 
Harddrive
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT
| Boston Harbor is the culprit here. »/town?tid=2540
From Allopenna:
"Sadly (for this purpose only ), Boston Harbor is the culprit here. The wires from the CO are copper, as are the wires into my building. But it's fiber optic under the water - and that's the problem, in terms of DSL . I was told (and I believe this) that it is not likely that the fiber portion will be replaced any time soon, as it serves its primary purpose (voice communications) well."
If you think Verizon is going to lay copper under Boston Harbor just for DSL, you've got another thing coming. You're gonna have to wait on the local cable service. But from Allopenna's post, Cablevision won't be ready for at least two years. But here post was made on 11-2000. So maybe by next year sometime those people may get broadband.
I would hope the FCC would step in and have broadband access to most everyone in 5 to 10 years. Maybe I should win the Big Game lotto for $300 million and buy everyone a T1 too.
Both about the same chance of happening.
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Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered, for just such an emergency.-Foghorn Leghorn | |
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richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
|  Puzzled
The reason behind the 1-mile limit restriction from the telco CO is because beyond that, the losses in that cable are to great. (or so I have been told...)
Now, I know that the there is very little loss in fiber, so what's their beef? | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Re: Puzzled said by richk_1957:
Since I am not in that end of telecomunications, this might be off base, but -
The reason behind the 1-mile limit restriction from the telco CO is because beyond that, the losses in that cable are to great. (or so I have been told...)
Now, I know that the there is very little loss in fiber, so what's their beef?
What has to happen if there is fiber between the CO and the residence is that where the fiber connects to copper, there needs to be a DSLAM. The DSLAM is what makes DSL work (this is oversimplified yes, but for all intents and purposes it is true) and the DSLAM must connect to a copper pair that is copper all the way to the residence.
The remote terminals then act as a mini-CO, allowing for DSL to be expanded in terms of distance. Make sense?
Boogie | |
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the strokes$
join:2001-06-15
Louisville, KY
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. said by Xylon69:
"Sadly (for this purpose only ), Boston Harbor is the culprit here. The wires from the CO are copper, as are the wires into my building. But it's fiber optic under the water - and that's the problem, in terms of DSL
Why not try to get IDSL from Covad or a Covad reseller? It does travel over fiber and copper...just a thought.
It's not much, but it's better than nothing.
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"Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt" -Kurt Vonnegut | |
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Bchinch00
Brian
Premium
join:2001-01-13
U.S.A.
clubs:  | Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. I live in boston, and covad is not available in my area, but i do have the worldcom 1.5/768 dsl service for 49 bucks a month through dsli.
Brian
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Yankees suck, red sox all the way 2002!!!! | |
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Logan 5
Wondering what happens next..
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. Sounds like you all need to have another 'tea party'. Perhaps dumping your DSL and Cable Modem's into the bay would make the civic leaders take note?
j/k..... But I do feel for those of you in perfectly good areas to live having to deal with dial-up just because the RBOC's and ISP's are unwilling to rollout service to your areas in a timely manner.
Good luck
--
Angerman was filled with fury, he the judge and he the jury, Homer in the gun, homer in the gun | |
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skedatl$
To Provoke And Annoy
Premium
join:2002-01-29
Corona, CA
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. said by Logan 5:
Sounds like you all need to have another 'tea party'. Perhaps dumping your DSL and Cable Modem's into the bay would make the civic leaders take note?
j/k..... But I do feel for those of you in perfectly good areas to live having to deal with dial-up just because the RBOC's and ISP's are unwilling to rollout service to your areas in a timely manner.
Good luck
If you have the modems, you wouldn't need to toss 'em 
--
Notice to web hogs and to anti-Microsoft government hacks: A good parasite doesn't kill its host. | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. said by KrK:
said by Xylon69:
»/town?tid=2540
From Allopenna:
"Sadly (for this purpose only ), Boston Harbor is the culprit here. The wires from the CO are copper, as are the wires into my building. But it's fiber optic under the water - and that's the problem, in terms of DSL . I was told (and I believe this) that it is not likely that the fiber portion will be replaced any time soon, as it serves its primary purpose (voice communications) well."
If you think Verizon is going to lay copper under Boston Harbor just for DSL, you've got another thing coming.
That's a great excuse. They are basically saying "You can't get there from here." However, *nothing* stops them from setting up a remote DSLAM on the OTHER SIDE of the fiber, which is then connected back to the CO via the fiber under the harbor. The DSLAM serves as the connection point for the copper pairs to the people's homes. The only reason they aren't doing it it because they don't want too. Using the "Fiber under the harbor, nothing we can do" is pure hand-wringing at best. "My Dog ate my homework..."
You're leaving something quite obvious out here. There IS something VERY BIG that stops them from setting up a remote DSLAM on the other side of the fiber- it's called MONEY. What you haven't figured out yet is that it isn't free to do this. It's not like they just need to go out and flip the switch in the RT and it will work.
There is nothing that stops me from upgrading my computer from an AMD 1.4 Ghz to an AMD XP 1900+, adding a 160 GB hard drive and 4 GB of registered ECC RAM... see, I can just plug those new parts into my motherboard- I guess I'm just dragging my feet because I want a slower computer. Oh, wait... I have to BUY those parts first? That makes a little more sense...
