tech spent ELEVEN HOURS at and around my apartment building in queens.

And this wasn't uncommon two or three years ago. The trend is certainly improving.....
--
dead american hero
login name
Premium
join:2000-08-11

Re: what is the point of this article?

I don't see it as a "trend" if it has happened to one person. I honestly don't know of anyone that had a total time from signing up to surfing the net in three weeks, let alone 3 days.

Don't get me wrong, this is EXCELLENT, but far from the norm, and I certainly don't see many of the popular ISP's moving to a sub-week install date.
--
Asked by CBS television if he would prefer bin Laden be killed rather than captured alive, he said: ``Oh, my goodness gracious, yes, after what he's done. You bet your life.''

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: what is the point of this article?

3 days, 7 days, 14 days, 21 days....beats the hell out of three months and three stooges.

And our reviews do support that there's an improvement occurring in install times, and it's primarily thanks to the self-install kit.

There's still %$#@ed installs sure, if that's your point.
--
dead american hero

dslfan2

@sbc.com

My Sbc was up and running 9 days from order. I read reviews now here where Sbc is getting it done in 4 - 8 days. That's the point! Things HAVE improved even here in the Usa!

Btw...my dsl is MUCH faster than charter is in my area for less money!
lvas

join:2001-05-17
Glen Carbon, IL

Re: what is the point of this article?

avg for SBC dsl orders is currently at 7 days - no matter who the ISP is.
iluvinternet

join:2002-03-26
Dallas, TX

Re: what is the point of this article?

"avg for SBC dsl orders is currently at 7 days"

you sure about that?

dru

join:2000-09-14
Corona, CA

Re: what is the point of this article?

My company sells DSL using SBC as the ILEC. They are now quoting - and meeting - six business day install schedules. However, we have seen a few instances where a customer had sync and connectivity three days later.

This, of course, is due to automation in the central office. Rather than sending an order for someone to run wires between binding posts, they now have these robotic crosspoint systems. Orders are entered online by the ISP and most processes from beginning to end are automated.

The down side is, if their records are incorrect, or there is a problem with the line or equipment, then they have to dispatch someone after the due passes, and they miss the original "promised" date.

Abe Froman

join:2000-08-19
Dallas, TX

Re: what is the point of this article?

said by dru:
Rather than sending an order for someone to run wires between binding posts, they now have these robotic crosspoint systems.
Not quite, but keep trying.

sadowski
I Am My Own Doppelganger
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY
clubs:

2000: Verizon installs line 30 days after order submitted to ISP.

2001: Rhythms pulls out my area; North Point order placed. New line scheduled for 2 weeks. (Never installed since NP then went out of business during this period).

2001: Verizon shared service, 5 days, though the phone side did first tell DSL that I wasn't a VZ customer - and DSL sent me three modems which they paid to return.
dufrense

join:2002-03-09
Neenah, WI
I was good to go in less than 14 days of my order.
Fooshnik

join:2001-06-21
Sacramento, CA
I think it must be some sort of record...

shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

said by Shaggy2002:
I think 99.99% of all other dsl installations take a considerably longer time than 3 days. If this starts to happen on a regular basis, I will give it some credit, but until then....

The point was that in Canada, 99.9% of DSL installs are done in 3-5 days, while thier US counterparts take forever. 3-5 days is the norm in Canada.

Burlroad8

join:2001-06-29
Neptune Beach, FL

When I ordered DSL service from BellSouth, I got my modem in less than a week and was up and running the next day. Self-installation, noproblems. And this was well over a year ago. Since that time they have made MAJOR improvements to their email servers, and the few contacts I've had with their tech support (after installing new O/S's) have been pleasant and productive (except, maybe, the tech support girl who suggested that I go to their customer support site for help in getting back on line after installing W2K). And, my friends in the area all report the same level of service.
login name
Premium
join:2000-08-11

Re: what is the point of this article?

I feel bad now.i never realized that dsl service was actually getting better. After a three month wait for mine, with earthlink, I finally got service.

Its nice hearing that other people are in fact getting prompt service nowadays. I have a change of heart now...
--
Asked by CBS television if he would prefer bin Laden be killed rather than captured alive, he said: ``Oh, my goodness gracious, yes, after what he's done. You bet your life.''
xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:

Where those prices?

Where those prices Canadian or US currency? If they were Canadian then what is the job market like there and how do I immigrate?

72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB

Re: Where those prices?

CDN currency dude!

