page: 1 · 2  |
 
ramones74
Rock The Proverbial Casbah
join:2002-01-24
Mckeesport, PA | Jeez! I'm being serious here. Is this actually legal? I can't even see how it's legal to change your registry, much less this.
--
I'm not from Philly, but some say I'm blunt. | |
|  | 
PatientGuy
I'M Way Deep Into Nothing Special
Premium
join:2000-12-11
Arlington, VA
clubs:
| Re: Jeez! I've been searching for download sites looking for Radlight v3.03R5 (rl3r52.exe). I then have been E-mailing the sites asking them to remove Radlight from their servers. I urge others to do the same. If you find other sites that offer Radlight for download publish them here so I and others can E-mail them too. Let's start a peoples revolt against scumware!
webmaster@pcworld.com
kirschd@simtel.net | |
| | |
PatientGuy
I'M Way Deep Into Nothing Special
Premium
join:2000-12-11
Arlington, VA
clubs:
edited
| Negative Response from Simtel Complete text of an E-mail recieved from Simtel:
I suggest you read the email at our web site's forum area related to this.
RadLight is acting no differently than Ad-Aware is acting. Ad-Aware
removes Adware components with the user's permission. RadLight removes
Ad-Aware with the user's permission.
Seems fair to me.
Once RadLight added VERY clear announcements to their install process, the
decision here at Simtel.Net was to let their product stay.
When you can explain how RadLight's actions are more heinous than
Ad-Aware's, we'll rethink our position.
We believe in an informed user. Let the user decide: does he want
RadLight? Or Ad-Aware?
I for one am getting irritated at the publicity campaign being drummed up
by the Ad-Aware publishers, fighting back at a threat to their commercial
interests, and trying to force US into doing what they want. That could
be a far uglier trend than the piddling tempest in a teakettle between
RadLight and Ad-Aware.
Regards,
David
--
David Kirschbaum, Archivist for Simtel(tm)
Internet: kirschd@Simtel.Net »www.simtel.net/
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, F C. wrote:
> A program available for download from your service (rl3r52.exe) contains
> code that is malicious in nature.
> " Radlight v3.03R5 have included code that not only looks to
> see if the user has Ad-Aware or Ad-Aware Plus installed on their
> systems, but
> also will uninstall and delete every trace of Ad-Aware;"
>
> »www.technews.com/news/02/176075.html
> »www.lsfileserv.com/latest.html
>
> Distributing software that deletes other programs could set a bad
> precedent that could lead to a general deterioration of share/free ware.
> C-NET has removed it from there servers. I urge you to please do the
> same. Let's put a stop to this ugly trend before it gets started.
[text was edited by author 2002-04-24 11:32:04] | |
| | | | 
JYoung
G L 2814
join:2000-06-13
Sherman Oaks, CA
| Re: Negative Response from Simtel said by David Kirschbaum, Archivist for Simtel:
I for one am getting irritated at the publicity campaign being drummed up
by the Ad-Aware publishers, fighting back at a threat to their commercial
interests, and trying to force US into doing what they want. That could
be a far uglier trend than the piddling tempest in a teakettle between
RadLight and Ad-Aware.
Say what?????
I didn't have a problem with Simtel's response until I got to that bit.
Hello????
Lavasoft provides basic Adaware for free which gives you control over what programs you want installed on your pc and what information you want sent out. Adaware doesn't make you get rid of any software unless you tell it to remove it. Radlight doesn't allow you to use it's software unless Adaware is removed (isn't this the attitude that got Microsoft in court?).
It's obvious that Simtel doesn't get it. I checked and the latest version of Adaware that they have on their site is 3.6!
Add Simtel to my list of banned sites......
--
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, then repeat to yourself "it's just a show, I should really just relax" | |
| | | | | 
robnelle
Blowing Kisses To You All
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Indianapolis, IN
clubs:
| Re: Negative Response from Simtel Not only is the reply from 'Sin'tel asinine but they obviously can't handle the criticism from the endusers. Take a look at their forums: »216.194.92.96/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2
Notice they have deleted almost all of the negative posts said against them.Check out the post counts for the threads and then look at how many posts are actually in the threads.That's so sad. That is horrible PR!!!