Boogie | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. quote:
Ah, I forgot that Verizon doesn't have any money to invest in infrastructure... that those people in Boston want the service, and would pay for it, and that makes the investment worthwhile. Or are you still trying to sell everyone on the argument that DSL is a money losing service that won't make any money until ILEC's get a handout from the Government?
Basically, there is no competition, therefore, the people have no choice, and so there is no incentive for Verizon to give a damn. They can take as long as they want to deploy because it's not like they will "lose" business by going slow.
I'm done responding to this... either Verizon has unlimited cash or they have no cash... what kind of argument is that?
Please... for yours and everyone elses sake, take a course in business and marketing.
Boogie | |
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skedatl$
To Provoke And Annoy
Premium
join:2002-01-29
Corona, CA
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. said by boogie74:
quote:
Ah, I forgot that Verizon doesn't have any money to invest in infrastructure... that those people in Boston want the service, and would pay for it, and that makes the investment worthwhile. Or are you still trying to sell everyone on the argument that DSL is a money losing service that won't make any money until ILEC's get a handout from the Government?
Basically, there is no competition, therefore, the people have no choice, and so there is no incentive for Verizon to give a damn. They can take as long as they want to deploy because it's not like they will "lose" business by going slow.
I'm done responding to this... either Verizon has unlimited cash or they have no cash... what kind of argument is that?
Please... for yours and everyone elses sake, take a course in business and marketing.
Boogie
It's not about having cash or not having cash, it's how long will it take to make back the money. We all know Verizon has it, but they aren't a charity. If it's gonna take them 30 years to make back the money, then obviously they aren't even going to think about it, but if they have make back the install in 36 months, then they would think about it. Bottom line, no company can do a zillion dollars worth of work to install 500 customers, but you can do a few hundred thousand for 1,000's of customers.
--
Notice to web hogs and to anti-Microsoft government hacks: A good parasite doesn't kill its host. | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. quote:
It's not about having cash or not having cash, it's how long will it take to make back the money. We all know Verizon has it, but they aren't a charity. If it's gonna take them 30 years to make back the money, then obviously they aren't even going to think about it, but if they have make back the install in 36 months, then they would think about it. Bottom line, no company can do a zillion dollars worth of work to install 500 customers, but you can do a few hundred thousand for 1,000's of customers.
I totally agree. It also depends on the current spending habits of customers. All in all, however, despite how some would like to make it mandatory for a company to offer a product in EVERY location, it is going to be up to the company as to when and where to offer the product and how to make it most profitable to do so.
The sole reason companies exist is to make money. SBC, Verizon, Covad, AolTw... none of those companies are in business to make sure that every person that wants a service (despite the fact that it isn't offered in certain areas) happy. They are all in business to make money. And they are going to do EVERYTHING to maximize the amount of money they can make. If it isn't profitable to make a town of 2000 people happy with DSL, it won't happen.
Boogie | |
| | | | | finortis
join:2001-11-30
| Re: Boston Harbor is the culprit here. It's what happened here in Albuquerque, NM. When I first moved out here (OK I was lucky as I moved out to go to school, and in the campus dorms, we got ethernet hookup as part of the dorm cost, and so connected to the Internet via the universities 3 T3 lines...
The rest of the city, it was a shambles, with dialup the only option. The cable company (then Jones Intercable, since became Comcast) talked about deploying cable modem service for years, and nothing done. It wasn't *all* them though, a little something about how local politics can enter into things.
Then for instance we had a fiber cable that ran a good long way, down towards Los Lunas, but no one could tap into it. Why? The local phone company (US West then), AT&T, and the government each invested something in laying it, and so a teritorial dispute broke out. Until that was settled, no one could tap into it...so it sat there for years un-used. I'm not sure if they ever got that one settled to this day or not.
In some parts of the city, they terribly multi-plexed the lines to the point that people were getting 2,400 baud and the like, and it was really ticking people off. Would they address it? No, not even though the voice line of the professor who taught network topologies when I was taking it, had audible line noise at the box they install to mark the demarcation point outside his house. He was peeved, so started trolling their booth and telling everyone how they could do their job better, when US West showed up at a trade show to demo something ROFL Our whole lecture on phone wiring became "Why US West sucks, and how to do it better"...that was one strange lecture ROFLMAO Carol was also not happy...try running a computer business when all you get from the phone company is 56k that runs at more like 9,600 baud. Over that one must download all the drivers, operating system updates, BIOSes, tech documents etc, for every piece of hardware that goes into a computer they're building for a customer... And oh yeah, they custom build x86 machines, DEC Alphas, and Sun UltraSPARCs (having a broad base of customers from banks, to one of the local hospitals, Sandia, the government, etc...each looking for different things in a custom built comp of whichever platform)...
Anyway, in it was fall 1999, Jeto Communications came in and started offering DSL independent of the phone company (that didn't yet get into it). But then it was expensive (like $500 for equipment, another $500 for install, and $200 or so for just 133/133 IDSL)... Rates were bad, and all over the country people were reporting better rates...