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


Re: Where those prices?

So in USD that's:

$12.50/month for the first 6 months, going up to $23/month for what looks to be at least 1500/350 speeds.

Man US broadband blows!

-- Rob
[text was edited by author 2002-04-04 14:56:15]
2farfromCO7

join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI

Re: Where those prices?

You can thank deregulation for that.
mishymash

join:2002-04-02
Niagara Falls, NY
PLEASE tell me who offers those prices right now I have verizon dsl for 49.95/month!!!!

72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB

Re: Where those prices?

You have to move across the river to Ontario.
xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

So what are immagration laws looking like? I have 768/128 via Verizon and am paying 49.95. Cox might get Cable to my neighborhood sometime this decade but with the way they are handling the transition from RR to Cox Highspeed Internet (not upgrading the existing, and laying the new) I doubt I would switch. Current users seem to be pulling around 56K speeds

alex4life
Alex4life
Premium
join:2001-06-22
Delta, BC

Re: Where those prices?

I'd recommend moving into Shaw territory. They service most major cities in Alberta and British Columbia. Avoid Ontario, Rogers has a lot of complaints against them.
--
"Nothing fits better than a dead man's shirt" -Jimmy James

morph

join:2001-08-19
Canada

Re: Where those prices?

don't count out cogeco in ontario ...... 2048 down; 384kb uploads 24/7 ...... had a few snags but in general VERY good performance

pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA
·Clearwire Wireless
·Cricket Broadband
·Comcast Formerly ..

said by alexthepsycho:
I'd recommend moving into Shaw territory.
Rogers is a lot better that most US carriers. Canada has an ongoing broadband task force and higher standards than the US. Our service standards have been declining due to de-regulation and corruption.
frontenac

join:2002-04-08
London, ON
Job market sucks and so do wages. Multinational employers treat you like dirt under their feat as well. Hey we have to get a break somewhere! Low dollar makes everything imported 50%-100% more expensive as US as well.
xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:

Re: Where those prices?

Ouch. Well I guess I will sit tight here in the "Silicon Dominion" as our state government insists on calling it.
BridgeTapBob

join:2002-03-26
Indianapolis, IN

Location is the key to shorter install times

I have been one to experience a 3-7 day DSL install. One thing to keep in mind is "Location". I work at a company located in downtown Indianapolis. I am two blocks away from Ameritech CO serving the downtown area. Im pretty familiar with the trunk space and the layout of the downtown area. If anyone is familiar with downtown Indianapolis, he/she would be familiar with the Bank One Tower(largest tower in the city) located 1 block away from the Ameritech CO.

The Bank One Tower is one place where the DSL lines can be put in rather quickly. But its all about the location. The Company who owns the riser rights are very competent when it come to allowing access to the riser cables.

The 3-7 day install is no a pipedream, but there are many other factors that come into play. If a ILEC has to track down remote terminals or clean out demarcation points, that takes time. Once you start getting past 9,000 feet from the Central office, there are numerous variables to take into consideration. The ILEC's need to do their job just like the ISP's need to have a backend design set for redundancy. The majority of the time spent in the provisioning process is identifying the route the copper takes (shorter the loop the better), tracking down bridgetaps (Using TDR) and removing load coils underground (pass me the shovel please).

Its all about location. Undergound cables are going to be affected by squirrels and other furry animals. Aerial cables can be affected by even by bird nests. There are many variables that are out of human control. If I was a ILEC technician working on a 144k IDSL circuit for a CLEC, I sure as hell wouldnt be happy if I had to remove load coils, climb up telephone poles, or repair copper chewed up by squirrels. Most of the time sucked up in the provisioning process is poor communication between department databases and political decisions used to stall growth for competitors.

Location, Location Location, just like real estate
--
"What do you mean Im past 18,000 feet!!!!'
Faisal

join:2000-07-21
Miami, FL

Re: Location is the key to shorter install times

Here in our neck of the woods ( South East Florida ) BellSouth Territory.

We are seen more and more 3-7 day turn ups too -:)
BridgeTapBob

join:2002-03-26
Indianapolis, IN

Re: Location is the key to shorter install times

That rocks. To be honest, of all of the RBOC's, Bellsouth is the only one that I have encountered that have the majority of processes in order. I have quite a few people in Nashville, TN that have BellSouth service, they have nothing but kudos.

Granted, they have problems just like any other RBOC. Overall, they have a pretty solid system.