--
Cool is the way of the walk(No I have no clue what that means) | |
| | | | BIGHUSKER
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN
| "When you can explain how RadLight's actions are more heinous than
Ad-Aware's, we'll rethink our position."
Any moron could explain this. The sole purpose of Ad-Aware is to remove spyware. Nobody downloads Ad-Aware without knowing what it does. It's purpose is made clear, and there are no "hidden features" that are unwanted or harmful.
Radlight is a DivX player, a freakin' movie player! People download it so they can watch movies encoded in the divX codec. Nobody would suspect it also functions as an application removal program. It doesn't matter if they tell the user about it in the License Agreement.
Running an intrusive feature that has nothing to do the functionality of the main program is severely different than running Ad-Aware. Ad-Aware is what it's advertised as, nothing more, and nothing less. That is the difference. It's disturbing and disgusting that a major company would take this stance. I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass.
It's comparing apples to oranges, and it doesn't match up. This guy is either in bed with Radlight's creators or severely challenged in the logic department. | |
| |
PatientGuy
I'M Way Deep Into Nothing Special
Premium
join:2000-12-11
Arlington, VA
clubs:
| Igor Janos Caves In! It seems that the growing controversy and the action of C-Net has forced Igor "RadScorpion" Janos into admitting that his programs deleting Ad-Aware was a very bad idea. Read his public (qualified) apology here:
»216.194.92.96/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=226
C-Net is the real winner here. They have shown a concern for the public interest and have gained in public trust. On the other hand Simtel's David Kirschbaum's "all's fair in war" attitude I find disturbing. | |
| | |
ramones74
Rock The Proverbial Casbah
join:2002-01-24
Mckeesport, PA
| Re: Igor Janos Caves In! Man, that guy is a jackass! I read that posting and he doesn't really apologize for anything. He's trying to backpeddle and act like he did what he did to prove a point and blah, blah, blah. Just like in many other forums here at DSL, it seems to be about a person that knows what's best for us. I mean, I certainly can't think for myself. Thanks for telling me what to think and how Adaware is hurtful to me. You jerkoff. Mark my words. If I ever see you in person, I will kick you in the nuts. Obviously, most who use Adaware are a little more aware of what goes on on the internet (as opposed to, say, some AOL user who thinks he has the only way to cennect to webmd). However, what happens when software is produced that wipes out programs from the PC of Joe Sixpack and they don't know what the hell's going on. I read up on what's going on the internet because I choose to. People shouldn't HAVE to.
--
I'm not from Philly, but some say I'm blunt. | |
| | | looser
join:2001-02-04
La Mesa, CA | Re: Getting Old... They do tell you.....it's all in the legal disclaimer they have, just read the few thousand words and it's in there. So if you install it you cant sue them, because you agreed to the terms of the disclaimer. | |
| | | | | | | 
Brent24
@130.14.x.x
| Re: Getting Old... ======================================================
just because they buried the wording somewhere in 2point font
======================================================
It isn't buried in a 2point font. It is all alone on a single screen with HUGE BOLD BLACK letters saying:
--------------------------------
"IMPORTANT: You have to uninstall Ad-Aware before using RadLight"
If it is found on the system it will be removed !!!
--------------------------------
There is a "back", "next" and "cancel" button at the bottom. You have the opportunity to choose which button you want to click.
I do not agree with his "tactics", but they are perfectly acceptable to me. His software IS FREE. If you had to pay for it, it would be a whole other story.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it 
Thanks for listening. | |
| | | | | salahx
join:2001-12-03
Saint Louis, MO
| Informed consent is not sufficient It doesn't matter if is on a 50-ft billboard, with multi-coloring blinking lights, and 100 100db speakers. The program is Behaving Badly
"IMPORTANT: You have to uninstall Ad-Aware before using RadLight" - that is questionable but tolerable.