However, this was just enough for others to get off their collective arses and start deployment. Over the next year, US West responded by beginning to implement DSL service of their own, then of course other providers moved in, prices were driven down to more normal rates (akin to what the rest of the country was paying).
After Jeto moved in with their own offering, it wasn't then long before everyone else started moving in. Actually rather short by comparison of the first guy moving in.
As to demand? Well when you consider a large city, and a number of well payed and technically knowledgeable employees, such as those who work at Intel (has a fabrication campus up near Rio Rancho, where they manufactured Pentium IIIs among other things), Sandia National Laboratories (involved in National Security research and development mostly), among other places...there is and has been demand.
[text was edited by author 2002-04-16 13:06:19] | |
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sadowski
I Am My Own Doppelganger
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY
clubs:
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day said by Nightfall:
Broadband providers research areas before they move into one. If they think they are only able to get 5-10 customers for a certain node, then they probably won't spend thousands up front and a couple thousand a month to roll it out in a given area to make $250-$500 a month.
Exactly with a 10 or 11% purchase rate there's little incentive to throw tons of cash into this. That's why local franchise committees need to make it an issue for renewal and telco's need to be offered incentives too. This is where some national policy and leadership could come into play. | |
| | | 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day Fine, then the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT and huge government beaurocracies should be setting fixed price levels. If you want to charge these prices for analog basic cable, you must provide these service. NO CITY IN AMERICA WITHOUT CABLE MODEMS SHOULD EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE CHARGED MORE MONEY FOR ANALOG BASIC THAN A CITY THAT DOES. There is no excuse for it. THe only companies that couldn't survive would be the large minority players which shouldn't be there in the first place. If this was the policy 5 years ago defragmentation(which is by far the biggest problem in the history of cable TV) would've been solved 3 years ago. This would've removed the wide discrepancies of the broadband service withing metropolitan areas. | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| The government and regulators should not give one single "incentive" to the telcos and cable companies. If they can't realize the benifits of more customers, then they shouldn't even be in business. Ironic that a country like the U.S. lags behind significantly in high speed connectivity when compared to countries in Asia and Europe. | |
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TZi
k1L0
join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day said by JakCrow:
Ironic that a country like the U.S. lags behind significantly in high speed connectivity when compared to countries in Asia and Europe.
Countries in Asia and Europe usually:
a) have only one phone company.
b) are significantly smaller in size, more compact and have less rural areas.
c) pay a lot more for the phone service as a whole.
d) don't have to deal with multiple, varying jurisdictions and regulations in different areas of the country.
Take for example, France, they have 60 million people living in country about the size of Texas with only one phone company and one authority to authorize right-of-way/deployment of broadband. Of course it's easier under these circumstances.
Can you imagine if Texas had 60 million residents and one phone company and one government authority to answer to? Of course everyone would have broadband access. Unfortunately, it's a lot more complicated here because the U.S. is much larger than any European or Asian nation (China excluded) and we have so many broadband companies and regulatory districts that it's bound to be more complex and drawn out.
The United States arguably has the most sophisticated and advanced communications infrastructure in the world. Just because it doesn't reach every sparsely populated region shouldn't be used to gauge it's success. There are just simply places in this country where it can't be justified to deploy broadband pain and simple. Remember, European cities were built around the idea of densely populated urban centers to serve the needs of the people in the pre-automobile era. It's America that invented the idea of everyone moving out of the cities with our highways and cars, so it costs a lot more to reach all of our population.
--
Miami Hurricanes #1 (we're back!)
[text was edited by author 2002-04-14 20:43:29] | |
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TZi
k1L0
join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day said by pupowski:
Boston is not "sparsely populated", neither is New York City. US technology has fallen victim to greed and corruption, as has our Constitution.
I admit, broadband availability in urban areas is clearly the result of poor regulation and greed. There's no excuse not to have broadband if you live in an urban center, especially since the potential is there. Again, if there were just one phone company across the US and one governing agency, I'd imagine most of us would have broadband by now. Unfortunately, this isn't the case though and many phone companies are indeed greedy or downright fraudulent. In this case, some sort of government intervention is clearly required. I encourage those residents of urban areas to write to their state regulatory agencies, that's the only thing the phone companies will likely respond to--fines! If you really want to drive the point home and can afford to do so, get rid of local loop altogether and tell them why. In many areas, though I can only speak for Miami(metroPCS), you can get a flat rate wireless PCS phone for about the same cost as having a home phone line. Alternatively, you could just get rid of every feature on your phone and reduce it to basic dialtone. The phone company basically doesn't make any money unless you subscribe to their "extra" features like voicemail etc... When subscribers start leaving, they'll eventually have to respond... In Florida with Bellsouth, they've been extremely aggressive in their DSL/broadband deployment, even to far-flung fiber subscribers with buried cables-- they've come up with some sort of solution, usually IFITL.
--
Miami Hurricanes #1 (we're back!)
