Second DRM Round Table July 17thPublic needs to raise their voices ( old news - 09:45AM Friday Jul 12 2002) tags: legal · Fileswapping · business On July 17th in Washington DC, a second roundtable discussion concerning digital content and rights management will be held to decide the future of technology you use. The meeting will be attended by people such as the MPAA's Jack Valenti, the RIAA's Mitch Glazier, Microsoft's Andrew Moss, and representatives for Disney, IBM, Intel, Vivendi Universal, EMI, and ContentGuard. Oddly missing of course is the consumer voice, though organizations such as NYLXS will be organizing a trip to help represent the public at this event. More information, and what you can do make your voice heard, can be found here. Related:- Swedish ISP Fights New Piracy Law
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|
 apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA
| Wonderful...the deck is stacked against consumers --The meeting will be attended by people such as the MPAA's Jack Valenti, the RIAA's Mitch Glazier, Microsoft's Andrew Moss, and representatives for Disney, IBM, Intel, Vivendi Universal, EMI, and ContentGuard.--
Just what we need, several crybabies pitching one. But maybe I'm jumping the gun..maybe these guys will see that they should embrace technology, not destroy it and/or control it for their benefit. (Hey, I can dream, can't I?) But the consumer's hope seems to be with hardware and software companies who aren't going to want to be forced to develop anti-duplication hardware and/or software. Even if they are developed, it won't take long for someone to make a software crack or a firmware hack, and I think these guys know that. Why waste their money on technology that'll eventually be defeated, just like copy protected cd's, whose technology cost millions, was defeated by a 99 cent Sharpie?
-Oddly missing of course is the consumer voice,--
Oh no, that's not odd. That's intended.
--though organizations such as NYLXS will be organizing a trip to help represent the public at this event.--
Thank you NYLXS, and others who will attend. I sincerely hope that your voice will be heard and considered. | |
|  |   phxmark What Country Are We Living In?
join:2000-12-27 Glendale, AZ
| Re: Wonderful...the deck is stacked against consumers
[Partial QUOTE=apollo80]-- Even if they are developed, it won't take long for someone to make a software crack or a firmware hack, and I think these guys know that.
They do know that and they will probably build the hardware/firmware into a custom ASIC, just like M$soft did on the XBOX. Everything will be signed and encrypted, otherwise the system will not run! | |
|  |  |  |  |   pupowski Premium join:2002-03-22 Vancouver, WA
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| said by apollo80: --The meeting will be attended by people such as the MPAA's Jack Valenti, the RIAA's Mitch Glazier, Microsoft's Andrew Moss, and representatives for Disney, IBM, Intel, Vivendi Universal, EMI, and ContentGuard.--
Add the Rigas family, Ken Lay, Bernie Ebbers, and OJ Simpson, and it could double as Dubya's corporate crime task force. | |
|  VA_Greywolf Premium join:2002-02-14 Manassas, VA
| Are we Ostriges, hiding our heads in the sand? Isn't it about time for us consumers to stop sitting on our lazy duffs with comments like:
"Even if they are developed, it won't take long for someone to make a software crack or a firmware hack,..."
If you want to kill a chicken it's a lot easier to 'catch' an egg than a full grown chicken. In other words, it's TIME for the consumer's voice to be heard before the MPAA/RIAA hatches new consumer restrictions, these people will NOT go away and they certainly are NOT worried about cracks! | |
|  |  apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA
| Re: Are we Ostriges, hiding our heads in the sand? ---Isn't it about time for us consumers to stop sitting on our lazy duffs with comments like:
"Even if they are developed, it won't take long for someone to make a software crack or a firmware hack,..."---
Ok, since you brought it up, what do YOU propose? And if I attend the meeting, am I not doing something about it?
--If you want to kill a chicken it's a lot easier to 'catch' an egg than a full grown chicken. In other words, it's TIME for the consumer's voice to be heard before the MPAA/RIAA hatches new consumer restrictions, these people will NOT go away and they certainly are NOT worried about cracks!---
Again, WHAT do you PROPOSE to do this? You state what must be done but not HOW it should be done. I can rant and rave about it like you are, but unless you actually DO something about it, it's just words.
As a comsumer, I don't buy CD's anymore.
When it comes to hacks and cracks, it's a never ending cycle.
