Bell Sympatico Clamping DownNew speeds, new limits ( old news - 10:22AM Friday May 10 2002) tags: dsl · prices It seems that Bell Canada is following the leader in regards to monitoring traffic and setting download caps. Bell will be switching to a tiered based pay system according to this article in the Globe and Mail, as well as instituting download limits sometime beginning in June. This new system will affect approximately 850,000 subscribers, a significant portion of broadband subscribers in Canada. The Globe and Mail originally received leaked information, but has confirmed the planned changes with a Sympatico representative, who stated that Sympatico calculates that 92 per cent of its subscribers use about 1.5 gigabytes of data per month, leaving a cushion of 3.5GB before users have to start paying extra. According to the representative "the personalized pricing model will ensure that customers have sufficient bandwidth to meet their on-line needs and allow Bell Sympatico, as Canada's leading ISP, to continue modernizing our network to address consumers' growing requirements for more speed and additional on-line services." There will be three new speed and price points, with a low speed/low cost package and "uber-user" solution being the new offerings. The highest of the newly proposed packages, dubbed "Sympatico High Speed Ultra", a 3 Mbps down and 640 Kbps up package, will cost $69.95 per month, and will have a download and upload cap of 10 gigabytes per month. The next lowest level of service will essentially be a redressed version of their standard service already offered, priced at $44.95 per month, with 5 GB downstream and 5 GB upstream caps set in place. The lowest "tier" will be dubbed "Sympatico DSL Basic", and will offer speeds of 128Kbps for $29.95 per month with a 1GB cap in place. Customers passing these caps on any of the three newly proposed service tiers will be charged $0.79 for every additional 100 MB of data either downloaded or uploaded. Caps may not be a big deal to the standard user who plans to simply check TV listings and e-mail their cousin in California, but to serious internet users they act as a significant damper to the freedom most users have grown accustomed to. Still, even experienced users may not be aware of just how much bandwidth they consume monthly and how close to these caps they will come. Bob Carrick, a mod in our Sympatico forum, has drafted a clear usage chart that shows how easily one can burn through that much data. User opinion of course isn't favorable toward some of the shifts, with one petition quickly filled with a list of almost four thousand names irritated by the transition. Most of the complaints center around the creation of the 5 gigabyte download cap placed on Sympatico's standard service, with many users believing 10 gigabytes to be a far more reasonable target. For those of you eye-balling Canadian DSL customers and thinking this doesn't affect you: take a good look at what will most likely be your broadband future. These are exactly the type of pricing plans that should be rolling into your town over the next several years. Related:- Verizon Again Tweaks DSL Bundles
- Consumer Reports: FiOS, U-Verse Best Triple Play
- Embarq Drops Fastest DSL Tier By $10
- Hey NY Times: Broadband Coverage Gaps Are Not 'Hooey'
- Verizon Reports Largest FiOS Additions To Date
- AT&T Raises Price For Cheapest Tier
- Verizon Expands 7Mbps DSL Availability
- AT&T Announces U-Verse Enhancements
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 |  |   Bender2000 Bite My Shiny Metal Ass Premium join:2002-05-06 Roxboro, QC clubs: | Re: Uh Oh! by the way...sympatico calculates a gigabyte as 1000mb...not 1024mb...just another thing that really ticks me off (they say this on their website btw) | |
|  |   timew
@iprimus.net
| Wow, it's funny reading such posts like this comparing American broadband to Australian broadband. Our current B.B. package only allows us 3GB @ $87.95 per month (roughly $45 U.S.). I worked out if we go over the 3GB we're charged at $130 AU compared to your $8 (equivalent to $16 AU). I wish Australia would follow your trends regardless how bad they seem to you at the moment. | |
|  |  |   sadowski I Am My Own Doppelganger Premium,MVM join:2000-04-14 Buffalo, NY clubs: | Re: Uh Oh! I guess it's all relative to what you are used to. I used to get 3 times the upstream for the same price.  | |
|  |  |  Riplin
join:2002-05-13 canada
·Bell Sympatico
| said by timew: Wow, it's funny reading such posts like this comparing American broadband to Australian broadband. Our current B.B. package only allows us 3GB @ $87.95 per month (roughly $45 U.S.). I worked out if we go over the 3GB we're charged at $130 AU compared to your $8 (equivalent to $16 AU). I wish Australia would follow your trends regardless how bad they seem to you at the moment.