[text was edited by author 2002-04-14 22:03:33] | |
| | | | | | | 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day What really pisses me off though is that these monopolies try to convince people that regulation is bad, and for the most part, people have bought that scam hook, line, and sinker for the last 7 years(since 1995). Many of us people here who have half a brain realize that government realize that government agency are far efficient, productive, and accountable for their actions than unregulated monpolies. However, those views would make us traitors in today's society. | |
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TZi
k1L0
join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day said by 2farfromCO:
What really pisses me off though is that these monopolies try to convince people that regulation is bad, and for the most part, people have bought that scam hook, line, and sinker for the last 7 years(since 1995). Many of us people here who have half a brain realize that government realize that government agency are far efficient, productive, and accountable for their actions than unregulated monpolies. However, those views would make us traitors in today's society.
You're right, but how much more regulated can the telecommunications industry get? I mean, the phone company has to be the most heavily regulated and oldest monopoly in the country. Granted, I don't think more regulation or de-regulation is the solution here. The FCC is probably about as efficient as the soon-to-be-canned INS. They ought to split the FCC into "wired" and "wireless" regulatory agencies and rewrite the existing regulations in a manner that is more concise and effective for the current situation in this country... Regulating the phone companies even more at this point would just add more bureaucracy to the equation and draw things out even more. Both the phone companies and the FCC are behemoth institutions that can't be asked to really know what they're doing or take responsibility for it.... Mohammed Attah probably got approved for his DSL circuit about the same time they sent his visa to the flight school...
--
Miami Hurricanes #1 (we're back!)
[text was edited by author 2002-04-14 22:14:35]
[text was edited by author 2002-04-14 22:16:31] | |
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amdaz
Premium
join:2000-12-29
San Francisco, CA |  Re: Rome wasn't built in a day
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pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA | said by amdaz:
I dont like Ideologue, and young Mr. Powell is definitely one. It is a wonder considering how reasonable his Daddy is.
His dad is a good man, but this apple fell far from the tree. | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Competition is needed within each "segment" of the industry, i.e. in telcom, cable, and sat. There could have been great competition that would have driven new modes of network access to most markets, but the telcoms and cables have been swallowing each other up (which shouldn't have been allowed) and the same is going to happen to sat if it isn't stopped. These consolidations are what's threatening broadband deployment, not regulations. Look at what happens when there are 2 or more telcoms or cable companies serving one area: better service, more features, and better pricing. (deregulation will drive prices down my ass) I don't think there is an issue with more or less regulation, but every entity involved should be forced to obey EXISTING regulations. I also think that various regulatory bodies and officials should be investigated for corruption and bribery, but that's just my opinion. | |
| | | | | | | | finortis
join:2001-11-30
| What's ironic is when industry on the one hand says they don't want regulation, or government intervention on the one hand. And yet on the other the recording industry cries out for regulation/intervention in things such as the SSSCA so that all digital devices will have to incorporate government mandated anti-copy measures.
They're not against government intervention...they're just against it when it could serve the customer rather then themselves... AKA, if the regulation restricts the company, bad in their view... If it restricts customers and could serve to turn their computer into little more then a VCR, that's OK with them... | |
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SAM Hunter$
join:2001-05-11
USA
| Of course the actual phone service in most European countries sucks compared to the Telco system in the U.S. and in many cases in Europe they pay through the nose for lesser service.
--
Just because its accurate doesn't mean its true. | |
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TZi
k1L0
join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a daysaid by KrK:
large entities have over the entire population. They will protect their domains like wild alley cats, and the good of the people be damned.
On your point about Texas having one phone company, I agree completely. However, I was referring to our country as a whole. While SBC may have 99% market share in Texas, the whole country probably has countless different phone companies with different technologies not to mention the co-ops and CLECS. Thus, when the FCC makes new regulations it has to take each and every company's financial situation and infrastructure in to account. Once that's finished it's almost impossible to make a "universal" policy on broadband.
e.g. If the FCC were to declare broadband a universal, standard commodity, who pays for the fiber solution in Boston, how much should the home customers be charged to install T-x repeaters all the way into the middle of Oregon, and what needs to be done about the Indiantown telephone company whose copper is too old and corroded to carry any sort of digital signal? Then what about Alaska Hawaii and Puerto Rico who aren't really as integrated into our communications infrastructure, should they pay more or just be excluded altogether? You see, the FCC just can't naively legislate broadband policy because it would apply to our nation as a whole... Too many technologies to consider in too many jurisdictions with too much bureaucracy to actually be effective...and it's a shame it has come to this, but it is the reality we face. I'm not defending the FCC or the telcos here, I mean something obviously needs to be done about the way we manage all these different technologies and jurisdictions to effectively tackle any new issues.
Sadly, I have to agree with you on the political point. That goes beyond the scope of the FCC and the phone companies and describes our political system as a whole. Geez, if I had the answer to that, I could be president... Corruption is inherent in capitalism, so it is our responsibility as citizens to police it. Unfortunately, we've been asleep at the wheel when it comes to the FCC. Best shot we have is to run for office or let our elected officials know of our concern for the mismanagement of the FCC. Hey, we made the IRS be "nicer" didn't we, or is that just a joke ( I guess it's a bad day 4/15 to be making that comparison, but you get the idea)...
PS If you think the FCC is bad, have you ever dealt with the FAA (rotfl)
--
Miami Hurricanes #1 (we're back!)