Off topic here, but do you know what companies make radar detectors? The same companies that make the radar guns for the police. They have a cure for their own disease. If someone can solve a problem, it'll get solved. Cracking and hacking, at this point, is an unfortunate way some people are fighting back. | |
|   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Joke of a story... I know people don't like to read....but did anyone bother to scroll down this link:
»www.gothamcitywebmerchandise.com···are.html
and take a look at the "story" by Congressman Howard L. Berman, who by the way is supporting the bill discussed on our front page today?
quote: Just Desserts for Scofflaws By Congressman Howard L. Berman July 9, 2002, 4:00 AM PT
Songwriters are the creators of the music we know and love. They pour their hearts and souls into their songs, knowing that often the voices and instruments of others end up better known to the listener. They write because they love music. And some also dare to dream that their work will pay their bills.
A few particularly gifted, diligent--and more than a little lucky--ones achieve this dream. For those few, one of the ways they get paid for their work is through the "mechanical" statutory license, which requires that those who make a physical or electronic copy of a copyrighted musical composition pay the songwriter 8 cents.
Each illegal peer-to-peer (P2P) download of a song robs the songwriters of the 8 cents they are due under the mechanical license. That may not seem like much, but when you multiply 8 cents by the reported 1.1 billion downloads on one P2P system in one month, it calculates out to $88,000,000 dollars...a month. Divide even 1/10th of that money among the 5,000 members of the Songwriters Guild of America, and you begin to see that P2P piracy robs songwriters on a massive scale.
Of course, songwriters aren't the only folks that P2P piracy robs.
P2P piracy robs all the creators--the recording artists, the photographers, the film producers, the software developers, as well as the authors, journalists and needlepoint artists--whose copyrighted works are increasingly downloaded over P2P systems without their authorization or compensation. P2P piracy robs all the businesses that invest in creation of copyrighted works and the carpenters, sound engineers, administrative assistants, programmers, seamstresses, copy editors and session musicians they employ. Lastly, P2P piracy robs the down loaders themselves and their fellow consumers, who will see the quality and diversity of future creations decrease as piracy increases. In short, P2P piracy has a myriad of victims.
There is no excuse or justification for P2P piracy. Of course consumers would like free music at the click of a mouse. They would also like gasoline for less than $1 dollar a gallon. But we don't confiscate people's property and pass it out because people want it for free.
Each illegal peer-to-peer download of a song robs the songwriters of the 8 cents they are due under the mechanical license. P2P piracy is clearly illegal. It is not simply copyright infringement, it is infringement on a massive, breathtaking scale. There is simply no concept of fair use that encompasses the distribution of countless copies of a copyrighted work to millions of people.
P2P piracy does not promote legitimate sales, it replaces them. How do I know? I have some common sense, a grasp of fundamental economics, and a college-age daughter with lots of friends. Frankly, it is galling that creators must even respond to such laughable sophistry.
Creators must have the choice about how to promote their work. This is not the right of an infringe. If there is promotional value in P2P distribution, creators have every incentive to use it--but they also have the right to refuse to use it.
Something must be done about P2P piracy, but what? I don't place much faith in those who, wishing to profit from it, say nothing can be done. There are solutions, and Congress has a constitutional obligation to create or facilitate them.
Part of the solution involves freeing copyright owners to use technology to combat this piracy. There is nothing revolutionary about property owners using self-help--technological or otherwise--to secure or repossess their property. Satellite companies periodically use electronic countermeasures to stop the theft of their signals and programming. Car dealers repossess cars when the payments go unpaid. Software companies employ a variety of technologies to make software nonfunctional if license terms are violated. Our society normally views such actions as just desserts for scofflaws rather than warfare on consumers.
Currently, copyright owners are unable to use some useful technological tools to deal with P2P piracy because they face potential, if unintended, liability under a variety of state and federal laws.
Something must be done about P2P piracy, but what? I don't place much faith in those who, wishing to profit from it, say nothing can be done. I plan to introduce legislation that would give copyright owners a limited "safe harbor" from such potential liability. Under my bill, copyright owners would be freed to use technology to impair P2P piracy, but only on networks that are decentralized, and thus not readily subject to suit for copyright infringement.