"If it is found on the system it will be removed !!!" - that part IS NOT
NO APPLICATION, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD BE TOUCHING OTHER APPLICATIONS
Even if there were technical reasons the application was incompatible with another, application don't put a warning 'If you proceed, this application will uninstall XXX". The installer should return an error "This application is not compatible with XXX. Installation has stopped. Please fix problem, and then run Install again"
Three reasons why:
You application is a GUEST on MY COMPUTER. Looked under various version of Windows, the icons are called 'My Computer', 'My Network Places'. and so forth. My house. My rules. Don't like it? Don't enter. The installer can always quit.
Furthermore, is the application really that smart? Just look at certain broadband-providers 'install software' automatically that puts on who-knows-what crap which (all to often) usually winds up blowing up the machine 3 months later and cause the user to pay $25 for OEM tech support so they can say 'run the restore CD'. Sure, I could Ad-Aware to disable the 'bundled software' that came with the offending application. Or maybe some other application that added some 'bundled software'. However, THAT application touched it, and broke it. 'The last one who touched it gets to fix it'.
And though that EULA MIGHT protect the owners from CIVIL damages, there are state and federal laws against certain categories of malware, one may very well interpret this kind of activity a 'Trojan Horse' - the application might very well violate one of them. and the EULA does nothing for CRIMINAL damages. Even then, at least ONE AV vendor put in Gator as a Trojan Horse. Having an application on a major AV vendors detection list isn't so good for sales.
The summary:
1) Its my computer
2) The application isn't smart enough. Its bad programming.
3) The EULA means squat to state and federal DA's. The application may find its way on Symantec's, McAfee/Network Associates, or Trend Micro's pattern detection list.
This bad programming design to check for Ad-Aware prior to install. If one really feels that is necessary, print an error, then stop. There NO reason for the installer to facilitate the uninstall of another vendor's program. It is arrogant to do so. | |
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Achtzehn
join:2002-04-14
San Luis Obispo, CA | *agrees 100%* | |
| | wiley post$
join:2002-01-13
who cares
edited
| Perhaps Radlights creators spent one night consuming too many pan galctic gargle blasters..........heh heh
[text was edited by author 2002-04-24 21:11:37] | |
| 
MortySnerd
join:2001-07-26
Mclean, VA
| sigh.... dot bomb already! When will all these stupid "Companions" like SaveNow and Gator go bankrupt? Even if morons are clicking on their "Special" offers, is anyone really buying the products that are advertised?? If not, then I hope that it is only a matter of time until they are out of cash. Seriuosly, how do these programs stay around? | |
| 
shamrin
join:2001-01-08
India
clubs:
| No contrition from the author... There's a pretty interesting (but bizarre) explanation of all this at the radlight sight (»www.radlight.com). The author is quite unrepentant. "I as the author of RadLight am sorry for users being scared of word "spyware" but I don't feel sorry for any uninstalled copy of
program whose point is TO KILL." (referring to adaware).
sch | |
| |
ramones74
Rock The Proverbial Casbah
join:2002-01-24
Mckeesport, PA
| Re: No contrition from the author... checked out that article...man, is that guy a jerkoff. I love how he refers to spyware as "helpware" and insists it helps you shop. Just one more useless turd that says people shouldn't think for themselves. I'd like to stab him with a dull spoon.
--
I'm not from Philly, but some say I'm blunt. | |
| 
WildGod
God Is Dead
Premium
join:2002-01-30
NYC
edited
| Getting out of Hand! What happened to our rights? These companies have no right to come into my pc and remove what I willingly and knowingly installed on my pc. Simple solution : Goodbye Radlight! While congress continues to discuss filesharing with the big media conglomerates they wont take a minute of their time to pass laws banning spam and the type of behavior discussed in this article.
I have said this numerous times in these forums and I'll say it again
Keep your money hungry hands off my PC.