[text was edited by author 2002-04-15 14:31:43] | |
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sadowski
I Am My Own Doppelganger
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY
clubs: | If there were more customers there would be more customers. Not everyone wants broadband. | |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Nightfall:
It took 2 years to get cable broadband and I was one of the first ones to get it. TWO FRIGGIN YEARS!
Sorry, have to chuckle. You exclaim that Grand Rapids, MI, is a big city. Never been there so can't comment. But I live in the middle of Los Angeles, which a bit bigger than Grand Rapids, in a high-end community, and a cable modem rollout, if there is ever to be one, WILL HAVE MORE THAN FIVE YEARS. [See Post by emhinkes below . . . which I haven't yet read . . . but I likely know what it says.]
Heck, where I live DSL is just now being offered. Too bad for my neighbors a few blocks away served by Verizon. Their best hope is the foreseeable future, is the revival of Metricom's old service, which never was really here, but was supposed to be here, but died "on the vine."
My point is your situation is far from unique, and illustrative of the timeliness in which these improvements happen.
said by Nightfall:
These rollouts take time. I am going to get a lot of flamers here saying they should just get it rolled out everywhere and price doesn't matter. I would love to see 100% of the US broadband capable. I just know it isn't going to happen for about 3-5 more years.
Broadband to 100 percent of the US? More like by the end of the decade. Not much is gonna happen for another two years, and then the effort to wire rural America is going to run into a lot of snags and stalls. Believe me. | |
| | | finortis
join:2001-11-30
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day quote:
Sorry, have to chuckle. You exclaim that Grand Rapids, MI, is a big city. Never been there so can't comment. But I live in the middle of Los Angeles, which a bit bigger than Grand Rapids, in a high-end community, and a cable modem rollout, if there is ever to be one, WILL HAVE MORE THAN FIVE YEARS. [See Post by emhinkes below . . . which I haven't yet read . . . but I likely know what it says.]
Heck, where I live DSL is just now being offered. Too bad for my neighbors a few blocks away served by Verizon. Their best hope is the foreseeable future, is the revival of Metricom's old service, which never was really here, but was supposed to be here, but died "on the vine."
Perhaps I should know this already, but where is Sillicon Valley exactly? If they're not wired, I can see it now. Cisco has some employees that can't do their work from home (so they can leave the office early to eat dinner with the family, etc...) because, their net engineers have no broadband. I could just see a few net engineers gripe.
Then again we have Intel, Sandia National Laboritories, and a few other such businesses here in Albuq. I wonder what they're employees thought before we got broadband.
I would think many working for many of these tech firms would be interested in broadband at home. Then if there be any movie stars (aka Hollywood also there), well hmm...
But where is Sillicon Valley exactly? If they don't have broadband access for their residents now...I could just see it now LOL Yes many comp engineers, getting home don't want to necessarily have to deal with dialup. I know people besides myself, who leased an appt partly in consideration of whether they could get DSL...
Hell when this one individual was graduating from college, and in interview with many companies...when it came to locating him (the company settled everything, got a place for him to live, payed for his stuff to be moved at corporate expence, etc...) one thing he asked was that he has broadband. They were like "no problem, we'll arrange that...
If enough prospective employees want this, and companies in CA offer similar to this tech firm this person got hired from...you'd think the like of companies such as Intel would be thinking "we have employees who want this, which after interview, we'd like to hire..."
[text was edited by author 2002-04-16 13:36:01] | |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Rome wasn't built in a day said by finortis:
Perhaps I should know this already, but where is Sillicon Valley exactly?
It extends north from San Jose to just south of San Francisco. Pull up a map, and you'll recognize a lot of familiar towns. | |
| TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| If broadband is important If broadband is important and if 75% of the population can get wire based broadband now, why not just move to an area with broadband? I would think that moving ten to fifteen miles from this suburb would get you into an area with cable or DSL broadband. | |
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pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA | Municipal Cable Now! Maybe we should all move to Tacoma, and enjoy the benefits of municipal cable.Those of us with AT&T in Seattle, Vanvouver, and Spokane get less service, higher prices and more propaganda. | |
| | | TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA | Re: Municipal Cable Now! Maybe we should all move to Mosses Lake and enjoy fiber to the home/farm. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Re: If broadband is important Why should people have to do that? People should be able to live where they want. Technology should follow people, not the other way around. | |
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pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA | Re: If broadband is important said by ILOVELA2:
Why should people have to do that? People should be able to live where they want. Technology should follow people, not the other way around.
You're correct; I was being sarcastic. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Duh! Sorry, my mistake | |
| lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| The Broadband Embargo Remember a little thing in the mid 1970's called "an oil embargo"? This is the same thing. The RBOC's stopped trying to advance DSL when they collectively decided it was unfair and had their stooges write Tauzin/Dingle. Those on remote terminal technology and those that could benefit are quite simply screwed. The FCC is either on the take or just too stupid to see what is really going on.
"According to Link Hoewing, assistant vice president of Internet and technology policy at Verizon, "[Deregulation] policies were designed for the telephone market, not broadband....."