Young man/woman, why in the world would you even sign up for a package like that? B.B. was not introduced so you can surf the web faster, it is for quick FTP. Either your ISP has a monopolistic hold on your area or there are enough of you still joined up to keep them happy. Get people to quit and when the money stops flowing into your ISP's bank account I bet they will either fold or change their tune fairly quickly. | |
|  |  dyehard
join:2002-05-12 Phoenixville, PA | ill just go back to dial up -- BOYCOTT THE RIAA | |
|  |   plynch6
join:2002-05-04 Manhasset, NY | Optimum online is by far the best cable service. I pay $40 a month and its worth every penny. 10 megabit dl/ 1 megabit ul with no caps. my internet explorer download goes at 1.25 MB per sec. now thats broadband | |
|  |  |   sadowski I Am My Own Doppelganger Premium,MVM join:2000-04-14 Buffalo, NY clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Uh Oh! said by plynch6: with no caps.
Yet. I have no data transfer limits at this time but once a trend begins everyone tends to adopt it. That's the scary part. -- In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken | |
|  |  |  |  |  dyehard
join:2002-05-12 Phoenixville, PA | first if they put caps on the will have to find away to stop those damn adds and popups -- BOYCOTT THE RIAA | |
|  |  |   sadowski I Am My Own Doppelganger Premium,MVM join:2000-04-14 Buffalo, NY clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: caps and banners + popups No way.
ISP: I'm sorry, Sir, we just provide connectivity. We are not responsible for content, pop-ups or otherwise, or how you use the service.
Customer: But you limit my usage with your bandwidth cap?
ISP: Sir, may I assist you in another area?
Customer: NO!
ISP: Sir, are you aware of our new long distance plans?
Customer hangs up. -- In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken | |
|  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: I dunno, I think... The 128 package is $29.95 with a one gig crap. That's pretty sad IMO....
But I suppose it exists as a broadband entry point for grandma... -- Palpatine for Senate | |
|  |  |   hurleyp
join:2000-06-20 Ottawa, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: I dunno, I think... said by Leviathan: But I suppose it exists as a broadband entry point for grandma...
Yes, I think grandma is exactly the market they're after with the "basic" package. Email and basic surfing with the occasional download of family snap-shots, without having the phone line tied up.
Paul | |
|  |   Bob Carrick Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2000-04-24 New York, NY
| I will actually be moving to that plan, if all my fighting of this works it will have a 20 gig cap and the 1 meg will have a ten gig cap. Forward on we press! Thanks for the support people. -- Bob --»www.carricksolutions.com - The largest PPPoE Help Website, including EnterNet, WinPoet, MacPoet, Access Manager, RASPPPoE, & Networking | |
|  |  |  |  |   Bender2000 Bite My Shiny Metal Ass Premium join:2002-05-06 Roxboro, QC clubs:
| Re: I dunno, I think... There is absolutely no point in taking US/Canadian conversions into account. You'd be comparing apples and oranges. Think about it....if you live in the states, and you are making a living in US money, (say you make 30k/yr USD), and you pay 45USD for your connection. Then you consider your canadian neighbor who is making a living in Canadian money (say he makes 30k/yr Canadian) and he is paying 45CDN for his connection, then you are both paying the same since your salaries and expenses are in the same unit of currency. There is no point in converting. If canadians had an income in USD then there'd be a point. but us canadians don't make money in USD! | |
|  |  |  |   biggknifeparty
join:2001-03-03 Winnipeg, MB
| comparing countries? I think the two are perfectly comparable. It's more of just that Canadians are used to a lower cost of living. Nearly everything (with the obvious exception of cigarettes and alcohol) is cheaper in Canada. Where I live, in Manitoba, water is next to free, energy is around 7.5cents (CDN... that's like 5 cents American) kW/hour (or however that's measured..erg it's late and I forget), food is cheap (except for imported fruits/vegetables) and internet is cheap! Comparatively the average Canadian household income IS inferior to that of the average American, but we have lower expenses so it balances out.
whoa this was just a mindless ramble... at first I thought I had a point to say but apparently I didn't... erg... oh well off to bed I go. g'night | |
|  |  |  smiley4me
join:2002-02-25 North York, ON
| Stats Given that 50% of the population uses the internet. That would affect about 1 out of 18 internet users, or 5.5% of the population. Given that there are 31,100,000 people in Canada. But if most of the subscribers were in ON with 12,440,000 people, it would be 1 in 7 or 13.6% of internet users.
Of cource the above stats are all made up from what a remember from other survays about internet usage  | |
|  soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01 Irving, TX | I know it's been said before... What the point of having a cap on broadband? These companies tout downloading mp3's and streaming video s a selling point. Like I've had customer tell me before, "It's the old bait and switch." | |
|  mwf
join:2000-11-26 Granite Quarry, NC
·Vonage
| Who pays for the spam and ads? How exactly are the ISP's going to justify charging people for unwanted content?