IT'S MY PC, MY AD-AWARE
This is the same as a company coming into my house and disabling the security system I installed.
I smell class action lawsuit here.
Can you imagine if Microsoft where to uninstall any non-Microsoft products off your PC simply because they hampered the functionality of their own software?
When will it end?
I understand companies have to get revenue in order to stay in business but I think it's time they found a new unintrusive way to advertise to us. What ever happened to banner ads? Unintrusive and I didnt really mind them. These companies wont listen to the consumer.
WE DONT WANT POP-UPS OR POP-UNDERS, FLASH ADVERTISING, BACK BUTTON HIJACKING OR FAKE SYSTEM MESSAGES!!!
--
AOL DSL SUCKS
[text was edited by author 2002-04-24 10:02:20]
[text was edited by author 2002-04-24 10:10:02] | |
| | 
richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
|  Re: Getting out of Hand!
"*Digital Rights Management (Security). You agree that in order to protect the integrity of content and software protected by digital rights management ("Secure Content"), Microsoft may provide security related updates to the OS Components that will be automatically downloaded onto your computer. These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer. If we provide such a security update, we will use reasonable efforts to post notices on a web site explaining the update."
In other words, you agree to let Microsoft download software that can disable things on your computer. It doesn't matter that they will make a effort to tell you about it. All you know is now something doesn't work & you had no say in the matter. It was done "automatically" | |
| | |
PhatBastard
@nc.cha | Re: Getting out of Hand! You can disable this option. Every version of Windows can disable auto updates. If you cant find it. Go do the registry.
"The easiest things in life are all to often mistaken and the most difficult!" Author.. Phat Bastard | |
| | bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon VoiceWing
| Virtual War is coming to your computer SOON!! This whole thing about spyware is getting ridiculous. Now the spyware and removal proggys are fighting each other to the death.
Soon, every time you boot your computer it is going to go into battle mode for a few moments with adaware doing a battle mode update then taking on 3 or 4 spyware / malware proggys that are on your machine. You might even get to view the events with play by play.
Soon Microsoft will want to get involved in the war because there are a few bucks to be made and they will of course come out as the winner. | |
| |
soon
@bellsouth.net
| Re: Virtual War is coming to your computer SOON!! Coming soon? Already here MS has been killing others programs since day one.. Ever hear "Microsoft is not done until Lotus 123 will not run.."
Christopher Jones, Microsoft's vice president in charge of Windows, testified that Microsoft must reserve the right to design Windows in such a way that it impairs the operation of competing software -- all in the name of protecting the Windows consumer.
The New York Times points out that it was Jones who wrote the controversial 1995 memo to Bill Gates proposing that the company inexorably tie the Internet Explorer browser to Windows so that "running any other browser is a jolting experience." | |
| 
CyberSchnook$
C B D T P A Outlaw
Premium
join:2001-12-31
Terra Firma | Take 'em down! If ever, anywhere, anyone was just begging to be cracked to oblivion...
--
Scientific facts invented while-u-wait. | |
| 
Flagger
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Weimville
| I see it now. Yes there are advantages to not upgrading to the latest and greatest when it first comes out. Let all the suckers first on the block folks get burned while I sit back and wait to see the full ramifications of upgrading a program that I rarely use that works just fine for the WAY I USE IT when I do.
--
Why is it that we don't always recognize the moment when love begins, but we always know when it ends? - Steve Martin | |
| 
gej
join:2001-12-01
Takoma Park, MD
edited
| Everyone's A Comedian... Just looked at the author's defense for his actions. Does he have a big red nose and floppy shoes? Can't say I laughed harder in my life.
He has every legitimate right to generate income by bundling SaveNow. But there's no excuse for trying to bamboozle us with half-baked logic, or taking the lazy way out by sabotaging Ad-Aware. His take on anti-spyware is as pathetic as it is dumb.
I usually read the fine print before installing software, so this media viewer would've never seen action on my machine. With perpware like RadLight and Kazaa around, deciphering EULAs might be the next unwelcome chore for all of us.