I would like to corner this idiot for the complete breakdown on how this is so. Every time you talk to someone in Verizon about DSL deployment you get many different and even conflicting excuses. The best I heard was "the FCC won't let us deploy to remote terminals". My first thought was that's a lie. My second was obviously when did Verizon start obeying the FCC. | |
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xyar
Premium
join:2001-06-21
Portland, OR
| Re: no wayyyyyyyyyyyy??????? They are probably referring to 75% of the US population. The vast majority of our 287 million people live in urban areas. Most urban areas of a large size have broadband available in most parts. What incentive does the phone company have to spend tons of money to install DSL service for a tiny town of 1309 people, like Grantville, GA, that's nearly 50 miles from any major city? It's not gonna happen anytime soon. For some who are REALLY out in the middle of nowhere, wire-based broadband will probably NEVER become available unless the towns themselves or some sort of co-op set something up.
Nevertheless, deployment takes time. I live in a city of nearly 75,000 that's near Portland, Oregon, and the majority of our city JUST NOW got access to AT&T Broadband, though we've had access to DSL for years. It takes time, but only for areas that will have enough customers.
Ryan | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
·Comcast
| And your point shows exactly why we need somebody to get these broadband companies to invest in rural America, or we will be creating a whole new "digital divide" I live in a rural, wine growing area, just outside Ukiah, CA, which is appx.15000 people, and Adelphia just introduced Cable Modems here(I got one, bye bye dialup!!!!!) I don't know what got them to do it, but now the whole of Mendocino County has Digital Cable, and most of it has access to cable modems. It is a godsend for this area, since most of the county can't get DSL or Wireless broadband. | |
| Rammer
Premium
join:2001-03-06
clubs:
·AT&T Southeast
| A T T is the problem in our area why we dont have access to cable modems they say they are willing to open up there lines in news articles but when it comes down too the real thing then they back out the cheap &&&&&&&&
i want mention the other cable co that wanted too upgrade the lines for them so they could access the broadband too the people and A TT TOLD THEM TOO TAKE A HIKE
so thats the way it is here SUNDAY APRIL 14 2002.... | |
| | 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| Re: A T T There are only two constructive solutions: harass and terrorize. Focus all of your anger you can summon upon the top guy that controls your cable system. Also form a satellite retail company and only advertise in areas they service. They will really get ticked off about that and probably take that personally. Don't be polite, be ruthless. They have the advantage that they are an unregulated abusive monopoly. You have the advantage that you don't have any rules of ethics you have to uphold. | |
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pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA | Re: A T T said by 2farfromCO:
You have the advantage that you don't have any rules of ethics you have to uphold.
I think that only applies to criminals , conservative Republicans, and radical mullahs. | |
| | | | 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| Re: A T T I'm not talking about laws. I'm talking about ethics. I'll give you an example. Time Warner cable as I've said before blackmailed us over a contract for 4 years just to get cable modems and digital cable. Our cable commission and Time Warner made a "gentlemen's agreement" not to negotiate this in public. This is clearly in Time Warner's advantage(not discussing public). I told my city officials that I thought they were the biggest suckers in front of them at city council meetings because they wouldn't negotiate in publice. To hell the an agreement. Was it a legal document?? I hope it was. Break the legal document. Entice them to sue you. The last thing these cable monopolies want is to get in a David-Goliath trial of the century that makes them look like Nazis. They are blackmailing you. You should blackmail them back. It's just that simple. You also harass and terrorize those who are accountable for their policies. What other recourse do you have. If they want these policies, they better be prepared to defend them and accept public backlash.
This is the system we have where we are ruled by totalitarian dictatorship. Until we successfully revolt and bring infrastructure in control of the people, this is all we can do. | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE | That number is too low quote:
with 85% able to receive Satellite internet service
It has to be a higher percent than that.
--
"Death is irrelevant" | |
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Rivian
Rivian
join:2001-08-13
clubs: | Re: That number is too low Satellite IS NOT BROADBAND!!!
And any one who tries to say otherwise is a friggin idiot. | |
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MrTangent
join:2001-12-28
Earth
| Re: That number is too low said by Rivian:
Satellite IS NOT BROADBAND!!!
And any one who tries to say otherwise is a friggin idiot.
Umm.. besides the latency and usually poor uploads why would you consider satellite not to be broadband? I have 512kbps download DSL service and both the Pegasus and DirecWay systems offer the same speeds (if not faster under peak conditions). If my dsl is considered "broadband" then by the same definitions both of those satellite systems would meet the prerequisites. Personally I think the term broadband is over-used as well. I think 100-1000 kbps is more like "middleband" and when you get over the 1 mbps range you're talking broadband. | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska
| quote:
Satellite IS NOT BROADBAND!!!
And any one who tries to say otherwise is a friggin idiot.
Ok, I won't argue about that. I am just saying I am positive that it is available to more than 85%. One more thing, making a statement like that is called trolling. Please don't do it. It only starts arguments.
--
"Death is irrelevant"
[text was edited by author 2002-04-14 17:44:06] | |
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TZi
k1L0
join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| said by ArchAngel21x:
quote:
with 85% able to receive Satellite internet service
It has to be a higher percent than that.