Copyright owners could technologically impair the distribution of copyrighted works, but could not actually hack into a P2P user's computer or otherwise remove files therein. If copyright owners abuse the authority provided in the bill, an aggrieved P2P user would have remedies for such abusive behavior.
I expect that such legislation, if appropriately limited, will gather substantial support in the Congress. The only folks I expect to defend P2P piracy are those who profit from it.
Does that sound like the voice of an unbiased legislator to you? -- Palpatine for Senate | |
|  |   ravital Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter Premium join:2001-07-19 Merrimack, NH
| Re: Joke of a story... Dear Lord,
I'll worry about criminals. I'll deal with muggers, thieves, robbers, murderers, terrorists, CEOs, CFOs, UFOs, auditors, stock-bond-junk market analysts, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, fires, and the sort and the like, but please dear Lord, please save me, save us all from "solutions... created and facilitated" by Congress. | |
|  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
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| said by Leviathan: Does that sound like the voice of an unbiased legislator to you?
It certainly sounds like the voice of the uninformed, so, I would say it is the voice of a biased legislator, yes.
Just think how much money all the artists would have if there was zero P2P copying. Billions.
YEAH, RIGHT. Nice assumptions there bud...
I love the assumption that every Mp3 = a lost sale. That is so classic. Don't they realize that many people download MP3's simply because they are available for free?
I buy very little music, just stuff I really like. I did this before Mp3's came along, and am the same way now.
I have to admit I've downloaded a couple of hundred MP3's.
However-- Let's say tommorrow I wiped out every single MP3, and all P2P was gone, and there was no way to get any MP3's anywhere.
Would I rush to the local store and start buying hundreds of CD's? No. It wouldn't affect my spending habits one cent, it wouldn't effect my music listening habits, nor my daily life, not ONE bit. So I love being told how much money I've "robbed" them out of. 8%, 20%, 50%, or 100% of zero STILL IS ZERO. They have lost *nothing.*
Rant off. | |
|  russotto
join:2000-10-05 Collegeville, PA | Politics of exclusion NYLXS isn't going there to be heard. They are going there to be excluded, as a futile protest rather than anything else. | |
|  |  apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA | Re: Politics of exclusion I don't know the details on that, but it wouldn't surprise me. | |
|  |  PenguinHappy
join:2002-06-23
| NYLXS and NY for Fair Use! and membership of other groups are organizing to go to Washington DC to be heard. We were heard the last time we went there. We obtained access to Congressmen. We have sat with legislators to proactively fight for our fair use rights.
We are currently working very hard to get one of our members on the panel of speakers. There are a few speakers representing the public interest that are not listed at the referenced web site. I believe EFF may get a panel spot, and a couple of others. But the panel is horribly stacked against us. PLEASE CONTACT THE COMMERCE COMMITTEE through the links/addresses provided in the article and send them an email demanding that you, the public, are the stakeholders in this matter, and you demand that they include NYLXS's spokesperson, Ruben Safir as part of the panel. He has represented NYLXS and fair use rights well in NYC, in Washington DC, and is currently representing fair use rights and free software in France. WE NEED TO GET HIM ON THIS PANEL. YOU CAN HELP ACCOMPLISH THIS, AND HELP DEFEND BROADBAND, AND YOUR RIGHT TO USE YOUR PROPERTY THE WAY YOU WANT TO BY SIMPLY SENDING AN EMAIL TO THE COMMERCE COMMITTEE. PLEASE DON'T SIT BACK AND WATCH WHILE YOUR RIGHTS ARE TAKEN AWAY LIKE SOME WERE WITH DMCA.
Here's the contact info at the commerce committee, but please read the story for background first:
In preparation for this workshop, the Technology Administration invites public comment on our website at: »www.ta.doc.gov/comments/comments.htm.
Contacts: Cheryl Mendonsa, Technology Administration Telephone: 202 482-8321 Email: cheryl.mendonsa@ta.doc.gov, or
Marjorie Weisskohl, Technology Administration Telephone: 202 482-0149 Email: Mweisskohl@ta.doc.gov
Check the web page at the bottom for some notable quotablesby Mr. Jack Valenti, spokesman of MPAA. [text was edited by author 2002-07-12 18:05:15] | |
|   Hooba
@co.us
| Fighting Back Hacking is no way to solve the problem of getting something for free. I know most regular posters on dslreports make $40,000 - $80,000 a year yet they cry about paying a buck or two for a song they like.