Think about it, have someone who you don't like, starting sending him e-mail attachments on the first and kill his cap by the 5th.
Tier within a tier would be better, step the bandwidth down as the usage goes up over the course of a month. But there is no way people are going to pay extra simply because some websites are loaded with pop-ups, pop-unders, flash movies, etc. | |
|   F10
@170.148.x.x
| They're mad "There will be three new speed and price points, with a low speed/low cost package and "uber-user" solution being the new offerings. The highest of the newly proposed packages, dubbed "Sympatico High Speed Ultra", a 3 Mbps down and 640 Kbps up package, will cost $69.95 per month, and will have a download and upload cap of 10 gigabytes per month."
I think it would be time to find a new provider if I were in their area.. Not only did they increase the price but put a measly 10 gig bandwidth cap on their TOP service. | |
|  Davros866
join:2001-07-23 Houston, TX
| What a load of crap! Those caps are ridiculously low! Were those prices Canadian or U.S. $? Because $70/month for only 10gb is terrible. I use about 3gb a DAY! Call me a hog if you want, but if you're only checking email or movie show times, you don't belong on broadband. My dl is not going to affect your pathetic AOL instant messenger crap.
As for the non-hog users, now YOU have to pay for every banner ad you see, and every spam email you get, and every popup that comes up from all the cancerous adware/sh1tware fighting it out for control of your soul.
IMHO, the trend over the past decade has been continual degradation of the internet and the pc world as more and more mainstream "users" get into it. Computing was nothing but pleasure in the late 1980's and early 1990's before it was all about making money. Now the same assholes who ruined television in the 20th century are doing the same to the internet.
I'm getting so sick of all of these issues. I never imagined even 3 years ago that the internet could suck this bad.
So, I'm off to read a book now. I don't have to pay per page, and I don't have to pay every time I open it, and it's not full of ads that pop out in my face. | |
|  |  |  |  |  Davros866
join:2001-07-23 Houston, TX | Re: What a load of crap! If you listen to internet radio for 4 hours a day, like I do, that adds up to 5gb per month! So you see these limits are ridiculously low.
If that happened here I would have to get a dial up account to be able to listen to my internet radio. | |
|  |  |  |   ArchAngel21x MacFan Pro Premium join:2001-10-28 Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska
| Re: What a load of crap! said by Davros866: If you listen to internet radio for 4 hours a day, like I do, that adds up to 5gb per month! So you see these limits are ridiculously low.
If that happened here I would have to get a dial up account to be able to listen to my internet radio.
I hear you, and that is what I have been saying all along. Even if internet radio survives CARP, they will lose listeners if download limits are put in place for all ISPs. I did that math and it's worse than you think. I like to listen to 128Kbit quality music. So if my math is right, and 128K means 128Kbit every second:
128Kbit every second 7680Kbit every minute 460800Kbit every hour 1843200Kbit every 4 hours 55296000Kbit for 4 hours in 30 days
Total 55 Gigbit!!! for 30 days of listening to 128K for 4 hours. Even at 64K it's around 27.5 Gigbit.
However looking over my numbers, if cable companies are saying 8 GigByte limits, then you are looking at 6.9 MegByte for 30 days of listening to 128K for 4 hours. Doesn't look as bad when you put it that way. I still don't like the idea of download limits.
-- "Ever since I got high speed internet access I have been trying to speed everything up. Tomorrow I will work on making the microwave cook food in half the time. Next week, rocket fuel for my car." [text was edited by author 2002-05-10 17:53:03] | |
|  |  |  |  dyehard
join:2002-05-12 Phoenixville, PA | isp are trying to kill the internet.Yes i would go back to dial up anyway i with verizon dsl -- BOYCOTT THE RIAA | |
|  |   hurleyp
join:2000-06-20 Ottawa, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| The prices quoted in the article are in Canadian dollars, so $70 Canadian is roughly $45 US. Of course, Canadians have to work longer for each take-home dollar because of the considerably higher taxes up here, so a simple conversion isn't really that meaningful.
Paul | |
|  |   enzi
@net.au | HAH! from back in australia, the land of the 3GB Tel$tra caps and the $1500 monthly bill (AUD, about half that in USD) for using 8GB, I long for 10... | |
|   kilingspam
join:2001-04-30 San Jose, CA
| Less value for the dollar.
