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VOIP Gaining Ground
Would you buy it?
(old news - 04:35PM Tuesday Apr 16 2002)
tags: competition · business
Voice over IP has been one of the added services ISP marketing heads and number crunchers have been fantasizing about for years. On the other hand, the concept could be the Telco's worst nightmare, provided the technology performs. Several competitors are finally bringing VOIP, in a stable form, to market with a somewhat sane price tag.

Most of these units have been in beta all over the country for the past several years. We took part in a Bazillion beta last year, and although it was short lived thanks to Bazillion's rather ugly demise, the short experience did provide some decent impressions of a technology that should be fairly successful once it can shake off the initial kinks.

The small black one buttoned unit we trialed had some slight latency issues and initially resembled an evening news correspondent's afghanistan report more than a short distance Voice over IP solution. But with several tweaks, the system worked admirably for a first or second generation device, though the delay was never completely dealt with. Most of the problems we experienced have been solved however, primarily through the development of Session Initiation Protocol, allowing calls to be routed more efficiently. You can read more about it here.

There are several services coming to market. One of the newer entries is Vonage, who offer both a $20 per month, 500 minute package or a $40 per month unlimited service package. According to this user at Slashdot, the quality is indistinguishable from a regular phone. The package comes will call waiting, call forwarding, caller ID, voicemail, and the area code of your choice. Time is running an article that discusses their first impressions of the service as well, and are likewise impressed with the quality.

We've discussed other VOIP attempts, and the reaction from users is generally not very admirable. When we made mention of DirecTV's entry into the VOIP market, the primary concern was one of quality. Initial experiences with the technology have been very sour, something the technology will need to overcome during it's entry phase.

Certainly not to be left out, keep in mind the Baby Bells will certainly be investing in the technology (most already have). They'll certainly come out swinging to protect their bread and butter market.

VOIP should find itself a niche if the quality is high and the costs are low. Once those two problems are met, its biggest stumbling point will be that you can't dial 911, and once VOIP leaves the realm of pipe dream, it should bring us one step closer to the holy grail of two way video. For additional information on VOIP technology, you may want to examine VOIP calculator, this overview, and this section at protocols.com.

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Forums » VOIP Gaining Ground
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damonlab
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Detroit, MI
clubs:

No I wouldn't buy it.

"VOIP should find itself a niche if the quality is high and the costs are low. Once those two problems are met, its biggest stumbling point will be that you can't dial 911"

I would not want a phone that I could not dial 911 with. I would be inclined to use VOIP only if it was free or dirt cheap (remember when they had the free buddyphone and dialpad type programs?). I still would not give up my land line despite the fact I despise telephone companies so much.

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:

Re: No I wouldn't buy it.

If it's a local phone service, the FCC requires that there be an active '911'.
dbarc

join:2000-01-22
Fort Wayne, IN

said by damonlab:

I would not want a phone that I could not dial 911 with. I would be inclined to use VOIP only if it was free or dirt cheap (remember when they had the free buddyphone and dialpad type programs?). I still would not give up my land line despite the fact I despise telephone companies so much.
I'd take it (and will look into that company mentioned). It should be marketed like the earlier cable services and how ISDN is still marketed by the RBOC's as for use as a second but not primary line. The VoIP services don't have 911, and neither they nor the ISDN services generally have service during power failures. Even that is almost a moot point with RBOC's deploying fiber to remotes in apartment buildings etc, as with a long power failure, the batteries will eventually give out. With just about everyone having cell service these days, I really don't see a problem with it being your primary service as you have both 911 service and service if no power. (My primary service happens to be ISDN, though it is connected through a UPS)

martissimo

join:2001-12-01
Las Vegas, NV
clubs:

Re: No I wouldn't buy it.

which begs the question, why pay for it...

Don't get me wrong if it was a full fledged alternative to traditional phone services the 20$ a month for 500 minutes or 40$ for unlimited might fly. If i have to maintain another standard phone line or cell phone in unison with the VoIP it is no longer saving me any money, its costing me more probably.