That low percentage probably takes into account those people who live in Alaska, Hawaii or Puerto Rico and residents of apartments or covenant controlled communities that prohibit satellite dishes.
--
Miami Hurricanes #1 (we're back!) | |
| | td2341
join:2002-02-17
Alexandria, VA
| The 85% satellite capability relects those that have no view of the southern sky due to living in wooded areas (with the offending trees beyond the owners control), and the wrong side of apartment buildings and mountain valleys.
Also agree with those posters about satellite's very limited broadband capacity. | |
| 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| I want to know what's the percentage of people who can get broadband for $50/month or less. My city doesn't count. Cable modems in my city cost $85/month, yet people would think we have broadband. You people whine about a ONE TIME $200 purchase for a Wi-Fi modem, yet seem to think my outrage about a monthly $85 rate is no big deal. As far as I'm concernce, the only reason I can get broadband is because I ruthlessly terrorized(and am damn proud of it too) Bob McAnn the Time Warner dictator in my city until he submitted. That's the way Republicans think the capitalistic system is supposed to work so I'm happy to oblige. | |
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See 8 replies to this post | |
YearZero
Heavy Metal Bakesale
Premium
join:2001-08-28
| Nagging non stop I nagged telcos and cable for about the last two years non stop to try and get something here. I use to be out in the cold until last week when I was able to get mediacom cable...Verizon was and still has no offering here and continues to drag there ass but that is alright with me..I at least have some form of broadband and so far it kick ass..Granted I don't know how much nagging would actually do since companies like Verizon look at the bottom line and decided not to open a market here due to the fact that it might not be profitable. | |
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See 11 replies to this post | |
bewgrvewbln
@Dial1.Chic | years we haven't had broadband in this suburb for years, the phone company says were off the radar. Yeah right, its like the service area has expanded at all. | |
| 
IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
| The West Los Angeles Disgrace..... The Los Angeles City Market is a disgrace. If you haven't heard yet from other threads, Adelphia acquired Century Cable's assets 5 years ago, and we were promised "new advanced services" such as digital cable and cable modem service within one year of this acquisition.....
Fast forward 5 years.....
We've were only able to get Digital Cable less than a year ago, and as lml2000 explains in other threads, it's only "baby" digital....so it's a cop out. Heck, my bud lml2000 still can't even get that!
Just let me mention here first... Verizon refused to put in a CEV for our area despite the pleading of our homeowner's association. So at least Verizon's being honest about not providing DSL at all for the last 5 years.... Can't say the same for Adelphia's broadband offering.
We still can't get cable modem service either! The saga began with this promise letter 5 years ago, and right up until this past April 1st when Adelphia assured our homeowners association that Cable Modem Service would be available. April Fools!!!!....and the joke's been on us for 5 years...
See this article:
»www.latimes.com/business/la-0000···16.story
And look at Adelphia's rollout of Cable Modems compared to the other franchises.....disgraceful....
For 4 of those 5 years, the only thing Adelphia sent us was a higher bill, with a new logo, for the same damn analog service as Century provided. We still had one HBO, one Showtime, One The Movie Channel, One Skinimax, snow, static, and all.....and no cable modem service.
"But exciting new products are on the horizon!" Adelphia maintained....
What a ripoff... Adelphia got nearly five free years out of us without really making any visible infrastructure or service improvements....Oh yeah....they blamed the Department of Water and Power for that in the article, the first excuse anyone actually heard from them in the "five years of when we're damn good and ready" attitude.... What a bunch of lame-o's.... What's happening now serve's 'em right. I feel bad for the people who will get canned... They're nice people and they've been very helpful...Their managers of course will stay on or get golden parachutes....typical.
No first tier market's wait for broadband has been longer or more duplicitously disgraceful than ours. Now with all this new hub bub, does anyone here actually believe that Adelphia still cares about providing CM service to an area that might be on the auction block soon? This is the city of Los Angeles for crying out load, and if you read the Adelphia article in the LA Times, you will see that they are clearly a second tier provider and that they have no business being in the Los Angeles market. They don't have the cash, they don't have the connections, and we don't have the services as a result. Good riddance, Adelphia. Go back to PA and stay there.
All I know is that when Rigas the bible thumper showed up and pulled the spice channel and playboy from the lineup (both of which generate considerable revenue for the DirectTV people), I knew we were in for a long and scary ride. Not to mention that we're only 20 minutes from the porn capital of the world, the grand San Fernando Valley.....sigh....
It's hopeless... Our new "promised" rollout date as the article states is May 15.... We'll see Adelphia.... now you've made a promise to hundreds of thousands of your subscribers publicly.... none of whom can get Cable Modem service in the Los Angeles market you control.... This will be your own undoing....
--
A proud card carrying member of the Right Wing Conspiracy
[text was edited by author 2002-04-14 22:47:26] | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
Blizzard0
join:2000-06-27
Beverly Hills, CA
| Boston Urban Charlestown??? I know this part of the city well the problem with the fiber under the harbor is a joke. They are in the same boat i was in when i lived in a similar neighborhood. the problem is half the city of charlestown is ghetto the other half is well off individuals.. seperated by a bunch of streets that lead no where to say the least.