I can't wait to see Lavasoft serve up some payback. Until then, let's hope RadLight's author takes his one-man comedy show out on the road...where the speeding eighteen-wheelers are.
[text was edited by author 2002-04-24 12:29:13] | |
| 
Mospaw
What time is it again?
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-08
Las Vegas, NV
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Embarq
Host:
Road Warriors, Not..
All things Macintosh
Automotive
Rants, Raves, & Pr..
edited
| Still no free lunch Many moons ago, software development was a painstaking, slow process. Ever since the Web appeared as a communications force, development times as well as innovations in software have increased exponentially in frequency.
Many consumers have been caught up in the hype and must have the latest greatest version of every piece of software out there. For "mainstream" software such as Microsoft Word or Adobe Photoshop, you have to pay for a license to use the software.
Many other titles are "freeware" or "shareware" or "bundleware" as I call it. Bundleware installs (either overtly or covertly) additional software that's typically designed to provide information to a third party. The software author usually gets paid for bundling this software.
Bundleware titles, as useful or useless as they may be, are not free. They might even pose as freeware, but there is some sort of revenue being generated through them, and the authors get paid.
I absolutely do not condone such tactics as deleting other software on a machine, no matter its intent. A piece of software (including the odious bundleware) should install itself quietly without disrupting other software. Period. Anything else is an abuse of the user's machine, whether or not it's in the EULA legaleese.
With that said, what do people expect? Software might be free, but it's not without its costs.
I actually enjoy paying for good software, simply because I know I'm supporting the developer's efforts, and newer versions might be even better than the one I have. Shareware is a great concept. Piracy issues aside, the market determines the program's worth. I'm not forced to have nefarious code installed on my machine and who knows what information either shared with the universe or ads popped up on my screen.
I avoid freeware like the plague. Having Kazaa or a Divx player on my machine might be just short of the Second Coming in importance, but I'll be damned if I'm going to risk my private information, my data, and installed software to have it. I'd much rather pay $20 or $30 for a piece of software that I know isn't going to pollute my system.
I'm not defending the actions of developers who make bundleware, but they do deserve payment for their efforts, as we all do. They've simply chosen a really poor method of getting paid. Perhaps letting the market determine what your software is worth is a better way to go. Who here wouldn't pay $5 or even $10, $20, or $30 for a really well written piece of software that you use daily, especially if doing so would eliminate these data leeches and the code wars.
Free software is great. I even have some installed on my machines. But if having certain "free" programs requires putting my stuff at risk, I'll wait for a commercial version comes out. The cost is too high otherwise.
It all boils down to this: watch what you install on your machine and read those user agreements. You tend to get what you pay for.
--
Couldn't you use a little Zaffix today?
--
[text was edited by author 2002-04-24 11:50:22] | |
| 
nanofever
Liberal Democrats, You Know We're Right
join:2001-08-19
Modesto, CA
|  That site will be DoS by Saturday!
Somebody made a big mistake messing with ad-aware and they are most certainly going to pay big. | |
| dale88
join:2001-01-26
Alexandria, VA
| Tool What a 'tard this guy is. Goes to show you that the international community thinks they can do whatever they want. Wonder what this guy would think if his website was brought down to a crawl by a DoS. Sorry Igor, I was just trying to "contact" you about an exciting offer I thought you would be interested in. | |
|
Brent24
@130.14.x.x
| Big Mistake I DO NOT condone or in any way agree with what this guy is doing BUT, you must realize, his software is free. Thus, if he tells you in BIG BOLD BLACK print that you cannot run a certain software on the same machine as his software or he will remove it, it is your conscious decision to install his software and give your permission for him to remove other software.
I really think this approach is a BIG MISTAKE and he will regret it later.