VoIP just doesn't give me the reliability i would need to switch to it, my cable modem has far from perfect uptime and it wont work when the power is out. I mean how frustrating would it be if you lose cable connection and because you use VoIP as your primary service you cant call to report it.

the only people i could see this as usefull too are people who run-up enormous phone bills really (though that is certainly not a market to casually dismiss), neat stuff... but not quite ready for the masses
Kip patterson
Premium
join:2000-10-23
Columbus, OH

Well, there is a fix. Install lawn mower engines and generators at each cable power supply. Hook them up to the local gas company.

Don't laugh - 381 are being installed in Columbus even as we speak by the Insight folks - and it looks really weird to see a gas meter on a power supply.

They are even putting them on platforms on poles.

Kip

Harddrive
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT

I put VoIP systems in at a enterprise level. 911 isn't a problem for the business because they have the flexability to put CO Trucks in for a route pattern for 911 calls. The voice systems sends the 911 to a trunk which is ID'd at the emergency call center for its location. The hardest part of the VoIP for home users will be the 911 feature. The only way I think they can do it is if they have static ip's for all the phones and link the ip to each person's phone. So if someone dials 911, a data base pulls up the ip address then looks to see who has it then routes the call to the emergency call center. Otherwise you'll have the police and fire show up at your local CO.
--
Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered, for just such an emergency.-Foghorn Leghorn

Correction

@bellsouth.net

While they are forced to market this as a "second line" solution - there's a VERY simple way around the 911 issue. The primary telephone line to any residence, whether connected or not MUST be able to dial 911. So, if you really don't need any other local features (no power dialing etc) other than 911 - cancel your phone line keep a few old phones around connected to your "disconnected" phone line to dial 911 with. I would not be shocked to see an analog port on future models which will kick out 911 calls - ostensibly for hooked up lines, but on a practical basis you could certainly connect it to your "disconnected" line.
deejaycez

join:2002-04-12
Bronxville, NY

Even if you could...

Call anywhere, anytime, anyone Nationwide for a flat fee? With all of the features of your regular phone and then some as part of that flat fee?

I definitely would, check out Vonage - »www.vonage.com and read this article on Time about them:

»www.time.com/time/magazine/artic···,00.html

highjinx

join:2000-10-12
Alturas, CA


A little guess work for the future

quote:
If it's a local phone service, the FCC requires that there be an active '911'.
NO problem. ADSL as a product lends itself nicely to an IP Telephony consumer solution that is 911 capable. Anything IP enabled (phone, computer, PS2 or XBox, etc.) will be networked to a gateway. This router/gateway box will know whenever someone dials any number but 911, the call will route via IP to either the PSTN or another IP enabled phone set. If someone picks up a phone and dials 911 in the home, the gateway’s call manager will route 911 calls over the POTS line. Problem taken care of.

Good or bad, the RBOX are chopping at the bit to deploy VoIP/IP Telephony (some of you know the difference) to the consumer market. They know that this is where their next vertical market will come (sort of like caller ID, but with better margins) and are investing today to roll this out soon. This is one of the main reasons why they're so desperate to get into LD (they want to carry the traffic end to end) and take out the middle man....err can you say Tauzin Dingell!!!

Now for some fun at guessing what kind of consumer packages will be out there.

Starter Package
So lets say for $109.95 monthly you get one line with up to 128k/1.5M ADSL service.
2 Virtual lines (changeable in real-time via RBOX website), 2 Integrated email and voicemail boxes (voicemail in your Outlook inbox and vise versa), 2 hour monthly gaming subscription, 2 free VoD, 100Mb Home page, Caller ID, call return, call forwarding, call screen, speed calling, blah, blah, etc.
All IP to PSTN calls are 5 cents / minute (with 250 free LD minutes /month)
All IP to IP calls are 5 cents /minute (250 free minutes /month)

Premium Package
So lets say for $229.95 monthly you get one line with 384k/1.5-6M ADSL service.
6 Virtual lines (changeable in real-time via RBOX website), 6 Integrated email, voice, & video mail Boxes, video chat (with other RBOX sub’s), unlimited gaming subscription, 8 free VoD movies, conference calling (up to six IP or 3 PSTN), 200 Mb Home page, caller ID, call return, call forwarding, call screen, speed calling, blah, blah, etc.
All IP to PSTN calls are 5 cents /minute (500 free LD minutes /month)
All IP to IP calls are 3 cents /minute (500 free minutes /month)

Can you blame me for trying to have a little fun???