But thats the issue the cable company and verizon could pipe them dsl or cable easily the money for deployment will negate any profits for atleast 5 years. The rich their won't get it strictly because the other half is poor and they don't wanna loose money...
Cry me a river people this happens in alot of boston because most of the population is of certain "uneducated" races... Im sure it happens in many big cities. If this lady wants broadband tell her to move from her 500 k condo to beacon hill where they are 400 k ... Then get broadband..
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I too was a attbi hater but now with this new service my connection is to slow to complain ... | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Re: Boston Urban Charlestown??? "uneducated" races-that's kinda racist, don't ya think? | |
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Blizzard0
join:2000-06-27
Beverly Hills, CA | Re: Boston Urban Charlestown??? yes i am part of that so called group , plain and simple thats how they see it and it really is unfair.
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I too was a attbi hater but now with this new service my connection is to slow to complain ... | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Yes it is, especially coming from Boston. The first all Black Regiment to fight in the Civil War was put together in Boston, it was what the movie "Glory" was based on. | |
| 
roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Not just ILECs, MSOs, and local govts... In some urban areas, such as Atlanta and (especially) Houston, broadband availability in some areas is spotty because of poor, self-serving decisions to by apartment owners and condo associations (i.e., choosing "alternatives" to the local ILEC and MSO.) Never mind that these sort of choices are starting to backfire as people become more savvy and start asking very pointed questions (and start to build resources like the web site whose URL is in my sig.)
That said, some of the more significant broadband holes are in very large, urban cities, such as L.A. and Boston. Very large cities tend to have older phone and cable plant which takes much more time and money to upgrade than plant in urban areas (time/safety restrictions on when work can be done, plant in conduits that can't handle more, etc.) I've seen contractors for Charter and some of its predecessors upgrade small towns in three to six months but seen AT&T's Atlanta area upgrades drag on for five years -- and they still aren't done yet. Let's not even talk about AT&T in much of the Bay Area or Chicago or the Cablevision/AT&T disaster in (the city of) Boston...
-SC
--
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ | |
| 
Cheetah9
join:2001-01-07
Bethel Park, PA
| But,..what if your got DSL avaliable, and the....
Here's my situation:
I've been on-line for 17 years. I've endured the progression from 300 baud to current broadband speeds, lost E-mail, dropped connections, large downloads that fail when their 98% complete, inability to get on-line when I want, slow connections to the backbone, a bitchy wife when she encounters ISP related problems, etc., etc, etc.
I've had my current provider for over 6 years now and their service has been close to flawless. My Web site has never been down (to my knowledge). I've RARELY not been able to log on when I want, anytime day or night. I consistently get 50k connects.
In a nutshell, I rarely even give my ISP a thought, because I don't have to.
The choice of Broadband in my area is either Adelphia or Verizon (or one of it's "partners").
I've had ongoing Cable TV problems and have finally given up complaining to Adelphia about their local infrastructure problems.
Verizon services my area through a combination of copper and fiber. There also seems to be some kind of line concentrator involved. So, you can guess what they told me when I inquired about DSL.
They still want me to "sign up" however, even though they tell me not to expect anywhere near the advertised speed.
Anyways, sure, I could get DSL. However, neither company has a history of "service" that would make me want to give up my trusty 56k. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
abrody
join:2000-07-20
Silver Spring, MD
·RCN CABLE
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Here DC has multiple phone companies but what good If you want anything faster than 608 128, you have to pay $65 a month or more. Worse yet, DSL services are only offered on a contractual 1 year basis that if you cancel you are penalized the cost of a full year of service. The one exception is Verizon's service which by all means is even more expensive than your third party DSL provider. With the financial condition of Covad in question, and the fact @home has already had to migrate to Comcast, and the recent ruling allowing Cable to remain a monopoly for those areas it serves, you are left with a huge digital divide even for those areas with service because of the high costs. Try getting support from Comcast or Verizon. It is like trying to get support from Microsoft! The only way broadband is going to work is if it is government subsidized and better than 608 128 service is offered to everyone for $40 a month or less with no penalty for cancellation. Currently paying $59 a month for Cable internet alone, and not getting Cable TV because it would cost me an additional $33 a month for basic service. | |
| 
odnc
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| roll your own Why do these people whine so much about being left out?
If a group of Swede's can dig up their neighbourhood for a private fibre network why won't these Americans do the same?
What happened to our society's "can-do" attitude?
Have we become that sipritually flacid in this country? | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
sayocom
join:2002-04-17
Indialantic, FL
| Where are other black holes I am trying to identify where these black holes are. We want to build a Wireless braodband Company to address these.
The cable and DSL providers only want to tell where they are--not where they are not.
Specifics would help.
Thanks
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| | jims2321
join:2000-04-05
Oviedo, FL | Re: Where are other black holes how about 80% of Central Florida.
Jim | |
| | sayocom
join:2002-04-17
Indialantic, FL | Oviedo is very close to Orlando. Are DSL and/or cable modem not available? Who is you telco?
Thanks, | |
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Rome wasn't built in a day