Surfers will want to kill popup banners and flashy flash adds even more due to them eating up their bandwidth limits. I wonder when websites are going to cry fowl about surfers stopping their adds from being displayed. It will be like the entire tivo/others fight about copyright infringement by bypassing commercials etc. It seems some company man is alwaysing trying to seperate us further from our hard earned dollars. Be it the ones who sell your email address (or yahoo who is selling your email, home address, & phone number) or sell you broadband with the teird pricing. Seems funny how one company mans brainstorm to screw us out of dough has gone global for the ISP world. How much do they think we will take before we start saying "remeber the good old days of dialup". Isp's didn't legally have to keep 90 days worth of your emails and surfing habits and could be sued for damages for giving your info to The Man on a whim when you were doing no wrong. Run your own email server, encrypt, encrypt, encrypt! | |
|  lesopp
join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL
| Monopolies Suck!!!
This exactly why we need either competition in the same media and not monopolies, or in case of the necessary evil monopoly, regulation.
Mr FCC are you listening? Or does the acronym FCC mean "Forget Consumer Choice or F**k Consumer Choice"? | |
|  jsouth Jsouth
join:2000-12-12 Wichita, KS | Download limits
Is it a limit on your bandwith or DOWNLOAD limits? I don't think pop-up ads would go against it because you don't download them. | |
|  |   cybermud
join:2000-08-25 Chicago, IL | Re: Download limits Any web page that is displayed on your computer is 'downloaded' and would count against your cap. Likewise for email, instant messages, etc. | |
|   nekote
join:2000-12-16 Hopkinton, MA
| 92% use 1.5 GB/mo; $7.90 / GB /mo Interesting.
The article says 92% use 1.5 GB/mo. Avgerage of 50MB / day?
Suggested $7.90 (Canadian?) / GB / mo for "excess" bandwidth.
My info is 1 GB / mo goes for $1.75 USD. -- Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
|  |  smiley4me
join:2002-02-25 North York, ON
| Re: 92% use 1.5 GB/mo; $7.90 / GB /mo Ever wonder where they got the cap from? Well if I was an ISP I would take the $45/m CDN and match the bandwidth with the fixed costs and then tack on the vairable costs of bandwidth on top of that level. It's all about running a profitable business, who cares about the user. 
But, now that I pay for each MB that I use I want Bell to come out with a simple program to monitor bandwidth, remove ads, popups, flash content and other useless crap, and to give me a warning if I am close to my monthly limit. If they do that then they have earned my trust back. | |
|   nekote
join:2000-12-16 Hopkinton, MA
| Electronic submissions to FCC email to: ecfs@fcc.gov with text: get form youremail@yourisp.tld
Then, you get an explanatory response form.
ATT Comcast is Docket # is 02-70
Make sure to remember to send as plain ASCII text.
My example: (NEED TO replace [ with less than and ] with greater than) I don't know how to show the proper symbol in this forum - sorry. [PROCEEDING] 02-70 [DATE] 5/10/02 [NAME] My Name [ADDRESS1] 123 Main St [ADDRESS2] [CITY] Somewhere [STATE] ST [ZIP] 99999 [LAW-FIRM] [ATTORNEY] [DOCUMENT-TYPE] CO [PHONE-NUMBER] 123-456-7890 [DESCRIPTION] Email Comment [CONTACT-EMAIL] me@myisp.tld [TEXT]
Dear FCC:
Blah, blah, blah .... -- Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
|   IJustLuvMyDSL
@covad.net
| Don't you just LOVE the cable modem monopoly? This is why I love my DSL connection! I can just switch to one of at least 16 different ISPs without having to be disconnected for three months! No caps (at least not yet); no usage monitoring.
This article that I just read kind of says it well, although not perfectly. Sympatico and Time-Warner Cable management should read this to see what their customers are thinking.
»www.bityard.com/article.php?sid=238 | |
|  |   Mashiki Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04 Woodstock, ON | Re: Don't you just LOVE the cable modem monopoly? Your kind of messed up on that...
Sympatico is DSL. Plus other local providers.
Rogers, Shaw, ect are cable. | |
|   93254336 Weapons Of Masturbation Premium join:2001-10-20
| Can't happen here in the USA? Think again: If DSL service is a dedicated "always-on" internet connection, why do many DSL providers now require users to "log into" their DSL line?
Figured it out yet? Here's a hint: the infrastructure to bill DSL customers by time used or by amount of data transferred is already in-place; it merely requires some management imbecile to decide that the "all you can eat buffet" is closed.
- Dan | |
|  |  |  |  |   93254336 Weapons Of Masturbation Premium join:2001-10-20
| Re: Can't happen here in the USA? Well, depending on who's providing the service, a DSL connection may or may not have a static IP. In my particular case I have a dynamic IP address, but since my router keeps the connection alive, my IP address hasn't changed in months.