HJ
[text was edited by author 2002-04-16 18:55:51]

72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA

Re: A little guess work for the future

said by highjinx:
This is one of the main reasons why they're so desperate to get into LD (they want to carry the traffic end to end) and take out the middle man

If your building a solid VOIP network you need that very thing, our best expierances with VOIP carriers have been the ones who had the most control over their networks. It is hard to fire someone in another company who is screwing things up repeatedly, however if someone in your company is screwing things up you can send them packing rather easily. It's easier to control latency on your equipment.
--
»www.geocities.com/anubisracing

highjinx

join:2000-10-12
Alturas, CA

Re: A little guess work for the future

quote:
It's easier to control latency on your equipment.
...Don't forget it's cheaper too!!!

HJ
Jacob

join:2000-11-28
Los Gatos, CA

It sure is...

It sure is "taking off!" I have an ip phone at my house, given to me by one of my employers.

72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA

Not yet, not in the next 5 years

Title says it all, VOIP is not ready for the masses. It is being pushed as the new sexy technology companies are trying to make work no matter what. Where i work we do loads of VOIP and we have kicked several providers to the curb because they just suck, the downtime on our VOIP products compared to the circuit switched network is vastly more. I have circuit switched DS3's that haven't seen downtime in the 2 1/2 years I have been working here. I think Global uses VOIP and it sounds like ass, reason I think this is that you can hear the background noise go away then when someone starts talking again it returns. It does not sound good at all. I'll keep my POTS line thank you.
--
»www.geocities.com/anubisracing

ShadowMastr
Master Of All Shadows

join:2001-09-01
Fort Pierce, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

I DO have VoIP

We have been using VoIP with Mpower Communications for almost a year at the office. We have a 6 line system, the usual fax and alarm lines (which are on POTS), and the 'free' 1.5 SDSL data/Internet connection. Voice quality has been great, only had a couple people tell us the volume of our voice is a little low. We did experience 2 outages to the phone service, one on a Saturday when office wasnt open, and once on a week day, both times back up in about an hour. It cut our phone bill by about 40%, the internet speed has been great, good enough for the handful of remote users to be logged in to our Win2k server at the same time with no problems. It's not quite good enough to run a Game server like Unreal Tournament, Tribes2, etc....but.....not supposed to at the office anyway....

Now if they can just manage to stay in business like they say they are going to, then we're happy campers....

hullboy

join:2000-12-21
San Jose, CA

Traditional phone line still required...

So the requirements for this service (Vonage) are a high speed data connection with at least 90k upload speed. If you're a DSL user, you will have to have a standard phone line anyway. I called the Vonage customer center and asked them a few questions. They're currently positioning this new service as a second line service because of the need for the HSD connection and the unavailability of 911 service.

You know, I think I would still like to try it. the success of a service like this will change the voice telco market by offering an alternative - yet still competitive - voice service that will help to level the playing field and inspire competition. In the end, the consumer wins!

macyh
Ex-Isp
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-24
Medina, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..

VoIP works in large & mid biz now, will scale down

VoIP has quietly come of age this year. It works. We have it. We use it. And we're preparing to move all our phone traffic to it shortly. But it's not just about early adoptors now.

A surprising number of large and mid size end users have it in place today. However, it's been a stealth introduction rather than the big bang the computer technology magazines want to talk about it.

Large businesses have been quietly using VoIP on their networks for a couple of years. They just connnect up the router POTS or E&M ports to the PBX's now in place. Some PBX's now have VoIP telephony cards that replace an existing outside truck card. Cisco, Avaya, Nortel, Telred, Intertel and others have complete VoIP systems that entirely replace PBX's.

Vonage has the right model for small customers, use it as an adjunct service, let the customer pick their equipment. There's even better equipment on the market now to use with it (routers with POTS interfaces built in). A new generation of low cost IP phones will arrive shortly that will add to the fun. Adoption will be slow, steady and there will be small and large players.