However, legally and ethically, unless your paying for it, you don't have a right to complain about the rules of the software.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it
Thanks for listening. | |
| | 
sydney078$
From Beneath You, It Devours
join:2001-06-10
Hurley, SD
| Re: Big Mistake said by Brent24:
I DO NOT condone or in any way agree with what this guy is doing BUT, you must realize, his software is free. Thus, if he tells you in BIG BOLD BLACK print that you cannot run a certain software on the same machine as his software or he will remove it, it is your conscious decision to install his software and give your permission for him to remove other software.
I really think this approach is a BIG MISTAKE and he will regret it later.
However, legally and ethically, unless your paying for it, you don't have a right to complain about the rules of the software.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it
Thanks for listening.
I dont even know what the hell RadLight is... anyway
Just because someone writes something in a contact or agreement doesnt necessarily make it law binding though- There have been tons of people taken to court of such things and the judges have found the agreements/contracts to be null in void as they are not written properly or have things written in them that are against the law to begin with. So- just because it is written in small print(or large) doesnt mean it is legal
--
It Must Be Tuesday | |
| | 
loster
join:1999-12-26
Chicago, IL
·Comcast Formerly ..
| So I install his piece of crap Divx player and it uninstalls Ad-Aware. Ok, so when I have my firewall blocks his third-party crap software access to the internet, is the next version going to uninstall that too?!! Is he going to write in his EULA that I'm not allowed to block it? Where does it end?
--
""There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." Ken Olson , President, Chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977 | |
| |
Rj
@aol.com | AdAware+ is not freeware. At least as far as I know. | |
| Lionsgraphic
Premium
join:2001-07-25
Portland, ME
| I LOVE THIS PART A friend managed to get a server in Germany. It was a hot connection
and the troubles were gone but the people downloaded RadLight more
and more. As we have reached the 10GB/day traffic the server has died...
And we had to decide : Either we will be regular Shareware or
we will bundle other software.
The first solution would lead to absolute popularity loss. Because the
people are VERY unlikely to pay if they don't really need to.
We decided to be FREE SHAREWARE.
this kid is just jungling with words
another example...
But take a closer look at the "SPYWARE" programs. e.g. SaveNow.
SaveNow HELPS people when bying over the internet. You want to buy
a pack (a few hundreds) of recordable CDs.... searching on the net..
AH, here...Oh, wait a moment, a popup window appears. When I click
on the popup-window I can buy a pack of my favourite CDs and save
up to 15% That's cool. I would even call it "HELPWARE". I'm happy.
I got my CDs, some people got some money and everyone is happy.
it's all silly to write with ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, and jungle with words like he does. anyway there's a lot of much better programs than Radlight, so guys let's just say it was NICE TRY  | |
| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS |  Crack
| |
| | Lionsgraphic
Premium
join:2001-07-25
Portland, ME | Re: Crack hehehe that would be cool open a company that makes lite versions of all programs with spyware LOLs | |
| | |
Dave E
@213.78.x.x
| Re: not illegal, but defintely arrogant and unethical I personally have no great objection to some spyware, as long as I know what it is doing! KaZaA insists on having Cydoor installed, I don't particularly like it, but I do have the choice, remove it and lose KaZaA, or keep it.
I will NOT be loading RadLight onto my computer, and from what I've seen, not many others will either, so who's losing? | |
| 
beeman65
join:2001-07-23
Mckeesport, PA
clubs:
| Aimed towards... People think they can get away with these types of actions knowing the average computer user will sucker into spam and most likely won't have Ad-aware on their computer. This is combated by more knowledgeable users searching for a better Divx player | |
| 
Pz_
join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs:
| Comfort in knowing Not that I ever questioned it, but I've often wondered about how effective Ad-Aware was. Did it really catch everything? After this clowns attempt to remove it himself, I am VERY comfortable with Ad-Aware. It must really kick ass if some spyware jerk has to erase it to get around it.
Go Ad-Aware, still free, still no ads and still doesn't install anything without your permission. It doesn't take a spin doctor to try and convince you that its a good piece of software either. Maybe we aren't as stupid as we look. | |
| ftzsee
Premium
join:2001-11-22
clubs: | Lol RadLight sucks anyway... | |
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