What modem are they using for your area? Do you know whether or not your area is riding on ATM or Frame Relay?
--
"What do you mean Im past 18,000 feet!!!!'

SAM Hunter$

join:2001-05-11
USA
You know how many believe in the old saying "that when your number is up, its up." In my experience what determines that is the same thing that determines install time on DSL.
BridgeTapBob

join:2002-03-26
Indianapolis, IN

Re: Location is the key to shorter install times

Like a crap shoot at Caesars Palace. Roll the dice, hope that they are loaded.
--
"What do you mean Im past 18,000 feet!!!!'

Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:

Please no bashing but....

From what I can see Verizon is aiming for 5 business day self installs.

I'm under the impression that at least 85% of orders meet that deadline.

roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:

ILEC vs. CLEC...

BellSouth the telco (BST) seems to really have their act together when it comes to new provisioning -- 3-5 days from initial order to DSL active on loop isn't uncommon around here. A lot of this stems from the large number of remote DSLAMs (fewer copper issues to deal with) and better plant records than other ILECs. That said, I had to wait SEVEN MONTHS to get DSL, but that was because BellSouth ran out of facilities (I'm assuming ports) at the remote DSLAM serving my line. Qwest and most independent ILECs are in the middle; SBC and especially Verizon seem to take significatly longer than "average".

CLECs (Covad, etc.) still seem to have noticeably longer provisoning times than ILECs in general -- communication and coordination with ILECs remain troublesome, and CLECs do SDSL and IDSL (which require finding free pairs and often loop conditioning, particularly for IDSL) installs and seem to do more ADSL installs on longer loops (CLECs often will push the envelope, unlike ILECs who will simply disqualify long loops), which may have more problems.

In some cases delays in customers getting "hooked up" are caused more by modem shipping times -- this was a big probelm for ELNK in particular for awhile -- than by telco issues.

-SC
--
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/
BridgeTapBob

join:2002-03-26
Indianapolis, IN

Re: ILEC vs. CLEC...

Your comment hits on a very important note. When most people are discussing horror stores with DSL, they are mainly talking about Verizon, SBC (Ameritech & PacBell included). This for good reason. Verizon and SBC have endured a massive overhauls due to their mergers. Different databases and procedures have caused a lot of internal review. For example, before Bell Atlantic bought out GTE and became Verizon, GTE was very nimble in their ability to roll out DSL. Once Verizon was formed it took a lot longer to process new orders. This added to the internal strife between the company employees.

SBC went through the same process. They rolled out Project Pronto promising faster delivery of DSL circuits. However, Ameritech was already behind in deploying ATM in their C.O's. Ameritech was also getting hammered by State PUC's (Illinois & Indiana in particular)that were demanding improved service on the voice side of the business. This all contributed to Pronto becoming somewhat sluggish.

BellSouth on the other hand, has really been a bright spot in the southern states. Granted they have problems with loop issues and other market decisions. But overall, they have a solid system where not only their orders quickly pass through their system, but CLEC orders pass through the system at the same pace. Most of the problems CLEC's have is getting the right information regarding the circuit, Depending on the type of contract, they may or may not have direct access to ILEC provisioning databases. If i can see what the ILEC sees I can make my customer aware of the potential pitfalls with their pending order.

As far as the TELCO cancelling lines due to loop length, this is mostly attributed to circuits beyond 18,000 feet where the ILEC will not incur revenue to cover the costs of them fixing the line. Chances are, the CLEC providing lets say "144k IDSL" isnt making money on the circuit either. As I said before its all about your location. If a telco brings the RT's closer to those farther out (Similar to what Bellsouth has done), that is an investment that will pay rich dividends for all parties in involved.

--
"What do you mean Im past 18,000 feet!!!!'
Rigeltiger

join:2001-05-03
Leesburg, VA

Going on 6 months waiting...

If things are getting better for DSL installation and uptimes, it sure isn't from where I'm standing.

I ordered my DSL line in October '01. I'm going on my 6th of month waiting for an installation (there's nothing else reasonable available). In February (4 months after placing the order), Verizon confirmed I was qualified and gave my CLEC 2 weeks until install. Two weeks later, Verizon told them the hardware didn't exist and to stop selling the service, even though they'd been installing it for months already.

My calls to my CLEC about it are no longer returned. Their last comments were that I should call my Public Utilities Commission and complain.

Is DSL service getting better? No, I really don't think so.