Mpower has it right for mid size businesses, packaged and working end to end, connected to your existing system using POTS interfaces. IP telephone systems are now coming onto the market that will leverage the service.

There are inexpensive low end routers with VoIP for ADSL users coming to the mass market. Look for Linksys, Zyxel or someone similar to introduce a VoIP unit soon.

The really, really neat part about all this is that the hardware will interoperate between vendors, telco's and carrier's very early on. The adoption of standards has been one of the biggest developments in the past year, more than anything, this is what will make VoIP really useful to most end users. Watch and see.
--
Macy Hallock APK Net, Inc. Cleveland, Ohio
jp245

join:2002-02-15
Brenham, TX

Re: VoIP works in large & mid biz now, will scale down

The cisco AVVID is awsome, PBX's will be a thing of the past in a few years. Why use the pstn if your company already has an IP infrustructure in place?

macyh
Ex-Isp
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-24
Medina, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..

Re: VoIP works in large & mid biz now, will scale down

said by jp245:
The cisco AVVID is awsome, PBX's will be a thing of the past in a few years.
You betcha. That's what we have, a Cisco 7835 IP PBX. They've recently upgraded the 7750 for small/mid business and it's just as awesome.

Some of the newer small and standalone VoIP products are pretty slick as well. This is getting exciting. Now all I have to do is figure out how to make a buck doing it...
--
Macy Hallock APK Net, Inc. Cleveland, Ohio
jp245

join:2002-02-15
Brenham, TX

Re: VoIP works in large & mid biz now, will scale down

said by macyh:


Now all I have to do is figure out how to make a buck doing it...

yep, when we installed all the IP phones in the admirals club for American Airlines, all the CEO's of corparations that used them were really impressed. That is immediatly what they started saying "how can I use this to make money?"
Beeper
Part Of The Problem

join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
Try making a phone call when the network is down. What's more likely to fail, the internal network, or the PSTN?
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism.
richardak

join:2001-07-08
Seguin, TX

?catchy title?

does anyone else but me see just how stupid VOIP really is?

Let's see, first there is POTS, then you get the internet over that POTS line, then you make a call using the internet over that POTS line.

So you are now using the POTS line for what it was originally intended, but with A LOT of overhead.

I would never, ever, ever use my Internet connection to make a phone call. That is what the phone is for.

The analogy above really only applies to dial-up and DSL users. I have a Cable Modem, but I would still never use it for phone service.

akristov

join:2001-01-31
Tampa, FL
clubs:

Re: ?catchy title?

Let us consider this situation...

I have cable modem service provided by Time-Warner...

I cancel Verizon who I usually end up paying about $50-$60/month....

At that rate I usually don't spend a long time making long distance calls because of the cost...

Then I can save $10-$20/month and make unlimited long distance calls... And have all the snazzy features that I was to cheap to pay for in the past. I think that is sweet... I will leave a some phones around for the chance that I might have an emergency an need to 911 call. (Although, I have never had to call 911)

RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York


I, too have cable modem.. Luckily, its extremely reliable, and is a super connection with very low latency (OptimumOnline - Long Island, NY)... As far as 'excessive overhead', its not.. The service utilizes the G.729A voice encoder, which encodes at a mere 8kbps and sounds like a 32kbps bitstream.

Heres the math:

Vonage 500 minute plan: $19.95 month. 500 outgoing minutes anywhere in the country. Incoming, toll-free, and calls to other Vonage subscribers do not count towards 500 minutes. Additional minutes over 500 are billed at 4.9 cents / min. You get: Call Waiting, Call Waiting Caller ID, Voicemail with notification, 3-way calling, Call Forwarding (set & variable) all included.

My situation:
Verizon: $65.00 monthly
ECG Long Distance: $15-$20 monthly..

At the least, Im saving $60 a month after ditching Verizon and ECG, and the connection and quality of the calls is excellent using all my regular phones that were hooked up to my POTS line. There is no comparison between the quality of this service and computer based telephony such as Net2Phone or Netmeeting.. It sounds that much better.