Regardless, my point is that "logging into" a dedicated line provides the foundation for billing for time used or data transferred. It's simply that DSL providers in the United States aren't billing based on usage... yet.
- Dan | |
|  garmst
join:2000-09-17 New York, NY
| Socialism works!!! I am so glad that socialist Canada has kept up with dirty capitalist America and did the right thing with instituting caps. God knows what those Canadian's would have done with it anyway. 
You think is was a collusive effort on the part of Amerika Capitalist Cable running dogs?
Oliver Stone: Where are you?
This message brough to you by: Partnership for a Broadband Capped North Amerika!! | |
|  |   dataiv
join:2002-02-25 Ottawa, ON
| Re: Socialism works!!! Socialists... pfft.
Capitalist = Me, and I live in Canada. [text was edited by author 2002-05-10 17:35:01] | |
|   regularrjoe
@168.143.x.x
| title "According to the representative 'the personalized pricing model will ensure that customers have sufficient bandwidth to meet their on-line needs and allow Bell Sympatico, as Canada's leading ISP, to continue modernizing our network to address consumers' growing requirements for more speed and additional on-line services.'"
I almost spit soup through my nose. "Modernizing" by limiting bandwidth. I'm sorry, how? It's the same as wanting your kids to grow up but not allowing them to go out too much. "Be back by 6", "Don't talk to strangers", "Walk in group of 10", etc.
If what they're saying is true, then I must say that Bell shouldn't be in this DSL business if they can't handle it.
Without making the big wigs in limos or Mercedes zooming around on DVP look like idiots by asking what the difference is between byte and bit, it's time Bell upgraded their network to REALLY "ensure that customers have sufficient bandwidth to meet their on-line needs" at $40 per month plus taxes with unlimited bandwidth, as advertised on TV. | |
|   jtwisted13
@sympatico.ca | this really blows..lol yup the caps really blow...time to go cable....lmao | |
|  |   AnotherSympaticoUser
@sympatico.ca
| Re: this really blows..lol Rogers (the cable internet provider here) is also planning to put in bandwidth caps this summer, apparently at the same 5 GB limit. Will they offer different speed packages? That remains to be seen. Any third-party DSL companies that may exist will likely end up putting in caps as well, since Bell will undoubtedly start charging them more for their data transfer. Bottom line is, we can't escape the caps here with such a limited market. | |
|   SHARPSHARK
join:2002-05-10
| Don't fit the GAMERS And the GAMERS ???
3MPBS wow, it's really great for the ping, but 10 gig is really too much.
I hope they will let me personalize my package.
Wow, it's my 1st post here and really amazed reading all these infos on DSL. Cool, the forum got my city and province only with my postal code. -- SHARPSHARK | |
|   Jitterbug6
join:2002-03-29 Harrison, MI
| I wonder...
I wonder if all the ISP's that are doing this are really doing it because they don't want the user that downloads MP3's, warez, and most of all movies. That way they don't get stuck in the middle of copyright court cases. Or it could be the old stand by...money of course. AOL had a $58 billion loss in the first quarter, and Wall Street is really not in love with AOL-Time Warner anymore. Look at WorldCom. They are going to shake down the true internet junkies for all they can. I better get a second job. -- Direcway SRS 4.0.1.28-A Win XP Pro host/ME clients satmex5 1070 proxy off AMD 2000+ 512ddr | |
|  |   Blizzard0
join:2000-06-27 Beverly Hills, CA
| Re: I wonder... I am currently seaking employment in fort knox to help me pay for my net usage for when the caps are applied to attbi.
And i don't even download crap. But still annoying none the less. Covad Here i come. | |
|   subconcept
@sympatico.ca
| good bye If a 1.5 or 5 gb or 10 gb cap comes into play in june im outta here. I will find a new isp. 10 gb is junk i have downloaded more then 3 or 4 gb in a day. Using ftp to transfer uncompressed rich media while video editing with fellow coworkers. Plus downloading mp3s, surfing, playing games online, it will get eaten up in a day.
LAME! | |
|  |   BlunteD
@cable.rogers | Re: good bye Im just gonna give up on my internet all together... rogers sucks, bell sucks and theres nothing else... its just not worth it anymore | |
|  |  |  RandomShot
join:2000-12-02 Hawkesbury, ON
| Re: good bye lol, 1gb of bandwidth per month for the small package, geez, dont listen to internet radio to often... This sucks, i will have to subscribe to the 69.99$ package, i play alot of games on the internet and 5gb/month just isnt enough for me. Bell is doing what they want with us and nobody can stop em. Im ready to bet that 50% of customers will call tech support the first month and ask, "Why is my bill so high?" | |
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