See 6 replies to this post

ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska

Consider this

Fast installation doesn't mean beans if the cost is too high, or service is too unreliable, or both. O great, this means I get my high cost crappy service even faster....ok so maybe I am being a bit negative, but with good reason. The telcos....heh....nevermind. I don't wanna get fired up.
--
Arch Angel - "Death is irrelevant"

DMenscha
It's Not Fixed, But We Have A Workaround

join:2001-07-19
<-nowhere->

That's because the Canadians trained us at SBC

We had several technicians from Winnipeg and elsewhere in Manitoba training us at SBC Advanced Solutions in San Jose in the beginning. They were awesome as far as the physical plant was concerned because in Manitoba Telephone, the person doing the installation was responsible for the circuit from the jack to the CO. Many are the times i would have loved to have access to the CO in order to make something happen.

Anyway the boys from MTS were the best and could teach ANY US telecom company how things are done right.
--
Indecision may or may not be my problem
abv5

join:2002-03-21
Brooklyn, NY

I'll take two weeks

Two different service providers, verizon(!) and ACEdsl- both (self) installs went smooth as glass, under two weeks from start to finish. I'll take that...
three years ago, it was waiting for home installation and even that wasn't even such a nightmare at 6 weeks. Back then we were just thrilled to be getting broadband service in our neighborhood...

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
·Bright House
·Rogers Hi-Speed

For all you who think you *pay* too much in USD...

You do have to remeber something...if you live in canada you pay in canadian dollars. And against the american buck it looses 1/2 it's value. Besides makeing 60k a year you can almost live comfortably in some places in ontario...well if you can find a job that will pay 60k a year.

Anyway, the problem is if you get into major metro area's and such you'll run into the same problems as you have states side, oversold lines and not enough bandwidth.
pjay2

join:2002-02-05
San Diego, CA

FastConnect Kit from Cox - Delivered and surfing

I was tired of waiting for DSL so I looked at cable and thought that I would have to take a day off to wait for the cable guy.....in fact, I called and they drop shipped me modem and a cool little box that had cable, instructions and sftware. I was up in two days after calling. I could of walked in to thier office and had it that day, but who wants to drive in southern california traffic, so I had it delivered. Just like ordering Pizza!!!
Tarmax

join:2001-05-03
Fort Lauderdale, FL

DSL install time in Southeast Florida is great...

I just ordered DSL service from COFS.net (or SnappyDSL, whichever u prefer) down here in the Miami/Ft Lauderdale area, and my connection was up in TWO days. Realistically speaking, though, it wouldn't have been "up" until the 3rd day because of the slow-ass US Postal Service -- that's when I received the DSL "confirmation letter" in the mail, and that's also when my lil box would have arrived.. but I'm getting off track here.

I got the connection so fast mainly because of 1) BST is the telco down here, and 2) I had the SpeedStream 5260 from a prior connection with SBC out in Cali.

But really, Bell South really does seem to have their act together. And I guess that' really the whole point... to brag about how fast I got my dsl connection, huh..?

Yeah.. I know it's pointless to type all that for the whole 2 days matter.. but hey, it's almost 5 in the morning and I'm really bored

Okay.. I'm gonna go play some more WarCraft III...
averagedude

join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ

Realizing competition from WiFI

I think they just realized that WiFi setups could cut into their market.

Got to love competition!
I just wish it were customer satisfaction that drove better service.
Kire4

join:2001-06-01
Flint, MI

SBC & Installation

Once SBC/Ameritech made all partner ISPs in Michigan use line share exclusivly, installs for us has averaged 5-7 days. I will gladly take longer installations (12-20 days)if I could get the option to install using unbundled loops again. No need for Ameritech phone line, place the circuit where I want, oh yeah I want it back.
rd2413$

join:2002-04-04

up in 3 days

I called SBC/Ameritech for dsl service and 3 days later I recived the self install kit; 15 minutes after that I was up and running, no problems!!! I got the 1500 service 1262/250, much more steady than my previous cable service from charter and my downloads are faster. Could not be happier.
Radioman991

join:2001-09-24
Dayton, OH

7 days for me

The good news was it was 7 days from order to install. (Ameritech, and Covad.) The bad news is EarthStink took 2 months to get the modem out.

livininarizona
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Merced, CA
clubs:

Anyone with a good connection...

Anyone with a good stable connection and no outages should be forced to do community service work especially those people with OOL, that's just not fair
--
"Insanity is hereditary, we get it from our children"
Forums » Breaking the DSL Stigma


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