If you want good music then start supporting bands that have their own websites and where you can download or buy a cd direct from them. If people keep stealing music then record companies will start to introduce hardware blocks which will completely ruin multimedia for most people on the net. | |
|   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
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| In $$$$ I Trust.....
So, guess who gets to decide our future and how we can use technology.... the MPAA's Jack Valenti, the RIAA's Mitch Glazier, Microsoft's Andrew Moss, and representatives for Disney, IBM, Intel, Vivendi Universal, EMI, and ContentGuard.
Yes, these are my representatives I would choose to best look out for our interests!
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These are the people I wouldn't want alone in the same room as my wallet!
Man, we are so screwed here. | |
|  PenguinHappy
join:2002-06-23
| Ohhh, the humanity!
Well, well, well. It seems that I get the true picture of dslreports readership. All talk, and no action. Or a little talk, and no action. This site is listed on linuxfreaks, Newsforge, Tech-Report, and others. And all we get is the above posts, and so few at that.
You like broadband? That's why you're here, isn't it? If Jack Valenti and the rest of the entertainment cartel get there way, kiss your broadband goodbye. You will be living in a world controlled by MS, Jack Valenti and crew, Sony, and other big media. They will turn your computer into a digital cash register, and laugh all the way to the bank.
You have been presented with what you can do to help. One reason the NRA is so effective is not because it has over 6 million members, but because those members vote, they track legislaters voting records, they protest loudly on bills that will harm their position, and legislators know this. At least a half dozen pundits, some Senators, and some Congressmen credited the NRA with Al Gore's loss in his home state of Tennessee, and losses in other states where he was expected to win. Why? Because the NRA focused on particular issues, and put to rest the rhetoric of the unions. Union households that were also NRA members voted for Bush, not Gore. Read that last sentence again.
You don't want to lose what you have now? You want better broadband? More choices on digital content, not tightly controlled content that has multiple cash registers on the information superhighway? Now is your chance to be heard. Yes, there are other bills around the corner. Yes, you will have to send out more emails next time. But your response is important NOW!
The NRA membership has found that it only takes 20-30 people in legislator offices, some numbers more in emails, calls and faxes, to turn opinion in their favor. What do legislators fear most? Losing the gravy train. What are we having this November? An election. All Congressmen are up for re-election this year. Every one of them. What happens if they start getting a couple hundred emails and phone calls from people concerned that they will lose their computer as it is known today, and turn it into a high-tech television set owned and controlled by MS, Jack Valenti, and Sony?
If they know that you know their position on the issue, and they know that is the one issue that will decide who you vote for, that gives them a powerful incentive to get your vote, then appease the entertainment cartel in an off year, like Senator Hollings sssca/dbtdjlkomno bill. And we have bought another year to work on these issues. And we have slowed the juggernaut somewhat.
Look at what is happening outside the US. Microsoft is dead. They may have 150% of the worldwide software market now, but it is over. Forget about Mexico trying and failing at Linux. It's noise. The regular press hasn't touched on the undercurrent of Linux use and learning. Anti-US sentiment, along with anti-MS sentiment, and shortage of funds is spreading Linux widely in other countries. They are educating their students with Linux. The US is educating its students with point and click gee-whiz software. Students are not learning the fundamental internals of computers in the US. And now MS and the entertainment industry want to stop fundamental computer programming and use in its tracks. They want to kill it and replace it with their view of what you should have.
And you are just sitting there twiddling your thumbs. Or rebooting another BSOD. Do you really care? You do? Have you emailed and called the contacts above? Have you called Chris Israel? Have you called/emailed/faxed your local Congressman? Have you told them that the public is not fairly represented on this panel? That they need to add other panel speakers representing you, the public? That this is a single issue for you? That you will vote in November according to how your legislator treats fair use and open source software?
From the tone of the posts that I'm reading on this subject, it doesn't look like anyone has done anything.
How about if you do email/call/fax the above contacts and your local Congressman, you post what you did here when you are finished.
Please stand up and be counted. You are at this site for a reason. Go to the above post, and use the contacts provided. Stand up and be counted! [text was edited by author 2002-07-15 22:45:00] | |
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