Rick

[text was edited by author 2002-04-18 20:40:05]
2farfromCO7

join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI

The best deal might be the plug in the modem deal

The best deal might be the deal that Comcast and WideOpenWest deal where you plug the phone right in the modem. However, that would limit you to one phone. As the cordless phones with multiple handsets become more affordable, this will be a great deal. Of course, it will only be available in cities with great cable deals i.e. not Farmington, Farmington Hills, Novi, Livonia, and Redford.

akristov

join:2001-01-31
Tampa, FL
clubs:

Re: The best deal might be the plug in the modem deal

I think it would be easy enough to pull some copper to your NID from the cable modem and wire up the whole house.

kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

I have it and I love it :-)

I have Voice over IP. I am 19,000 feet from my CO. My work as a systems engineer requires that I be able to connect to work remotely....and IDSL is tooooo slow for remote control apps like PC Anywhere or DameWare. Mpower just started offering this service....For $349 a month...I get a full T1 and 4 phone lines with all sorts of custom features like caller ID, Voice Mail etc.

I absolutely love the service.

You CAN dial 911....I don't know why you wouldn't be able to, since the phone lines work exactly like analog POTS....the only difference being that your voice is packetized to the switch.

Technically, Mpower is supposed to give you 384K for data plus 32K X 4 for the phone lines. But Mpower has no way of throttling the T....so you essentially get the FULL T. When you use the phone, the bandwidth dynamically changes to Full T - 32K for each voice channel being used.

No bandwidth or other restrictions, since it is a business grade product.

The voice part of the service includes unlimited usage and calls within the Chicago LATA. (or any of the other Mpower markets you happen to be in)

If this service interests you, please let me know and help me earn a couple of bucks for my *expensive* college tuition

I went ahead and paid an extra 15 bucks for 3 additional IP Addresses so I can host my own servers, email, DNS etc.

The T1 line is not channelized like a traditional T...its the whole pipe going to the Mpower DSLAM retrofitted with T1 Cards instead of SDSL cards.....the DSL sends the voice traffic to the voice gateway and then on to the DMS500 and it sends the data traffic to the internet gateway.

The best part was...I didn't have to pay for CPE...NO CSU/DSU...they gave me this voice/data/gateway/router thing made by Adtran.

My initial thought was to have the Adtran in bridge mode so I can use my netopia router for port mapping etc.....but then I found out that the ADTRAN supports all advanced features found on DSL routers

It's great...I LOVE IT I LOVE IT I LOVE IT

-K
--
»www.kapilville.com
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::

72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA

Re: I have it and I love it :-)

Now that's nice and crap but not many of us here can afford 350 bucks a month for a service like that. The product you have is much different then what many are trying to do which is to replace bell. What you have is a Data CLEC, big difference.
--
»www.geocities.com/anubisracing
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:

Doesn't this describe Sprint ION???

Now defunct of course, but wasn't ION a package w/ upper limit ADSL and 2 to 4 VoIP lines (package dependent) including local and LD service???
smiley4me

join:2002-02-25
North York, ON

No more phone numbers

I use netmeeting with video almost every day, faster than traveling between floors! There is no way I am going to pay for something if I can just get it free over the internet. Nice try but I'm not going to buy it. Phone numbers are gone it is IP's all the way.

RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York

Vonage subscriber... No POTS

Just wanted to chime in that I signed up for the Vonage service several weeks ago, and its connected via my router to my Cable Modem connection and IS my primary line now.. Disconnected the incoming POTS line at the Demarc, plugged the ATA186 into a jack, and the whole apartment is connected to the ATA186.. The service has performed flawlessly for me, and have yet to experience any kind of latency issues, even at peak Internet times..

I 'almost' completely disconnected my primary POTS line - I ordered a temporary disconnect from Verizon @ $2.50/month, just in case the company doesn't quite make it.. Regardless, the POTS line isnt even hooked up, the 911 problem was easily corrected by programming the local # of my PD into Speed Dial #1 on all my phones, and I'm a happy camper.

Rick
--
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
Forums » VOIP Gaining Ground


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